• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:48
CEST 10:48
KST 17:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon98Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?179Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week #92
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ a Announcement on the JEDI Ringing ASL22 General Discussion Syncronization issues and can't find games [ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group D [ASL22] Ro16 Group C KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Post Your Watch!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5919 users

Super Tournament 1 qualifiers conclude, begins April 18 -…

Forum Index > SC2 General
143 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France13018 Posts
April 09 2019 08:38 GMT
#41
On April 09 2019 17:35 Geo.Rion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2019 17:07 deacon.frost wrote:
On April 09 2019 16:49 Harris1st wrote:
In GSL, everytime Maru gets to Ghosts, Protoss is dead. So much so that I almost considered making a statement with increasing the range of Feedback.

Now I haven't seen any of these qualifier games, but there surely have to be some macro games among them. It seems like, other Terrans underestimate the game changing capabilities ONE EMP can have

IMO it's more about that Raven and turning off high impact units like Colossus/Immortal.

To the balance discussion - IEM - 1 terran in RO12, 0T in RO8, GSL ST - 2 Terrans in RO16.

No offense to anyone, but if you think that this is fine because Maru is doing fine in GSL and because of WESG where both Terrans had only 2 realistic opponents(Dark, Serral), then I don't know what to tell ya. Oh, now I know. If you gonna use WESG, I'm gonna use WCS in how bad shape Terran is! Oooh, genious!

The last time we saw such numbers it was during the blink era and it was very easy to spot(maps, balance, MSC vision), now it appears as more of a design issue and I am very interested on how this gonna be solved by Blizzard(if ...)


I see, Terrans winning tournaments or placing top 3 doesnt matter, because there are other tournaments that they dont win or place top 3. Your logic is flawless.

The efficiency of terran whiners is just next level, there's a qualifiers which most people couldnt even watch, terrans end up having just 2 spots, and suddenly it's the end of the world. For all we know Terran will win the supertournament after this.

I'm indifferent in regards to TvP, it's a bad mu, i dont watch it a lot, so by all means, shake it up. I just enjoy the terran tears too much.

Compared to our results we are the less whiny race I'd say
WriterMaru
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-09 08:44:45
April 09 2019 08:41 GMT
#42
On April 09 2019 17:35 Drake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2019 06:32 Anc13nt wrote:
Feels like it's becoming more and more clear that terran is underpowered tbh. Just because Maru is doing well doesn't mean terran is doing fine, especially since Maru seems to thrive whenever terran is weak.


not really
innovation just won a big tournament and now had bad luck while aslo kicking out other terrans before ...

there were nothing that made terran worse between the last terran tournament win vs SERRAL and now

WESG had these good players:
Scarlett, Dark, Maru, Neeb, Serral, Innovation. Out of these 6 players only 4 players(at that time) could be considered top - Neeb, Maru, Serral & Dark(considering Neeb's PvT/PvZ as there was no serious Protoss contender). Innovation surprised everyone with his TvT(Maru included ) and won it. But seriously, out of these 6 players if none Terran is in the finals it would be weird. I believe that if Maru and Inno were on different sides of the bracket we would have had TvT finals.

But OK, you're using WESG as an example.

Look at WCS and how underrepresented Terrans are and how bad results they have! Out of all the 4 WCS finals NONE of them had any Terran! (Raynor, Has, Mana, Showtime IIRC). How can you tell it's fine! And usually it's only 1 or 2 Terrans in RO8!!! If that's not a clear sign of issues then I don't know what!
(similar issue of using flawed group to make statistics, IEM and GSL ST is more representative as it has bigger scale of both good Terrans and not good Terrans)

Edit> Just realized Blizzcon has WCS in the name too. 5 finals and NO TERRAN!@#! Hurr durr. If you include recent gauntlets(or w/e it was named) it gets even worse. Tell me, where have all the Terrans gone?
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
April 09 2019 08:45 GMT
#43
On April 09 2019 17:38 Poopi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2019 17:35 Geo.Rion wrote:
On April 09 2019 17:07 deacon.frost wrote:
On April 09 2019 16:49 Harris1st wrote:
In GSL, everytime Maru gets to Ghosts, Protoss is dead. So much so that I almost considered making a statement with increasing the range of Feedback.

Now I haven't seen any of these qualifier games, but there surely have to be some macro games among them. It seems like, other Terrans underestimate the game changing capabilities ONE EMP can have

IMO it's more about that Raven and turning off high impact units like Colossus/Immortal.

To the balance discussion - IEM - 1 terran in RO12, 0T in RO8, GSL ST - 2 Terrans in RO16.

No offense to anyone, but if you think that this is fine because Maru is doing fine in GSL and because of WESG where both Terrans had only 2 realistic opponents(Dark, Serral), then I don't know what to tell ya. Oh, now I know. If you gonna use WESG, I'm gonna use WCS in how bad shape Terran is! Oooh, genious!

The last time we saw such numbers it was during the blink era and it was very easy to spot(maps, balance, MSC vision), now it appears as more of a design issue and I am very interested on how this gonna be solved by Blizzard(if ...)


I see, Terrans winning tournaments or placing top 3 doesnt matter, because there are other tournaments that they dont win or place top 3. Your logic is flawless.

The efficiency of terran whiners is just next level, there's a qualifiers which most people couldnt even watch, terrans end up having just 2 spots, and suddenly it's the end of the world. For all we know Terran will win the supertournament after this.

I'm indifferent in regards to TvP, it's a bad mu, i dont watch it a lot, so by all means, shake it up. I just enjoy the terran tears too much.

Compared to our results we are the less whiny race I'd say

You would say that, of course. Yet it wouldnt make it any more true.
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-09 09:00:22
April 09 2019 08:55 GMT
#44
On April 09 2019 17:41 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2019 17:35 Drake wrote:
On April 09 2019 06:32 Anc13nt wrote:
Feels like it's becoming more and more clear that terran is underpowered tbh. Just because Maru is doing well doesn't mean terran is doing fine, especially since Maru seems to thrive whenever terran is weak.


not really
innovation just won a big tournament and now had bad luck while aslo kicking out other terrans before ...

there were nothing that made terran worse between the last terran tournament win vs SERRAL and now

WESG had these good players:
Scarlett, Dark, Maru, Neeb, Serral, Innovation. Out of these 6 players only 4 players(at that time) could be considered top - Neeb, Maru, Serral & Dark(considering Neeb's PvT/PvZ as there was no serious Protoss contender). Innovation surprised everyone with his TvT(Maru included ) and won it. But seriously, out of these 6 players if none Terran is in the finals it would be weird. I believe that if Maru and Inno were on different sides of the bracket we would have had TvT finals.

But OK, you're using WESG as an example.

Look at WCS and how underrepresented Terrans are and how bad results they have! Out of all the 4 WCS finals NONE of them had any Terran! (Raynor, Has, Mana, Showtime IIRC). How can you tell it's fine! And usually it's only 1 or 2 Terrans in RO8!!! If that's not a clear sign of issues then I don't know what!
(similar issue of using flawed group to make statistics, IEM and GSL ST is more representative as it has bigger scale of both good Terrans and not good Terrans)

Edit> Just realized Blizzcon has WCS in the name too. 5 finals and NO TERRAN!@#! Hurr durr. If you include recent gauntlets(or w/e it was named) it gets even worse. Tell me, where have all the Terrans gone?

Funny when it comes to player's strength like, say, Serral, winning WCS doesnt mean jackshit for you and all the other terran fans, but when it comes to balance, it trumps GSL in an instant.

+ Show Spoiler +
Btw, if we're at WCS, both EU and NA had terran 3rd place, which compared to the relative strength of the players would be considered an over-performance.


But ok, Terran hasnt been in a WCS finals for ages. Fair enough. Coincidently Zerg hasnt been in a GSL finals for i dont know, like 6-7 seasons in a row. + Show Spoiler +
Edit: looked it up, it was june 2017 last time zerg got into a final (soo 2nd palce)

Please throw a tantrum about that, if you're just concerned with balance and trends. Oh, no, that's fine, that s explainable and natural, and it's Maru, and it s the format and it s all the other things.
That's fine.
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
gingerfluffmuff
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria4570 Posts
April 09 2019 08:58 GMT
#45
TY and Inno, wth you guys are doing?
・゚✧:・゚+..。✧・゚:・..。 ✧・゚ :・゚ ゜・:・ ✧・゚:・゚:.。 ✧・゚ SPARKULING *・゜・:・゚✧:・゚✧。゚+..。 ✧・゚: ✧・゚:・゜・:・゚✧::・・:・゚・゚
Agh
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1104 Posts
April 09 2019 09:01 GMT
#46
If a race is clearly better or broken then play it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Otherwise, shut up and git gud.
I may appear to be an emotionless sarcastic pos, but just like an onion when you pull off more and more layers you find the exact same thing everytime and you start crying
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-09 09:07:23
April 09 2019 09:01 GMT
#47
On April 09 2019 17:55 Geo.Rion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2019 17:41 deacon.frost wrote:
On April 09 2019 17:35 Drake wrote:
On April 09 2019 06:32 Anc13nt wrote:
Feels like it's becoming more and more clear that terran is underpowered tbh. Just because Maru is doing well doesn't mean terran is doing fine, especially since Maru seems to thrive whenever terran is weak.


not really
innovation just won a big tournament and now had bad luck while aslo kicking out other terrans before ...

there were nothing that made terran worse between the last terran tournament win vs SERRAL and now

WESG had these good players:
Scarlett, Dark, Maru, Neeb, Serral, Innovation. Out of these 6 players only 4 players(at that time) could be considered top - Neeb, Maru, Serral & Dark(considering Neeb's PvT/PvZ as there was no serious Protoss contender). Innovation surprised everyone with his TvT(Maru included ) and won it. But seriously, out of these 6 players if none Terran is in the finals it would be weird. I believe that if Maru and Inno were on different sides of the bracket we would have had TvT finals.

But OK, you're using WESG as an example.

Look at WCS and how underrepresented Terrans are and how bad results they have! Out of all the 4 WCS finals NONE of them had any Terran! (Raynor, Has, Mana, Showtime IIRC). How can you tell it's fine! And usually it's only 1 or 2 Terrans in RO8!!! If that's not a clear sign of issues then I don't know what!
(similar issue of using flawed group to make statistics, IEM and GSL ST is more representative as it has bigger scale of both good Terrans and not good Terrans)

Edit> Just realized Blizzcon has WCS in the name too. 5 finals and NO TERRAN!@#! Hurr durr. If you include recent gauntlets(or w/e it was named) it gets even worse. Tell me, where have all the Terrans gone?

Funny when it comes to player's strength like, say, Serral, winning WCS doesnt mean jackshit for you and all the other terran fans, but when it comes to balance, it trumps GSL in an instant.

+ Show Spoiler +
Btw, if we're at WCS, both EU and NA had terran 3rd place, which compared to the relative strength of the players would be considered an over-performance.


But ok, Terran hasnt been in a WCS finals for ages. Fair enough. Coincidently Zerg hasnt been in a GSL finals for i dont know, like 6-7 seasons in a row.
Please throw a tantrum about that, if you're just concerned with balance and trends. Oh, no, that's fine, that s explainable and natural, and it's Maru, and it s the format and it s all the other things.
That's fine.

Uhm, not enough smileys I guess.

Don't get me into "Serral doesn't mean jackshit", I said multiple times he's top4 and probably best zerg during his 2018.

All I wanted was to show that you cannot use WESG as it's simply bad example. Also multiple times in history I used "you cannot use finals as a representation", if you want to use it and nit pick, then you're in a lot of troubles as across all the LotV finals the Terran is the most underrepresented race, the more deep in LotV we are the worse it is.
(and if you remove statistical weirdos like Maru & Serral you're in serious deep shit as Maru has huge representation in Terran finals while we can safely ignore Serral)

Edit> And it's certainly just a coincidence that the Terrans are most representative in finals of the only preparational tournaments we have(and had)
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany7402 Posts
April 09 2019 09:27 GMT
#48
This is gonna be hell of a task. Blizzard would need to somehow make Terran easier to play. If they do a flatout buff, Maru will be unstoppable.
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12133 Posts
April 09 2019 09:29 GMT
#49
On April 09 2019 18:27 Harris1st wrote:
This is gonna be hell of a task. Blizzard would need to somehow make Terran easier to play. If they do a flatout buff, Maru will be unstoppable.

That's the issue, I see this as a design flaw that was made significant with LotV changes. And how they gonna fix this with the usual buffs/nerfs, oh boy. I'm not envy them the task.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
the caz dog
Profile Joined April 2014
Australia17 Posts
April 09 2019 09:51 GMT
#50
To the balance discussion - IEM - 1 terran in RO12, 0T in RO8, GSL ST - 2 Terrans in RO16.

No offense to anyone, but if you think that this is fine because Maru is doing fine in GSL and because of WESG where both Terrans had only 2 realistic opponents(Dark, Serral), then I don't know what to tell ya. Oh, now I know. If you gonna use WESG, I'm gonna use WCS in how bad shape Terran is! Oooh, genious!

The last time we saw such numbers it was during the blink era and it was very easy to spot(maps, balance, MSC vision), now it appears as more of a design issue and I am very interested on how this gonna be solved by Blizzard(if ...)



I think balance discussions should focus on GSL. It's the highest level of play, in the most rigorous competition, without jet
lagged players. And in GSL Terrans are doing just fine.

IEM was some crappy play from Terrans (Maru for one, Innovation for another). I really don't care about WCS EU or AM. The curious thing is that Terrans seem to always do poorly in Super Tournament for some reason. WESG is another meh tournament too - not a single top Korean Protoss.

And no, this is nothing like the Blink Era. Three Terrans made it into GSL RO32 when that was going on...vs nine in this season. No need for the hyperbole.

Why is it up to Blizzard to 'solve' this perceived imbalance? What happened to Terrans actually trying to change what they do? Terrans are the first use the words 'broken' or 'unplayable' to describe a matchup all too readily.

Maybe it's a lack of community leadership - if Nathanias and Demuslim are your least whiny streamers, maybe you're in trouble. I'm not seeing the innovative and creative leadership that we are lucky to have in some parts of the Protoss community (at least comparatively). The whining just creates a loop of learned helplessness that keeps you from innovating.
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-09 10:04:12
April 09 2019 10:02 GMT
#51
On April 09 2019 18:51 the caz dog wrote:
Show nested quote +
To the balance discussion - IEM - 1 terran in RO12, 0T in RO8, GSL ST - 2 Terrans in RO16.

No offense to anyone, but if you think that this is fine because Maru is doing fine in GSL and because of WESG where both Terrans had only 2 realistic opponents(Dark, Serral), then I don't know what to tell ya. Oh, now I know. If you gonna use WESG, I'm gonna use WCS in how bad shape Terran is! Oooh, genious!

The last time we saw such numbers it was during the blink era and it was very easy to spot(maps, balance, MSC vision), now it appears as more of a design issue and I am very interested on how this gonna be solved by Blizzard(if ...)



I think balance discussions should focus on GSL. It's the highest level of play, in the most rigorous competition, without jet
lagged players. And in GSL Terrans are doing just fine.

IEM was some crappy play from Terrans (Maru for one, Innovation for another). I really don't care about WCS EU or AM. The curious thing is that Terrans seem to always do poorly in Super Tournament for some reason. WESG is another meh tournament too - not a single top Korean Protoss.

And no, this is nothing like the Blink Era. Three Terrans made it into GSL RO32 when that was going on...vs nine in this season. No need for the hyperbole.

Why is it up to Blizzard to 'solve' this perceived imbalance? What happened to Terrans actually trying to change what they do? Terrans are the first use the words 'broken' or 'unplayable' to describe a matchup all too readily.

Maybe it's a lack of community leadership - if Nathanias and Demuslim are your least whiny streamers, maybe you're in trouble. I'm not seeing the innovative and creative leadership that we are lucky to have in some parts of the Protoss community (at least comparatively). The whining just creates a loop of learned helplessness that keeps you from innovating.

Out of 3 tournaments with the highest skill available we have 2 without proper Terran representation and you say everything is fine because of Code S.

FIne. Then let's change every tournament to Code S format so it's fine everywhere, how about that?

Edit> I'm not a Terran player myself, I play ZErg/Protoss

Edit 2> Blaming Nate and Demuslims is low blow, I am surprised you didn;t take Avilo out of the hat.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
royalroadweed
Profile Joined April 2013
United States8301 Posts
April 09 2019 10:22 GMT
#52
On April 09 2019 17:35 Geo.Rion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2019 17:07 deacon.frost wrote:
On April 09 2019 16:49 Harris1st wrote:
In GSL, everytime Maru gets to Ghosts, Protoss is dead. So much so that I almost considered making a statement with increasing the range of Feedback.

Now I haven't seen any of these qualifier games, but there surely have to be some macro games among them. It seems like, other Terrans underestimate the game changing capabilities ONE EMP can have

IMO it's more about that Raven and turning off high impact units like Colossus/Immortal.

To the balance discussion - IEM - 1 terran in RO12, 0T in RO8, GSL ST - 2 Terrans in RO16.

No offense to anyone, but if you think that this is fine because Maru is doing fine in GSL and because of WESG where both Terrans had only 2 realistic opponents(Dark, Serral), then I don't know what to tell ya. Oh, now I know. If you gonna use WESG, I'm gonna use WCS in how bad shape Terran is! Oooh, genious!

The last time we saw such numbers it was during the blink era and it was very easy to spot(maps, balance, MSC vision), now it appears as more of a design issue and I am very interested on how this gonna be solved by Blizzard(if ...)


I see, Terrans winning tournaments or placing top 3 doesnt matter, because there are other tournaments that they dont win or place top 3. Your logic is flawless.

The efficiency of terran whiners is just next level, there's a qualifiers which most people couldnt even watch, terrans end up having just 2 spots, and suddenly it's the end of the world. For all we know Terran will win the supertournament after this.

I'm indifferent in regards to TvP, it's a bad mu, i dont watch it a lot, so by all means, shake it up. I just enjoy the terran tears too much.

Terran not terrans. As in Maru. Because Inno winning at WESG last month was the only premier tournament won by a terran not named Maru since August of 2017.
"Nerfing Toss can just make them stronger"
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France13018 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-09 10:50:10
April 09 2019 10:43 GMT
#53
On April 09 2019 18:01 Agh wrote:
If a race is clearly better or broken then play it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Otherwise, shut up and git gud.

That would be quite stupid since there are regular patches and stuff that might change the balance, so the time you waste learning properly another race can mean this race is now the UP one.
I don't imagine how depressing it is to be INno or TY and lose to the like of 2019 PartinG or Hurricane though

On April 09 2019 18:51 the caz dog wrote:
Show nested quote +
To the balance discussion - IEM - 1 terran in RO12, 0T in RO8, GSL ST - 2 Terrans in RO16.

No offense to anyone, but if you think that this is fine because Maru is doing fine in GSL and because of WESG where both Terrans had only 2 realistic opponents(Dark, Serral), then I don't know what to tell ya. Oh, now I know. If you gonna use WESG, I'm gonna use WCS in how bad shape Terran is! Oooh, genious!

The last time we saw such numbers it was during the blink era and it was very easy to spot(maps, balance, MSC vision), now it appears as more of a design issue and I am very interested on how this gonna be solved by Blizzard(if ...)


And no, this is nothing like the Blink Era. Three Terrans made it into GSL RO32 when that was going on...vs nine in this season. No need for the hyperbole.

You realize that back then there were a lot of players, so getting to code S ro32 was difficult, whereas right now there are barely enough good koreans left to make 32 players, so basically every player qualifies for this GSL no matter his race. Right?

So using GSL ro32 representation to say: "hey it's fine guys!! look, 9 terrans in code S ro32z" is naive at best.

It's better to use GSL + IEM + WESG + GSL ST + WCS (qualifiers included) if we want to have a realistic idea of what the balance / design looks like.

It seems to be more design problems rather than balance (because balance issues can be hacked with maps and stuff) but contrary to the past, it is not limited to foreign terrans anymore, so we should probably act on it.

WriterMaru
MarianoSC2
Profile Joined June 2015
Slovakia1855 Posts
April 09 2019 11:29 GMT
#54
On April 09 2019 07:24 StabiloBoss20 wrote:
good for Maru since TvT is his worst match up by far right now...

will this be the first time he shines at a weekender?


IEM Taipei 2015, never forget !
Top 11: Rogue, Maru, Inno, Zest, Life, sOs, Stats, Dark, soO, Mvp, Classic/Trap/MC/Rain
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
April 09 2019 11:29 GMT
#55
On April 09 2019 18:29 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2019 18:27 Harris1st wrote:
This is gonna be hell of a task. Blizzard would need to somehow make Terran easier to play. If they do a flatout buff, Maru will be unstoppable.

That's the issue, I see this as a design flaw that was made significant with LotV changes. And how they gonna fix this with the usual buffs/nerfs, oh boy. I'm not envy them the task.


Make liberators shoot widow mines?
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-09 11:48:05
April 09 2019 11:32 GMT
#56
On April 09 2019 19:22 royalroadweed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2019 17:35 Geo.Rion wrote:
On April 09 2019 17:07 deacon.frost wrote:
On April 09 2019 16:49 Harris1st wrote:
In GSL, everytime Maru gets to Ghosts, Protoss is dead. So much so that I almost considered making a statement with increasing the range of Feedback.

Now I haven't seen any of these qualifier games, but there surely have to be some macro games among them. It seems like, other Terrans underestimate the game changing capabilities ONE EMP can have

IMO it's more about that Raven and turning off high impact units like Colossus/Immortal.

To the balance discussion - IEM - 1 terran in RO12, 0T in RO8, GSL ST - 2 Terrans in RO16.

No offense to anyone, but if you think that this is fine because Maru is doing fine in GSL and because of WESG where both Terrans had only 2 realistic opponents(Dark, Serral), then I don't know what to tell ya. Oh, now I know. If you gonna use WESG, I'm gonna use WCS in how bad shape Terran is! Oooh, genious!

The last time we saw such numbers it was during the blink era and it was very easy to spot(maps, balance, MSC vision), now it appears as more of a design issue and I am very interested on how this gonna be solved by Blizzard(if ...)


I see, Terrans winning tournaments or placing top 3 doesnt matter, because there are other tournaments that they dont win or place top 3. Your logic is flawless.

The efficiency of terran whiners is just next level, there's a qualifiers which most people couldnt even watch, terrans end up having just 2 spots, and suddenly it's the end of the world. For all we know Terran will win the supertournament after this.

I'm indifferent in regards to TvP, it's a bad mu, i dont watch it a lot, so by all means, shake it up. I just enjoy the terran tears too much.

Terran not terrans. As in Maru. Because Inno winning at WESG last month was the only premier tournament won by a terran not named Maru since August of 2017.


That's true and all, but Inno did win, and it is the most recent Premier event title. Won by a terran not named Maru.
The next one gonna be GSL S1, which is gonna be won by Maru or Classic, with Maru being heavily favored by most (me at the least).

So how can you justify the current state of the game being imbalanced against terran, with pointing out how in the period between september 2017 - february 2019 Terrans not named Maru didnt win anything? There have been several patches since, the game and the meta is completely different from 1+ year ago.

Ok, i get, the Supertournament already looks bad for Terrans, 2 out of 16. But cant we at least wait with the terran-whine until (and if) they finally manage to not win the tournament?
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
MarianoSC2
Profile Joined June 2015
Slovakia1855 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-09 11:49:51
April 09 2019 11:48 GMT
#57
You guys really dont understand the game do you?
As TvP goes, Maru is an anomaly. The matchup is clearly broken since the last big revamp, but Maru found a way how to win. The problem with this is that:

a) Not everyone can do it. The way how maru approaches TvP requires insane mechanics, aggressive macro and multitasking. TY when on form can match this style, but other players cant
b) Its boring and dull. The basis of the style is, lets throw weird shi...t at the toss to disrupt his eco to the point when he cant counter attack, and cannot get economically too ahead. Then kill him in the mid-game with a super-aggressive push where Terran is at its strongest.
c) If b does not work, Terran automatically comes into the late game with a disadvantage, and therefore is screwed unless the protoss makes several big mistakes (like in Maru vs Neeb. Neeb had abysmal control and not very good positioning in the late game fights so Maru won. If he played that against a better protoos, there is just no way...)

The matchup is just effd up. Boring for the viewers, annoying for the players and only 1 terran can consistently find a way to be successful in it. If this does not indicate that a big revamp is required then I dont know what does.
Tell you what the Blink era and HOTS Collossus era were a treat compared to this. I still remember Polts hidden bio pushes or Marus no vikings Collosi snipes with MARUders. That was at least fun to watch, right?
Top 11: Rogue, Maru, Inno, Zest, Life, sOs, Stats, Dark, soO, Mvp, Classic/Trap/MC/Rain
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-09 12:03:30
April 09 2019 12:01 GMT
#58
On April 09 2019 20:48 MarianoSC2 wrote:
You guys really dont understand the game do you?
As TvP goes, Maru is an anomaly. The matchup is clearly broken since the last big revamp, but Maru found a way how to win. The problem with this is that:

a) Not everyone can do it. The way how maru approaches TvP requires insane mechanics, aggressive macro and multitasking. TY when on form can match this style, but other players cant
b) Its boring and dull. The basis of the style is, lets throw weird shi...t at the toss to disrupt his eco to the point when he cant counter attack, and cannot get economically too ahead. Then kill him in the mid-game with a super-aggressive push where Terran is at its strongest.
c) If b does not work, Terran automatically comes into the late game with a disadvantage, and therefore is screwed unless the protoss makes several big mistakes (like in Maru vs Neeb. Neeb had abysmal control and not very good positioning in the late game fights so Maru won. If he played that against a better protoos, there is just no way...)

The matchup is just effd up. Boring for the viewers, annoying for the players and only 1 terran can consistently find a way to be successful in it. If this does not indicate that a big revamp is required then I dont know what does.
Tell you what the Blink era and HOTS Collossus era were a treat compared to this. I still remember Polts hidden bio pushes or Marus no vikings Collosi snipes with MARUders. That was at least fun to watch, right?


I mean, I thought that Maru V. Neeb on Yero Zero in WESG was a pretty fantastic game, definitely not as boring as you’re making it out to be.

Can’t even fathom how intense a late game match like that would be to play...
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27360 Posts
April 09 2019 12:43 GMT
#59
On April 09 2019 21:01 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2019 20:48 MarianoSC2 wrote:
You guys really dont understand the game do you?
As TvP goes, Maru is an anomaly. The matchup is clearly broken since the last big revamp, but Maru found a way how to win. The problem with this is that:

a) Not everyone can do it. The way how maru approaches TvP requires insane mechanics, aggressive macro and multitasking. TY when on form can match this style, but other players cant
b) Its boring and dull. The basis of the style is, lets throw weird shi...t at the toss to disrupt his eco to the point when he cant counter attack, and cannot get economically too ahead. Then kill him in the mid-game with a super-aggressive push where Terran is at its strongest.
c) If b does not work, Terran automatically comes into the late game with a disadvantage, and therefore is screwed unless the protoss makes several big mistakes (like in Maru vs Neeb. Neeb had abysmal control and not very good positioning in the late game fights so Maru won. If he played that against a better protoos, there is just no way...)

The matchup is just effd up. Boring for the viewers, annoying for the players and only 1 terran can consistently find a way to be successful in it. If this does not indicate that a big revamp is required then I dont know what does.
Tell you what the Blink era and HOTS Collossus era were a treat compared to this. I still remember Polts hidden bio pushes or Marus no vikings Collosi snipes with MARUders. That was at least fun to watch, right?


I mean, I thought that Maru V. Neeb on Yero Zero in WESG was a pretty fantastic game, definitely not as boring as you’re making it out to be.

Can’t even fathom how intense a late game match like that would be to play...

Artosis and NoRegret did a really long breakdown of that game, definitely worth a watch, VoDs are up think it’s the first episode of his new series.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
MarianoSC2
Profile Joined June 2015
Slovakia1855 Posts
April 09 2019 12:54 GMT
#60
On April 09 2019 21:01 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2019 20:48 MarianoSC2 wrote:
You guys really dont understand the game do you?
As TvP goes, Maru is an anomaly. The matchup is clearly broken since the last big revamp, but Maru found a way how to win. The problem with this is that:

a) Not everyone can do it. The way how maru approaches TvP requires insane mechanics, aggressive macro and multitasking. TY when on form can match this style, but other players cant
b) Its boring and dull. The basis of the style is, lets throw weird shi...t at the toss to disrupt his eco to the point when he cant counter attack, and cannot get economically too ahead. Then kill him in the mid-game with a super-aggressive push where Terran is at its strongest.
c) If b does not work, Terran automatically comes into the late game with a disadvantage, and therefore is screwed unless the protoss makes several big mistakes (like in Maru vs Neeb. Neeb had abysmal control and not very good positioning in the late game fights so Maru won. If he played that against a better protoos, there is just no way...)

The matchup is just effd up. Boring for the viewers, annoying for the players and only 1 terran can consistently find a way to be successful in it. If this does not indicate that a big revamp is required then I dont know what does.
Tell you what the Blink era and HOTS Collossus era were a treat compared to this. I still remember Polts hidden bio pushes or Marus no vikings Collosi snipes with MARUders. That was at least fun to watch, right?


I mean, I thought that Maru V. Neeb on Yero Zero in WESG was a pretty fantastic game, definitely not as boring as you’re making it out to be.

Can’t even fathom how intense a late game match like that would be to play...



And how often do we get games like that? 1 in a 100? Maybe not even...
Top 11: Rogue, Maru, Inno, Zest, Life, sOs, Stats, Dark, soO, Mvp, Classic/Trap/MC/Rain
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech164
OGKoka 137
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 2706
Hyuk 241
Soma 162
Mong 89
Sharp 36
Hm[arnc] 33
Aegong 32
NaDa 28
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Britney 0
League of Legends
JimRising 517
Counter-Strike
olofmeister714
shoxiejesuss546
Other Games
summit1g11568
ceh9660
Mew2King165
Sick152
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick731
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH402
• LUISG 16
• Letter148
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 12
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2251
League of Legends
• Jankos1593
• Stunt430
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2h 12m
Cure vs SHIN
herO vs Solar
Percival vs Classic
ByuN vs Rogue
OSC
13h 12m
Replay Cast
15h 12m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 2h
Replay Cast
1d 15h
GSL
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL
3 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
3 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Shine vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Light vs EffOrt
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.