The legend of odd-year INnoVation continued in 2019 as the Korean Terran player won his tenth major championship, defeating Finland's Serral 4-3 in the finals the World Electronic Sports Games. The victory signaled a triumphant return to championship form for INnoVation, whose poor 2018 campaign had seen him fail to qualify for the WCS Global Finals. The WESG victory also gave INnoVation his single largest prize-money haul of his career at $150,000, pushing him to third place in the all-time prize money rankings.
Serral had bested INnoVation twice in 2018, sweeping him in the quarterfinals of GSL vs. The World and winning 4-3 in the finals of HomeStory Cup 18. However, INnoVation had won their most recent clash in the IEM Katowice group stage, using his Ghost-Liberator style to outlast Serral in two marathon games (granted, the match had no competitive stakes due to group rankings already being determined).
The series from IEM may have been on both Serral and INnoVAtion's minds to begin the WESG finals, with the two players splitting the first four maps 2-2 with a succession of cheesy strategies including proxy-Hatcheries, proxy-Barracks, and Ravager busts.
INnoVation broke the tie in game five in vintage INnoVation fashion, slowly wearing Serral down with endless waves of Terran troops after seizing the early game advantage with an incisive Marine-Tank attack. However, Serral tied the series back up at 3-3 with a spectacular late-game victory on Cyber Forest, where his experiences from his IEM loss seemed to bear fruit. Drawing the defensive lines to include just a single extra mining base on his side of the map, Serral held out against a relentless barrage of tactical nukes to outlast INnoVation in a brutal match.
With the series and championship on the line, INnoVation opted for another powerful Marine-Tank attack, similar to the one that had won him game five. Once more, Serral took significant damage while defending, and once more, INnoVation ruthlessly snowballed his lead. After a final, last-ditch engagement, Serral gave up the last GG of the series, crowning INnoVation the WESG 2018 champion.
After a poor 2016 where he admitted to taking too much time off, INnoVation bounced back with an amazing WCS 2017 campaign that saw him win four major championships during the tournament cycle. StarCraft II fans will be eager to see if 2019 will be a repeat of the same story, with INnoVation reminding everyone that one fallow year means nothing to one of the game's greatest champions.
In the third place match, Maru overcame a 0-2 deficit against Scarlett to win in a reverse sweep, claiming the $20,000 3rd place prize (Scarlett won $10,000 for 4th place). Scarlett's game one victory was one of the bizarre highlights of the tournament, with Maru leaving an otherwise tie-able game due to being unaware of Terran's building float spots on the map. Though Scarlett was able to take a second game with a Nydus all-in, Maru rallied back to win the next three games.
Innovation's longevity has been insane - he's been playing at a high level since 2012, and still doesn't seem to be slowing down. He's still only 25, so he's not that old yet, and hasn't had a major injury that has limited his play (knocks on wood)
Meanwhile, we've seen so many legends drop off due to age / injuries: Mvp Nestea MMA MC Taeja ...
Fun fact: All three WESG finals so far have been a 4-3 close series, with a Korean Terran winning it all. I guess in order to get a good grand finals the entire tournament needs to suck first.
On March 18 2019 05:01 Bagration wrote: Innovation's longevity has been insane - he's been playing at a high level since 2012, and still doesn't seem to be slowing down. He's still only 25, so he's not that old yet, and hasn't had a major injury that has limited his play (knocks on wood)
Meanwhile, we've seen so many legends drop off due to age / injuries: Mvp Nestea MMA MC Taeja ...
Probably doesn't hurt that he's the "second laziest, after only scarlett" according to the chinese volunteer's blog posted on here just a bit back
On March 18 2019 05:01 Bagration wrote: Innovation's longevity has been insane - he's been playing at a high level since 2012, and still doesn't seem to be slowing down. He's still only 25, so he's not that old yet, and hasn't had a major injury that has limited his play (knocks on wood)
Meanwhile, we've seen so many legends drop off due to age / injuries: Mvp Nestea MMA MC Taeja ...
Probably doesn't hurt that he's the "second laziest, after only scarlett" according to the chinese volunteer's blog posted on here just a bit back
On March 18 2019 05:09 yht9657 wrote: Truly the war machine of Korea.
Fun fact: All three WESG finals so far have been a 4-3 close series, with a Korean Terran winning it all. I guess in order to get a good grand finals the entire tournament needs to suck first.
Maybe the grand final needs to be played on a separate day? Or just the final needs to involve T
Maru and Scarlett both forgetting about buildings being able to fly into corners is even more surreal than the explanations we were coming up with around the weird WESG rules about ties.
You MUST be capable of doing better in every aspects of your product!
Regardless of your apparent efforts and a lot of heavy duty and hard work the end result of your product was sub-par! Especially if your aim was to improve the prestige of the tournament.
- Sub-par streaming, to international audiences particularly. - Excellent grandiose facade without soul - Technical problems here and there, during whole tournament consistently - Severe issues in the representation via internet: total suckF schedule makes no good, but if it is combined with lack of accurate timers, lack of accurate brackets, lack of everything practically 'very basic' things that make a tournament something people wants to watch, follow... and hype... urgh! argh! - Nobody can build genuine hype if all above fails! - Money can buy what money can buy, but you cannot buy your audiences
It's management issue. Rank-and-file workers did their jobs very well.
On March 18 2019 05:14 BlazingGlory wrote: Couldnt watch. How were the games?
Pretty forgettable... Mostly decided by all-ins and timing attacks before the 8 minute mark. The one long macro game (nukes and all) was won by Serral, but he had a pretty big early advantage (even though he throw away most of it). The result/story is more interesting than the series itself
300K in the bank in Q1 - 2 players who didn't qualify for Blizzcon - thanks region lock. Inno is a complete monster - even though he lost it - he was unreal in game 6 - most impressive late game T I have seen in the modern age - was such a good series - surprised how aggro Serral was early on - maybe trying to be less predictable. Wish we had these tournaments every month!
On March 18 2019 05:01 Bagration wrote: Innovation's longevity has been insane - he's been playing at a high level since 2012, and still doesn't seem to be slowing down. He's still only 25, so he's not that old yet, and hasn't had a major injury that has limited his play (knocks on wood)
Meanwhile, we've seen so many legends drop off due to age / injuries: Mvp Nestea MMA MC Taeja ...
Probably doesn't hurt that he's the "second laziest, after only scarlett" according to the chinese volunteer's blog posted on here just a bit back
On March 18 2019 05:01 Bagration wrote: Innovation's longevity has been insane - he's been playing at a high level since 2012, and still doesn't seem to be slowing down. He's still only 25, so he's not that old yet, and hasn't had a major injury that has limited his play (knocks on wood)
Meanwhile, we've seen so many legends drop off due to age / injuries: Mvp Nestea MMA MC Taeja ...
Probably doesn't hurt that he's the "second laziest, after only scarlett" according to the chinese volunteer's blog posted on here just a bit back
On March 18 2019 05:01 Bagration wrote: Innovation's longevity has been insane - he's been playing at a high level since 2012, and still doesn't seem to be slowing down. He's still only 25, so he's not that old yet, and hasn't had a major injury that has limited his play (knocks on wood)
Meanwhile, we've seen so many legends drop off due to age / injuries: Mvp Nestea MMA MC Taeja ...
Probably doesn't hurt that he's the "second laziest, after only scarlett" according to the chinese volunteer's blog posted on here just a bit back
On March 18 2019 05:01 Bagration wrote: Innovation's longevity has been insane - he's been playing at a high level since 2012, and still doesn't seem to be slowing down. He's still only 25, so he's not that old yet, and hasn't had a major injury that has limited his play (knocks on wood)
Meanwhile, we've seen so many legends drop off due to age / injuries: Mvp Nestea MMA MC Taeja ...
Probably doesn't hurt that he's the "second laziest, after only scarlett" according to the chinese volunteer's blog posted on here just a bit back
But how can a machine be lazy?
Machines don't need to practice. They also don't suffer from wrist injuries. They do apparently have a year-long maintenance schedules. We've solved it.
On March 18 2019 05:01 Bagration wrote: Innovation's longevity has been insane - he's been playing at a high level since 2012, and still doesn't seem to be slowing down. He's still only 25, so he's not that old yet, and hasn't had a major injury that has limited his play (knocks on wood)
Meanwhile, we've seen so many legends drop off due to age / injuries: Mvp Nestea MMA MC Taeja ...
Probably doesn't hurt that he's the "second laziest, after only scarlett" according to the chinese volunteer's blog posted on here just a bit back
I believe Innovation has the longest run of championships from his first Premier win in WCS 2013 Season 2 in June to his WESG win just now, which is almost 6 years. I haven't seen anyone beat that. He also has won a Premier tournament every year in 2013-2017 as well as 2019, which is 6 out of the 10 years SC2 has been around. I don't think anyone else has beaten that record either. So statistically Inno has a case for GOAT.
I think Polt ties him in terms of winning a Premier every year from 2011 to 2016 (as well as being along with MMA the only two with a Premier win in all three versions WoL, HotS, and LotV I think?), but Inno's wins were definitely more competitive.
Edit: interestingly, if we look at Premier final appearances MaNa's first final appearance was in 2010 and last one in 2018. Man he's been around for the entirety of the game haha.
As someone mentioned already, it's actually insane how consistent INnoVation has been, not only in SC2 but even back in the late KeSpa BW days he was considered one of the top Terrans. And 10 major championships? I think if he keeps up the consistency in the near future, we could maybe actually start talking about the greatest of all time at that point. Congrats again, Robogus!
But let's be real, the true story of this tournament was that abomination of a game 1 between Maru and Scarlett
Edit: With "GOAT" I obviously mean in SC2, worded that slightly poorly
Just as some other players (Maru) were starting to make the conversation for GOAT a bit more interesting, the Machine reminds us why he deserves to be considered #1. Good to have him looking to be back in form after last year.
On March 18 2019 07:42 Waxangel wrote: It also makes MORE sense for him to watch SKT games now since his brother is a trainee there now (he watched LoL esports before this, too).
Maybe he's watching hoping that Teddy will suck so his bro might get a chance to start ;o
Well he has been deprived of an MVP for the last 4 weeks, so idk maybe it's time for Gumayusi to step in
I've no enough knowledge and competence to truly evaluate and compare weights of entire careers of SC2 players, but one thing is sure, some other guys who can, does that:
Inno's win and recent form is also nice thing in other sense too; that discussion about cognitive performance and reaction levels of elder Starcraft players doesn't hold it's point very well if one of the oldest active vets of the scene can continue doing these kind things. Serral and Maru had hardly grown even pubic hair when Inno played at the top level.
On March 18 2019 07:56 UnLarva wrote: I've no enough knowledge and competence to truly evaluate and compare weights of entire careers of SC2 players, but one thing is sure, some other guys who can, does that:
Inno's win and recent form is also nice thing in other sense too; that discussion about cognitive performance and reaction levels of elder Starcraft players doesn't hold it's point very well if one of the oldest active vets of the scene can continue doing these kind things. Serral and Maru had hardly grown even pubic hair when Inno played at the top level.
Let's see how long he out last younger guys.
I fear, longer than the game will live...
The cognitive performance thing was that it peaks at 24, and it was mainly about reaction times. Inno is 25 so not too far away from the "peak" and being the god of SC2 is different from having the best response times.
Also I think Inno will last longer than all of us will live
GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
does anyone know the difference between aligulac earnings (http://aligulac.com/earnings/) and esportsearnings (https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/151-starcraft-ii/top-players), where inno is 2nd?
On March 18 2019 08:02 shadow4723 wrote: does anyone know the difference between aligulac earnings (http://aligulac.com/earnings/) and esportsearnings (https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/151-starcraft-ii/top-players), where inno is 2nd?
I think it has to do with them using different currency conversion rates.
On March 18 2019 07:56 UnLarva wrote: I've no enough knowledge and competence to truly evaluate and compare weights of entire careers of SC2 players, but one thing is sure, some other guys who can, does that:
Inno's win and recent form is also nice thing in other sense too; that discussion about cognitive performance and reaction levels of elder Starcraft players doesn't hold it's point very well if one of the oldest active vets of the scene can continue doing these kind things. Serral and Maru had hardly grown even pubic hair when Inno played at the top level.
Let's see how long he out last younger guys.
I fear, longer than the game will live...
The cognitive performace point is a good one. Statistically people peak in their coordination and reaction abilities at around 25-30 years old, so while there is some truth to it when people attribute someone's losses to "being old", it is a fundamental attribution error because mostly it's a question of motivation, time management etc.
On March 18 2019 07:56 UnLarva wrote: I've no enough knowledge and competence to truly evaluate and compare weights of entire careers of SC2 players, but one thing is sure, some other guys who can, does that:
Inno's win and recent form is also nice thing in other sense too; that discussion about cognitive performance and reaction levels of elder Starcraft players doesn't hold it's point very well if one of the oldest active vets of the scene can continue doing these kind things. Serral and Maru had hardly grown even pubic hair when Inno played at the top level.
Let's see how long he out last younger guys.
I fear, longer than the game will live...
The cognitive performace point is a good one. Statistically people peak in their coordination and reaction abilities at around 25-30 years old, so while there is some truth to it when people attribute someone's losses to "being old", it is a fundamental attribution error because mostly it's a question of motivation, time management etc.
Yep. Whole SC2 isn't enough old to that aspect having yet become significant factor in top level player success. At least samples are too small to make any difference. Korean conscription has hundredfold higher impact to "decline" of elder players than age. Besides, even if (and when it is true) it's true that on average neuro-motoric skills tend to peak between 25-30 yo in general populace, that doesn't mean that top level SC2 player pool represents general populace in this matter very well. To me it's seems to that at current level of top competitive play, there can only exist individuals that are filtered out crop of cream of 1%:ers.
That discussion - while containing real statistical, scientific data - feels little bit far reaching considering the age of E-sport and available historical sample.
Hopefully we see all of our heroes (and heroinesses) still competing in their 40s.
On March 18 2019 07:49 Akio wrote: As someone mentioned already, it's actually insane how consistent INnoVation has been, not only in SC2 but even back in the late KeSpa BW days he was considered one of the top Terrans. And 10 major championships? I think if he keeps up the consistency in the near future, we could maybe actually start talking about the greatest of all time at that point. Congrats again, Robogus!
But let's be real, the true story of this tournament was that abomination of a game 1 between Maru and Scarlett
Edit: With "GOAT" I obviously mean in SC2, worded that slightly poorly
I think the beauty (and misery) of the GOAT debates is how many different ways you can go with criteria. INnoVation definitely has the "Kareem Abdul-Jabaar" case for being called the GOAT, in terms of having unmatched longevity, insane compiled statistics, and an incredible championship resume. Yet, I get the feeling that like Kareem, INnoVation's lack of mass-appeal and disinterest in public image will see many award the GOAT title to a more "Jordan"-esque entity who has the power of narrative and mythology behind him.
On March 18 2019 07:49 Akio wrote: As someone mentioned already, it's actually insane how consistent INnoVation has been, not only in SC2 but even back in the late KeSpa BW days he was considered one of the top Terrans. And 10 major championships? I think if he keeps up the consistency in the near future, we could maybe actually start talking about the greatest of all time at that point. Congrats again, Robogus!
But let's be real, the true story of this tournament was that abomination of a game 1 between Maru and Scarlett
Edit: With "GOAT" I obviously mean in SC2, worded that slightly poorly
I think the beauty (and misery) of the GOAT debates is how many different ways you can go with criteria. INnoVation definitely has the "Kareem Abdul-Jabaar" case for being called the GOAT, in terms of having unmatched longevity, insane compiled statistics, and an incredible championship resume. Yet, I get the feeling that like Kareem, INnoVation's lack of mass-appeal and disinterest in public relations will see many award the GOAT title to a more "Jordan"-esque entity who has the power of narrative and mythology behind him.
Not to get all Mr. Agreeable On Reddit but this is so true, and last year was a perfect example of this. Generally the more short-term (in context), godlike highs we saw from Maru and Serral are the storylines that draw more public attention. And it's no wonder why, I mean anyone who knows even a little about the game can and will be impressed with someone winning 3 GSL Code S tournaments in a row or however long Serral's bo3/5 streak ended up being. Then again, when the narrative isn't "first non-Korean champion" or "young prodigy turned into king of GSL", but more closer to "oh yeah, this guy's always been good and won a lot over the course of many years", it lacks the oomph that an article released in say a mainstream esports mag would hope for in this day and age.
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
soO must be the best player in the world then. He has been dominating Innovation every time they play on ladder. Including matches on ladder the day of WESG finals before the tournament started.
On March 18 2019 07:49 Akio wrote: As someone mentioned already, it's actually insane how consistent INnoVation has been, not only in SC2 but even back in the late KeSpa BW days he was considered one of the top Terrans. And 10 major championships? I think if he keeps up the consistency in the near future, we could maybe actually start talking about the greatest of all time at that point. Congrats again, Robogus!
But let's be real, the true story of this tournament was that abomination of a game 1 between Maru and Scarlett
Edit: With "GOAT" I obviously mean in SC2, worded that slightly poorly
I think the beauty (and misery) of the GOAT debates is how many different ways you can go with criteria. INnoVation definitely has the "Kareem Abdul-Jabaar" case for being called the GOAT, in terms of having unmatched longevity, insane compiled statistics, and an incredible championship resume. Yet, I get the feeling that like Kareem, INnoVation's lack of mass-appeal and disinterest in public image will see many award the GOAT title to a more "Jordan"-esque entity who has the power of narrative and mythology behind him.
In hockey terms Inno is like Jaromir Jagr (or Mr. Hockey). The Paramount of consistency containing some important peaks and all time records. In flashiness (pun intended) there may be more Lemieux'esque players around, at least if limiting time frame of perspection.
General note to that GOAT discussion. Sometimes it feels that people doesn't even do anything else then seeking those GOATs, chats are full of (often low quality) debates in a hyperbolic search of 'next Gretzky' and what is most alarming and frustrating, typical 'discussions' tend to heavily discount the past, even relatively recent past. One day, one bad game and the hero transforms to villain and pariah, next day and same guy is heralded again to the stratospheric heights of the eternal glory, often accompanied with insane drive to over-exaggerate a minor differences in everything possible to make a gap to those others 'mere mortals' look bigger than it really is: rigidly subjective black-or-white thinking is necessity in that process, but always there must be that one (even if objectively there would be several fulfilling the criteria)...
Part of the consideration someone to be GOAT contains some aspect of longevity, it contains also high level of consistency, it requires peak performances and glorious wins, also some level of domination over peers of an era, record breaking achievements. One part of the status of GOAT is that the true GOAT seems to be someway above all of that shortsighted hyperbolic yes-no-yes-no-yes-no... argumentation. Important part of it is also widespread respect among peers.
In SC2 terms InnoVation has every single one of these attributes, and if there can be pointed out the GOAT player at all in SC2, then InnoVation is obvious choice for the first to be pointed out. IMHO.
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
He beat him, yes, but the last three matches have been razor thin either way. Demolish is not an appropriate word to describe this. Budding rivalry would be better.
It should be noted that Serral was playing sick all week too. Not an opinion he said so himself. And he still pushed Inno to 7 games.
Hey, side note guys: the ASL Finals VOD from yesterday isn’t available due to copyright infringement claim? 😱
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
He beat him, yes, but the last three matches have been razor thin either way. Demolish is not an appropriate word to describe this. Budding rivalry would be better.
It should be noted that Serral was playing sick all week too. Not an opinion he said so himself. And he still pushed Inno to 7 games.
Hey, side note guys: the ASL Finals VOD from yesterday isn’t available due to copyright infringement claim? 😱
Well..it took 3 pages before we got one..which surprised me honestly. you heard it here first boys Inno unfair adv not sick..streak alive.
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
He beat him, yes, but the last three matches have been razor thin either way. Demolish is not an appropriate word to describe this. Budding rivalry would be better.
It should be noted that Serral was playing sick all week too. Not an opinion he said so himself. And he still pushed Inno to 7 games.
Hey, side note guys: the ASL Finals VOD from yesterday isn’t available due to copyright infringement claim? 😱
Well..it took 3 pages before we got one..which surprised me honestly. you heard it here first boys Inno unfair adv not sick..streak alive.
I’m not making excuses. Inno played better. But you can’t discount that either. Part of me is wondering if we didn’t just watch the top two players go at it. Right now I have Inno ranked above Serral but do you see anyone else close to either of them?
What I really want to see is the depth of the Circuit catch up to the depth of Korea. I mean right now we can’t predict the GSL but we are pretty sure who the top 4-8 foreign players are. I’d like it to be to the point where it’s at least a 50 50 chance. Other than Serral it feels right now about 80-20 Korea favored. And only a few players can even claim that much.
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
He beat him, yes, but the last three matches have been razor thin either way. Demolish is not an appropriate word to describe this. Budding rivalry would be better.
It should be noted that Serral was playing sick all week too. Not an opinion he said so himself. And he still pushed Inno to 7 games.
Hey, side note guys: the ASL Finals VOD from yesterday isn’t available due to copyright infringement claim? 😱
Well..it took 3 pages before we got one..which surprised me honestly. you heard it here first boys Inno unfair adv not sick..streak alive.
There was nothing unfair in that final. Serral lost to better player. If he was still suffering from sickness we all can be only thankful he even bothered to come to the tournament and managed play well enough.
If Serral was still sick/not in full health it makes some sense he was wearing three Ence-sponsored shirts, he had to then unwear when pressures began to mount. :D
There have been some 'lentsu' (seasonal flu-virus epidemic as we say in Finnish) around lately in Finland, and when suffering from it currently myself (some 2 weeks and counting) I can very well understand if that may have had some impact to Serral's overall performance. It's not excuse for the loss, but it would've been enough good excuse to skip whole tournament. Of course only if he had really that same virus.
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
He beat him, yes, but the last three matches have been razor thin either way. Demolish is not an appropriate word to describe this. Budding rivalry would be better.
It should be noted that Serral was playing sick all week too. Not an opinion he said so himself. And he still pushed Inno to 7 games.
Hey, side note guys: the ASL Finals VOD from yesterday isn’t available due to copyright infringement claim? 😱
Well..it took 3 pages before we got one..which surprised me honestly. you heard it here first boys Inno unfair adv not sick..streak alive.
The point is how Mariano choose to express his happiness in regard of Inno's victory; in a sea of polite and joyous "well played", "eternal champion" etc, we find him insulting Inno's opponent by saying Serral was "destroyed" and "mentally broken".
Such a language would be inappropriate even if the finals would have been a clean 4-0 sweep with Inno playing leagues above Serral and it becomes clearly offensive considering the series went to the full seven games(with Serral even winning the macro game, unlike it happened at IEM the last time they faced).
Mariano is becoming like Rodya, feeling the need to convince us the warped reality he perceives is indeed the truth.
Inno was the better player, but I'd say inno was closer to his peak performance than what I think serral can achieve with more practice, serral's ZvT just doesn't look as sharp has his other matchups, but we know he's capable of more, and I'm not even talking about about him being ill, just his raw potential.
On March 18 2019 10:24 Doko wrote: Inno was the better player, but I'd say inno was closer to his peak performance than what I think serral can achieve with more practice, serral's ZvT just doesn't look as sharp has his other matchups, but we know he's capable of more, and I'm not even talking about about him being ill, just his raw potential.
To be fair, there’s not a whole lot of quality ZvT practice in his region... Maybe he’ll be more motivated to try a GSL after this? One can hope 😉
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
He beat him, yes, but the last three matches have been razor thin either way. Demolish is not an appropriate word to describe this. Budding rivalry would be better.
It should be noted that Serral was playing sick all week too. Not an opinion he said so himself. And he still pushed Inno to 7 games.
Hey, side note guys: the ASL Finals VOD from yesterday isn’t available due to copyright infringement claim? 😱
Well..it took 3 pages before we got one..which surprised me honestly. you heard it here first boys Inno unfair adv not sick..streak alive.
The point is how Mariano choose to express his happiness in regard of Inno's victory; in a sea of polite and joyous "well played", "eternal champion" etc, we find him insulting Inno's opponent by saying Serral was "destroyed" and "mentally broken".
Such a language would be inappropriate even if the finals would have been a clean 4-0 sweep with Inno playing leagues above Serral and it becomes clearly offensive considering the series went to the full seven games(with Serral even winning the macro game, unlike it happened at IEM the last time they faced).
Mariano is becoming like Rodya, feeling the need to convince us the warped reality he perceives is indeed the truth.
Yah not upvoting his post..pretty obvious bait there...just downvoting any extra reasons..other than inno played out of his mind to earn the win. Obv was a super close tight series that could have went either way..anyone saying otherwise is just mad for some reason.
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
The only broken mentality here is yours, apparently.
Can we all just acknowledge that soO is the greatest player in the world? He was dominating Innovation over and over on the ladder the day of and night before the Inno vs Serral final. And he defeated Serral at IEM to go on and win that tournament.
On March 18 2019 12:54 NinjaNight wrote: Can we all just acknowledge that soO is the greatest player in the world? He was dominating Innovation over and over on the ladder the day of and night before the Inno vs Serral final. And he defeated Serral at IEM to go on and win that tournament.
Rogue, who defeated soO twice in GSL, is clearly the greatest player in the world.
I honestly don't think any other Terran could have defeated Serral in a Bo7 at this point. Innovation's style is perfectly suited to it. Amazing games.
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
He beat him, yes, but the last three matches have been razor thin either way. Demolish is not an appropriate word to describe this. Budding rivalry would be better.
It should be noted that Serral was playing sick all week too. Not an opinion he said so himself. And he still pushed Inno to 7 games.
Hey, side note guys: the ASL Finals VOD from yesterday isn’t available due to copyright infringement claim? 😱
Well..it took 3 pages before we got one..which surprised me honestly. you heard it here first boys Inno unfair adv not sick..streak alive.
There was nothing unfair in that final. Serral lost to better player. If he was still suffering from sickness we all can be only thankful he even bothered to come to the tournament and managed play well enough.
If Serral was still sick/not in full health it makes some sense he was wearing three Ence-sponsored shirts, he had to then unwear when pressures began to mount. :D
There have been some 'lentsu' (seasonal flu-virus epidemic as we say in Finnish) around lately in Finland, and when suffering from it currently myself (some 2 weeks and counting) I can very well understand if that may have had some impact to Serral's overall performance. It's not excuse for the loss, but it would've been enough good excuse to skip whole tournament. Of course only if he had really that same virus.
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
He beat him, yes, but the last three matches have been razor thin either way. Demolish is not an appropriate word to describe this. Budding rivalry would be better.
It should be noted that Serral was playing sick all week too. Not an opinion he said so himself. And he still pushed Inno to 7 games.
Hey, side note guys: the ASL Finals VOD from yesterday isn’t available due to copyright infringement claim? 😱
Well..it took 3 pages before we got one..which surprised me honestly. you heard it here first boys Inno unfair adv not sick..streak alive.
I’m not making excuses. Inno played better. But you can’t discount that either. Part of me is wondering if we didn’t just watch the top two players go at it. Right now I have Inno ranked above Serral but do you see anyone else close to either of them?
What I really want to see is the depth of the Circuit catch up to the depth of Korea. I mean right now we can’t predict the GSL but we are pretty sure who the top 4-8 foreign players are. I’d like it to be to the point where it’s at least a 50 50 chance. Other than Serral it feels right now about 80-20 Korea favored. And only a few players can even claim that much.
Close to either of them... Yes soO defeated both of them in IEM and GSL. And there are tons of players in Korea who can take down Serral and Inno.
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
He beat him, yes, but the last three matches have been razor thin either way. Demolish is not an appropriate word to describe this. Budding rivalry would be better.
It should be noted that Serral was playing sick all week too. Not an opinion he said so himself. And he still pushed Inno to 7 games.
Hey, side note guys: the ASL Finals VOD from yesterday isn’t available due to copyright infringement claim? 😱
Well..it took 3 pages before we got one..which surprised me honestly. you heard it here first boys Inno unfair adv not sick..streak alive.
I’m not making excuses. Inno played better. But you can’t discount that either. Part of me is wondering if we didn’t just watch the top two players go at it. Right now I have Inno ranked above Serral but do you see anyone else close to either of them?
What I really want to see is the depth of the Circuit catch up to the depth of Korea. I mean right now we can’t predict the GSL but we are pretty sure who the top 4-8 foreign players are. I’d like it to be to the point where it’s at least a 50 50 chance. Other than Serral it feels right now about 80-20 Korea favored. And only a few players can even claim that much.
Close to either of them... Yes soO defeated both of them in IEM and GSL. And there are tons of players in Korea who can take down Serral and Inno.
Tons seems like a stretch. Certainly there are a few that can beat Inno, and a few that can beat Serral, but both? soO is the only one to do that recently. At a guess, maybe you could add TY and Rogue. Nobody else though.
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
soO must be the best player in the world then. He has been dominating Innovation every time they play on ladder. Including matches on ladder the day of WESG finals before the tournament started.
Ladder huh?
Aligulac: Found 31 matches. Under these filters, INnoVation is 77–42 (64.71%) in games and 21–10 (67.74%) in matches against soO.
LOTV only also close to that number. So... Yeah, enough said.
On March 18 2019 15:36 ThunderJunk wrote: I honestly don't think any other Terran could have defeated Serral in a Bo7 at this point. Innovation's style is perfectly suited to it. Amazing games.
I don't think so. TY or Maru are capable. TY appears he still has the form from 2k18 and while Maru fallen off he is suffering mostly in TvT and his PvT is slightly worse. His TvZ should still be in top shape.
Great tournament, horrible production! I cannot phantom how a tournament with such a large prize pool is not able to provide better production value. Not only was the visual quality subpar, they played the entire grand final without fixing the game sound/music. It was like watching a hobby streamer cast a diamond tournament.
Still huge props to the organizers for providing us with such a large scale tournament, but they need to improve.
MEANT AS HONEST FEEDBACK. I got bored at the end of this tournament. i didnt watch scarlett v serral. i didnt watch scarlett vs maru. and i fast forwarded through serral vs innovation. The tourney production just wasnt very good, and i learned and hope everyone else learned..... GAME SOUNDS MATTER. It just gets boring without the game sounds. Congrats inno.
On March 18 2019 15:36 ThunderJunk wrote: I honestly don't think any other Terran could have defeated Serral in a Bo7 at this point. Innovation's style is perfectly suited to it. Amazing games.
Meanwhile INno isn't even doing that good against korean zergs. Dark smacked him in the wesg qualifier, he lost to Solar, Rogue, and Ragnarok at IEM, and even soO (who historically is weak in ZvT) beat him convincingly in GSL.
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
He beat him, yes, but the last three matches have been razor thin either way. Demolish is not an appropriate word to describe this. Budding rivalry would be better.
It should be noted that Serral was playing sick all week too. Not an opinion he said so himself. And he still pushed Inno to 7 games.
Hey, side note guys: the ASL Finals VOD from yesterday isn’t available due to copyright infringement claim? 😱
Well..it took 3 pages before we got one..which surprised me honestly. you heard it here first boys Inno unfair adv not sick..streak alive.
I’m not making excuses. Inno played better. But you can’t discount that either. Part of me is wondering if we didn’t just watch the top two players go at it. Right now I have Inno ranked above Serral but do you see anyone else close to either of them?
What I really want to see is the depth of the Circuit catch up to the depth of Korea. I mean right now we can’t predict the GSL but we are pretty sure who the top 4-8 foreign players are. I’d like it to be to the point where it’s at least a 50 50 chance. Other than Serral it feels right now about 80-20 Korea favored. And only a few players can even claim that much.
Close to either of them... Yes soO defeated both of them in IEM and GSL. And there are tons of players in Korea who can take down Serral and Inno.
Tons seems like a stretch. Certainly there are a few that can beat Inno, and a few that can beat Serral, but both? soO is the only one to do that recently. At a guess, maybe you could add TY and Rogue. Nobody else though.
Tbh only soO, Stats, or the terrans (INno, Maru, TY, Gumiho) would have much of a case to be Serral.
Many more could probably beat INno. It wouldn't be a suprise if any decent korean zerg or protoss did.
I'd still say Serral>INno in a PR. And soO should be above both of them.
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
He beat him, yes, but the last three matches have been razor thin either way. Demolish is not an appropriate word to describe this. Budding rivalry would be better.
It should be noted that Serral was playing sick all week too. Not an opinion he said so himself. And he still pushed Inno to 7 games.
Hey, side note guys: the ASL Finals VOD from yesterday isn’t available due to copyright infringement claim? 😱
Well..it took 3 pages before we got one..which surprised me honestly. you heard it here first boys Inno unfair adv not sick..streak alive.
I’m not making excuses. Inno played better. But you can’t discount that either. Part of me is wondering if we didn’t just watch the top two players go at it. Right now I have Inno ranked above Serral but do you see anyone else close to either of them?
What I really want to see is the depth of the Circuit catch up to the depth of Korea. I mean right now we can’t predict the GSL but we are pretty sure who the top 4-8 foreign players are. I’d like it to be to the point where it’s at least a 50 50 chance. Other than Serral it feels right now about 80-20 Korea favored. And only a few players can even claim that much.
Close to either of them... Yes soO defeated both of them in IEM and GSL. And there are tons of players in Korea who can take down Serral and Inno.
Tons seems like a stretch. Certainly there are a few that can beat Inno, and a few that can beat Serral, but both? soO is the only one to do that recently. At a guess, maybe you could add TY and Rogue. Nobody else though.
Tbh only soO, Stats, or the terrans (INno, Maru, TY, Gumiho) would have much of a case to be Serral.
Many more could probably beat INno. It wouldn't be a suprise if any decent korean zerg or protoss did.
I'd still say Serral>INno in a PR. And soO should be above both of them.
Isn't Inno in an all Protoss group in GSL? Curious to see if he can defend the UWC Title
First seeing Inno take Serral in the IEM match that "had no meaning & Serral wasn't even trying"
and then to see the same thing happen in the WESG says to me Serral seriously need to work at his lategame ZvT and he's not going to get that in Europe/NA.
Congrats to Inno and hope Serral can learn from this experience.
On March 19 2019 02:22 DreamlnCode wrote: First seeing Inno take Serral in the IEM match that "had no meaning & Serral wasn't even trying"
and then to see the same thing happen in the WESG says to me Serral seriously need to work at his lategame ZvT and he's not going to get that in Europe/NA.
Congrats to Inno and hope Serral can learn from this experience.
Hmm, actually the longest game played at WESG was won by Serral.
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
soO must be the best player in the world then. He has been dominating Innovation every time they play on ladder. Including matches on ladder the day of WESG finals before the tournament started.
Ladder huh?
Aligulac: Found 31 matches. Under these filters, INnoVation is 77–42 (64.71%) in games and 21–10 (67.74%) in matches against soO.
LOTV only also close to that number. So... Yeah, enough said.
That's irrelevant because soO has clearly ascended to a new level never seen before. He defeated Serral and went on to break his 2nd place curse and then proceeded to crush Innovation on ladder. Expect those records to reverse in soO's favor now.
On March 18 2019 05:01 Bagration wrote: Innovation's longevity has been insane - he's been playing at a high level since 2012, and still doesn't seem to be slowing down. He's still only 25, so he's not that old yet, and hasn't had a major injury that has limited his play (knocks on wood)
Meanwhile, we've seen so many legends drop off due to age / injuries: Mvp Nestea MMA MC Taeja ...
Probably doesn't hurt that he's the "second laziest, after only scarlett" according to the chinese volunteer's blog posted on here just a bit back
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
soO must be the best player in the world then. He has been dominating Innovation every time they play on ladder. Including matches on ladder the day of WESG finals before the tournament started.
Ladder huh?
Aligulac: Found 31 matches. Under these filters, INnoVation is 77–42 (64.71%) in games and 21–10 (67.74%) in matches against soO.
LOTV only also close to that number. So... Yeah, enough said.
That's irrelevant because soO has clearly ascended to a new level never seen before. He defeated Serral and went on to break his 2nd place curse and then proceeded to crush Innovation on ladder. Expect those records to reverse in soO's favor now.
Next step was losing in GSL ro16 as expected actually
On March 19 2019 02:22 DreamlnCode wrote: First seeing Inno take Serral in the IEM match that "had no meaning & Serral wasn't even trying"
and then to see the same thing happen in the WESG says to me Serral seriously need to work at his lategame ZvT and he's not going to get that in Europe/NA.
Congrats to Inno and hope Serral can learn from this experience.
Hmm, actually the longest game played at WESG was won by Serral.
On March 19 2019 02:22 DreamlnCode wrote: First seeing Inno take Serral in the IEM match that "had no meaning & Serral wasn't even trying"
and then to see the same thing happen in the WESG says to me Serral seriously need to work at his lategame ZvT and he's not going to get that in Europe/NA.
Congrats to Inno and hope Serral can learn from this experience.
Hmm, actually the longest game played at WESG was won by Serral.
?
I think thats his way of saying Serrals lategame is good..which it clearly is by any standard.. it did appear at times though that he was attempting to avoid it with Innovation. For all that talk about how Nukes were going to be a problem with Chinese game sound he handled them pretty perfectly in game 6..so unsure why that might be.
On March 19 2019 02:22 DreamlnCode wrote: First seeing Inno take Serral in the IEM match that "had no meaning & Serral wasn't even trying"
and then to see the same thing happen in the WESG says to me Serral seriously need to work at his lategame ZvT and he's not going to get that in Europe/NA.
Congrats to Inno and hope Serral can learn from this experience.
Hmm, actually the longest game played at WESG was won by Serral.
?
I think thats his way of saying Serrals lategame is good..which it clearly is by any standard.. it did appear at times though that he was attempting to avoid it with Innovation.
Yeh I just wanted to be sure. the basic point I was making is that foreign Terrans arn't going to give him the training he needs for that specific match up (ZvT) late game.
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
soO must be the best player in the world then. He has been dominating Innovation every time they play on ladder. Including matches on ladder the day of WESG finals before the tournament started.
Ladder huh?
Aligulac: Found 31 matches. Under these filters, INnoVation is 77–42 (64.71%) in games and 21–10 (67.74%) in matches against soO.
LOTV only also close to that number. So... Yeah, enough said.
That's irrelevant because soO has clearly ascended to a new level never seen before. He defeated Serral and went on to break his 2nd place curse and then proceeded to crush Innovation on ladder. Expect those records to reverse in soO's favor now.
Next step was losing in GSL ro16 as expected actually
Haha in all seriousness though - he's not lying about soO's ladder performance - Maru and Inno both were getting agitated in the games and he ran a disgusting map score all said in done - not sure about prior to literally last week though - but his ZvT looked unreal.
On March 19 2019 02:22 DreamlnCode wrote: First seeing Inno take Serral in the IEM match that "had no meaning & Serral wasn't even trying"
and then to see the same thing happen in the WESG says to me Serral seriously need to work at his lategame ZvT and he's not going to get that in Europe/NA.
Congrats to Inno and hope Serral can learn from this experience.
Serral won the only long macro game between the 2 of them in the finals, most of the games were cheese. Did you watch the finals or are you just guessing how the games went and drawing conclusions?
OT: congrats to innovation. If Serral was to lose to either maru or inno, I wanted it to be to inno. Innovation played great and I hope to see Serral come to the next international event stronger. So far this year, he looks solid, but he no longer feels immortal.
On March 19 2019 02:22 DreamlnCode wrote: First seeing Inno take Serral in the IEM match that "had no meaning & Serral wasn't even trying"
and then to see the same thing happen in the WESG says to me Serral seriously need to work at his lategame ZvT and he's not going to get that in Europe/NA.
Congrats to Inno and hope Serral can learn from this experience.
Hmm, actually the longest game played at WESG was won by Serral.
?
I think thats his way of saying Serrals lategame is good..which it clearly is by any standard.. it did appear at times though that he was attempting to avoid it with Innovation.
Yeh I just wanted to be sure. the basic point I was making is that foreign Terrans arn't going to give him the training he needs for that specific match up (ZvT) late game.
Ya this is very clear - he did apparently run a ladder account up very high MMR on Korea though I would guess ZvT was his lowest winrate though- it's actually a scary thought thinking of how good he might be if practiced regularly with horsemen. There are other great Z/P on Eu (Lambo/Namshar/Nerchio/Showtime/Neeb plays a lot on EU) but really Uthermal and Gabe is all you get there - they are both really good but Maru/TY/Inno clearly a different level.
On March 19 2019 02:22 DreamlnCode wrote: First seeing Inno take Serral in the IEM match that "had no meaning & Serral wasn't even trying"
and then to see the same thing happen in the WESG says to me Serral seriously need to work at his lategame ZvT and he's not going to get that in Europe/NA.
Congrats to Inno and hope Serral can learn from this experience.
Serral won the only long macro game between the 2 of them in the finals, most of the games were cheese. Did you watch the finals or are you just guessing how the games went and drawing conclusions?
OT: congrats to innovation. If Serral was to lose to either maru or inno, I wanted it to be to inno. Innovation played great and I hope to see Serral come to the next international event stronger. So far this year, he looks solid, but he no longer feels immortal.
Nope also going on the Serral v Innovation IEM game too.
On March 19 2019 02:22 DreamlnCode wrote: First seeing Inno take Serral in the IEM match that "had no meaning & Serral wasn't even trying"
and then to see the same thing happen in the WESG says to me Serral seriously need to work at his lategame ZvT and he's not going to get that in Europe/NA.
Congrats to Inno and hope Serral can learn from this experience.
Serral won the only long macro game between the 2 of them in the finals, most of the games were cheese. Did you watch the finals or are you just guessing how the games went and drawing conclusions?
OT: congrats to innovation. If Serral was to lose to either maru or inno, I wanted it to be to inno. Innovation played great and I hope to see Serral come to the next international event stronger. So far this year, he looks solid, but he no longer feels immortal.
To be fair though - Serral won the only game that went to "super" late game - which makes sense.
Serral made the decision in multiple games to not allow for that situation to occur - if I had to guess I think he was probably uncomfortable in the late mid to early late game part of the game vs Inno - which is where he took most of his advantage in the games he won. Hardest part of the game for Z in the m.u. right now in my opinion -
On March 19 2019 02:22 DreamlnCode wrote: First seeing Inno take Serral in the IEM match that "had no meaning & Serral wasn't even trying"
and then to see the same thing happen in the WESG says to me Serral seriously need to work at his lategame ZvT and he's not going to get that in Europe/NA.
Congrats to Inno and hope Serral can learn from this experience.
Serral won the only long macro game between the 2 of them in the finals, most of the games were cheese. Did you watch the finals or are you just guessing how the games went and drawing conclusions?
OT: congrats to innovation. If Serral was to lose to either maru or inno, I wanted it to be to inno. Innovation played great and I hope to see Serral come to the next international event stronger. So far this year, he looks solid, but he no longer feels immortal.
To be fair though - Serral won the only game that went to "super" late game - which makes sense.
Serral made the decision in multiple games to not allow for that situation to occur - if I had to guess I think he was probably uncomfortable in the late mid to early late game part of the game vs Inno - which is where he took most of his advantage in the games he won. Hardest part of the game for Z in the m.u. right now in my opinion -
I can agree to that. Game 5 and game 7 both ended in the late stages of the mid game/the early stages of the late game which looked to be when innovation looked strongest and serral looked to be on his back foot.
On March 19 2019 02:22 DreamlnCode wrote: First seeing Inno take Serral in the IEM match that "had no meaning & Serral wasn't even trying"
and then to see the same thing happen in the WESG says to me Serral seriously need to work at his lategame ZvT and he's not going to get that in Europe/NA.
Congrats to Inno and hope Serral can learn from this experience.
Serral won the only long macro game between the 2 of them in the finals, most of the games were cheese. Did you watch the finals or are you just guessing how the games went and drawing conclusions?
OT: congrats to innovation. If Serral was to lose to either maru or inno, I wanted it to be to inno. Innovation played great and I hope to see Serral come to the next international event stronger. So far this year, he looks solid, but he no longer feels immortal.
To be fair though - Serral won the only game that went to "super" late game - which makes sense.
Serral made the decision in multiple games to not allow for that situation to occur - if I had to guess I think he was probably uncomfortable in the late mid to early late game part of the game vs Inno - which is where he took most of his advantage in the games he won. Hardest part of the game for Z in the m.u. right now in my opinion -
I can agree to that. Game 5 and game 7 both ended in the late stages of the mid game/the early stages of the late game which looked to be when innovation looked strongest and serral looked to be on his back foot.
Those games can't be boxed up so neatly. Both Serral and Inno won the games where they got early advantages.
Game 5: Inno made an early tank push that denied mining and even beat back the first attempt by Serral to clean it up. He snowballed that advantage with later pushes, and while Serral did manage to tech up to BL, Inno was already on top of his bases by that point and he had no economy to keep fighting.
Game 6: Serral deflected the 2/1/1 with minimal damage and built a strong eco lead. He tried to close it out with a BL push but Inno made a sick hold and Serral had to fall back on his stronger economy to eventually starve Inno out.
Game 7: Inno went for a semi-allin tank push that took down Serral's third and never looked back from there. Serral went for a desperation spire but the mutas didn't get enough done and Inno slow pushed until Serral was forced to fight or die. He fought and died.
Point being that you can't just divide the games up into stages and say Serral has an advantage here or Inno is favored there. Momentum matters.
On March 19 2019 02:22 DreamlnCode wrote: First seeing Inno take Serral in the IEM match that "had no meaning & Serral wasn't even trying"
and then to see the same thing happen in the WESG says to me Serral seriously need to work at his lategame ZvT and he's not going to get that in Europe/NA.
Congrats to Inno and hope Serral can learn from this experience.
Serral won the only long macro game between the 2 of them in the finals, most of the games were cheese. Did you watch the finals or are you just guessing how the games went and drawing conclusions?
OT: congrats to innovation. If Serral was to lose to either maru or inno, I wanted it to be to inno. Innovation played great and I hope to see Serral come to the next international event stronger. So far this year, he looks solid, but he no longer feels immortal.
To be fair though - Serral won the only game that went to "super" late game - which makes sense.
Serral made the decision in multiple games to not allow for that situation to occur - if I had to guess I think he was probably uncomfortable in the late mid to early late game part of the game vs Inno - which is where he took most of his advantage in the games he won. Hardest part of the game for Z in the m.u. right now in my opinion -
I can agree to that. Game 5 and game 7 both ended in the late stages of the mid game/the early stages of the late game which looked to be when innovation looked strongest and serral looked to be on his back foot.
Those games can't be boxed up so neatly. Both Serral and Inno won the games where they got early advantages.
Game 5: Inno made an early tank push that denied mining and even beat back the first attempt by Serral to clean it up. He snowballed that advantage with later pushes and while Serral did manage to tech up to BL, Inno was already on top of his bases by that point and he had no economy to keep fighting.
Game 6: Serral deflected the 2/1/1 with minimal damage and built a strong eco lead. He tried to close it out with a BL push but Inno managed a sick hold and Serral had to fall back on his stronger economy to eventually starve Inno out.
Game 7: Inno went for a semi-allin tank push that took down Serral's third and never looked back from there. Serral went for a desperation spire but the mutas didn't get enough done and Inno slow pushed until Serral was forced to fight or die. He fought and died.
Point being that you can't just divide the games up into stages and say Serral has an advantage here or Inno is favored there. Momentum matters.
Yeah, I guess I didn't think of that. I wish we got to see more games between the two of them. Hopefully, Serral will perform very well at GSL vs The World again so we can see a wide array of games between him and high level koreans again and come to a better conclusion about his general strengths and weaknesses.
On March 19 2019 02:22 DreamlnCode wrote: First seeing Inno take Serral in the IEM match that "had no meaning & Serral wasn't even trying"
and then to see the same thing happen in the WESG says to me Serral seriously need to work at his lategame ZvT and he's not going to get that in Europe/NA.
Congrats to Inno and hope Serral can learn from this experience.
Serral won the only long macro game between the 2 of them in the finals, most of the games were cheese. Did you watch the finals or are you just guessing how the games went and drawing conclusions?
OT: congrats to innovation. If Serral was to lose to either maru or inno, I wanted it to be to inno. Innovation played great and I hope to see Serral come to the next international event stronger. So far this year, he looks solid, but he no longer feels immortal.
To be fair though - Serral won the only game that went to "super" late game - which makes sense.
Serral made the decision in multiple games to not allow for that situation to occur - if I had to guess I think he was probably uncomfortable in the late mid to early late game part of the game vs Inno - which is where he took most of his advantage in the games he won. Hardest part of the game for Z in the m.u. right now in my opinion -
I can agree to that. Game 5 and game 7 both ended in the late stages of the mid game/the early stages of the late game which looked to be when innovation looked strongest and serral looked to be on his back foot.
Those games can't be boxed up so neatly. Both Serral and Inno won the games where they got early advantages.
Game 5: Inno made an early tank push that denied mining and even beat back the first attempt by Serral to clean it up. He snowballed that advantage with later pushes and while Serral did manage to tech up to BL, Inno was already on top of his bases by that point and he had no economy to keep fighting.
Game 6: Serral deflected the 2/1/1 with minimal damage and built a strong eco lead. He tried to close it out with a BL push but Inno managed a sick hold and Serral had to fall back on his stronger economy to eventually starve Inno out.
Game 7: Inno went for a semi-allin tank push that took down Serral's third and never looked back from there. Serral went for a desperation spire but the mutas didn't get enough done and Inno slow pushed until Serral was forced to fight or die. He fought and died.
Point being that you can't just divide the games up into stages and say Serral has an advantage here or Inno is favored there. Momentum matters.
Yeah, I guess I didn't think of that. I wish we got to see more games between the two of them. Hopefully, Serral will perform very well at GSL vs The World again so we can see a wide array of games between him and high level koreans again and come to a better conclusion about his general strengths and weaknesses.
here is hoping that dude should just abandon all the reasons behind and come to qualify gsl lIke other foreigners already
Serral is not going to participate in GSL at least until he has his spot in Blizzcon secured through WCS points. It would be stupid to do it any other way.
It was fun to listen to this series on twitch audio only while I was working. Can't wait to watch game 5 and 6. Both Innovation and Serral deserve major applause for continuing to be so dominant while having somewhat non flashy play.
On March 19 2019 07:29 Xamo wrote: Serral is not going to participate in GSL at least until he has his spot in Blizzcon secured through WCS points. It would be stupid to do it any other way.
I think a few months ago he said he's not really interested in competing in GSL. So I'm not sure that it's ever going to happen.
On March 19 2019 07:29 Xamo wrote: Serral is not going to participate in GSL at least until he has his spot in Blizzcon secured through WCS points. It would be stupid to do it any other way.
I think a few months ago he said he's not really interested in competing in GSL. So I'm not sure that it's ever going to happen.
He didn't exactly said that. I'm not expecting him to play Code S this year, in any of case.
Serral would need at least an invitation to the Ro32. Not because I think he couldn't qualify but because it would probably mean another 3 weeks in Korea to play qualifier.
And GSL has never given out random invites, they won't start now
On March 19 2019 18:27 Harris1st wrote: Serral would need at least an invitation to the Ro32. Not because I think he couldn't qualify but because it would probably mean another 3 weeks in Korea to play qualifier.
And GSL has never given out random invites, they won't start now
IIRC NaNiwa & Stephano were directly seeded.
But since Code S is the regional league of Korea while WCS is locked regional league of foreigners it would be fine if at least some rules of protection would apply. e.g. a Korean citizen with approprate visa have to live in the region 30 days prior to the competition, how about we give Serral the same treatment?
But since Code S is the regional league of Korea while WCS is locked regional league of foreigners it would be fine if at least some rules of protection would apply. e.g. a Korean citizen with approprate visa have to live in the region 30 days prior to the competition, how about we give Serral the same treatment?
Edit> I honestly hope there will be no seeds.
No need for baiting. Fine with me. And that's the reason Serral will probably never play GSL
On March 19 2019 18:27 Harris1st wrote: Serral would need at least an invitation to the Ro32. Not because I think he couldn't qualify but because it would probably mean another 3 weeks in Korea to play qualifier.
And GSL has never given out random invites, they won't start now
IIRC NaNiwa & Stephano were directly seeded.
But since Code S is the regional league of Korea while WCS is locked regional league of foreigners it would be fine if at least some rules of protection would apply. e.g. a Korean citizen with approprate visa have to live in the region 30 days prior to the competition, how about we give Serral the same treatment?
Edit> I honestly hope there will be no seeds.
GSL used to reserve a couple of direct spots to code S for foreigners in the past. Not sure if this stopped in WoL or HoTS but it definitely wasn't the case anymore after 2013.
A seed for Serral could be justified by either him being BlizzCon Champion, ike at IEM and WESG(even if Code S doesn't even grant a spot to its winner; that's a bit silly in my opinion. On a side note, who would get to swap people during group selection if the winner did not qualiry? I don't think it has ever happened) or because he attracts audience: just look at IEM, Serral vs soO registered the peak of viewers(or was very close) despite being played in the ro8.
It would be unlikely for Serral to be eliminated in Code A, it almost never happens that top koreans don't qualify for Code S nowadays.
In any of case, Code S would still force Serral to spend three months in Korea and that's more than he would like to live abroad if he stays true to what he said last year, he could very well change his mind.
On March 19 2019 18:27 Harris1st wrote: Serral would need at least an invitation to the Ro32. Not because I think he couldn't qualify but because it would probably mean another 3 weeks in Korea to play qualifier.
And GSL has never given out random invites, they won't start now
IIRC NaNiwa & Stephano were directly seeded.
But since Code S is the regional league of Korea while WCS is locked regional league of foreigners it would be fine if at least some rules of protection would apply. e.g. a Korean citizen with approprate visa have to live in the region 30 days prior to the competition, how about we give Serral the same treatment?
Edit> I honestly hope there will be no seeds.
GSL used to reserve a couple of direct spots to code S for foreigners in the past. Not sure if this stopped in WoL or HoTS but it definitely wasn't the case anymore after 2013.
A seed for Serral could be justified by either him being BlizzCon Champion, ike at IEM and WESG(even if Code S doesn't even grant a spot to its winner; that's a bit silly in my opinion. On a side note, who would get to swap people during group selection if the winner did not qualiry? I don't think it has ever happened) or because he attracts audience: just look at IEM, Serral vs soO registered the peak of viewers(or was very close) despite being played in the ro8.
It would be unlikely for Serral to be eliminated in Code A, it almost never happens that top koreans don't qualify for Code S nowadays.
In any of case, Code S would still force Serral to spend three months in Korea and that's more than he would like to live abroad if he stays true to what he said last year, he could very well change his mind.
Where does Code S rules state you have to live in the Korea for the whole time? You can fly in, play the group, fly out. Fly in, play the group, fly out. Fly in, play the RO8, fly out. Sure, it's not cheap, but IIRC you don't have to BE physicially in Korea. Even for the qualifiers(edit> I mean you can fly in)
They should immediately send invitation to InnoVation to join Starcraft.fi V9, grant him status of 'Honorary Finn' (effective immediately upon arrival), pay his running day-to-day expenses during the trip, and respectfully hope he would off-race as Zerg in the tournament. Its Protoss' turn for off-racing Serral this year. Let the Finnish pragmatism override all unnescessary bureaucracy, definitions, restrictions, and real or imaginary obstacles. If Inno bring some of his Korean friends with him, all the better, I'm sure Finnish scene can someway accomodate also other dudes, for example soO, Maru, Stats... and Scarlett is almost Finn anyway, so she too...
Nobody would consider it bad thing if 'Finnish Championship 2019' would go Off-racing Korean.
This newborn rivalry must be supported by all means available.
On March 19 2019 18:27 Harris1st wrote: Serral would need at least an invitation to the Ro32. Not because I think he couldn't qualify but because it would probably mean another 3 weeks in Korea to play qualifier.
And GSL has never given out random invites, they won't start now
IIRC NaNiwa & Stephano were directly seeded.
But since Code S is the regional league of Korea while WCS is locked regional league of foreigners it would be fine if at least some rules of protection would apply. e.g. a Korean citizen with approprate visa have to live in the region 30 days prior to the competition, how about we give Serral the same treatment?
Edit> I honestly hope there will be no seeds.
GSL used to reserve a couple of direct spots to code S for foreigners in the past. Not sure if this stopped in WoL or HoTS but it definitely wasn't the case anymore after 2013.
A seed for Serral could be justified by either him being BlizzCon Champion, ike at IEM and WESG(even if Code S doesn't even grant a spot to its winner; that's a bit silly in my opinion. On a side note, who would get to swap people during group selection if the winner did not qualiry? I don't think it has ever happened) or because he attracts audience: just look at IEM, Serral vs soO registered the peak of viewers(or was very close) despite being played in the ro8.
It would be unlikely for Serral to be eliminated in Code A, it almost never happens that top koreans don't qualify for Code S nowadays.
In any of case, Code S would still force Serral to spend three months in Korea and that's more than he would like to live abroad if he stays true to what he said last year, he could very well change his mind.
Where does Code S rules state you have to live in the Korea for the whole time? You can fly in, play the group, fly out. Fly in, play the group, fly out. Fly in, play the RO8, fly out. Sure, it's not cheap, but IIRC you don't have to BE physicially in Korea. Even for the qualifiers(edit> I mean you can fly in)
Well, technically you don't have to live in Korea in between, but you surely have to get there to play the matches What you are suggesting doesn't seem very practical as well as being expensive, you would be forced to fly in and out from three to five times during a Code S season(from qualifiers to finals, according to schedule of the most recent seasons); extremely stressful and the jet lag would have massive effects, I would personally prefer to reside there(can't speak for Serral, of course).
It's already impossible for Serral to play Code S Season 2 this year as the qualifiers would happen right before WCS Winter offline finals(assuming he doesn't go out in the last group phase by placing 7th or 8th, wouldn't count on it), not to mention he will probably like to rest a bit after the last wave of international tournaments.
Serral could, however, decide to go for Season 3 as there aren't tournaments in June and he would have to go to Korea in August for GSL vs the World(he'd skip Kiev 2 in July and Montreal in September but that wouldn't be a problem had he won either WCS Winter or Kiev 1); let's see what he decides to do.
On March 19 2019 21:50 Harris1st wrote: You forget about HomeStoryCup which will surely take place in June because otherwise those who are addicted will surely die in that dry period!
Hahah, nice. Unless it's in the very last days of June it should not be a problem, Code S S3 starts the 3rd of July.
I'd love to see Serral in GSL competing vs. top Koreans days in days out just like a next guy, but considering what seems to be Serral's approach to his career and future by his own words, it doesn't seem very probable at least this year. As far it goes to personal characteristics of Serral, its certain that there are no any kind 'Elitist' mindset in his personality. It all revolve around pragmatic and circumstantial things, he is basing his decisions. Serral seems to me one of the most humble guy (and nerdiest - in good sense of word) in the top level SC2, and it seems he isn't yet fully formed a plan or schedule what he is going to do longer term in his life (going to university seems to his plan of sort). Achieving only some economic security for the future career decisions doesn't particularly support moving to Korea currently, odds for making some serious bucks (or Euros) are better for him in the foreign circuit, tho I honestly think that this aspect isn't uppermost driving motive for him - at least anymore.
Certainly it isn't about alleged, ridiculous claim about "scare of GSL" and possible extra challenge it might bring as everything he has done since after the end of school and going full time professional proves otherwise.
(Mandatory conscription in Finland won't be unsurmountable obstacle for him until the year of his 28yo anniversary, and if/when he ask its postponing (if I'm correct, 3 years at max per application), that will be nearly automatically granted, and when he then have to go to the army by max age set by law, there will be likely possibility for him to join Sport corps that allow rather high flexibility considering active sporting career simultaneously. So, for Serral the army won't likely form the question of the end of career.)
And... from perspective of 'growing the sport' it is only good if he continue in foreign circuit little bit longer, IMO.
On March 19 2019 22:25 UnLarva wrote: I'd love to see Serral in GSL competing vs. top Koreans days in days out just like a next guy, but considering what seems to be Serral's approach to his career and future by his own words, it doesn't seem very probable at least this year. As far it goes to personal characteristics of Serral, its certain that there are no any kind 'Elitist' mindset in his personality. It all revolve around pragmatic and circumstantial things, he is basing his decisions. Serral seems to me one of the most humble guy (and nerdiest - in good sense of word) in the top level SC2, and it seems he isn't yet fully formed a plan or schedule what he is going to do longer term in his life (going to university seems to his plan of sort). Achieving only some economic security for the future career decisions doesn't particularly support moving to Korea currently, odds for making some serious bucks (or Euros) are better for him in the foreign circuit, tho I honestly think that this aspect isn't uppermost driving motive for him - at least anymore.
Certainly it isn't about alleged, ridiculous claim about "scare of GSL" and possible extra challenge it might bring as everything he has done since after the end of school and going full time professional proves otherwise.
(Mandatory conscription in Finland won't be unsurmountable obstacle for him until the year of his 28yo anniversary, and if/when he ask its postponing (if I'm correct, 3 years at max per application), that will be nearly automatically granted, and when he then have to go to the army by max age set by law, there will be likely possibility for him to join Sport corps that allow rather high flexibility considering active sporting career simultaneously. So, for Serral the army won't likely form the question of the end of career.)
And... from perspective of 'growing the sport' it is only good if he continue in foreign circuit little bit longer, IMO.
Uh, oh. Rant. Hoping next games starting soon.
From what I have seen, Serral seems to really love his family and enjoy his current lifestyle, valuing them above money. I suspect Ence's economical offer wasn't as high as the one some Chinese teams would have granted him(I am not certain of that, to be honest), yet he respected the team he grew in and he felt himself at ease with; similarly, now that he earned almost 650k in prize, I don't think economic security will be the highest priority for Serral.
Even disregarding the opinions prophets of doom according tho whom Sc2 is going to die out soon, I am quite certain sc2 will cease being the premier RTS before Serral would have reached the end of his career so I wouldn't worry about that.
Is it implied Serral will play Protoss in 4V.Fi? I mean, I know he played random then Terran as offrace already, but did he say he will? That would be a real challenge, especially against Zhugeliang.
@Xain0n: That comment about Serral playing Protoss in SC2.fi V9 was just random throw from me, but I don't think it is impossible to happen per se. Its clear that Serral is in his own tier among Finnish players, thus I expect he'll continue off-racing in that tournament context only for competitive reasons. Would be nice to see him playing Protoss this year. (Serral! Make it happen!)
As far as I can recon Serral's and Ence's relation and contractual things are healthy, and unproblematic.
On March 19 2019 18:27 Harris1st wrote: Serral would need at least an invitation to the Ro32. Not because I think he couldn't qualify but because it would probably mean another 3 weeks in Korea to play qualifier.
And GSL has never given out random invites, they won't start now
IIRC NaNiwa & Stephano were directly seeded.
But since Code S is the regional league of Korea while WCS is locked regional league of foreigners it would be fine if at least some rules of protection would apply. e.g. a Korean citizen with approprate visa have to live in the region 30 days prior to the competition, how about we give Serral the same treatment?
Edit> I honestly hope there will be no seeds.
GSL used to reserve a couple of direct spots to code S for foreigners in the past. Not sure if this stopped in WoL or HoTS but it definitely wasn't the case anymore after 2013.
A seed for Serral could be justified by either him being BlizzCon Champion, ike at IEM and WESG(even if Code S doesn't even grant a spot to its winner; that's a bit silly in my opinion. On a side note, who would get to swap people during group selection if the winner did not qualiry? I don't think it has ever happened) or because he attracts audience: just look at IEM, Serral vs soO registered the peak of viewers(or was very close) despite being played in the ro8.
It would be unlikely for Serral to be eliminated in Code A, it almost never happens that top koreans don't qualify for Code S nowadays.
In any of case, Code S would still force Serral to spend three months in Korea and that's more than he would like to live abroad if he stays true to what he said last year, he could very well change his mind.
Where does Code S rules state you have to live in the Korea for the whole time? You can fly in, play the group, fly out. Fly in, play the group, fly out. Fly in, play the RO8, fly out. Sure, it's not cheap, but IIRC you don't have to BE physicially in Korea. Even for the qualifiers(edit> I mean you can fly in)
Well, technically you don't have to live in Korea in between, but you surely have to get there to play the matches What you are suggesting doesn't seem very practical as well as being expensive, you would be forced to fly in and out from three to five times during a Code S season(from qualifiers to finals, according to schedule of the most recent seasons); extremely stressful and the jet lag would have massive effects, I would personally prefer to reside there(can't speak for Serral, of course).
It's already impossible for Serral to play Code S Season 2 this year as the qualifiers would happen right before WCS Winter offline finals(assuming he doesn't go out in the last group phase by placing 7th or 8th, wouldn't count on it), not to mention he will probably like to rest a bit after the last wave of international tournaments.
Serral could, however, decide to go for Season 3 as there aren't tournaments in June and he would have to go to Korea in August for GSL vs the World(he'd skip Kiev 2 in July and Montreal in September but that wouldn't be a problem had he won either WCS Winter or Kiev 1); let's see what he decides to do.
It's funny, because when fans say about jet lag for Koreans it's just an excuse But yeah, it would be a horrible experience, no denying there.
The point was it can be done even without living there. Serral most probably won't do it, I'm fine with that, WCS is a safe pay check for him and he can stay at home, I would do the same personally. I hate travelling
Really well played by Inno, gonna be interesting to see what he does in GSL this week. If he qualifies, then there shouldnt be much discussion about being nr 1 on the next PR. I kinda hope he does, it's always weird when the supposed best player/ most recent champion gets knocked out in the group stages of the next major tournament.
As for Serral playing in GSL, this has been discusses so many times... I wouldnt do it in his place, unless my organization/sponsors were really pushing it.
Ofc I would like him to go and compete there, I just dont think it makes sense for him, it's a risky investment of money, time etc, and if you're not the kind of personality to enjoy yourself in that kind of an environment, than it's not that great of a move.
On March 18 2019 08:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: GJ Inno. Demolished Serral 2 times is a row now. Actually I think he might have broken him mentally. Even though Inno was playing sloppy, Serral was still scared as hell to play macro against him. Truly the current SC2 Goat 🐐
soO must be the best player in the world then. He has been dominating Innovation every time they play on ladder. Including matches on ladder the day of WESG finals before the tournament started.
Ladder huh?
Aligulac: Found 31 matches. Under these filters, INnoVation is 77–42 (64.71%) in games and 21–10 (67.74%) in matches against soO.
LOTV only also close to that number. So... Yeah, enough said.
That's irrelevant because soO has clearly ascended to a new level never seen before. He defeated Serral and went on to break his 2nd place curse and then proceeded to crush Innovation on ladder. Expect those records to reverse in soO's favor now.
Next step was losing in GSL ro16 as expected actually
Haha in all seriousness though - he's not lying about soO's ladder performance - Maru and Inno both were getting agitated in the games and he ran a disgusting map score all said in done - not sure about prior to literally last week though - but his ZvT looked unreal.
Yea soO has just been incredible lately, no doubt.
On March 19 2019 18:27 Harris1st wrote: Serral would need at least an invitation to the Ro32. Not because I think he couldn't qualify but because it would probably mean another 3 weeks in Korea to play qualifier.
And GSL has never given out random invites, they won't start now
IIRC NaNiwa & Stephano were directly seeded.
But since Code S is the regional league of Korea while WCS is locked regional league of foreigners it would be fine if at least some rules of protection would apply. e.g. a Korean citizen with approprate visa have to live in the region 30 days prior to the competition, how about we give Serral the same treatment?
Edit> I honestly hope there will be no seeds.
GSL used to reserve a couple of direct spots to code S for foreigners in the past. Not sure if this stopped in WoL or HoTS but it definitely wasn't the case anymore after 2013.
A seed for Serral could be justified by either him being BlizzCon Champion, ike at IEM and WESG(even if Code S doesn't even grant a spot to its winner; that's a bit silly in my opinion. On a side note, who would get to swap people during group selection if the winner did not qualiry? I don't think it has ever happened) or because he attracts audience: just look at IEM, Serral vs soO registered the peak of viewers(or was very close) despite being played in the ro8.
It would be unlikely for Serral to be eliminated in Code A, it almost never happens that top koreans don't qualify for Code S nowadays.
In any of case, Code S would still force Serral to spend three months in Korea and that's more than he would like to live abroad if he stays true to what he said last year, he could very well change his mind.
Where does Code S rules state you have to live in the Korea for the whole time? You can fly in, play the group, fly out. Fly in, play the group, fly out. Fly in, play the RO8, fly out. Sure, it's not cheap, but IIRC you don't have to BE physicially in Korea. Even for the qualifiers(edit> I mean you can fly in)
Well, technically you don't have to live in Korea in between, but you surely have to get there to play the matches What you are suggesting doesn't seem very practical as well as being expensive, you would be forced to fly in and out from three to five times during a Code S season(from qualifiers to finals, according to schedule of the most recent seasons); extremely stressful and the jet lag would have massive effects, I would personally prefer to reside there(can't speak for Serral, of course).
I don't think it's that much of a problem. Yea it's a little expensive but if you achieve the good results that you're relying on by choosing to compete in this tournament it's worth it. Extremely stressful? What? Imo flying is actually relaxing. Jet lag can be countered by simply arriving 1-2 weeks in advance and letting its effects wear off.
On March 19 2019 18:27 Harris1st wrote: Serral would need at least an invitation to the Ro32. Not because I think he couldn't qualify but because it would probably mean another 3 weeks in Korea to play qualifier.
And GSL has never given out random invites, they won't start now
They were doing that. E.g. Nerchio was offered a Code S seed (in 2012 I think?) but he turned it down to focus on his studies.
On March 19 2019 18:27 Harris1st wrote: Serral would need at least an invitation to the Ro32. Not because I think he couldn't qualify but because it would probably mean another 3 weeks in Korea to play qualifier.
And GSL has never given out random invites, they won't start now
IIRC NaNiwa & Stephano were directly seeded.
But since Code S is the regional league of Korea while WCS is locked regional league of foreigners it would be fine if at least some rules of protection would apply. e.g. a Korean citizen with approprate visa have to live in the region 30 days prior to the competition, how about we give Serral the same treatment?
Edit> I honestly hope there will be no seeds.
GSL used to reserve a couple of direct spots to code S for foreigners in the past. Not sure if this stopped in WoL or HoTS but it definitely wasn't the case anymore after 2013.
A seed for Serral could be justified by either him being BlizzCon Champion, ike at IEM and WESG(even if Code S doesn't even grant a spot to its winner; that's a bit silly in my opinion. On a side note, who would get to swap people during group selection if the winner did not qualiry? I don't think it has ever happened) or because he attracts audience: just look at IEM, Serral vs soO registered the peak of viewers(or was very close) despite being played in the ro8.
It would be unlikely for Serral to be eliminated in Code A, it almost never happens that top koreans don't qualify for Code S nowadays.
In any of case, Code S would still force Serral to spend three months in Korea and that's more than he would like to live abroad if he stays true to what he said last year, he could very well change his mind.
Where does Code S rules state you have to live in the Korea for the whole time? You can fly in, play the group, fly out. Fly in, play the group, fly out. Fly in, play the RO8, fly out. Sure, it's not cheap, but IIRC you don't have to BE physicially in Korea. Even for the qualifiers(edit> I mean you can fly in)
Well, technically you don't have to live in Korea in between, but you surely have to get there to play the matches What you are suggesting doesn't seem very practical as well as being expensive, you would be forced to fly in and out from three to five times during a Code S season(from qualifiers to finals, according to schedule of the most recent seasons); extremely stressful and the jet lag would have massive effects, I would personally prefer to reside there(can't speak for Serral, of course).
It's already impossible for Serral to play Code S Season 2 this year as the qualifiers would happen right before WCS Winter offline finals(assuming he doesn't go out in the last group phase by placing 7th or 8th, wouldn't count on it), not to mention he will probably like to rest a bit after the last wave of international tournaments.
Serral could, however, decide to go for Season 3 as there aren't tournaments in June and he would have to go to Korea in August for GSL vs the World(he'd skip Kiev 2 in July and Montreal in September but that wouldn't be a problem had he won either WCS Winter or Kiev 1); let's see what he decides to do.
It's funny, because when fans say about jet lag for Koreans it's just an excuse But yeah, it would be a horrible experience, no denying there.
The point was it can be done even without living there. Serral most probably won't do it, I'm fine with that, WCS is a safe pay check for him and he can stay at home, I would do the same personally. I hate travelling
It apparently takes more than ten hours to travel from Helsinki to Seoul, not considering that Serral doesn't live in Helsinki and that I assume at least three additional hours get lost embarking and disembarking. If we add that Korea is seven hours ahead of Finland, one entire day is needed for a single flight(on the other hand, flying back to Finland is much less of a problem due to favourable GMT).
How anyone, Korean or not, is affected by Jet Lag is a stricly personal affair; the effect might be over in a single day or last for a week, I don't know what is Serral's reaction; however, given the chanche, one would travel choosing a date that would allow him to rest appropriately before playing, so I am not speaking of in-game performance being affected. It's more about how it could impact his preparation, or worse how likely it is to induce stress.
Having to fly back and forth five times in three months wouldn't definitely be relaxing consideting the wasted time and the need to readjust every time to a considerably different Time Zone; it can be done but I fail to see how this would be a desiderable solution if there are other possibilities. I would personally stay in Korea three straight months.
WCS pays less than GSL but both are dwarfed by the amount of money international tournament grant in LoTV; Serral should win WCS Winter and both the Kiev weekenders to earn marginally more than he did in March.
Serral (or his dad) led wilderness tours would do good to a concentration levels of some GSL players. Would be worth to think about it. Forests and silence makes miracles in every arts. That can be back up'd by Finnish experience of few hundred years.
Finnish SC2 concept of Pornainen works.
Google "Burden of Dreams" by Nalle Hukkataival to understand what's it all about in Finnish terms. The mental set.
I just watched game 1 of the 3rd place match. How the fuck is there no more outrage about it? How do people just casually accept that Maru "forgot that terran buildings can fly"? He threw the game, he did that completely openly for 20 minutes, yet the only thing everyone is talking about is the Macsed "matchfixing"? I ... just ...
Blizzard is the company holding all threads of the game that started, determined, and dictated the whole scene.
If their owners perceive this all only as something they can profit from, they have A) wrong motives, B) they will fail.
Both are bad things for the company owners, seeking only profits. StarCraft will be there forever! Owners are idiots if they do not recognize the obvious. When 100 trendy boom-hype games are come and gone, there will still be Starcraft.
You cannot fight against the world. A Regiment of lawyers won't be good enough. If you seek pure profit, act accordingly! You cannot fake the needs of your audience. You simply cannot, and you know it.
So, good compromize would be that you keep this department running, with adequate funding (Hey! You make some serious bucks form it!), and updated. Few guys reading these threads (and acting appropriately) wouldn't do any bad to your cash flow.
Don't be arseholes. Please, realize the historical significance of your product. You simply cannot make losses in THIS department if you've any business sense at all. Thank you.
On March 20 2019 06:28 opisska wrote: I just watched game 1 of the 3rd place match. How the fuck is there no more outrage about it? How do people just casually accept that Maru "forgot that terran buildings can fly"? He threw the game, he did that completely openly for 20 minutes, yet the only thing everyone is talking about is the Macsed "matchfixing"? I ... just ...
Seriously? Stop looking at that game like a spectator who knows absolutely everything that is happening. Put yourself in his shoes. He doesn't know if Scarlett has a bank to make some corruptors if he lifts all his stuff into a corner. He also has to deal with fog of war. There's no way he can really find out if she has some resources banked to rely on. He's blind compared to a spectator who knows everything.
Also it's an overwhelming late game where he's constantly trying to figure out how to hold off Scarlett's attacks . When your focus is "how do I hold off these attacks?" and your opponent is constantly harassing you it's easy to forget about something really simple. Naturally to answer that question you're going to think of how to position your army and where and what you're going to do to engage her army and you'll constantly be looking for your opportunity to engage her army in a good spot. So you can easily forget hey maybe she wouldn't be able to kill my buildings if I floated them into a corner. It's super rare to get into this kind of situation in TvZ so it seems most likely that he has no experience with situations like this making it even easier to forget.
Finally, one huge key is that to matchfix you must guarantee that you lose the game. Giving Scarlett a very strong fight most of the game is not a good way to guarantee you're going to lose. You could accidentally win and make her leave if you're trying that hard. He played great for most of the game other than not realizing he could float his buildings and it took a huge effort from Scarlett to deal with him.
Compare that to the Macsed game where there's a bunch of blatant actions indicating he's throwing the game against a low level opponent who should never beat him and there's no contest here. Maru's game is not suspicious at all to me, but Macsed's game is extremely suspicious. The most suspicious professional game I've ever seen in SC2 in fact and I've been watching since 2011.
On March 20 2019 06:29 UnLarva wrote: Blizzard is the company holding all threads of the game that started, determined, and dictated the whole scene.
If their owners perceive this all only as something they can profit from, they have A) wrong motives, B) they will fail.
Both are bad things for the company owners, seeking only profits. StarCraft will be there forever! Owners are idiots if they do not recognize the obvious. When 100 trendy boom-hype games are come and gone, there will still be Starcraft.
You cannot fight against the world. A Regiment of lawyers won't be good enough. If you seek pure profit, act accordingly! You cannot fake the needs of your audience. You simply cannot, and you know it.
So, good compromize would be that you keep this department running, with adequate funding (Hey! You make some serious bucks form it!), and updated. Few guys reading these threads (and acting appropriately) wouldn't do any bad to your cash flow.
Don't be arseholes. Please, realize the historical significance of your product. You simply cannot make losses in THIS department if you've any business sense at all. Thank you.
In business, the only thing that matters is profit.
On March 20 2019 06:29 UnLarva wrote: Blizzard is the company holding all threads of the game that started, determined, and dictated the whole scene.
If their owners perceive this all only as something they can profit from, they have A) wrong motives, B) they will fail.
Both are bad things for the company owners, seeking only profits. StarCraft will be there forever! Owners are idiots if they do not recognize the obvious. When 100 trendy boom-hype games are come and gone, there will still be Starcraft.
You cannot fight against the world. A Regiment of lawyers won't be good enough. If you seek pure profit, act accordingly! You cannot fake the needs of your audience. You simply cannot, and you know it.
So, good compromize would be that you keep this department running, with adequate funding (Hey! You make some serious bucks form it!), and updated. Few guys reading these threads (and acting appropriately) wouldn't do any bad to your cash flow.
Don't be arseholes. Please, realize the historical significance of your product. You simply cannot make losses in THIS department if you've any business sense at all. Thank you.
In business, the only thing that matters is profit.
Yeah. You've Coca Cola recipe or a patent to T-model Ford construction line of Esports, and you contemplate "does it make profit?"...
EPT
INnoVation continued in 2019 as the Korean Terran player won his tenth major championship, defeating Finland's 
