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On November 06 2018 03:11 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 03:03 travis wrote:On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote:
GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it. this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals. "could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did. and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND. It's honestly getting absurd at this point. If you are gonna full on rage u shouldnt cherry pick facts. Maru 3 0d him in the only series they played this year. Blizzcon was super impressive but he didnt meet even 1 kr terran. Code S is more difficult 100%. Doesnt mean i dont think he can do it but its a fact. You say he won everything but winning wcs is a joke at this point so really he won blizzcon and super tournament and lost wesg and katowice. Still best foreigner ever..but get a grip on reality.
that was in march. Serral destroyed him at GSL vs the world which proved that he's superior to him. Maru continually gets slapped by koreans like sOs and Stats and people still act like he'd stand a chance against Serral LOL.
And people need to get a reality check on the skill level of WCS. maybe GSL is 10% more competitive but it's not much harder to win it than WCS. Neeb placed higher in the GSL in one try than in 4 tries in WCS. Serral is by far the best player in the world right now and him not playing vs players that are too bad to advance far enough to face him is irrelevant.
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On November 06 2018 04:34 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 03:29 Geo.Rion wrote:On November 06 2018 03:11 DomeGetta wrote:On November 06 2018 03:03 travis wrote:On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote:
GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it. this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals. "could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did. and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND. It's honestly getting absurd at this point. If you are gonna full on rage u shouldnt cherry pick facts. Maru 3 0d him in the only series they played this year. Blizzcon was super impressive but he didnt meet even 1 kr terran. Code S is more difficult 100%. Doesnt mean i dont think he can do it but its a fact. You say he won everything but winning wcs is a joke at this point so really he won blizzcon and super tournament and lost wesg and katowice. Still best foreigner ever..but get a grip on reality. I was 100% sure when TY went out in the ro8 that this shit gonna surface. bLiZZcoN doNT maTTer cuz he dindt beAT the teRRans! Yes, Maru beat him 3-0 at the start of the year, like 9 months ago, that s true any nobody is taking that away from him. 12 months ago he was still regularly losing even to EU players. Nobody was saying Serral is the best player last year. Nobody was saying it in february 2018, not many would have said he s even the best foreigner, having won just one WCS, although his play started to look very good. After he got his revenge on Classic at the 3rd place match at IEM did he start to look like he's in competition for the nr 1 spot, then he kept sweeping WCS and won GSL vs the world. That s where the hype train went out of the station, and he did deliver at Blizzcon, much to our joy. Champions dont pop out randomly out of the blue sky. You need to get so good that you can tango with the best. Then you need to get that offline experience, that big money, on stage experience when the stakes are the highest. And when you can win even in those conditions comes the next phase when everyone acknowledges you as the real threat, and they specifically prepare to take you down, you have a big ass red X mark on your head. And if you can win at the highest level with the highest stakes even so, and convincingly so, that s when you're the best. So great, Maru beat him when he was on his path to ascend. Good for him, go and watch that vod if you get so much out of it. Im not using that series to say that Maru is definitely better than Serral. I dont know who is better. There are however loads of people asserting that because Serral won blizzcon hes 100% better than Maru..bc Maru lost one series to his teamate to what was clearly build order counters in a trashed up matchup. Im pointing out that players have strengths and weaknesses. Clearly Marus biggest weakness is facing Protoss specificially one who has master crafted a counter to his style. Everything you saw from Serral this year would have to point to ZvT as his weakness as its the only matchup we saw all year that looked one sided against him. Special is the only foreign Terran who has proven to be code S capable and by far the best foreign Terran Serral had to worry about all year. Entering code S he will gaurenteed get matched up with multiple Terrans all substantially better than Special. My issue is not at all with saying that Serral could be better than Maru its with people using Blizzcon as proof of it. Its not logical.
Serral 3-0 INnoVation.
ZvT isn't a weakness of him he's perfect.
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On November 06 2018 05:48 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 05:22 Pandain wrote:
The four WCS victories aren't nothing of course, but people could easily see any top korean doing that.
And that's where you are wrong. Serral had a lot more trouble with his WCS Montreal title than he had at Blizzcon, so I'd at least exclude the Korean Zergs with the "easy" title for top koreans.
Let me give you an example.
If Stats was somehow able to enter WCS this year, and take Serral out of the equation, would you have been shocked if he had won 4 in a row? In fact, I think we would expect that to happen like 70-80% of the time.
I want to clarify that it's still remarkable, but we shouldn't be over-exaggerating it either.
I also want to clarify that honestly I think Serral, especially his play the second half of the year, could have consistently won/gone extremely far in any global event he entered, but just that we can't point to his 4 WCS wins as completely amazing. Completely amazing for a foreigner of course, but we would expect Stats or Maru or even Rogue or a number of top koreans to do the same.
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On November 06 2018 05:52 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 05:48 HolydaKing wrote:On November 06 2018 05:22 Pandain wrote:
The four WCS victories aren't nothing of course, but people could easily see any top korean doing that.
And that's where you are wrong. Serral had a lot more trouble with his WCS Montreal title than he had at Blizzcon, so I'd at least exclude the Korean Zergs with the "easy" title for top koreans. Let me give you an example. If Stats was somehow able to enter WCS this year, and take Serral out of the equation, would you have been shocked if he had won 4 in a row? In fact, I think we would expect that to happen like 70-80% of the time.
Yes, I would be. I give all of Reynor, Showtime and Neeb a decent chance against him. For Maru I wouldn't be, since EU/NA has too few (extremely) good terrans.
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On November 06 2018 05:54 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 05:52 Pandain wrote:On November 06 2018 05:48 HolydaKing wrote:On November 06 2018 05:22 Pandain wrote:
The four WCS victories aren't nothing of course, but people could easily see any top korean doing that.
And that's where you are wrong. Serral had a lot more trouble with his WCS Montreal title than he had at Blizzcon, so I'd at least exclude the Korean Zergs with the "easy" title for top koreans. Let me give you an example. If Stats was somehow able to enter WCS this year, and take Serral out of the equation, would you have been shocked if he had won 4 in a row? In fact, I think we would expect that to happen like 70-80% of the time. Yes, I would be. I give all of Reynor, Showtime and Neeb a decent chance against him.
They're all good, but Stats would still be the heavy favorite. Showtime and Neeb are probably the same level, but Stats just smacked down Showtime pretty hard.
Reynor is a god and probably a top 10 player in my book, and his wins against Classic and series against Maru and Serral testify to that, but he would still be the underdog.
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On November 06 2018 05:52 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 05:48 HolydaKing wrote:On November 06 2018 05:22 Pandain wrote:
The four WCS victories aren't nothing of course, but people could easily see any top korean doing that.
And that's where you are wrong. Serral had a lot more trouble with his WCS Montreal title than he had at Blizzcon, so I'd at least exclude the Korean Zergs with the "easy" title for top koreans. Let me give you an example. If Stats was somehow able to enter WCS this year, and take Serral out of the equation, would you have been shocked if he had won 4 in a row? In fact, I think we would expect that to happen like 70-80% of the time. I want to clarify that it's still remarkable, but we shouldn't be over-exaggerating it either. I also want to clarify that honestly I think Serral, especially his play the second half of the year, could have consistently won/gone extremely far in any global event he entered, but just that we can't point to his 4 WCS wins as completely amazing. Completely amazing for a foreigner of course, but we would expect Stats or Maru or even Rogue or a number of top koreans to do the same.
No way, the skill difference between Serral and Stats is gigantic as he trashed him in 2 separate series (Stats only won with cheese) and even Serral had trouble winning WCS with several close series. A player like Stats who is so much worse than Serral would at most win 1-2 WCS seasons in a year.
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On November 06 2018 05:50 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 04:34 DomeGetta wrote:On November 06 2018 03:29 Geo.Rion wrote:On November 06 2018 03:11 DomeGetta wrote:On November 06 2018 03:03 travis wrote:On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote:
GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it. this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals. "could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did. and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND. It's honestly getting absurd at this point. If you are gonna full on rage u shouldnt cherry pick facts. Maru 3 0d him in the only series they played this year. Blizzcon was super impressive but he didnt meet even 1 kr terran. Code S is more difficult 100%. Doesnt mean i dont think he can do it but its a fact. You say he won everything but winning wcs is a joke at this point so really he won blizzcon and super tournament and lost wesg and katowice. Still best foreigner ever..but get a grip on reality. I was 100% sure when TY went out in the ro8 that this shit gonna surface. bLiZZcoN doNT maTTer cuz he dindt beAT the teRRans! Yes, Maru beat him 3-0 at the start of the year, like 9 months ago, that s true any nobody is taking that away from him. 12 months ago he was still regularly losing even to EU players. Nobody was saying Serral is the best player last year. Nobody was saying it in february 2018, not many would have said he s even the best foreigner, having won just one WCS, although his play started to look very good. After he got his revenge on Classic at the 3rd place match at IEM did he start to look like he's in competition for the nr 1 spot, then he kept sweeping WCS and won GSL vs the world. That s where the hype train went out of the station, and he did deliver at Blizzcon, much to our joy. Champions dont pop out randomly out of the blue sky. You need to get so good that you can tango with the best. Then you need to get that offline experience, that big money, on stage experience when the stakes are the highest. And when you can win even in those conditions comes the next phase when everyone acknowledges you as the real threat, and they specifically prepare to take you down, you have a big ass red X mark on your head. And if you can win at the highest level with the highest stakes even so, and convincingly so, that s when you're the best. So great, Maru beat him when he was on his path to ascend. Good for him, go and watch that vod if you get so much out of it. Im not using that series to say that Maru is definitely better than Serral. I dont know who is better. There are however loads of people asserting that because Serral won blizzcon hes 100% better than Maru..bc Maru lost one series to his teamate to what was clearly build order counters in a trashed up matchup. Im pointing out that players have strengths and weaknesses. Clearly Marus biggest weakness is facing Protoss specificially one who has master crafted a counter to his style. Everything you saw from Serral this year would have to point to ZvT as his weakness as its the only matchup we saw all year that looked one sided against him. Special is the only foreign Terran who has proven to be code S capable and by far the best foreign Terran Serral had to worry about all year. Entering code S he will gaurenteed get matched up with multiple Terrans all substantially better than Special. My issue is not at all with saying that Serral could be better than Maru its with people using Blizzcon as proof of it. Its not logical. Serral 3-0 INnoVation. ZvT isn't a weakness of him he's perfect.
That doesnt count though, we all know he would have lost 0-7 in a best of three against even Bunny, let alone TY or Maru, I mean you dont really need more proof than how cowardly he dodged all the terrans at Blizzcon, and only faced trash tier innovation in GSL vs the world.
Therefore we must conclude his ZvT is worthless, and anyways, nobody cares or even watches all these weekend tournaments
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On November 06 2018 04:13 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 04:00 Waxangel wrote:
TFW teamliquid loses 20% of its traffic as anti-Serral haters burrow for a few months :'(
are you kidding me? there are people discrediting him in this very thread, dedicated to his victory
Yep, the toxicity of some like Charoisaur is pretty strong, that's a bit a shame of trolling the thread dedicated to the first foreigner win on the wcs global even but I am sure he will get ultimetely warned or banned if he follows too much this road.
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On November 06 2018 06:10 stilt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 04:13 Geo.Rion wrote:are you kidding me? there are people discrediting him in this very thread, dedicated to his victory Yep, the toxicity of some like Charoisaur is pretty strong, that's a bit a shame of trolling the thread dedicated to the first foreigner win on the wcs global even but I am sure he will get ultimetely warned or banned if he follows too much this road.
you confuse me with someone? I'm praising him the entire time.
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On November 06 2018 05:48 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 03:11 DomeGetta wrote:On November 06 2018 03:03 travis wrote:On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote:
GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it. this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals. "could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did. and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND. It's honestly getting absurd at this point. If you are gonna full on rage u shouldnt cherry pick facts. Maru 3 0d him in the only series they played this year. Blizzcon was super impressive but he didnt meet even 1 kr terran. Code S is more difficult 100%. Doesnt mean i dont think he can do it but its a fact. You say he won everything but winning wcs is a joke at this point so really he won blizzcon and super tournament and lost wesg and katowice. Still best foreigner ever..but get a grip on reality. that was in march. Serral destroyed him at GSL vs the world which proved that he's superior to him. Maru continually gets slapped by koreans like sOs and Stats and people still act like he'd stand a chance against Serral LOL. And people need to get a reality check on the skill level of WCS. maybe GSL is 10% more competitive but it's not much harder to win it than WCS. Neeb placed higher in the GSL in one try than in 4 tries in WCS. Serral is by far the best player in the world right now and him not playing vs players that are too bad to advance far enough to face him is irrelevant.
Mmmm... see I think this goes too far in the other direction. It's possible to go too far in the direction of Maru, by saying WCS are trash tournaments or that Serral got lucky, or something; but you and a few others are going too far in the direction of Serral by saying he's "by far the best" and dismissing Maru as a "too bad to advance far enough to face him". It was a good win. An historic win. And it very well might be the case that Serral is the better player and the best player. But it's not like foreigners haven't won tournaments with Koreans in them before. In fact, there are many foreigners who have won tournaments with Koreans in them. Serrral is different because he showed a much higher level of dominance during the year and also won the World Championship tournament; but it's not "absurd" for someone to say they think Maru had the better year or might be the better player overall.
If Serral and Maru had switched places at the beginning of the year, would Maru have a better chance of winning 4 WCS or would Serral have a better chance of winning 3 GSL? Who knows, but I think the aligulac stats might favor Maru in that scenario. So if someone says they think Maru is better they have a good argument.
But at the end of the day, Serral is the World Champ and Maru went out in Ro8.
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On November 06 2018 06:13 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 06:10 stilt wrote:On November 06 2018 04:13 Geo.Rion wrote:are you kidding me? there are people discrediting him in this very thread, dedicated to his victory Yep, the toxicity of some like Charoisaur is pretty strong, that's a bit a shame of trolling the thread dedicated to the first foreigner win on the wcs global even but I am sure he will get ultimetely warned or banned if he follows too much this road. you confuse me with someone? I'm praising him the entire time.
You must think your snarky comments are the height of cunning. Are you giggling in front of your screen about how damn clever you are?
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On November 06 2018 05:44 deltahf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 04:58 Sphairos wrote:
Oh yeah, Einstein, you sure know Starcraft and everything better than me. Late game doesn't mean a hard game : a diamond or plat could draw you into a late game, but gonna lose anyway. Serral was never in danger in that 4th game. And the only one he gave to Rogue was because of an uncharacteristic rush/all-in. Finally we agree, especially on that diamond or plat could draw me into a late game because one diamond just won a game against Serral on Sunday. I always like to end discussion with mutual agreement.
It's not an agreement, it's just me making fun of you: if you care to read my comment above, I'm saying that rogue is definitely one of the best in world, you genius ^^
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On November 06 2018 06:19 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 06:13 Charoisaur wrote:On November 06 2018 06:10 stilt wrote:On November 06 2018 04:13 Geo.Rion wrote:are you kidding me? there are people discrediting him in this very thread, dedicated to his victory Yep, the toxicity of some like Charoisaur is pretty strong, that's a bit a shame of trolling the thread dedicated to the first foreigner win on the wcs global even but I am sure he will get ultimetely warned or banned if he follows too much this road. you confuse me with someone? I'm praising him the entire time. You must think your snarky comments are the height of cunning. Are you giggling in front of your screen about how damn clever you are?
no snarky comments here - you (and a few others) have just convinced me that Serral is the best.
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On November 06 2018 06:00 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 05:52 Pandain wrote:On November 06 2018 05:48 HolydaKing wrote:On November 06 2018 05:22 Pandain wrote:
The four WCS victories aren't nothing of course, but people could easily see any top korean doing that.
And that's where you are wrong. Serral had a lot more trouble with his WCS Montreal title than he had at Blizzcon, so I'd at least exclude the Korean Zergs with the "easy" title for top koreans. Let me give you an example. If Stats was somehow able to enter WCS this year, and take Serral out of the equation, would you have been shocked if he had won 4 in a row? In fact, I think we would expect that to happen like 70-80% of the time. I want to clarify that it's still remarkable, but we shouldn't be over-exaggerating it either. I also want to clarify that honestly I think Serral, especially his play the second half of the year, could have consistently won/gone extremely far in any global event he entered, but just that we can't point to his 4 WCS wins as completely amazing. Completely amazing for a foreigner of course, but we would expect Stats or Maru or even Rogue or a number of top koreans to do the same. No way, the skill difference between Serral and Stats is gigantic as he trashed him in 2 separate series (Stats only won with cheese) and even Serral had trouble winning WCS with several close series. A player like Stats who is so much worse than Serral would at most win 1-2 WCS seasons in a year.
Since when we call timing push a cheese?
As you said earlier about the matches of Maru vs sOs and Stats. Do not forget that the matchups in starcraft are often like rock paper scissor. It is not like when player 1 beats player 2 and player 2 beats player 3 then player 1 > player 3.
For example Maru has problems with sOs but Serral wiped the floor with sOs in the group stage. On the other hand Maru regularly dominates Neeb in matches. Is he like 4-0 in 20 minutes from the matches of GSL groups and wcs global finals? Yet Neeb is first player to end Serrals winning streak in convincing way (I get it was in an online tournament but Serral is not supposed to lose to Neeb 3:0 even in these matches).
Lambo lost to Serral 2:3 in Montreal yet there was no chance in groups vs Maru for him.
TY has usually problems with Neeb but TY was a huge obstacle in GSL finals season 3 for Maru and Neeb has problems with Dark.
The list could go on and on.
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Holy crap... Sc2 is great. Reading this article is like reliving Saturday night! Ty!
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Cmon Koreaboos ! Serral is the best player of 2018, fact. Best foreigner of all time, fact. And maybe the best SC2 player all time.
Bayern Munich wins the German Championship.
Manchester United wins the Premiere League.
Bayern Munich wins the Championsleague.
Manchester United so is much better cause the Premiere League is much harder to win !!!!11111
Maru only got 3 GSL titles cause Serral was not in there...
BONJWA
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On November 06 2018 06:36 derpistole wrote:
Cmon Koreaboos ! Serral is the best player of 2018, fact. Best foreigner of all time, fact. And maybe the best SC2 player all time.
Bayern Munich wins the German Championship.
Manchester United wins the Premiere League.
Bayern Munich wins the Championsleague.
Manchester United so is much better cause the Premiere League is much harder to win !!!!11111
Maru only got 3 GSL titles cause Serral was not in there...
BONJWA
lmao what a way to bait korean elitist and PL elitist
gl
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On November 06 2018 02:31 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 00:09 Charoisaur wrote:On November 05 2018 14:34 ReditusSum wrote:On November 05 2018 08:42 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On November 05 2018 08:34 ReditusSum wrote:On November 05 2018 05:02 Dave4 wrote:6 Premier victories in one calendar year. And he can still make it 7. Absolutely Savage. Poll: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)Best Player of 2018 (485) 63% Best foreigner of 2018 (128) 17% GOAT (106) 14% Best Zerg of 2018 (26) 3% Noob foreigner (23) 3% 768 total votes Your vote: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory) (Vote): Best foreigner of 2018
(Vote): Best Zerg of 2018
(Vote): Best Player of 2018
(Vote): GOAT
(Vote): Noob foreigner
He is a beast and all those wins are crazy, but three consecutive GSLs is still more impressive for me. Best Foreigner of All Time and Current Best Zerg (possibly in the running for best all time) but best player? Nah, still Maru. I sucks to be Maru right now. Any other year in SC2 history winning all 3 GSLs would cement you as best player no questions asked, but now Serral throws some doubt on that. Well.. now that I'm looking at Serral's actual tournament wins, his run looks much less impressive. Obviously he gets props for winning the World Championship, but Maru is far, far ahead in my opinion. Maru won tournaments against objectively better opponents, Serral won the big, subjective story-line. Nah, winning 3 GSLs is nothing. If Serral had competed in GSL Maru would have won 0 GSLs. WCS is harder than GSL anyway (Serral dropped more maps vs Scarlett, Lambo and Reynor than vs top koreans at blizzcon) So Serral won 4 tournaments harder than the GSL and on top of that GSLvsTW and Blizzcon. No series dropped in 9 months. Definitely GOAT and bonjwa now. But keep denying it korean elitists. So funny to see the haters doing mental gymnastics to discredit his win. It's good that Maru got eliminated early. Serral would have demolished him in 15 minutes. He's just on another level than any player ever was. Not saying you're wrong about that Serral probably destroying Maru if they would have met but calling Serral GOAT is that just troll bait? I mean bonjwa you can argue for, GOAT you kinda can't. The only reason Maru was in the discussions was because he has shown years of S level results before winning three GSLs in a row. Serral literally has nothing pre 2018, he isn't even top top 5 GOAT, not even close. One year of top results is not enough to get you past players that have done almost the same thing but also more for several more years. Best in the world for sure, better than Maru based on results for sure but greatest of all time? Lets not get ahead of ourselves here.
sorry, with GOAT I meant best in terms of skill level not in terms of achievements.
Since that's typically not what Goat means I probably used the wrong term.
But in terms of skill level he's definitely the best ever - he does things we have never seen before. Perfect defense, multitasking and lategame play. Only peak Inno came somewhat close.
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I have to agree, I think that Maru and a few others have remarkedly better micro than Serral, but it is not like Zerg was ever a micro heavy race, so it doesn't really damper Serral's overall skill too much.
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On November 06 2018 05:48 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 03:11 DomeGetta wrote:On November 06 2018 03:03 travis wrote:On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote:
GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it. this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals. "could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did. and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND. It's honestly getting absurd at this point. If you are gonna full on rage u shouldnt cherry pick facts. Maru 3 0d him in the only series they played this year. Blizzcon was super impressive but he didnt meet even 1 kr terran. Code S is more difficult 100%. Doesnt mean i dont think he can do it but its a fact. You say he won everything but winning wcs is a joke at this point so really he won blizzcon and super tournament and lost wesg and katowice. Still best foreigner ever..but get a grip on reality. that was in march. Serral destroyed him at GSL vs the world which proved that he's superior to him. Maru continually gets slapped by koreans like sOs and Stats and people still act like he'd stand a chance against Serral LOL. And people need to get a reality check on the skill level of WCS. maybe GSL is 10% more competitive but it's not much harder to win it than WCS. Neeb placed higher in the GSL in one try than in 4 tries in WCS. Serral is by far the best player in the world right now and him not playing vs players that are too bad to advance far enough to face him is irrelevant.
Yah sorry dont agree. Serral "destroyed" him im a bo1 showmatch that was for nothing. Maru destroyed him when it counted for 200K 3 to 0. Beating inno is impressive no doubt. But you cant just make up that all the sudden hes good enough to do that to Maru. Just like I cant say he isnt because we dont know. Neither of us lol. Hopefully we will get to see.
Maru made lambo look absurd in their match..supposedly the second best zerg..to just speculate that Serrals tvz is 10 x lambos is a bit of nonsense. Ill give him the 3 0 vs inno thats without a doubt impressive but it doesnt gift him being better than Maru.
Speaking of that.. we should try to figure out a way to crowd fund a best of 21 or something headsup! Would just have to figure out how to make latency work..bet we could raise a shitton lol.
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EPT
