EPTMaru eliminated in IEM Katowice Group Stage (Ro24 Day 1) -…
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dysenterymd
1250 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On March 01 2019 17:37 deacon.frost wrote: Well I'm not the one who claimed that the best player of the world has to be good at both GSLs and weekenders. And I said multiple times that Serral is in my eyes top4 player, but hey, let's talk about the best player of the world which has to be good at both weekenders and preparational tournaments. Serral is not that player and Maru is not that player either. Damn. Serral is the first non korean since beta who is the best player in the world, so the comparison here seems a bit silly; he is unsurprisingly playing in his region of birth, there is no Code S in Europe. He might take into consideration to reside in Korea for three months with the only purpose of playing in GSL but it was silly to do so last year and it seems he is not willing to do it this year(at least, that was his opinion after HSC). Maru is instead korean indeed and he can more easily be compared to his predecessors; for him to play Code S is essentially mandatory and he excels in such a competition(despite not reaching a single final for more than seven years, the fact he was able to win it three straight times is outstanding). He doesn't shine in weekenders, losing a little too often to Protoss and teammates and exhibiting a certain obstination to try to proxy and cheese even when he's the best macro player and would probably win playing it safe. | ||
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SpaWnvERtiGO
110 Posts
He played it like someone who was tired of being eliminated from huge tourneys by players who know his style inside and out.... Kinda like Katowice last year.... Maru was dominating the macro games... So Rogue just nydus cheesed him out. Kinda similar to sOs too. I think mentally he was fucked playing another teammate. If he played standard, he probably felt vulnerable to an all in. It's like he was playing the meta inside his Team house and not the ACTUAL meta.... That was my take anyway.... And Maru WAS the FIRST Terran I ever saw do the banshee hyper flight rotor mech build. In like, I dunno whatever the last year of Proleague was. He did it vs Solar. He also was the first Terran to really figure out Ravens were broken... Marcus greatest strength after micro/ army control is his game sense. It's usually second to none... but here he was just off, like the 3rd CC after the proxy. He was too in his own head..... | ||
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alpenrahm
Germany629 Posts
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
On March 01 2019 18:34 dysenterymd wrote: I think Maru and Serral are both simultaneously over and under hyped at this point. Some people think Serral is a GOAT contender which is absurd (Serral needs 2-3 more titles like blizzcon/iem/gsl to be in that conversation, though I wouldn't be surprised if he reaches that point), others don't recognizes his absurd offline win streak as one of the greatest achievements in SC2 history, even if it ends today. On the other hand, bashing Maru (whose 3 consecutive GSL wins are historic) just because "Korea above all else" fans are dismissive of Serral is quite common, whereas the Maru >>>> Serral case made by some people is obvious overhype. The problem with Serral streak is that it was mostly against foreign competition, and as we have seen foreigners still get crushed when there are as many koreans as them in the tournament (blizzcon, and IEM -> reynor prodigy couldn't even take out Creator who himself got trashed in the brutal groupstages...). The other obvious problem with Serral, is that his best achievements (GSL vs the world / BlizzCon) happened in a very favorable patch for zerg, so all in all his streak is roughly the same as Rogue 2017, except we didn't get to see if Rogue could win 4 WCS in a row: good form in later GSL side event, win BlizzCon while zerg is in a good spot. That's already a superb achievement, especially since no foreigner was able to win BlizzCon in spite of KR competition, but it will be interesting to see how Serral fares across patches in premier tournaments. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On March 01 2019 18:13 Charoisaur wrote: I'd also think Rogue would be able to reach at least the ro4 of GSL yet he hasn't done that yet. Trying and failing multiple times in a certain tournament can't be equated to never playing it. Serral is overhyped to your eyes because of your disregard for WCS, nothing else; a very little minority of his fans actually overvalue his current achievements because of the resonance of him being a non-korean. Maru is overhyped because he performs too poorly in international tournaments in comparison to his own Code S dominance, unlike the previous best players in the world. | ||
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Clazziquai10
Singapore1949 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On March 01 2019 18:49 Poopi wrote: The problem with Serral streak is that it was mostly against foreign competition, and as we have seen foreigners still get crushed when there are as many koreans as them in the tournament (blizzcon, and IEM -> reynor prodigy couldn't even take out Creator who himself got trashed in the brutal groupstages...). The other obvious problem with Serral, is that his best achievements (GSL vs the world / BlizzCon) happened in a very favorable patch for zerg, so all in all his streak is roughly the same as Rogue 2017, except we didn't get to see if Rogue could win 4 WCS in a row: good form in later GSL side event, win BlizzCon while zerg is in a good spot. That's already a superb achievement, especially since no foreigner was able to win BlizzCon in spite of KR competition, but it will be interesting to see how Serral fares across patches in premier tournaments. Even if you exclude the victory against foreigners, Serral's is still the best offline streak against korean players(the majority of this being top contenders, not Code S ro32 material). To win four straight WCS you have to be insanely consistent as they span across over eight months; not even considering the level of the competition, being in a tournament winning shape for such a long time is something very few could achieve. He ascended in a patch good for Zerg, that's true, but he was vastly superior to his peers; only Reynor in WCS reached a final as Zerg during that patch with Maru winning Code S against T and Classic winning super tournament against P. Not to mention Serral won HSC right after a new patch was released and Zerg was struggling immensely against Terran to the point Rogue would have caused NoRegreat to eat a shoe... | ||
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
On March 01 2019 18:51 Xain0n wrote: Trying and failing multiple times in a certain tournament can't be equated to never playing it. Serral is overhyped to your eyes because of your disregard for WCS, nothing else; a very little minority of his fans actually overvalue his current achievements because of the resonance of him being a non-korean. Maru is overhyped because he performs too poorly in international tournaments in comparison to his own Code S dominance, unlike the previous best players in the world. I dunno about that, winning WESG and top 4 at IEM seems like a good international performance to me in 2018 while he was winning GSL. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On March 01 2019 19:01 Poopi wrote: I dunno about that, winning WESG and top 4 at IEM seems like a good international performance to me in 2018 while he was winning GSL. Those were impressive results, there is no doubt he was the best player at the time; since the first Super Tournament in April, however, Maru did not make it to a final in the next four weekenders. It's still more than enough to say that he was the best korean player in and to argue that he had the best achievement overall in 2018(not my opinion but I can at least understand the claim); it doesn't seem appropriate to me to think he is the best player in the world at the moment. | ||
Waxangel
United States33559 Posts
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
On March 01 2019 19:10 Waxangel wrote: TFW people forget Maru 3-0'd Serral at WESG on the way to winning $200,000. Yes, it's probably true that Serral wasn't 'full-strength' at that tournament, but that's not a relevant argument when measuring who was the best player in 2018 ;o (I still give it to Serral, but I think it's incredibly close and not at all an obvious choice) sOs robbed us of the answer unfortunately | ||
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MrFreeman
207 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
It was a punishment for Blizzard retarded rule they invented on the spot. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On March 01 2019 19:10 Waxangel wrote: TFW people forget Maru 3-0'd Serral at WESG on the way to winning $200,000. Yes, it's probably true that Serral wasn't 'full-strength' at that tournament, but that's not a relevant argument when measuring who was the best player in 2018 ;o (I still give it to Serral, but I think it's incredibly close and not at all an obvious choice) Serral definitely had not reached his best level while Maru rose to his top form in that tournament; Dark was clearly better than Serral at the time: he reached finals where he lost 3-4 against putting up a much better fight. However, speaking of international results, Maru peaked at WESG then went downhill while Serral ended the year winning every single tournament he entered; he couldn't face Maru anymore because of the eliminations the latter suffered, even if we had a peek of the dream match during the team event of GSL vs the World. | ||
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
On March 01 2019 19:23 Xain0n wrote: Serral definitely had not reached his best level while Maru rose to his top form in that tournament; Dark was clearly better than Serral at the time: he reached finals where he lost 3-4 against putting up a much better fight. However, speaking of international results, Maru peaked at WESG then went downhill while Serral ended the year winning every single tournament he entered; he couldn't face Maru anymore because of the eliminations the latter suffered, even if we had a peek of the dream match during the team event of GSL vs the World. I don't think we can know for sure Serral didn't reach his best level at WESG, precisely because he went fucking untested in ZvT (minus foreign kids) after that. Plus the raven nerf. Maru didn't go downhill after WESG, he kept on winning GSLs. I don't think we'll see that ever again as long as there as 8-10 top players still in the KR scene | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On March 01 2019 19:23 Xain0n wrote: Serral definitely had not reached his best level while Maru rose to his top form in that tournament; Dark was clearly better than Serral at the time: he reached finals where he lost 3-4 against putting up a much better fight. However, speaking of international results, Maru peaked at WESG then went downhill while Serral ended the year winning every single tournament he entered; he couldn't face Maru anymore because of the eliminations the latter suffered, even if we had a peek of the dream match during the team event of GSL vs the World. At the same time it's easier for Serral to go for GSL than for Maru to go to WCS. At the end of the year Serral was qualified for Blizzcon multiple times. Obviously he didn't want to go to GSL. He could have even payed for his stay from his prize money. Screw prize money, I wouldn't be surprised if Afreeca would have payed for him at that time, NoShoe's house was just a benefit. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33559 Posts
On March 01 2019 19:28 deacon.frost wrote: At the same time it's easier for Serral to go for GSL than for Maru to go to WCS. At the end of the year Serral was qualified for Blizzcon multiple times. Obviously he didn't want to go to GSL. He could have even payed for his stay from his prize money. Screw prize money, I wouldn't be surprised if Afreeca would have payed for him at that time, NoShoe's house was just a benefit. He gets to keep his preferred lifestyle (living with family in Finland) and still gets to win a lot of prize money and be the best player in the world. I feel like there would have to be a considerable financial incentive for him to go out to Korea for a full GSL cycle. (Or maybe he gets super bored and says 'I wanna try winning a GSL' one day  ) | ||
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fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
I mean, what is this illguided idea that every time a great player stops performing his achievements get belittled. It was the same with Rogue being called a Patchzerg, Byun being called a reaper-abuser. If you dig deep enough, you find a reason to downplay the success of every champion we ever had. Maru was the only terran that was able to do what he did in 2018. Only TY got close for a view months. He demolished great zergs even post raven nerf won 3 GSLs in a row vs the toughest competition there is. So, yeah, it seems Maru's great time is over for now. But we saw his potential and it's really not that unlikely that he will live up to it again, considering that he never really lost his status as a championship contender after his first starleague success. | ||
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