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What?
The region-lock thread that popped up due to Serral and other foreigners being successful against Koreans raised the question how the Korean SC2-Scene could be supported in order to get new players into SC2 in South Korea. I think we should try to gather several Ideas and discuss them.
I will gather Ideas in this start-post, linking to them in the thread.
Please don't just throw some buzz words in, but think stuff through. It's ok to fantasize, but it also important to think about financing, logistics and stuff.
And please only one idea per post 
Why though?
Surely we also could say "So what? Korea still isn't in bad condition. They're just not as overwhelming great anymore." But I think teamliquid always has been a place of cherishing the greatness of Korean Starcraft which was possible because of great conditions. It's sad to see those good conditions falter because we know that there is potential for so much more. More players, more exciting games, better players, more money in the leagues, more... greatness
I really think that SC2 is capable of sustaining such success because it's a great game which just needs proper support in order to prosper as an esports. We can see that this works in the foreign scene where we have growing viewer numbers again and some new players. Why shouldn't this be possible in South Korea, too?
Here are the ideas suggested/discussed in this thread:
- Make Code A great again!
- Fund a Korean rookie team
- rookie world championship
- reserved rookie slots in GSL
- small rookie tournaments on full production value hype
- Global Challenger League
- Get big companies back into funding SC2 teams again
- your idea could be written down here!
- ...?
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This is what I suggested in the region-lock-thread:
On November 06 2018 19:20 fronkschnonk wrote:I think there could be a Code A for GSL which would feature 20 additional spots to the 32 players of Code S. I suggested this before: 1. financing: GSL vs the World (94k $ prizemoney) could be cancelled. 31,3k $ prizemoney per season of code A would be enough. Costs for accomodation and flights would also be saved and thus available for studio costs etc. 2. Format:Code A + Show Spoiler +- 4 groups of 8 players, round robin format = 32 players
- top 3 of each group (or top 12 of all players if another format) advances to code S = 12 players advancing
The amount of players could be adjusted to 28 or 24 with groups of 7 or 6 players, if there aren't enough players who try to qualify Code S + Show Spoiler +- 25th-32nd of code S goes down to code A = 8 players
- 17th-24th of Code S has to fight in relegation matches - top 4 stay in code S, last 4 go to code A
This way we'd have 12 players who are seeded into next code A (3 in each group) - the other 20 (or 16 or 12 if you reduce Code A spots) spots have to be filled via qualifiers Total amount of players in codeA+codeS would be 52 (or 48 or 44) 3. Bonus idea:Winners of qualifier-groups could compete for 4 spots into the relegation matches of Code S. Then we had 4 players staying or advancing to code S and 8 players going to Code A. This way we had a bigger fluctuation of players in Code S which was an issue in early Code S/Code A format in 2011/12. Also it would create the possibility for cool newcomer stories and great players wouldn't get stuck in Code A when they actually could compete on Code S level. The question remains if there would be enough players for such a system. We would need at least 12 additional players for a serious competition in Code A (else Code A would look ridiculous). Based on last Code S qualifiers this could be: Trust, Taeja, Byul, Patience, Creator, SuperNova, TOP, Labyrinth, Spear, Fantasy, Prince, Rookie
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region-lock GSL so newcomers won't have to compete with ~10 top tier foreigners in the qualifiers and actually have a shot at breaking into the scene.
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On November 07 2018 08:12 Charoisaur wrote:
region-lock GSL so newcomers won't have to compete with ~10 top tier foreigners in the qualifiers and actually have a shot at breaking into the scene.
If that was the topic I wanted to talk about I would've sticked to the region-lock thread. I don't think that region lock will solve the problem but that's not the question of this thread. The topic of this thread is how to find additional support for the Korean scene.
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There should be a rookie world championship at the end of the year to find the "Rookie of the Year"- it could be as small as a four-player invitational for the top 4 new players in WCS points. No need for complex solutions, but it gives a massive incentive for new players to get into the scene in Korea.
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Korea never latched on to SC2 like they did with Brood War. Aside from KeSPA coming over there has been basically no new blood in Korea since the game came out. Just looking at the players whop qualified for Code S this season, every single Korean either came over when KeSPA switch to SC2 or made their debut in WoL. The lack of any sort of support for players outside of the top 32 certainly doesn't help, but the lack of new blood is hardly a new issue.
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Korea (South)227 Posts
lack of new blood in Korea is more about just lack of interest then funding. Sure, funding has been cut in some ways in recent years, but its because of the lack of interest in going pro in this game that caused this. League has been the crown jewel of Korea (and still is, with its no.1 PC bang spot still ongoing) ever since something like 2012-2013 and Starcraft II just never managed to grab attention with young people as other titles have done.
I guess it also doesn't help that being a direct sequel to Starcraft Brood War any and all mistakes that Starcraft II had early on were scrutinized and blown out of proportion due to people's expectations being sky high at the start.
Its going to be an almost impossible task to get "new" blood in Starcraft II. I do know some younger amateur non pros who are fairly young (some younger than Maru) but most aren't truly committed to a pro gamer life, especially when OWL or LOL pays just so much more than anything Starcraft II can pay.
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I think we should accept, that SC2 is dead in S.Korea by KESPA hands and BlIzzard decisions. It's dead. Try to compare or try to remember what was in 2014-2015. Instead, get your fcking micro-transactions, skins and banners (it's very important to support sc2).
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On November 07 2018 11:10 dummy1 wrote:
I think we should accept, that SC2 is dead in S.Korea by KESPA hands and BlIzzard decisions. It's dead. Try to compare or try to remember what was in 2014-2015. Instead, get your fcking micro-transactions, skins and banners (it's very important to support sc2).
+1. Kudos for you to say it as it is. Korean SC2 scene is practically dead. Zero new blood. Couple new players tried one season of GSL and then disappeared completely as they realized too many top players compete for one single prize pool left in Korea which is GSL.
The scene is basically the same group of players for the past 3 years. Half of them are probably at the age when they are ready for army service including some of the most winning players: Zest, Classic, sOs, herO and soO. After they are gone, what is left? At this rate, Losira will finally qualify for BlizzCon.
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South Korea needs a region locked Code A. Prizepool finances arent really the problem. You can lower for instance Blizzcon prizepool quite abit and get some outside sponsorship to have healthy spread out prizepools for a tournament like that, but the tournament cost to host it. You need alot of passionate souls in Korea that wants to do this work for little to no money. If the market was there, im sure it would have happened.
The only reson ppl outside of Korea even cares about this is sentimental. They had an edge over everyone else because the entire country got behind it, which was cool. While in the rest of the world you were living out of your parents house getting yelled at every night for wasting your time
South Korea still has 3 + 1? premier tournaments located in 1 country. The rest they will have to figure out themself if there is intrest enough.
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I think it'd be nice if a few slots of GSL was reserved for rookies. That way they'd at least get a chance to play in a televised match. Alternatively maybe just hosting a rookie only weekend tournament with minimal prize money but the full GSL cast/crew to make them feel like its a real thing. I'm sure tons of amateurs would play their heart out for a chance to get interviewed with Gyuri and be on stage and stuff. Plus I think there might actually be people who would watch.
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On November 07 2018 07:57 fronkschnonk wrote:This is what I suggested in the region-lock-thread: Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 19:20 fronkschnonk wrote:I think there could be a Code A for GSL which would feature 20 additional spots to the 32 players of Code S. I suggested this before: 1. financing: GSL vs the World (94k $ prizemoney) could be cancelled. 31,3k $ prizemoney per season of code A would be enough. Costs for accomodation and flights would also be saved and thus available for studio costs etc. 2. Format:Code A + Show Spoiler +- 4 groups of 8 players, round robin format = 32 players
- top 3 of each group (or top 12 of all players if another format) advances to code S = 12 players advancing
The amount of players could be adjusted to 28 or 24 with groups of 7 or 6 players, if there aren't enough players who try to qualify Code S + Show Spoiler +- 25th-32nd of code S goes down to code A = 8 players
- 17th-24th of Code S has to fight in relegation matches - top 4 stay in code S, last 4 go to code A
This way we'd have 12 players who are seeded into next code A (3 in each group) - the other 20 (or 16 or 12 if you reduce Code A spots) spots have to be filled via qualifiers Total amount of players in codeA+codeS would be 52 (or 48 or 44) 3. Bonus idea:Winners of qualifier-groups could compete for 4 spots into the relegation matches of Code S. Then we had 4 players staying or advancing to code S and 8 players going to Code A. This way we had a bigger fluctuation of players in Code S which was an issue in early Code S/Code A format in 2011/12. Also it would create the possibility for cool newcomer stories and great players wouldn't get stuck in Code A when they actually could compete on Code S level. The question remains if there would be enough players for such a system. We would need at least 12 additional players for a serious competition in Code A (else Code A would look ridiculous). Based on last Code S qualifiers this could be: Trust, Taeja, Byul, Patience, Creator, SuperNova, TOP, Labyrinth, Spear, Fantasy, Prince, Rookie
You talk about GSL vs the world being cancelled in terms of cost saved... How would Code A pull the same number of viewers as GSL vs the World? there' simply no sense in cancelling a profitable event for a non profitable event.
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I think they should create a global challenger league that's similar to premier league, except that it's a global event. Have qualifiers for each region as well as a wildcard challenger. Then, run it online like prior WCS seasons except for like the top 8 or something. To make sure that good players don't just stomp everyone, put a WCS Global/KR point cap on the tournament so that if people reach a certain number of either WCS Global/KR points, they cannot continue to compete.
Part of people's complaints have also been that the current WCS system doesn't do enough to help out people who fall out in challenger. This league can help those players as well as encourage rookies in the WCS Korea system.
Running it online also has the added benefit of greatly reducing costs. You don't have to fly anyone out or use studio time to do it. And if there needs to be an offline portion, only do it in the playoffs.
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On November 07 2018 08:12 Charoisaur wrote:
region-lock GSL so newcomers won't have to compete with ~10 top tier foreigners in the qualifiers and actually have a shot at breaking into the scene.
I don't understand, Koreans are supposedly so much better than foreigners, why would those superior beings need this to beat trash players like neeb, reynor or Serral ? :/
It won't change much, like the gsk 2017 or the s1 2018, the best koreans will still benefit of it but not the "new blood" locked in ro32. A better repartition of the price with a global would be better. However the thing that some don't consider is from 2013-8 there have been little to no new blood, talent pool of Korea is reduced because young koreans do not play sc2.
Edit : I don't remember but the all code a version has little audience right? Apart from a final with Curious, I don't think I saw any match.
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Here is my idea about funding a Korean rookie team:
If somehow we get some money from somewhere it would be cool to cast 4 Code A players to form a rookie-team with a teamhouse and a coach (perhaps somehow in cooperation with foreigner house?). As long as the players requalify for Code A the next season they will remain in the team. If not, another Code A player will be casted. This obviously would have to be restarted each year in order to give chances to new rookies.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 07 2018 17:00 stilt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 08:12 Charoisaur wrote:
region-lock GSL so newcomers won't have to compete with ~10 top tier foreigners in the qualifiers and actually have a shot at breaking into the scene. I don't understand, Koreans are supposedly so much better than foreigners, why would those superior beings need this to beat trash players like neeb, reynor or Serral ? :/ It won't change much, like the gsk 2017 or the s1 2018, the best koreans will still benefit of it but not the "new blood" locked in ro32. A better repartition of the price with a global would be better. However the thing that some don't consider is from 2013-8 there have been little to no new blood, talent pool of Korea is reduced because young koreans do not play sc2. Edit : I don't remember but the all code a version has little audience right? Apart from a final with Curious, I don't think I saw any match.
Ro32 3rd & 4th place is 2.7k USD. While this isn't HUGE MONEY, OMG, $O$. It's still enough to interest rookies. These rookies are not on KeSPA team, Koreans are not born with SC profeciency(SURPRISE!!!!!) therefore these human beings need a help to reach those 2.7k USD. This is by far the easiest and most fair solution to begin with
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On November 07 2018 16:03 FvRGg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 07:57 fronkschnonk wrote:This is what I suggested in the region-lock-thread: On November 06 2018 19:20 fronkschnonk wrote:I think there could be a Code A for GSL which would feature 20 additional spots to the 32 players of Code S. I suggested this before: 1. financing: GSL vs the World (94k $ prizemoney) could be cancelled. 31,3k $ prizemoney per season of code A would be enough. Costs for accomodation and flights would also be saved and thus available for studio costs etc. 2. Format:Code A + Show Spoiler +- 4 groups of 8 players, round robin format = 32 players
- top 3 of each group (or top 12 of all players if another format) advances to code S = 12 players advancing
The amount of players could be adjusted to 28 or 24 with groups of 7 or 6 players, if there aren't enough players who try to qualify Code S + Show Spoiler +- 25th-32nd of code S goes down to code A = 8 players
- 17th-24th of Code S has to fight in relegation matches - top 4 stay in code S, last 4 go to code A
This way we'd have 12 players who are seeded into next code A (3 in each group) - the other 20 (or 16 or 12 if you reduce Code A spots) spots have to be filled via qualifiers Total amount of players in codeA+codeS would be 52 (or 48 or 44) 3. Bonus idea:Winners of qualifier-groups could compete for 4 spots into the relegation matches of Code S. Then we had 4 players staying or advancing to code S and 8 players going to Code A. This way we had a bigger fluctuation of players in Code S which was an issue in early Code S/Code A format in 2011/12. Also it would create the possibility for cool newcomer stories and great players wouldn't get stuck in Code A when they actually could compete on Code S level. The question remains if there would be enough players for such a system. We would need at least 12 additional players for a serious competition in Code A (else Code A would look ridiculous). Based on last Code S qualifiers this could be: Trust, Taeja, Byul, Patience, Creator, SuperNova, TOP, Labyrinth, Spear, Fantasy, Prince, Rookie You talk about GSL vs the world being cancelled in terms of cost saved... How would Code A pull the same number of viewers as GSL vs the World? there' simply no sense in cancelling a profitable event for a non profitable event.
I don't think that GSL vs the world was profitable at all. All of SC2-Blizz events are basically a donation from Blizzard because they want to stay relevant as a big player in esports.
Also, if you add all 3 code A seasons the total viewer numbers probably won't be that much lower than those of GSL vs the world.
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Russian Federation367 Posts
The best way to bring KR SC2 alive is to bring SC2 alive worldwide. How to do it? Developers should stop acting like their game can compete in game speed with games like LoL. Overwatch, DotA and ect and realize that SC2 is a chess, not a checkers or football.
Make game strategic again like it was in SCBW and WoL to some degree. Bring SC2 back to chess state and make it cool in peoples eyes to play chess-like game. Stop trying to turn SC2 into football like game with tons of action, you just ruined it and made it a weird checkers-like game that no one cares about except for a few fans.
p.s. Sadly Activision won't do it ever. They are fine getting small amounts a money from something that they claim as a dead game. Activision never in their life cared about making a long lasting product that will give you money over a long period of time (like lol/dota), instead they are using old strategy: make a product, get as much money from it as it possible in shortest amount of time possible, leave this product dying and create a new flash that will make a burst of money and dissapear right after.
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new blood are always in GSL pre-main event but always get crushed by even the most underwhelmed pro players
the only way for us to see real new bloods is opening proleguage tournament again to motivate disbanded team like kts,samsung..ect...No other options...
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EPT
