EPTI think thats his way of saying Serrals lategame is good..which it clearly is by any standard.. it did appear at times though that he was attempting to avoid it with Innovation. For all that talk about how Nukes were going to be a problem with Chinese game sound he handled them pretty perfectly in game 6..so unsure why that might be.
INnoVation defeats Serral to win WESG 2018 - Page 5
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
I think thats his way of saying Serrals lategame is good..which it clearly is by any standard.. it did appear at times though that he was attempting to avoid it with Innovation. For all that talk about how Nukes were going to be a problem with Chinese game sound he handled them pretty perfectly in game 6..so unsure why that might be. | ||
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DreamlnCode
United Kingdom77 Posts
On March 19 2019 05:14 DomeGetta wrote: I think thats his way of saying Serrals lategame is good..which it clearly is by any standard.. it did appear at times though that he was attempting to avoid it with Innovation. Yeh I just wanted to be sure. the basic point I was making is that foreign Terrans arn't going to give him the training he needs for that specific match up (ZvT) late game. | ||
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
On March 19 2019 04:58 Poopi wrote: Next step was losing in GSL ro16 as expected actually Haha in all seriousness though - he's not lying about soO's ladder performance - Maru and Inno both were getting agitated in the games and he ran a disgusting map score all said in done - not sure about prior to literally last week though - but his ZvT looked unreal. | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On March 19 2019 02:22 DreamlnCode wrote: First seeing Inno take Serral in the IEM match that "had no meaning & Serral wasn't even trying" and then to see the same thing happen in the WESG says to me Serral seriously need to work at his lategame ZvT and he's not going to get that in Europe/NA. Congrats to Inno and hope Serral can learn from this experience. Serral won the only long macro game between the 2 of them in the finals, most of the games were cheese. Did you watch the finals or are you just guessing how the games went and drawing conclusions? OT: congrats to innovation. If Serral was to lose to either maru or inno, I wanted it to be to inno. Innovation played great and I hope to see Serral come to the next international event stronger. So far this year, he looks solid, but he no longer feels immortal. | ||
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
On March 19 2019 05:17 DreamlnCode wrote: Yeh I just wanted to be sure. the basic point I was making is that foreign Terrans arn't going to give him the training he needs for that specific match up (ZvT) late game. Ya this is very clear - he did apparently run a ladder account up very high MMR on Korea though I would guess ZvT was his lowest winrate though- it's actually a scary thought thinking of how good he might be if practiced regularly with horsemen. There are other great Z/P on Eu (Lambo/Namshar/Nerchio/Showtime/Neeb plays a lot on EU) but really Uthermal and Gabe is all you get there - they are both really good but Maru/TY/Inno clearly a different level. | ||
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DreamlnCode
United Kingdom77 Posts
On March 19 2019 05:20 StasisField wrote: Serral won the only long macro game between the 2 of them in the finals, most of the games were cheese. Did you watch the finals or are you just guessing how the games went and drawing conclusions? OT: congrats to innovation. If Serral was to lose to either maru or inno, I wanted it to be to inno. Innovation played great and I hope to see Serral come to the next international event stronger. So far this year, he looks solid, but he no longer feels immortal. Nope also going on the Serral v Innovation IEM game too. | ||
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
On March 19 2019 05:20 StasisField wrote: Serral won the only long macro game between the 2 of them in the finals, most of the games were cheese. Did you watch the finals or are you just guessing how the games went and drawing conclusions? OT: congrats to innovation. If Serral was to lose to either maru or inno, I wanted it to be to inno. Innovation played great and I hope to see Serral come to the next international event stronger. So far this year, he looks solid, but he no longer feels immortal. To be fair though - Serral won the only game that went to "super" late game - which makes sense. Serral made the decision in multiple games to not allow for that situation to occur - if I had to guess I think he was probably uncomfortable in the late mid to early late game part of the game vs Inno - which is where he took most of his advantage in the games he won. Hardest part of the game for Z in the m.u. right now in my opinion - | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On March 19 2019 05:24 DomeGetta wrote: To be fair though - Serral won the only game that went to "super" late game - which makes sense. Serral made the decision in multiple games to not allow for that situation to occur - if I had to guess I think he was probably uncomfortable in the late mid to early late game part of the game vs Inno - which is where he took most of his advantage in the games he won. Hardest part of the game for Z in the m.u. right now in my opinion - I can agree to that. Game 5 and game 7 both ended in the late stages of the mid game/the early stages of the late game which looked to be when innovation looked strongest and serral looked to be on his back foot. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 19 2019 05:29 StasisField wrote: I can agree to that. Game 5 and game 7 both ended in the late stages of the mid game/the early stages of the late game which looked to be when innovation looked strongest and serral looked to be on his back foot. Those games can't be boxed up so neatly. Both Serral and Inno won the games where they got early advantages. Game 5: Inno made an early tank push that denied mining and even beat back the first attempt by Serral to clean it up. He snowballed that advantage with later pushes, and while Serral did manage to tech up to BL, Inno was already on top of his bases by that point and he had no economy to keep fighting. Game 6: Serral deflected the 2/1/1 with minimal damage and built a strong eco lead. He tried to close it out with a BL push but Inno made a sick hold and Serral had to fall back on his stronger economy to eventually starve Inno out. Game 7: Inno went for a semi-allin tank push that took down Serral's third and never looked back from there. Serral went for a desperation spire but the mutas didn't get enough done and Inno slow pushed until Serral was forced to fight or die. He fought and died. Point being that you can't just divide the games up into stages and say Serral has an advantage here or Inno is favored there. Momentum matters. | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On March 19 2019 06:07 pvsnp wrote: Those games can't be boxed up so neatly. Both Serral and Inno won the games where they got early advantages. Game 5: Inno made an early tank push that denied mining and even beat back the first attempt by Serral to clean it up. He snowballed that advantage with later pushes and while Serral did manage to tech up to BL, Inno was already on top of his bases by that point and he had no economy to keep fighting. Game 6: Serral deflected the 2/1/1 with minimal damage and built a strong eco lead. He tried to close it out with a BL push but Inno managed a sick hold and Serral had to fall back on his stronger economy to eventually starve Inno out. Game 7: Inno went for a semi-allin tank push that took down Serral's third and never looked back from there. Serral went for a desperation spire but the mutas didn't get enough done and Inno slow pushed until Serral was forced to fight or die. He fought and died. Point being that you can't just divide the games up into stages and say Serral has an advantage here or Inno is favored there. Momentum matters. Yeah, I guess I didn't think of that. I wish we got to see more games between the two of them. Hopefully, Serral will perform very well at GSL vs The World again so we can see a wide array of games between him and high level koreans again and come to a better conclusion about his general strengths and weaknesses. | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
On March 19 2019 06:20 StasisField wrote: Yeah, I guess I didn't think of that. I wish we got to see more games between the two of them. Hopefully, Serral will perform very well at GSL vs The World again so we can see a wide array of games between him and high level koreans again and come to a better conclusion about his general strengths and weaknesses. here is hoping that dude should just abandon all the reasons behind and come to qualify gsl lIke other foreigners already | ||
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Xamo
Spain886 Posts
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Achamian
82 Posts
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NinjaNight
428 Posts
On March 19 2019 07:29 Xamo wrote: Serral is not going to participate in GSL at least until he has his spot in Blizzcon secured through WCS points. It would be stupid to do it any other way. I think a few months ago he said he's not really interested in competing in GSL. So I'm not sure that it's ever going to happen. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On March 19 2019 08:49 NinjaNight wrote: I think a few months ago he said he's not really interested in competing in GSL. So I'm not sure that it's ever going to happen. He didn't exactly said that. I'm not expecting him to play Code S this year, in any of case. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7423 Posts
And GSL has never given out random invites, they won't start now | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12134 Posts
On March 19 2019 18:27 Harris1st wrote: Serral would need at least an invitation to the Ro32. Not because I think he couldn't qualify but because it would probably mean another 3 weeks in Korea to play qualifier. And GSL has never given out random invites, they won't start now IIRC NaNiwa & Stephano were directly seeded. But since Code S is the regional league of Korea while WCS is locked regional league of foreigners it would be fine if at least some rules of protection would apply. e.g. a Korean citizen with approprate visa have to live in the region 30 days prior to the competition, how about we give Serral the same treatment?  Edit> I honestly hope there will be no seeds. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7423 Posts
On March 19 2019 18:35 deacon.frost wrote: IIRC NaNiwa & Stephano were directly seeded. Didn't know that. Do you know which year? On March 19 2019 18:35 deacon.frost wrote: But since Code S is the regional league of Korea while WCS is locked regional league of foreigners it would be fine if at least some rules of protection would apply. e.g. a Korean citizen with approprate visa have to live in the region 30 days prior to the competition, how about we give Serral the same treatment? Edit> I honestly hope there will be no seeds. No need for baiting. Fine with me. And that's the reason Serral will probably never play GSL | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On March 19 2019 18:35 deacon.frost wrote: IIRC NaNiwa & Stephano were directly seeded. But since Code S is the regional league of Korea while WCS is locked regional league of foreigners it would be fine if at least some rules of protection would apply. e.g. a Korean citizen with approprate visa have to live in the region 30 days prior to the competition, how about we give Serral the same treatment? Edit> I honestly hope there will be no seeds. GSL used to reserve a couple of direct spots to code S for foreigners in the past. Not sure if this stopped in WoL or HoTS but it definitely wasn't the case anymore after 2013. A seed for Serral could be justified by either him being BlizzCon Champion, ike at IEM and WESG(even if Code S doesn't even grant a spot to its winner; that's a bit silly in my opinion. On a side note, who would get to swap people during group selection if the winner did not qualiry? I don't think it has ever happened) or because he attracts audience: just look at IEM, Serral vs soO registered the peak of viewers(or was very close) despite being played in the ro8. It would be unlikely for Serral to be eliminated in Code A, it almost never happens that top koreans don't qualify for Code S nowadays. In any of case, Code S would still force Serral to spend three months in Korea and that's more than he would like to live abroad if he stays true to what he said last year, he could very well change his mind. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12134 Posts
On March 19 2019 19:36 Xain0n wrote: GSL used to reserve a couple of direct spots to code S for foreigners in the past. Not sure if this stopped in WoL or HoTS but it definitely wasn't the case anymore after 2013. A seed for Serral could be justified by either him being BlizzCon Champion, ike at IEM and WESG(even if Code S doesn't even grant a spot to its winner; that's a bit silly in my opinion. On a side note, who would get to swap people during group selection if the winner did not qualiry? I don't think it has ever happened) or because he attracts audience: just look at IEM, Serral vs soO registered the peak of viewers(or was very close) despite being played in the ro8. It would be unlikely for Serral to be eliminated in Code A, it almost never happens that top koreans don't qualify for Code S nowadays. In any of case, Code S would still force Serral to spend three months in Korea and that's more than he would like to live abroad if he stays true to what he said last year, he could very well change his mind. Where does Code S rules state you have to live in the Korea for the whole time? You can fly in, play the group, fly out. Fly in, play the group, fly out. Fly in, play the RO8, fly out. Sure, it's not cheap, but IIRC you don't have to BE physicially in Korea. Even for the qualifiers(edit> I mean you can fly in) | ||
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