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First of all, we must to fall on our knees and start begging korean companies to bring back teams like SKT, T1, Samsung/CJ and others. This is not a joke. Only richest can give us what we want. Loyalty In exchange for...
Meanwhile. Points system should be changed. Be more friendly to newbies. Instead of it we needs in more advanced system. Like additional points for each map that player has won. And achievements like it was shown in SSL 2017.
Separate by leagues. Code B, Code A and Code S.
Code B. Online League for masters. First place is a guaranteed spot for Code A or paid travel spot in Ro.16 WSC Circuits.
Code A. Offline League. 6k GMs. SSL 2017s format. First place is a guaranteed spot in Code S Ro.32 or paid travel spot in Ro.16 WSC Circuits.
P.S. I like group stage format from IEM Katowice.
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Nobody cares about SC2 in Korea.
There are ads about Overwatch or PUBG on buses and everywhere else. If you ask some1 about starcraft, everybody are thinking about SCBW.
SC2 is gone and never been strong in Korea for real.
Many people moved from SC2 to SCR, and many will move to WC3 'remastered' when is available.
For new blood to come, its needed some actions from Blizzard but I believe the auditory in Korea won't care about SC2 ever again.
After Blizzard's greedy actions that helped to destroy KeSPA and scared big companies away from investing in StarCraft teams and events I don't think they care about SC2 in Korea either - they'd have blizzcon cast prepared if they do... They are trying to get as much money as possible through chests but overall the state of the real RTS game is bad.
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If Code A was sustainable, it would still be around. We had the korean scene dwindling while it was around, so the idea that it is a potential solution is a farce.
Personally I would LOVE to watch a rookie tournament if it had production value. A few important things though: it would have to be very rare, maybe even once a year otherwise everyone will quickly burn out, I struggle to watch GSL as it is with life commitments. The average starcraft fan is older now, and has limited time.
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Blow the region lock as it is right now, but force players to choose either GSL or WCS for the length of a tournament.
Example :
Player A is qualified for GSL season 1 => he can't play any WCS Circuit tournament during the span of GSL season 1
Player B is not qualified for GSL S1 => he can play WCS Circuit up until it's over, and then either choose to stay in Circuit or try to qualify for GSL S2
And the other way around with GSL and WCS Circuit.
This way, better WCS players will not play GSL except if they are ready to commit to it (and it will not be the case for most of them I believe) and South Korean players not at the very top of the scene can qualify to WCS if they are good enough to do so (and some will be), but not ready yet for GSL.
The only problem with this solution are:
1/ Scheduling GSL and WCS Circuit so that one tournament does not prevent players to play multiple tournament in the other Region (except for 2 WCS circuit during 1 GSL as there is 4 WCS Circuit and 3 GSL)
2/ Finding money to flight abroad and play Circuit for lesser known SK players. (Some veterans may very well be favored by the system though.)
3/ Finding a way to make a merged and fair points system.
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On November 07 2018 20:14 Serimek wrote:
Blow the region lock as it is right now, but force players to choose either GSL or WCS for the length of a tournament.
Example :
Player A is qualified for GSL season 1 => he can't play any WCS Circuit tournament during the span of GSL season 1
Player B is not qualified for GSL S1 => he can play WCS Circuit up until it's over, and then either choose to stay in Circuit or try to qualify for GSL S2
And the other way around with GSL and WCS Circuit.
This way, better WCS players will not play GSL except if they are ready to commit to it (and it will not be the case for most of them I believe) and South Korean players not at the very top of the scene can qualify to WCS if they are good enough to do so (and some will be), but not ready yet for GSL.
The only problem with this solution are:
1/ Scheduling GSL and WCS Circuit so that one tournament does not prevent players to play multiple tournament in the other Region (except for 2 WCS circuit during 1 GSL as there is 4 WCS Circuit and 3 GSL)
2/ Finding money to flight abroad and play Circuit for lesser known SK players. (Some veterans may very well be favored by the system though.)
3/ Finding a way to make a merged and fair points system.
The thing is, Afreeca don't want this, WCS don't want this. Having foreigners in GSL adds to their view count.
We can debate all day about whether locking koreans out of WCS is fair, but locking foreigners out of GSL to make it even is not a solution.
If the problem is simply being fair to Koreans, then we should lift the lock altogether. But that's not the main problem, the system IS deliberately unfair to Koreans, and that unfairness carries a purpose with supporting the western scene.
The debatable point is - is this still necessary, nothing else.
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the ideas that get thrown around in this type of thread are really emblematic of the deeply flawed and awkward way people view korea when it comes to starcraft.
i understand since korea is one of the traditional fertile grounds for SC2 it's somewhat natural to think korean SC inherently needs to be "saved" if it dies, but it doesn't. if a given country can't sustain growth for a game then maybe the game isn't destined to be special there anymore.
trying to bribe young korean people to play starcraft doesn't change anything about the reality of public interest in the game. sc2 has had a marvelous run and it's still going, but one day it will end. koreans are not a requisite for the game to exist though.
the people who will think "if there are no koreans im not interested" - cool, so don't be interested? again, bribing people to fake caring about a game doesn't generate talent. didn't work for heroes of the storm
there cannot simply be an endless stream of blame for blizzard if the public shrugs about starcraft. the public is entitled to not give a fuck about a game even if you and i may think the game is great
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On November 07 2018 08:50 fronkschnonk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 08:12 Charoisaur wrote:
region-lock GSL so newcomers won't have to compete with ~10 top tier foreigners in the qualifiers and actually have a shot at breaking into the scene. If that was the topic I wanted to talk about I would've sticked to the region-lock thread. I don't think that region lock will solve the problem but that's not the question of this thread. The topic of this thread is how to find additional support for the Korean scene.
It is the question of the thread. If you don't want certain topics to be discussed you should state so in the OP.
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How to get new blood in this game ? Make team games viable again. My best moments since SC2 beta was not when I achieved new leagues but when I pulled fun tactics with friends.
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TBH bringing out a new game is the only way i feel. Even in the circuit scene "new guys" like serral reynor and clem started playing when the hype was real so sc2 scene in general has the same problems. I do feel its an esports problem in general. I doubt that league would get new players if worlds weren't in any news. Maybe make events for a younger audience, like age 12-16? ^^
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On November 07 2018 21:14 brickrd wrote:
the ideas that get thrown around in this type of thread are really emblematic of the deeply flawed and awkward way people view korea when it comes to starcraft.
i understand since korea is one of the traditional fertile grounds for SC2 it's somewhat natural to think korean SC inherently needs to be "saved" if it dies, but it doesn't. if a given country can't sustain growth for a game then maybe the game isn't destined to be special there anymore.
trying to bribe young korean people to play starcraft doesn't change anything about the reality of public interest in the game. sc2 has had a marvelous run and it's still going, but one day it will end. koreans are not a requisite for the game to exist though.
the people who will think "if there are no koreans im not interested" - cool, so don't be interested? again, bribing people to fake caring about a game doesn't generate talent. didn't work for heroes of the storm
there cannot simply be an endless stream of blame for blizzard if the public shrugs about starcraft. the public is entitled to not give a fuck about a game even if you and i may think the game is great
bribing people to fake caring about a game, how is it different to what blizzard does with the WCS circuit?
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Brood War is popular in Korea and there is no new blood either ( according to the ASL and KSL brackets ) . RTS are not popular enough nowadays to attract enough young passionate and talented players who could be the stars of tomorrow.
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On November 07 2018 21:14 brickrd wrote:
i understand since korea is one of the traditional fertile grounds for SC2 it's somewhat natural to think korean SC inherently needs to be "saved" if it dies, but it doesn't. if a given country can't sustain growth for a game then maybe the game isn't destined to be special there anymore.
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Ah yes because the foreign scene was totally alive before the WCS region lock! /s
In 2014 the foreign scene was basically ...Snute. Literally no other foreign player would win any games vs Koreans and no one really cared anymore. Blizzard pumped a bunch of money/effort into the scene and revitalized it. There's no reason why they shouldn't do it for Korean leagues now.
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Bring back the Courage tournaments!
Seriously as much as i disliked much of what Kespa did, they monopoly on progamer licences made people want to compete even without any prizepool with the hope of getting a license and being picked up by a pro team.
Since there s no Kespa and no Proleague, amateurs dont have much possibility to break into the scene, and the incentives arent really there either.
Bringing a sort of code A back would be nice, with some exclusivity rules, like if you made it to ro16 of code S in one of the past 2 seasons, you re not allowed to play at all.
Or a sort of Ladder based competition, like what the first and second TSL-s were for the foreigners, and you make a top 16based on ladder score (excluding code S players). I admit it would work less well, since the only option would be to play on the KR ladder, where the code S pros also practice, so it would kinda turn into a dodge-game, but maybe someone can take that idea and do someething with it.
Man, I loved TSL.
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There are several reasons why the Starcraft 2 scene isn't bringing in anyone knew in South Korea, and frankly the world.
1 - The game is just so hard to pick up and learn to play on a competitive level. For someone wanting to get into Starcraft it can take a long time to get comfortable and climb the ladder. This is just as true on a pro level as well. You get these new guys like Nightmare and Speed who can kind of compete and I'm sure spent hours and hours laddering and practicing just to make it to the ro32 and MAYBE the ro16 where the prize pool isn't anything to drool over, everyone who gets past the ro16 is just too good and has been at it for too long so the chances of beating them are slim to none.
2 - With the withdrawal of KESPA support and the team leagues disappearing left much of the excitement about competition. For me personally, and I'm sure with others as well, I was much more excited to watch Proleague than I was to watch an individual league. Not only that, but as a result there are just a small fraction of companies willing to pay and sponsor players in the area now, which results in even less money for the players hard work.
3 - This may be the smallest point of the three, but I really think Blizzard shot themselves in the foot when they didn't originally include a legitimate Korean casting team for Blizzcon. They tried to fix the situation, but it really feels like to me a band-aid fix for a large open wound. None of the GSL casters were included, which are the most widely watched and adored in the Korean scene. If I were Korean, I'd feel like Blizzard either forgot about or didn't care enough about my interests. But this is just one example of a time where Blizzard has made poor decisions that have led to the diminishing amount of viewers and players we're not seeing.
With all that being said, I don't think that Starcraft is dead or really ever will be. It seems like the people involved in the community are here for the long haul, and as long as there are people passionate enough to donate, watch, and support the players and streamers it's never going to die. So I guess to answer your question, I don't think we'll ever see new blood in South Korea. I just don't think it's possible at this point, sorry for being such a pessimist!
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 08 2018 00:16 Shock_sc2 wrote:
...
With all that being said, I don't think that Starcraft is dead or really ever will be. It seems like the people involved in the community are here for the long haul, and as long as there are people passionate enough to donate, watch, and support the players and streamers it's never going to die. So I guess to answer your question, I don't think we'll ever see new blood in South Korea. I just don't think it's possible at this point, sorry for being such a pessimist!
Unless Afreeca pays people to visit the studio(which wouldn't surprise me considering in some countries you pay strippers to attend funerals(and you pay people to attend it as well, but I remember mostly the strippers thing  )) the SC2 is* was on a little rise. The studios were filling quite nicely to the previously empty ones.
*The question is how much will they** be interested in the next season considering your #3 and maybe some other issues
** folks watching SC2 in Korea
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On November 07 2018 12:47 Brutaxilos wrote:
I think it'd be nice if a few slots of GSL was reserved for rookies. That way they'd at least get a chance to play in a televised match. Alternatively maybe just hosting a rookie only weekend tournament with minimal prize money but the full GSL cast/crew to make them feel like its a real thing. I'm sure tons of amateurs would play their heart out for a chance to get interviewed with Gyuri and be on stage and stuff. Plus I think there might actually be people who would watch.
I had the same idea. Give 1-4 spots in the ro32 to players under 21 or something like that.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 08 2018 01:11 leublix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 12:47 Brutaxilos wrote:
I think it'd be nice if a few slots of GSL was reserved for rookies. That way they'd at least get a chance to play in a televised match. Alternatively maybe just hosting a rookie only weekend tournament with minimal prize money but the full GSL cast/crew to make them feel like its a real thing. I'm sure tons of amateurs would play their heart out for a chance to get interviewed with Gyuri and be on stage and stuff. Plus I think there might actually be people who would watch. I had the same idea. Give 1-4 spots in the ro32 to players under 21 or something like that.
They can do some BO3 during the downtime in regular group matches. Bam, you don't need a special day to pay the stuff. Instead the show would take 30 minutes longer. Rookies get their airtime, we get more SC2, the offtime will be more bearable, players can take the rest before their important match. Everybody wins!
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Young players play "the latest shit". They're not going to start playing an almost 10-year old game just because. They will play what their friends play. The fact that SC2 resides in an outdated video game genre doesn't help: nobody develops 1on1 RTS games anymore, probably because nobody would play them (unless they were really a trend setting masterpiece I imagine).
You just have to accept that SC2 is not in the growth part of its life cyle. Not saying it's a ded gaem, just saying its best years are behind us.
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On November 08 2018 02:01 ZenithM wrote:
Young players play "the latest shit". They're not going to start playing an almost 10-year old game just because. They will play what their friends play. The fact that SC2 resides in an outdated video game genre doesn't help: nobody develops 1on1 RTS games anymore, probably because nobody would play them (unless they were really a trend setting masterpiece I imagine).
You just have to accept that SC2 is not in the growth part of its life cyle. Not saying it's a ded gaem, just saying its best years are behind us.
I don't think we need "young" players necessarily. Just "new" players. Besides a few players like Reynor, most WCS players are also over 20 years old (some of them much older).
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EPT
