EPTHard to discuss against him being the GOAT.
INnoVation defeats Serral to win WESG 2018 - Page 2
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Xamo
Spain880 Posts
Hard to discuss against him being the GOAT. | ||
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TwiggyWan
France330 Posts
On March 18 2019 05:26 yubo56 wrote: Probably doesn't hurt that he's the "second laziest, after only scarlett" according to the chinese volunteer's blog posted on here just a bit back But how can a machine be lazy? | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Machines don't need to practice. They also don't suffer from wrist injuries. They do apparently have a year-long maintenance schedules. We've solved it. On March 18 2019 05:30 Waxangel wrote: maybe the secret to a long career is literally taking entire years off to play league of legends :D Scarlett was just ahead of the curve with her 2015 break for Dota2  It would be so hilarious if Inno is eventually named undisputed GOAT and it turns out he always liked League more. "If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed." | ||
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HsDLTitich
Italy830 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33432 Posts
Maybe he's watching hoping that Teddy will suck so his bro might get a chance to start ;o | ||
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argonautdice
Canada2719 Posts
I think Polt ties him in terms of winning a Premier every year from 2011 to 2016 (as well as being along with MMA the only two with a Premier win in all three versions WoL, HotS, and LotV I think?), but Inno's wins were definitely more competitive. Edit: interestingly, if we look at Premier final appearances MaNa's first final appearance was in 2010 and last one in 2018. Man he's been around for the entirety of the game haha. | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
But let's be real, the true story of this tournament was that abomination of a game 1 between Maru and Scarlett  Edit: With "GOAT" I obviously mean in SC2, worded that slightly poorly | ||
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invisigoat
184 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
On March 18 2019 07:42 Waxangel wrote: It also makes MORE sense for him to watch SKT games now since his brother is a trainee there now (he watched LoL esports before this, too). Maybe he's watching hoping that Teddy will suck so his bro might get a chance to start ;o Well he has been deprived of an MVP for the last 4 weeks, so idk maybe it's time for Gumayusi to step in | ||
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UnLarva
458 Posts
http://aligulac.com/records/hof/ Inno's win and recent form is also nice thing in other sense too; that discussion about cognitive performance and reaction levels of elder Starcraft players doesn't hold it's point very well if one of the oldest active vets of the scene can continue doing these kind things. Serral and Maru had hardly grown even pubic hair when Inno played at the top level.  Let's see how long he out last younger guys. I fear, longer than the game will live... | ||
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argonautdice
Canada2719 Posts
On March 18 2019 07:56 UnLarva wrote: I've no enough knowledge and competence to truly evaluate and compare weights of entire careers of SC2 players, but one thing is sure, some other guys who can, does that: http://aligulac.com/records/hof/ Inno's win and recent form is also nice thing in other sense too; that discussion about cognitive performance and reaction levels of elder Starcraft players doesn't hold it's point very well if one of the oldest active vets of the scene can continue doing these kind things. Serral and Maru had hardly grown even pubic hair when Inno played at the top level. Let's see how long he out last younger guys. I fear, longer than the game will live... The cognitive performance thing was that it peaks at 24, and it was mainly about reaction times. Inno is 25 so not too far away from the "peak" and being the god of SC2 is different from having the best response times. Also I think Inno will last longer than all of us will live | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐 | ||
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shadow4723
87 Posts
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argonautdice
Canada2719 Posts
On March 18 2019 08:02 shadow4723 wrote: does anyone know the difference between aligulac earnings (http://aligulac.com/earnings/) and esportsearnings (https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/151-starcraft-ii/top-players), where inno is 2nd? I think it has to do with them using different currency conversion rates. | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
On March 18 2019 07:56 UnLarva wrote: I've no enough knowledge and competence to truly evaluate and compare weights of entire careers of SC2 players, but one thing is sure, some other guys who can, does that: http://aligulac.com/records/hof/ Inno's win and recent form is also nice thing in other sense too; that discussion about cognitive performance and reaction levels of elder Starcraft players doesn't hold it's point very well if one of the oldest active vets of the scene can continue doing these kind things. Serral and Maru had hardly grown even pubic hair when Inno played at the top level. Let's see how long he out last younger guys. I fear, longer than the game will live... The cognitive performace point is a good one. Statistically people peak in their coordination and reaction abilities at around 25-30 years old, so while there is some truth to it when people attribute someone's losses to "being old", it is a fundamental attribution error because mostly it's a question of motivation, time management etc. | ||
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UnLarva
458 Posts
On March 18 2019 08:13 Akio wrote: The cognitive performace point is a good one. Statistically people peak in their coordination and reaction abilities at around 25-30 years old, so while there is some truth to it when people attribute someone's losses to "being old", it is a fundamental attribution error because mostly it's a question of motivation, time management etc. Yep. Whole SC2 isn't enough old to that aspect having yet become significant factor in top level player success. At least samples are too small to make any difference. Korean conscription has hundredfold higher impact to "decline" of elder players than age. Besides, even if (and when it is true) it's true that on average neuro-motoric skills tend to peak between 25-30 yo in general populace, that doesn't mean that top level SC2 player pool represents general populace in this matter very well. To me it's seems to that at current level of top competitive play, there can only exist individuals that are filtered out crop of cream of 1%:ers. That discussion - while containing real statistical, scientific data - feels little bit far reaching considering the age of E-sport and available historical sample. Hopefully we see all of our heroes (and heroinesses) still competing in their 40s. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33432 Posts
On March 18 2019 07:49 Akio wrote: As someone mentioned already, it's actually insane how consistent INnoVation has been, not only in SC2 but even back in the late KeSpa BW days he was considered one of the top Terrans. And 10 major championships? I think if he keeps up the consistency in the near future, we could maybe actually start talking about the greatest of all time at that point. Congrats again, Robogus! But let's be real, the true story of this tournament was that abomination of a game 1 between Maru and Scarlett Edit: With "GOAT" I obviously mean in SC2, worded that slightly poorly I think the beauty (and misery) of the GOAT debates is how many different ways you can go with criteria. INnoVation definitely has the "Kareem Abdul-Jabaar" case for being called the GOAT, in terms of having unmatched longevity, insane compiled statistics, and an incredible championship resume. Yet, I get the feeling that like Kareem, INnoVation's lack of mass-appeal and disinterest in public image will see many award the GOAT title to a more "Jordan"-esque entity who has the power of narrative and mythology behind him. | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
On March 18 2019 08:24 Waxangel wrote: I think the beauty (and misery) of the GOAT debates is how many different ways you can go with criteria. INnoVation definitely has the "Kareem Abdul-Jabaar" case for being called the GOAT, in terms of having unmatched longevity, insane compiled statistics, and an incredible championship resume. Yet, I get the feeling that like Kareem, INnoVation's lack of mass-appeal and disinterest in public relations will see many award the GOAT title to a more "Jordan"-esque entity who has the power of narrative and mythology behind him. Not to get all Mr. Agreeable On Reddit but this is so true, and last year was a perfect example of this. Generally the more short-term (in context), godlike highs we saw from Maru and Serral are the storylines that draw more public attention. And it's no wonder why, I mean anyone who knows even a little about the game can and will be impressed with someone winning 3 GSL Code S tournaments in a row or however long Serral's bo3/5 streak ended up being. Then again, when the narrative isn't "first non-Korean champion" or "young prodigy turned into king of GSL", but more closer to "oh yeah, this guy's always been good and won a lot over the course of many years", it lacks the oomph that an article released in say a mainstream esports mag would hope for in this day and age. | ||
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NinjaNight
428 Posts
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐 soO must be the best player in the world then. He has been dominating Innovation every time they play on ladder. Including matches on ladder the day of WESG finals before the tournament started. | ||
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UnLarva
458 Posts
On March 18 2019 08:24 Waxangel wrote: I think the beauty (and misery) of the GOAT debates is how many different ways you can go with criteria. INnoVation definitely has the "Kareem Abdul-Jabaar" case for being called the GOAT, in terms of having unmatched longevity, insane compiled statistics, and an incredible championship resume. Yet, I get the feeling that like Kareem, INnoVation's lack of mass-appeal and disinterest in public image will see many award the GOAT title to a more "Jordan"-esque entity who has the power of narrative and mythology behind him. In hockey terms Inno is like Jaromir Jagr (or Mr. Hockey). The Paramount of consistency containing some important peaks and all time records. In flashiness (pun intended) there may be more Lemieux'esque players around, at least if limiting time frame of perspection. General note to that GOAT discussion. Sometimes it feels that people doesn't even do anything else then seeking those GOATs, chats are full of (often low quality) debates in a hyperbolic search of 'next Gretzky' and what is most alarming and frustrating, typical 'discussions' tend to heavily discount the past, even relatively recent past. One day, one bad game and the hero transforms to villain and pariah, next day and same guy is heralded again to the stratospheric heights of the eternal glory, often accompanied with insane drive to over-exaggerate a minor differences in everything possible to make a gap to those others 'mere mortals' look bigger than it really is: rigidly subjective black-or-white thinking is necessity in that process, but always there must be that one (even if objectively there would be several fulfilling the criteria)... Part of the consideration someone to be GOAT contains some aspect of longevity, it contains also high level of consistency, it requires peak performances and glorious wins, also some level of domination over peers of an era, record breaking achievements. One part of the status of GOAT is that the true GOAT seems to be someway above all of that shortsighted hyperbolic yes-no-yes-no-yes-no... argumentation. Important part of it is also widespread respect among peers. In SC2 terms InnoVation has every single one of these attributes, and if there can be pointed out the GOAT player at all in SC2, then InnoVation is obvious choice for the first to be pointed out. IMHO. | ||
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