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On November 28 2018 05:59 Xain0n wrote:
The form Dave4 is using is humurous but probably could appear disrespectful.
He is saying that while the poll shows a significant majority of pro-Serral votes, the actual posts in this discussion are even(and i'd add that the pro-Maru posters are in higher number or so it appears to me); this means that either many of the pro-Maru users didn't vote in the poll or that they simply are very vocal.
One could even say it's somewhat disrespectful considering we're on a thread about a serral victory. Imagine if you graduate and people come out of nowhere to tell you your university isn't even that good. Like, c'mon.
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On November 28 2018 06:05 RadgeRayden wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2018 05:59 Xain0n wrote:
The form Dave4 is using is humurous but probably could appear disrespectful.
He is saying that while the poll shows a significant majority of pro-Serral votes, the actual posts in this discussion are even(and i'd add that the pro-Maru posters are in higher number or so it appears to me); this means that either many of the pro-Maru users didn't vote in the poll or that they simply are very vocal.
One could even say it's somewhat disrespectful considering we're on a thread about a serral victory. Imagine if you graduate and people come out of nowhere to tell you your university isn't even that good. Like, c'mon.
I don't see anyone saying that. He's being compared with Maru who had a super amazing year. It follows that Serral did too. No one is doubting that Serral's year was really great.
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On November 28 2018 05:52 NinjaNight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2018 05:42 Dave4 wrote:On November 28 2018 05:28 NinjaNight wrote:
It's really easy to look at the results this year and just assume that Serral was the best. Any Joe Schmoe would just look at everything at face value without critically analyzing it and say Serral is best. Obviously it looks that way at first. It's hard to look deeper at what was really going on.
And again, I don't really have a side in this. I'm not saying Maru was better and I'm not saying Serral was better. I'm saying Serral hasn't shown enough to say he was absolutely better than Maru. I think Ninja Night is a fairly good example of the Dave4 Tear Density Theorem. He or she has made 5 separate posts on page 9 of the comments section, increasing the density of tears approximately 5x in comparison to a Serral appreciator who may leave one comment per page to express their tears of elation for Serral's successful endeavours at HSC XVIII. Actually, I really like Serral. Cut the crap. This kind of idiocy is out of control, you're like the immature people in twitch chat. Can't we just have a friendly debate without getting into stupid insults? Serral has had an amazing year and I'm not taking anything away from him.
Apologies friend, I mean no disrespect. I was simply noting the high volume of posts that you were making, I imagine you might be having a little difficulty in replying at the moment due to spam filters.
The Dave4 Tear Density Theorem is not about insulting members of the any particular club, but simply recognising that they are a (vocal) minority on the forums.
Approximately 1 in 10 users are for whatever reason not of the view that 7 premier tournaments in one year (including the largest) means that a foreigner was the best player of 2018; and those users will generally tend to post more frequently.
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You're still proceeding with your argument based on long held sentiment. Firstly Serral faced 0 foreigners at blizzcon. Zero.
Maru's path GSLCodeS: Forte/Leenock(group) -> Neeb/Reynor(group) -> GuMiho -> Zest -> TY
Serral's path in blizzcon: SoS/Zest(group) ->Dark -> Rogue -> Stats.
I really don't think a trivial extra group with Forte, Leenock, and Dear who have a near 0% chance of preventing a player of Maru or Serral's caliber from advancing, makes code S any harder. The difficulty of these paths are pretty similar in difficulty. So similar in difficulty that Serral and Maru's simultaneous presence in the tournament gives the edge to blizzcon easily.
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A cool series, personally I was cheering for INno so it was a little disappointing to see him not being able to close it out, but at the same time very well played by Serral as well.
The first game on Lost and Found was definitely my favorite (no bias  )
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On November 28 2018 06:21 Dave4 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2018 05:52 NinjaNight wrote:On November 28 2018 05:42 Dave4 wrote:On November 28 2018 05:28 NinjaNight wrote:
It's really easy to look at the results this year and just assume that Serral was the best. Any Joe Schmoe would just look at everything at face value without critically analyzing it and say Serral is best. Obviously it looks that way at first. It's hard to look deeper at what was really going on.
And again, I don't really have a side in this. I'm not saying Maru was better and I'm not saying Serral was better. I'm saying Serral hasn't shown enough to say he was absolutely better than Maru. I think Ninja Night is a fairly good example of the Dave4 Tear Density Theorem. He or she has made 5 separate posts on page 9 of the comments section, increasing the density of tears approximately 5x in comparison to a Serral appreciator who may leave one comment per page to express their tears of elation for Serral's successful endeavours at HSC XVIII. Actually, I really like Serral. Cut the crap. This kind of idiocy is out of control, you're like the immature people in twitch chat. Can't we just have a friendly debate without getting into stupid insults? Serral has had an amazing year and I'm not taking anything away from him. Apologies friend, I mean no disrespect. I was simply noting the high volume of posts that you were making, I imagine you might be having a little difficulty in replying at the moment due to spam filters. The Dave4 Tear Density Theorem is not about insulting members of the any particular club, but simply recognising that they are a (vocal) minority on the forums. Approximately 1 in 10 users are for whatever reason not of the view that 7 premier tournaments in one year (including the largest) means that a foreigner was the best player of 2018; and those users will generally tend to post more frequently.
Ah, sorry. You're right I just totally misinterpreted that.
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On November 28 2018 06:39 Kurao wrote:A cool series, personally I was cheering for INno so it was a little disappointing to see him not being able to close it out, but at the same time very well played by Serral as well. The first game on Lost and Found was definitely my favorite (no bias )
Agreed =)
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Trash talking Marus Code S groups is silly. He had easier groups because he was Code S champion. Every sc fan knows what Im talking about.
Grats to Serral, I hope he plays more Koreans and GSL so that we can assess him in comparison to Maru and the other greats of the past.
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I am pretty sure Dave4 is Serral's mum 
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On November 28 2018 08:31 Xamo wrote:I am pretty sure Dave4 is Serral's mum
More likely his father as apparently Serral's mom isn't much into sc2.
Jokes aside, nobody is disrespecting Maru's code S path; just that his ro32 wasn't a real obstacle for him.
I, as well, hope Serral plays in Code S but it's not like it's a mandatory requisite to be taken into account when speaking of Sc2's greatest players.
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I saw where Dave4 was going with his post just by looking at the numbers.
There's a lot of salt on this thread.
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On November 28 2018 06:23 SetStndbySmn wrote:
You're still proceeding with your argument based on long held sentiment. Firstly Serral faced 0 foreigners at blizzcon. Zero.
Maru's path GSLCodeS: Forte/Leenock(group) -> Neeb/Reynor(group) -> GuMiho -> Zest -> TY
Serral's path in blizzcon: SoS/Zest(group) ->Dark -> Rogue -> Stats.
I really don't think a trivial extra group with Forte, Leenock, and Dear who have a near 0% chance of preventing a player of Maru or Serral's caliber from advancing, makes code S any harder. The difficulty of these paths are pretty similar in difficulty. So similar in difficulty that Serral and Maru's simultaneous presence in the tournament gives the edge to blizzcon easily.
Yup, well said there. In fact, one could easily argue that Serrals path to victory was even harder than Maru´s on that occasion.
I still cant buy this;
On November 27 2018 05:34 NinjaNight wrote:
Maru won GSL Code S, the hardest tournament in existence, multiple times which was unprecedented. Serral wasn't at GSL Code S so unfortunately we can only speculate, but the point is Maru's achievement was incredible and could be considered as good or better than what Serral has done.
On November 28 2018 00:25 NinjaNight wrote:
Wtf? GSL Code S is clearly harder than Blizzcon. Maru's problem at Blizzcon is he ran into his kryptonite, sOs, his protoss teammate who just has his number. It's similar to how Nadal is Federer's kryptonite and beat him all the time, but Federer is still the best ever.
Again, let's see Serral start competing in the GSL Code S tournaments and see how he does.
And I'm not even trying to argue that Maru is better. I'm not claiming who is better. I'm saying you're all jumping to conclusions and assuming that Serral is better and assuming that Serral absolutely had a better year when you shouldn't be.
But well, Serral hasnt had any kryptonite, now has he ? Instead he demolished sOs more easily than Has.
Still havent read any clear facts or even well based justifications that Code S is more hard than Blizzcon, because that simply isnt true. Same goes with GSL vs. the World. Preparing or not preparing doesnt imo mean that much, besides that should also weigh the scale towards Serral, who hasnt had that many opportunities to prepare all of his opponents all the time, and still has crushed everybody.
And losing to sOs.....or even Stats, how can you not calculate those defeats since Serral also played him both tournaments and won both. And also, so that people dont forget, Serral also beat Maru then in that one match, adding to his resume. Doesnt that count too ?
So, all in all, Maru failed 3 times when he was against Serral (Stats, sOs, Serral) in tournaments, while Serral won all of them. If you want to be a "purist" and look it at that way. How can you say Maru was better ?
In the end, either way we look at the results, these can only lead to one clear conclusion; Serral was, by far, the best player of 2018 ^^.
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Preparing or not preparing is not harder or easier it's just different, people always bring this up like it's some silver bullet against Serral while also not realizing that Blizzcon is half preparing - half weekender.
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On November 28 2018 09:01 Starcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2018 06:23 SetStndbySmn wrote:
You're still proceeding with your argument based on long held sentiment. Firstly Serral faced 0 foreigners at blizzcon. Zero.
Maru's path GSLCodeS: Forte/Leenock(group) -> Neeb/Reynor(group) -> GuMiho -> Zest -> TY
Serral's path in blizzcon: SoS/Zest(group) ->Dark -> Rogue -> Stats.
I really don't think a trivial extra group with Forte, Leenock, and Dear who have a near 0% chance of preventing a player of Maru or Serral's caliber from advancing, makes code S any harder. The difficulty of these paths are pretty similar in difficulty. So similar in difficulty that Serral and Maru's simultaneous presence in the tournament gives the edge to blizzcon easily. Yup, well said there. In fact, one could easily argue that Serrals path to victory was even harder than Maru´s on that occasion. I still cant buy this; Show nested quote +On November 27 2018 05:34 NinjaNight wrote:
Maru won GSL Code S, the hardest tournament in existence, multiple times which was unprecedented. Serral wasn't at GSL Code S so unfortunately we can only speculate, but the point is Maru's achievement was incredible and could be considered as good or better than what Serral has done.
Show nested quote +On November 28 2018 00:25 NinjaNight wrote:
Wtf? GSL Code S is clearly harder than Blizzcon. Maru's problem at Blizzcon is he ran into his kryptonite, sOs, his protoss teammate who just has his number. It's similar to how Nadal is Federer's kryptonite and beat him all the time, but Federer is still the best ever.
Again, let's see Serral start competing in the GSL Code S tournaments and see how he does.
And I'm not even trying to argue that Maru is better. I'm not claiming who is better. I'm saying you're all jumping to conclusions and assuming that Serral is better and assuming that Serral absolutely had a better year when you shouldn't be.
But well, Serral hasnt had any kryptonite, now has he ? Instead he demolished sOs more easily than Has. Still havent read any clear facts or even well based justifications that Code S is more hard than Blizzcon, because that simply isnt true. Same goes with GSL vs. the World. Preparing or not preparing doesnt imo mean that much, besides that should also weigh the scale towards Serral, who hasnt had that many opportunities to prepare all of his opponents all the time, and still has crushed everybody. And losing to sOs.....or even Stats, how can you not calculate those defeats since Serral also played him both tournaments and won both. And also, so that people dont forget, Serral also beat Maru then in that one match, adding to his resume. Doesnt that count too ? So, all in all, Maru failed 3 times when he was against Serral (Stats, sOs, Serral) in tournaments, while Serral won all of them. If you want to be a "purist" and look it at that way. How can you say Maru was better ? In the end, either way we look at the results, these can only lead to one clear conclusion; Serral was, by far, the best player of 2018 ^^.
To be honest, before Serral went on his path of dominance, they crossed twice in a weekender in March: they had the same result in Katowice(both lost in semifinals) and Maru beat Serral directly(3-0 in semifinals, Serral finished third) going on to win WESG. The game they played at GSL vs the World was a showmatch, still Serral had achieved his ultimate form at this point.
This doesn't change the fact that Serral had without any doubt better results in the four tournaments where they both figured in the lineup.
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On November 28 2018 08:46 Xain0n wrote:More likely his father as apparently Serral's mom isn't much into sc2. Jokes aside, nobody is disrespecting Maru's code S path; just that his ro32 wasn't a real obstacle for him. I, as well, hope Serral plays in Code S but it's not like it's a mandatory requisite to be taken into account when speaking of Sc2's greatest players.
Serral is a top player, and surely the best zerg today. But the greatest of all time played hundreds of games against koreans a year and played in starleagues. Cant compare him very well if he doesnt imitate that behavior.
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dave4's alter ego has come to save us, this is funny
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I think dominance is the last thing SC2 need to still alive. Even if it´s a foreigner. When Neeb won in Korea everybody talked tons of shit about protoss. But Serral is a zerg. No problem. Same shit since 2010.
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Well, the greatest were all koreans so it was natural that they played so many games against themselves; nowadays the best player isn't from Korea and a fair amount of top players are foreigners as well, despite koreans still being ahead on average.
That's to say GSL isn't as relevant as it used to be so you should take this into consideration when comparing Serral to the greatest of all time and probably he doesn't really have to go to play in GSL to prove himself as there are other cross region tournaments where he can face top koreans already.
In any of case, it would be a pity and a wasted occasion for him not to play in Code S due to the historical importance of the tournament; i am even personally convinced that it would be a good move to train in Korea next year given the recent balance changes, so i hope that he will go there soon.
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On November 28 2018 10:01 IshinShishi wrote:
dave4's alter ego has come to save us, this is funny
Who is dave4's alter ego?
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On November 28 2018 10:05 EESCLuna wrote:
I think dominance is the last thing SC2 need to still alive. Even if it´s a foreigner. When Neeb won in Korea everybody talked tons of shit about protoss. But Serral is a zerg. No problem. Same shit since 2010.
Oh come on  .
Protoss was very strong when Neeb won Kespa cup, he played mainly protosses, Serral's victory had opponent of all races, included a Terran infested HSC.
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EPT
