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On November 06 2018 03:11 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 03:03 travis wrote:On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote:
GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it. this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals. "could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did. and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND. It's honestly getting absurd at this point. If you are gonna full on rage u shouldnt cherry pick facts. Maru 3 0d him in the only series they played this year. Blizzcon was super impressive but he didnt meet even 1 kr terran. Code S is more difficult 100%. Doesnt mean i dont think he can do it but its a fact. You say he won everything but winning wcs is a joke at this point so really he won blizzcon and super tournament and lost wesg and katowice. Still best foreigner ever..but get a grip on reality.
im not "raging" and im not "cherry picking facts". yes, maru 3-0'd him at the start of the year but that was nearly a full year ago, and clearly a lot has happened with serral in that time
the rest of your post gets so ridiculous there is no point in continuing my reply
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On November 06 2018 03:11 DomeGetta wrote:
Code S is more difficult 100%. ... its a fact.
see im having a problem with how easily you invented this "fact".
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China6330 Posts
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United States33502 Posts
TFW teamliquid loses 20% of its traffic as anti-Serral haters burrow for a few months :'(
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Fantastic end of the year, well done to SerralGod. Honourable commiserations and love to Stats and Rogue, not so much Dark but I think he was genuinely flabbergasted.
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are you kidding me? there are people discrediting him in this very thread, dedicated to his victory
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China6330 Posts
On November 06 2018 04:07 DSK wrote:
Fantastic end of the year, well done to SerralGod. Honourable commiserations and love to Stats and Rogue, not so much Dark but I think he was genuinely flabbergasted.
Stats put up a very good fight, but Rogue and Dark weren't even close, Serral systematically destroyed them.
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On November 06 2018 03:31 Nakajin wrote:
Well first saying that Serral beat Rogue or Dark like they were diamond is ridiculous, sure he his better then them, but it was still two very hard fought series. But my point was that Life was one of SC2 great winning tournament consistly for all of his career (also he only ever lost game out of match fixing, not won them), now maybe it's less impressive then what Serral did but it's not the point. The point is that Life managed to make every bad decision, burn hundreds of thousand of US dollars and got caught cheating fairly easily. He wasn't some kind of mastermind,in fact he acted like an idiot outside of game, but he was still one heck of a Starcraft player.
Being good at Starcraft, or any other sports like activity, doesn't mean you are a "genius" if such a thing exist, it just mean you are very very good at this one thing which you worked very hard at. Now of course there's skills and work ethics you acquire doing that, that can be very useful in other activities.
I dunno, he made Zest , Dark, Rogue look like they were diamond. If he beat Stats 4-0 , he woulda made him look declassed too. But all 4 are the best players in the world. You admit that "sure he his better then them". Then , "sure , he is better than the world's best"... Sounds odd, doesn't it ?
"was still two very hard fought series. "
was it though??? 2-0 Zest, 3-0 Dark, 3-1 Rogue, is that "hard fought" ??? (2-0 SoS too)
"Being good at Starcraft, or any other sports like activity, doesn't mean you are a "genius" if such a thing exist"
1) Geniuses exist. I am an academic linguist , and I ve met a couple of people, who are geniuses. They speak a bizarre number of very different languages fluently and learn any language in days effortlessly. The estimate is that there is 1, 2, 3 such people in a millon, they are very rare. Such language competence is against all odds, as the dominant linguistic theory (of Noam Chomsky) predicts that it's impossible, because only little children have such ability, after an 8 years mark the "phonetic window" closes and an effortless acquisition of language is impossible. Yet they exist. They are exceptional and extraordinary in their abilities. This is what is called "a genius". Also those people are very smart.
2) Why then chess players are considered very smart ? Because it takes an extremely high IQ to be a chess Grandmaster. Starcraft is an intellectual game , alike chess.
3) You confuse intelligence with socially accepted and approved behaviour, considered "rational". Highly intelligent people do all kinds of messed up stuff. Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber was a young mathematical prodigy, a genius with a PhD at 24 ("Allen Shields, his doctoral advisor, called it "the best I have ever directed",[23] and Maxwell Reade, a member of his dissertation committee, said "I would guess that maybe 10 or 12 men in the country understood or appreciated it."[35][8]"), "the youngest ever mathematics professor at UC Berkeley", and he ended up living in a cabin in the woods and bombing people via post =)
It doesn't mean he was not and is not exceptionally smart.
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On November 06 2018 03:39 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 03:11 DomeGetta wrote:
Code S is more difficult 100%. ... its a fact. see im having a problem with how easily you invented this "fact".
This is not even disputed among any of the casters or reputable people in the scene. I havent heard anyone ever try to argue this on TL even the most bias of fans rofl. Site me a professional person who has tried to argue this?
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On November 06 2018 03:29 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 03:11 DomeGetta wrote:On November 06 2018 03:03 travis wrote:On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote:
GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it. this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals. "could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did. and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND. It's honestly getting absurd at this point. If you are gonna full on rage u shouldnt cherry pick facts. Maru 3 0d him in the only series they played this year. Blizzcon was super impressive but he didnt meet even 1 kr terran. Code S is more difficult 100%. Doesnt mean i dont think he can do it but its a fact. You say he won everything but winning wcs is a joke at this point so really he won blizzcon and super tournament and lost wesg and katowice. Still best foreigner ever..but get a grip on reality. I was 100% sure when TY went out in the ro8 that this shit gonna surface. bLiZZcoN doNT maTTer cuz he dindt beAT the teRRans! Yes, Maru beat him 3-0 at the start of the year, like 9 months ago, that s true any nobody is taking that away from him. 12 months ago he was still regularly losing even to EU players. Nobody was saying Serral is the best player last year. Nobody was saying it in february 2018, not many would have said he s even the best foreigner, having won just one WCS, although his play started to look very good. After he got his revenge on Classic at the 3rd place match at IEM did he start to look like he's in competition for the nr 1 spot, then he kept sweeping WCS and won GSL vs the world. That s where the hype train went out of the station, and he did deliver at Blizzcon, much to our joy. Champions dont pop out randomly out of the blue sky. You need to get so good that you can tango with the best. Then you need to get that offline experience, that big money, on stage experience when the stakes are the highest. And when you can win even in those conditions comes the next phase when everyone acknowledges you as the real threat, and they specifically prepare to take you down, you have a big ass red X mark on your head. And if you can win at the highest level with the highest stakes even so, and convincingly so, that s when you're the best. So great, Maru beat him when he was on his path to ascend. Good for him, go and watch that vod if you get so much out of it.
Im not using that series to say that Maru is definitely better than Serral. I dont know who is better. There are however loads of people asserting that because Serral won blizzcon hes 100% better than Maru..bc Maru lost one series to his teamate to what was clearly build order counters in a trashed up matchup. Im pointing out that players have strengths and weaknesses. Clearly Marus biggest weakness is facing Protoss specificially one who has master crafted a counter to his style. Everything you saw from Serral this year would have to point to ZvT as his weakness as its the only matchup we saw all year that looked one sided against him. Special is the only foreign Terran who has proven to be code S capable and by far the best foreign Terran Serral had to worry about all year. Entering code S he will gaurenteed get matched up with multiple Terrans all substantially better than Special. My issue is not at all with saying that Serral could be better than Maru its with people using Blizzcon as proof of it. Its not logical.
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On November 06 2018 03:31 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 02:51 Sphairos wrote:On November 06 2018 01:20 Nakajin wrote:On November 06 2018 00:45 Sphairos wrote:
Serral is Mozart of StarCraft.
BTW, what do we know about Serral's personality ? He must have some extraordinary personal features , as an extremely high IQ or something of the like. I mean, EVERYONE is working hard , literally everyone . Just watch HeroMarine's or SpeCial's streams, or Korean players. Yet Serral beats everyone like gold leaguers... In boxing we call it a 'declass'... The word around town is that he's a fairly private and down to earth guy, dosen't party much and never really gets angry at the game. He comes from a competitive familly and his brother was also a very good sc2 players. He dosen't grind as much as other but he make sure he practice the right way. As for his "IQ" or whatever, well Life was one of the most succesfull player of all time and also a general morron, so we can't say much else than Serral is an amazing SC2 talent, dosen't mean he's some kind of other wordly genious. (I am not saying he's stupid of course, and he does seem like a pretty nice guy) But my man ... Life was a cheater -- we don't know which games were fixed and how... Serral also has been much more consistent than Life : Serral has won almost everything important this year, Life got himself only a GSL and World Cup, and it was like in 5 month. Actually, I would not have been surprized , if Serral beat Life the same way he beat Rogue and Dark -- like they were diamond or smth. I ve been Serral's fan for over 5 years, I was startled by his uncanny smooth and clean performances first time I saw him play (even though he lost then). I ve seen him live a couple of times : I remember at Dreamhack Leipzig I observed him and his mates (Welmu and someone else) talk , fool around etc. It was then when I first started to think , that there is something "not normal" about his mind -- meaning , "above normal". He is super friendly and down to earth, like your good ol buddy next door, but when he starts to play , he's doing something different... How come these 2 things get along in him so smoothly? ... To me it's something extraordinary. It's a pure talent. Then, I wonder, how does (or will) that extraordinary talent translate into other areas of human activity -- like, math, programming, business etc. Well first saying that Serral beat Rogue or Dark like they were diamond is ridiculous, sure he his better then them, but it was still two very hard fought series. But my point was that Life was one of SC2 great winning tournament consistly for all of his career (also he only ever lost game out of match fixing, not won them), now maybe it's less impressive then what Serral did but it's not the point. The point is that Life managed to make every bad decision, burn hundreds of thousand of US dollars and got caught cheating fairly easily. He wasn't some kind of mastermind,in fact he acted like an idiot outside of game, but he was still one heck of a Starcraft player. Being good at Starcraft, or any other sports like activity, doesn't mean you are a "genius" if such a thing exist, it just mean you are very very good at this one thing which you worked very hard at. Now of course there's skills and work ethics you acquire doing that, that can be very useful in other activities.
I think that arguing with a guy who thinks that is possible people were bribed to lose against Life in his matchfixing scandal is pointless. Or with someone who thinks that Rogue was smashed like a diamond even though it was 3:1 for Serral and game 4 went deep into the lategame.
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I could not watch during the weekend, and I managed to avoid spoilers and any kind of news.. as soon as I was back yesterday evening I binge watched all of the quarter-semis-finals and.... oh well, that was something.
I will re-watch semis and finals tonight, it's honestly a bit overwhelming.. such amazing games, so epic and hyped!
This has to be one of my favorite moments in esports! Soooo cool to see not only the amazing display of skill in the matches, but everything around it.
I want to thank all the casters / support team around the SC2 Blizzcon.. it's so awesome to see that you're all big big SC2 nerds like us, who get emotional in front of Serral dominating Blizzcon  great job you all!
p.s. The Pylon show live with Day[9] and one of the BW:remastered dev was really nice as well!
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On November 05 2018 04:30 Qwyn wrote:
This is a moment that will never be forgotten in all of StarCraft history, congratulations Serral! There will never be another player quite like you.
I agree !!!!
Amazing 2018 Run ! 100% that is awesome !
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On November 06 2018 04:34 deltahf wrote:
I think that arguing with a guy who thinks that is possible people were bribed to lose against Life in his matchfixing scandal is pointless. Or with someone who thinks that Rogue was smashed like a diamond even though it was 3:1 for Serral and game 4 went deep into the lategame.
Oh yeah, Einstein, you sure know Starcraft and everything better than me. Late game doesn't mean a hard game : a diamond or plat could draw you into a late game, but gonna lose anyway. Serral was never in danger in that 4th game. And the only one he gave to Rogue was because of an uncharacteristic rush/all-in.
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United States33502 Posts
What happened to Rodya? It's like that raccoon that always woke me up by rummaging in the trash at night suddenly disappeared, and now I'm worried
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Obviously the best year of any foreigner by far, and amazing how I'm pretty sure 99% of people would agree he's the best foreigner of all time after just one year.
It's a shame he doesn't have the chance to compete in more global events, because I'm pretty sure he would continue to wreck face in those scenarios. I hope he gets the chance before his form declines, which ultimately happens to all players.
In my eyes Maru still has a way more impressive year. I mean Serral's run is amazing, but I feel like he's basically just a top top korean who won one weekender and than Blizzcon. It would be like Rogue last year, with winning Super Tournament and than Blizzcon. The four WCS victories aren't nothing of course, but people could easily see any top korean doing that.
But three GSL victories in a row is just... mind boggling.
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Hope to see Serral play in GSL next year!
I really wanted to see Maru vs Serral, but SOS prepared too well for Maru.
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On November 06 2018 04:58 Sphairos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 04:34 deltahf wrote:
I think that arguing with a guy who thinks that is possible people were bribed to lose against Life in his matchfixing scandal is pointless. Or with someone who thinks that Rogue was smashed like a diamond even though it was 3:1 for Serral and game 4 went deep into the lategame.
Oh yeah, Einstein, you sure know Starcraft and everything better than me. Late game doesn't mean a hard game : a diamond or plat could draw you into a late game, but gonna lose anyway. Serral was never in danger in that 4th game. And the only one he gave to Rogue was because of an uncharacteristic rush/all-in.
Finally we agree, especially on that diamond or plat could draw me into a late game because one diamond just won a game against Serral on Sunday.
I always like to end discussion with mutual agreement.
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On November 06 2018 05:22 Pandain wrote:
The four WCS victories aren't nothing of course, but people could easily see any top korean doing that.
And that's where you are wrong. Serral had a lot more trouble with his WCS Montreal title than he had at Blizzcon, so I'd at least exclude the Korean Zergs with the "easy" title for top koreans. Protoss players could also fall to Reynor or Showtime for example.
edit: Oh and I forgot Neeb. ^^ If you haven't watch Reynor vs Serral at WCS Montreal, at least game 6 is madness and for me the best game of the year.
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EPT
