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On March 01 2019 08:35 Rodya wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 08:30 BerserkSword wrote:On March 01 2019 07:57 Xain0n wrote:
I find it hard to think that Maru doesn't care. Why would he even bother to qualify and travel?
Hiding builds at a 150k tournament seems unlikely as well. maru cares. his fanboys are just looking for any excuse they can for his losses i didnt see his series vs trap, but leenock and neeb straight up outplayed him. maybe it's time to come to terms with the fact that maru isnt all he has been hyped up to be, especially in macro games post raven nerf everyone wants to see maru vs serral but i think serral vs innovation, stats, TY, gumiho have a lot more potential Maru isn't all he has been hyped up to be? We see Maru against the best players in the world every single week in Korea. The hype around Maru extends exactly as far as his results. The moment he loses a match hype starts to die and starts to build around other players who are winning. That's how stardom works in a community that values good performances. It works a bit differently in other communities...
This makes no sense. He literally bombed out of a tournament with a $150k top prize, that's worth way more than a GSL win. "The moment he loses a match..." um he lost vs. Leenock, Neeb (??) and Trap. Maybe the hype should die down a little bit and build around other players who are actually winning.
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On March 01 2019 08:35 Rodya wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 08:30 BerserkSword wrote:On March 01 2019 07:57 Xain0n wrote:
I find it hard to think that Maru doesn't care. Why would he even bother to qualify and travel?
Hiding builds at a 150k tournament seems unlikely as well. maru cares. his fanboys are just looking for any excuse they can for his losses i didnt see his series vs trap, but leenock and neeb straight up outplayed him. maybe it's time to come to terms with the fact that maru isnt all he has been hyped up to be, especially in macro games post raven nerf everyone wants to see maru vs serral but i think serral vs innovation, stats, TY, gumiho have a lot more potential Maru isn't all he has been hyped up to be? We see Maru against the best players in the world every single week in Korea. The hype around Maru extends exactly as far as his results. The moment he loses a match hype starts to die and starts to build around other players who are winning. That's how stardom works in a community that values good performances. It works a bit differently in other communities...
Every single week?
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Bisutopia19300 Posts
On March 01 2019 08:30 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 07:57 Xain0n wrote:
I find it hard to think that Maru doesn't care. Why would he even bother to qualify and travel?
Hiding builds at a 150k tournament seems unlikely as well. maru cares. his fanboys are just looking for any excuse they can for his losses i didnt see his series vs trap, but leenock and neeb straight up outplayed him. maybe it's time to come to terms with the fact that maru isnt all he has been hyped up to be, especially in macro games post raven nerf everyone wants to see maru vs serral but i think serral vs innovation, stats, TY, gumiho have a lot more potential
I am pretty Maru neutral. I am happy for him if he wins, but am okay if he doesn't. What I am more curious about, is how good he really is against the Starcraft field. He excels in the GSL environment, but his dominance doesn't extend beyond that. So we have to ask how good is he really.
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On March 01 2019 08:35 Rodya wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 08:30 BerserkSword wrote:On March 01 2019 07:57 Xain0n wrote:
I find it hard to think that Maru doesn't care. Why would he even bother to qualify and travel?
Hiding builds at a 150k tournament seems unlikely as well. maru cares. his fanboys are just looking for any excuse they can for his losses i didnt see his series vs trap, but leenock and neeb straight up outplayed him. maybe it's time to come to terms with the fact that maru isnt all he has been hyped up to be, especially in macro games post raven nerf everyone wants to see maru vs serral but i think serral vs innovation, stats, TY, gumiho have a lot more potential Maru isn't all he has been hyped up to be? We see Maru against the best players in the world every single week in Korea. The hype around Maru extends exactly as far as his results. The moment he loses a match hype starts to die and starts to build around other players who are winning. That's how stardom works in a community that values good performances. It works a bit differently in other communities...
Maru is no doubt a hell of a player. However, the hype he gets is ludicrous and does not match his actual ability at all. Maru's most impressive games, imo, were some of those macro TvZ games when the raven was broken and that's gone now.
The hype never seemed to die with Maru. even after everyone was clamoring for Serral vs Maru, and Maru got obliterated, exposed, and embarrassed by sOs, people still were trying to play him up as some kind of GOAT player, same caliber as Serral.
the supposed greatest player on the planet does not get embarrassed like this in two consecutive premier tournaments
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Stats and Dark proving themselves to be in top form. Will be very interesting tomorrow if TY joins them at the same level and we get the three overall strongest players of LotV going deep in the tournament.
And, of course, to see how strong Serral is these days.
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Maru is extremely good and had astonishing results last year: he was by far the best Terran in 2018 and he could rightfully be called the strongest player in the world for many months.
Thus said, I think that the fact that he was the first in history to win three consecutive Code S made people somehow believe he was the supreme God of Starcraft.
I believe that there were players in the past who would have been more worthy of this feat, but that's just my opinion and it's not integral to this discussion.
What is relevant, instead, is that all the hype blinded almost everyone to the weaknesses he evidently displayed, namely the weekenders and top level Protoss.
The uncharachteristic domination displayed by Maru and Serral last year made us forget that Starcraft is volatile and a single bad day means you get out of important tournaments.
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On March 01 2019 08:55 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 08:30 BerserkSword wrote:On March 01 2019 07:57 Xain0n wrote:
I find it hard to think that Maru doesn't care. Why would he even bother to qualify and travel?
Hiding builds at a 150k tournament seems unlikely as well. maru cares. his fanboys are just looking for any excuse they can for his losses i didnt see his series vs trap, but leenock and neeb straight up outplayed him. maybe it's time to come to terms with the fact that maru isnt all he has been hyped up to be, especially in macro games post raven nerf everyone wants to see maru vs serral but i think serral vs innovation, stats, TY, gumiho have a lot more potential I am pretty Maru neutral. I am happy for him if he wins, but am okay if he doesn't. What I am more curious about, is how good he really is against the Starcraft field. He excels in the GSL environment, but his dominance doesn't extend beyond that. So we have to ask how good is he really.
I agree. I think he is a cream of the crop player, but i just dont think objective analysis is being done with assessing how good he is. He is championship caliber but is he really in a higher class than the other championship caliber players? not in my opinion.
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That was a $200k BO7 series, not a weekender tournament.
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I've been a rabid Maru fanboy since his prime days so I'm obviously very biased and consider him among the goats, obviously he is an amazing player.
The question I can't help but ask is what is going on inside Marus head when he does the builds that he does. The bunker rush vs Neeb, the three rax into two rax proxy into quick third CC vs Leenock. Its baffling to me, then he goes on and takes down Dark 2-0, (missed the first game, second game being a late game macro) he stomps Dark lategame but seems scared to face Leenock in a standard game without being ahead. Same against Neeb, why not play a safer route, I understand pulling out the aggresive all-in from time to time but Maru goes too far.
It was the same last year to be honest, he kept doing the same predictable baffling proxy builds that shouldn't work but they did. When the games goes long he excelled.
Marus deserved to get knocked here based on his decision making but I wonder why he did this to himself, maybe I'm just a stupid fanboy but I really think Maru is the best in that group and he should have advanced if not for the stupid decisions he made.
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On March 01 2019 08:55 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 08:30 BerserkSword wrote:On March 01 2019 07:57 Xain0n wrote:
I find it hard to think that Maru doesn't care. Why would he even bother to qualify and travel?
Hiding builds at a 150k tournament seems unlikely as well. maru cares. his fanboys are just looking for any excuse they can for his losses i didnt see his series vs trap, but leenock and neeb straight up outplayed him. maybe it's time to come to terms with the fact that maru isnt all he has been hyped up to be, especially in macro games post raven nerf everyone wants to see maru vs serral but i think serral vs innovation, stats, TY, gumiho have a lot more potential I am pretty Maru neutral. I am happy for him if he wins, but am okay if he doesn't. What I am more curious about, is how good he really is against the Starcraft field. He excels in the GSL environment, but his dominance doesn't extend beyond that. So we have to ask how good is he really.
I'm glad you bring this up - because a lot of people just assume that Flash was the best terran/player in 2010 but he basically only played in OSL/MSL. How can you judge a player if they never play a weekender? It's not like the best format for determining the level of a player has always been considered to be the starleague format. Weekenders test a fundamentally different set of skills (I mean it's not like they're playing Starcraft in either case), so really you can't say that Flash was better than Light that year, because we just didn't see the other side of the coin.
Maru is still the best player in the world - having one bad day doesn't change that fact. And he doesn't care that some foreigner commentators have been painting an inaccurate picture of the world which would place undo importance on his results here.
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Bisutopia19300 Posts
On March 01 2019 09:07 Shuffleblade wrote:
I've been a rabid Maru fanboy since his prime days so I'm obviously very biased and consider him among the goats, obviously he is an amazing player.
The question I can't help but ask is what is going on inside Marus head when he does the builds that he does. The bunker rush vs Neeb, the three rax into two rax proxy into quick third CC vs Leenock. Its baffling to me, then he goes on and takes down Dark 2-0, (missed the first game, second game being a late game macro) he stomps Dark lategame but seems scared to face Leenock in a standard game without being ahead. Same against Neeb, why not play a safer route, I understand pulling out the aggresive all-in from time to time but Maru goes too far.
It was the same last year to be honest, he kept doing the same predictable baffling proxy builds that shouldn't work but they did. When the games goes long he excelled.
Marus deserved to get knocked here based on his decision making but I wonder why he did this to himself, maybe I'm just a stupid fanboy but I really think Maru is the best in that group and he should have advanced if not for the stupid decisions he made.
I think his decisions in blizzcon were equally baffling. I too wish we could hear from him.
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lol people expecting maru hype to die down cause he got had a bad day in IEM after dominating code S for an entire year. the year is still young friends, he's still in gsl ro16, he's still playing WESG in 2 weeks, he still has top notch mechanics, and he's still the same maru from last year. look at the bigger picture.. not every single tournament is meaningful in reshaping the perspective of players' performance. plenty of tournaments left to go, and it would be silly if people would turn away from maru because he underperformed today. i'm sure it will be clear by the end of the year if this is part of a trend or just noise in the data
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On March 01 2019 08:57 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 08:35 Rodya wrote:On March 01 2019 08:30 BerserkSword wrote:On March 01 2019 07:57 Xain0n wrote:
I find it hard to think that Maru doesn't care. Why would he even bother to qualify and travel?
Hiding builds at a 150k tournament seems unlikely as well. maru cares. his fanboys are just looking for any excuse they can for his losses i didnt see his series vs trap, but leenock and neeb straight up outplayed him. maybe it's time to come to terms with the fact that maru isnt all he has been hyped up to be, especially in macro games post raven nerf everyone wants to see maru vs serral but i think serral vs innovation, stats, TY, gumiho have a lot more potential Maru isn't all he has been hyped up to be? We see Maru against the best players in the world every single week in Korea. The hype around Maru extends exactly as far as his results. The moment he loses a match hype starts to die and starts to build around other players who are winning. That's how stardom works in a community that values good performances. It works a bit differently in other communities... Maru is no doubt a hell of a player. However, the hype he gets is ludicrous and does not match his actual ability at all. Maru's most impressive games, imo, were some of those macro TvZ games when the raven was broken and that's gone now. The hype never seemed to die with Maru. even after everyone was clamoring for Serral vs Maru, and Maru got obliterated, exposed, and embarrassed by sOs, people still were trying to play him up as some kind of GOAT player, same caliber as Serral. the supposed greatest player on the planet does not get embarrassed like this in two consecutive premier tournaments
The classic "The player I dont like lost in a tournament therefore all he has done so far is shit and people praising him are blinded dont you see?"
I bet you also think rogue is a patchzerg.
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pls buff protoss and zerg blizzard. Its about time !
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Canada8989 Posts
On March 01 2019 07:48 BisuDagger wrote:
Maru continues his streak of losing in non-GSL tournaments. If he wins another GSL does it mean he just doesn't care about non-GSLs or is he really incapable of winning day tournaments? It definitely cheapens his argument for GOAT.
If he wins another GSL yes, but right now Maru won only 1 of his last 5 tournaments and had disapointing results in his last 3 tournaments. So it's hard to know if it is a matter of underperforming in weekender which he certainly has done across his carrer especially going to the west (understand "not China" where he had multiple wins) or if his dominance is all but over.
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On March 01 2019 09:29 herwo wrote:
lol people expecting maru hype to die down cause he got had a bad day in IEM after dominating code S for an entire year. the year is still young friends, he's still in gsl ro16, he's still playing WESG in 2 weeks, he still has top notch mechanics, and he's still the same maru from last year. look at the bigger picture.. not every single tournament is meaningful in reshaping the perspective of players' performance. plenty of tournaments left to go, and it would be silly if people would turn away from maru because he underperformed today. i'm sure it will be clear by the end of the year if this is part of a trend or just noise in the data
There is wisdom in this words.
However, the hype could be toned down a little without diminishing the esteem for Maru as a top player.
It's stubborn to keep thinking he, at the moment, is the best player in the world after the third consecutive early exit in a Premier weekender(not counting GSL vs the World where he lost in the semifinals).
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On March 01 2019 07:32 DreamlnCode wrote:
Maru didn't look like he was trying to be honest. Wouldn't surprise me if he was saving his best builds for GSL. Then again. . .
It makes no sense, there's much more to win at Katowice
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funny to see all the korean haters coming out of the woodwork
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Both WESG and GSL are within close proximity, It's not uncommon for pro-gamers to play favourites with their events.
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On March 01 2019 09:35 Argonauta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 08:57 BerserkSword wrote:On March 01 2019 08:35 Rodya wrote:On March 01 2019 08:30 BerserkSword wrote:On March 01 2019 07:57 Xain0n wrote:
I find it hard to think that Maru doesn't care. Why would he even bother to qualify and travel?
Hiding builds at a 150k tournament seems unlikely as well. maru cares. his fanboys are just looking for any excuse they can for his losses i didnt see his series vs trap, but leenock and neeb straight up outplayed him. maybe it's time to come to terms with the fact that maru isnt all he has been hyped up to be, especially in macro games post raven nerf everyone wants to see maru vs serral but i think serral vs innovation, stats, TY, gumiho have a lot more potential Maru isn't all he has been hyped up to be? We see Maru against the best players in the world every single week in Korea. The hype around Maru extends exactly as far as his results. The moment he loses a match hype starts to die and starts to build around other players who are winning. That's how stardom works in a community that values good performances. It works a bit differently in other communities... Maru is no doubt a hell of a player. However, the hype he gets is ludicrous and does not match his actual ability at all. Maru's most impressive games, imo, were some of those macro TvZ games when the raven was broken and that's gone now. The hype never seemed to die with Maru. even after everyone was clamoring for Serral vs Maru, and Maru got obliterated, exposed, and embarrassed by sOs, people still were trying to play him up as some kind of GOAT player, same caliber as Serral. the supposed greatest player on the planet does not get embarrassed like this in two consecutive premier tournaments The classic "The player I dont like lost in a tournament therefore all he has done so far is shit and people praising him are blinded dont you see?" I bet you also think rogue is a patchzerg.
It's funny that you name Rogue who complements Maru perfectly as he only win weekenders and has always failed in Code S so far.
The op actually says Maru is great; it's just that he is overhyped to the point his losses seem to be completely overlook and that his fans continue to claim he's still the very best right now in spite of the recent results.
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EPT
