The 2018 WCS Global Finals have concluded, and for the first time a non-Korean has claimed the biggest trophy in StarCraft II. Serral, coming into the tournament as one of two favorites, fully delivered on his potential as he overcame previous champion Rogue and the best Protoss in the world, Stats, on the final day of WCS 2018.
sOs and Stats met in the first semifinal, opening their series on Blueshift. Stats chose a quick expansion, while sOs threw down a robotics facility and even robotics bay for disruptors on one bay. He harassed a bit with adepts in a warp prism before gathering his army and attacking Stats' natural. Stats was able to defend with the help of clutch prism micro, while he backstabbed sOs' main base with a handful adepts. sOs was forced into an even more committed all-in, but Stats calmly retreated to the high ground and picked away at his opponent's army with his immortals in a prism, then pushed down to defend the nexus. sOs saw his army disappear and tapped out.
Acid Plant saw mirrored builds from the two Protoss, with an early twilight council for blink, followed by expansions. The game built up slowly as both players continued down the exact same path, with charge, a forge and immortal production. sOs finally deviated from the norm as he skipped on +2 attack in favor of more units and attacked into Stats. A forward blink shot down sOs' warp prism and Stats held quite comfortably. With his upgrade advantage kicking in, he simply moved across for a counterattack and rolled over sOs.
Cerulean fall saw similar openings from both again, with stargate the choice of tech for both. sOs, though, opened with an oracle while Stats chose the advantageous phoenix first. The oracle was deflected easily and sOs, realizing the trouble he was in, threw down a dark shrine to catch Stats off guard as he built his own phoenix count. Stats, having added a second stargate, quickly chronoboosted out two oracles and an observer, and despite losing a few probes and some mining time, came out ahead in probes and fully ready to defend sOs' blink/phoenix attack. The push was completely shut down by Stats' phoenixes and ground units, and sOs never recovered. A desperate late attempt never even got off the ground as most of sOs' units were lifted into the sky and he promptly conceded the series, sending Stats to the grand finals.
Serral and Rogue met in the second semifinal, and Rogue immediately threw the Finn a curveball with a third hatchery—in his natural. Serral calmly responded with a quick third hatchery of his own but putting his near minerals and gas geysers which, in case you didn't know, is where hatcheries usually go. Rogue used his larvae for a flood of zerglings, but Serral never took any damage and Rogue was forced to pull back. A standard game developed from there, with both players droning and beginning to build up their roach count, with Serral at an upgrade advantage due to his faster attack upgrades. He began his trademark roach harassment, even adding a roach drop into the mix. Rogue moved out for an attack that looked scary for Serral for a moment, but +2 attack finished just in time and allowed the Finn to turn the fight in his favor. Serral's harassment, meanwhile, completely tore Rogue apart, killing over 20 drones while Serral swung back at Rogue with a maxed out army. Rogue couldn't stop the attack and GG'd.
Serral uncharacteristically threw in a cheese on Para Site, with a very fast hatchery to trick Rogue, followed by an early gas for zergling speed. Rogue lost his third hatchery, but was able to block and defend his main ramp, allowing him to hold on. Serral continued with more zerglings, putting him all-in. Rogue had banelings in time to defend and when his carapace upgrade finished, moved across for his own attack. Serral was too far behind to defend and was forced to tap out.
Cerulean Fall saw the same standard builds from both players, but Rogue then pooled a lot of zerglings before taking his third base. Serral had to cancel his building third hatchery to afford a wall, but he held and found himself ahead in drones. A long ling/bane slugfest ensued, with Serral ultimately hanging on to his third base and cleaning up Rogue's army. Ahead an attack upgrade and in workers, Serral forced Rogue to all-in with a small roach army. But after scouting Serral's defenses Rogue didn't even bother, instead conceding the game before his attack even began.
Lost and Found again saw mirrored builds but neither player got aggressive this time. Serral chose the faster lair while Rogue opted for earlier range attack upgrades. The two settled into a passive game from there as both players massed roaches and ravagers. Rogue was quicker to add lurkers to his composition, but Serral still found good trades when he attacked the Korean and took out his fifth base. Rogue responded with a nydus worm in Serral's main base. He set up a strong position, but Serral was able to chase him out. Both players transitioned to a lategame army of lurkers, hydralisks and vipers. Bloody trades happened all over the map, but the two armies only chipped away at each other with abducts. Despite Rogue's 20 drone lead it was Serral whose bank grew faster. The Finn got the better of the bloodbath that followed, constantly trading better with his larger army. Rogue eventually ran out of steam and, with his gas bank depleted, was even forced into zerglings. Serral warded off one attack after another on his outlying bases while destroying Rogue's crucial bottom right base. When Serral finally pushed in for the finishing blow he was nearly 60 supply ahead and as his army surrounded the remainder of Rogue's force, the series was his.
After a full year of StarCraft II, Stats and Serral met in the grand finals of the WCS Global Finals. The Protoss forced Serral to take his third base first, then proxied a stargate. His oracle found 6 drone kills, but Serral responded by running zerglings into the Protoss base while pressuring the wall. Stats cleaned up the units and followed up his opening with an archon drop and zealot warpin. The attack was met with roaches and deflected easily. Serral from there teched to swarm hosts and took full control of the game as he pressed into Stats' third base, constantly eliminating important units with his roaches and locusts. Stats held on for a long time thanks to great warp prism micro, but the numbers ultimately made it impossible for him to win and Serral's continued attacks forced him out.
Both players chose standard builds on Cerulean Fall, with Stats opting for a stargate. The Protoss followed this up with adept harassment and two robotics facilities before his third base. He eventually moved out with sentries, immortals and charge zealots, forcing Serral to stop droning and commit to units. The Finn used these units to drop in the main base and poke at the third, but Stats’ defense was tight enough to ward him off. When Stats moved out, though, Serral returned with a larger drop and overwhelmed the Protoss defenses. Stats was committed to his attack and while he did destroy Serral’s fourth base, he lost his whole army to Serral’s hydralisks. With his main base in shambles and still under siege, Stats tapped out.
Stats chose another stargate opening on Dreamcatcher, this time adding a second stargate as his midgame tech, adding two robotics facilities afterwards. Serral’s army of hydralisks and banelings eventually pushed out to pressure Stats while Serral added swarm hosts to his composition. The Zerg army proved too efficient for Stats to handle as he kept bleeding off workers and army units until Serral eventually couldn’t be stopped anymore. As locusts swarmed Stats’ immortals and templar, Stats found himself 90 supply behind the maxed out Zerg and was forced out of the game, putting Serral on match point.
Stats opted for the same double stargate build on Acid Plant. The phoenixes found only minimal value, but they allowed Stats to pin Serral back. The Zerg again chose swarm hosts as his core army unit. A warpin in Serral’s main killed 8 drones while Stats saved his fourth base from locusts. Stats chased down the swarm hosts and picked off a few with his phoenixes, but lost 17 probes to a baneling drop at home. With a lot of high templar, immortals and archons, Stats moved across the map and took a great fight that quickly spiraled into a win for him as Serral’s army was stormed off the map.
Stats finally mixed up his openings on Fracture, choosing a dark shrine for an early archon drop. He began his harassment by engaging Serral’s defensive roaches with dark templar, killing a few of them before morphing his archons. Serral, after stabilizing, threw down an infestation pit for swarm hosts again. Stats postured for an attack but backed off after seeing the locusts. His aggressive stance kept the pressure off his own expansions, and he used that freedom to keep building up his immortal/archon/templar army. He eventually pushed in again as zealots attacked and destroyed Serral’s fourth base. Serral’s locusts were quickly cleaned up and his roach/ravager army couldn’t stand against Stats’ Protoss forces, allowing the Korean to take his second map victory.
Stats went back to his double stargate opening on Para Site. With 22 drone kills, the phoenix harassment proved quite effective. Serral threw down an infestation pit again, but this time used it to rush out a quick hive and greater spire. Stats postured aggressively before the greater spire finished but couldn’t find a way in. Stats at least bought enough time to get a few tempests out. Both players took some time to round out their army compositions, with Stats adding carriers and a mothership while Serral grabbed vipers and more corruptors. Serral’s air army intercepted the mothership as it moved out, allowing Serral to siege Stats’ bases. Stats lost two expansions and suddenly found himself in a rough economic situation against a massive bank on Serral’s side, and his spot only grew worse as Serral’s corruptors shot down nearly his entire air army. Serral then shifted his focus to Stats’ remaining bases in the bottom left, taking out the nexus there and killing 21 probes with banelings. Stats in return took out Serral’s top right base, but that move ultimately had very little impact on Serral’s bank. The brood lords took out another base and Stats’ hand was finally forced. He moved out but constantly had his carriers chipped away at by Serral’s abducts, and the Finnish Zerg finally collapsed on the remaining air army with his corruptors, wiping out Stats’ entire army and with it his last hope of winning the series. With no economy to rebuild and faced with a fully functional Zerg economy and army, Stats conceded the series, crowing Serral the BlizzCon champion.
Congratulations to Serral, the 2018 WCS World Champion!
Congrats to Serral! This is a huge achievement and will impact the whole scene. So happy for our Finnish friend. ^_^
On November 05 2018 04:22 Olli wrote: Going to add a clip of Serral vs Stats at some point but Twitch clips are currently dead. Hope you guys enjoyed the recaps!
On November 05 2018 04:35 Azhrak wrote: Congrats to Serral! This is a huge achievement and will impact the whole scene. So happy for our Finnish friend. ^_^
On November 05 2018 04:22 Olli wrote: Going to add a clip of Serral vs Stats at some point but Twitch clips are currently dead. Hope you guys enjoyed the recaps!
So happy for Serral; what an extraordinary and amazing player. His play was breathtaking, and he meticulously dismantled the competition throughout the tournament.
Also got to say I absolutely love that picture by Helena.
Serral proved to me that it was worth it to come back to starcraft. Amazing run, amazing tournament. Im sure we ll see him face Maru sonner or later, for this title, i m completely satisfied with how it went.
He went almost undefeated since March, lost one series against Neeb online just before blizzcon.
Great matches. Serral is the best non-korean ever play the game. Feel sorry for Stats, he put a hell of a fight and deserve to win some big trophy too...
On November 05 2018 05:05 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: It was so great to see Twitter exploding, Serral win gets to Reddit frontpage, biggest news pages in Finland reporting about Serrals win....
Any links to those news? It'd be interesting to see even tho I don't speak Finnish.
The true magnitude of Serral's achievement will be fully understood years from now. I think it's pretty safe to say he booked his place in the esports Hall of Fame with his run in 2018. I downloaded the whole 18GB vod of the final day and backed it up on two different hdd's, so that I will forever have it.
Serral's 2018 is arguably the best year a sc2 player ever had: he won six premier titles out of six finals he made to, out of nine tournaments; he is undefeated offline in the current patch with a 5/5 streak, beating top koreans in two of these tournaments(one being BlizzCon, the most important tournament of the year). He earned 467k already, beating TY's 2017 earnings(374 k) which were previously the highest in a single year.
As for Maru having a better year than Serral's, surely he realized the unprecedent threepeat of GSL and definitely looked the undisputed strongest player in the world till April; however, despite GSL3 win, he didn't keep up with the amazing start his season had by losing to s0s twice. This puts him at 367k and 4/9 overall in premier tournaments(4/4 when he reached finals); Mvp's 2011 and Life's 2012 runs were kind of the same level.
Yes, Serral obtained most of his wins when koreans weren't partecipating(2/4 if we exclude Pyeonchang when there was only s0s) and he has no GSL titles, but it's just due to him not being in Korea. He is the best in the world at the moment, despite what Aligulac says(well, he lost more than 20 points by winning WCS Valencia…); he may or may not have the desire to prove himself even more in Korea, but he has already shown how strong can he look against top korean players.
On November 05 2018 05:02 Dave4 wrote: 6 Premier victories in one calendar year. And he can still make it 7.
Absolutely Savage.
Poll: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
Best Player of 2018 (485)
63%
Best foreigner of 2018 (128)
17%
GOAT (106)
14%
Best Zerg of 2018 (26)
3%
Noob foreigner (23)
3%
768 total votes
Your vote: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
(Vote): Best foreigner of 2018 (Vote): Best Zerg of 2018 (Vote): Best Player of 2018 (Vote): GOAT (Vote): Noob foreigner
best foreigner of 2018 isn't even a question, should be best foreigner of all time!
Yeah I think thats not an understatement. Lilbow and Neeb have both won multiple WCS in a year but not the full circuit. No one has ever won a BlizzCon before. And Serrals run was much harder and more perfect than old school runs like Naniwa and Stephanie.
Serral's year is basically incomparable to any individual year from any foreigner or korean. I think he is on a streak of 5 premier tournaments consecutively against the best competition in the world. Ludicrous.
Last year Rogue won blizzcon, as well as 2 non region locked tournaments. Which is more than Serral this year. Yet most people still agreed INno was POTY despite him losing in the blizzcon ro8. No chance that happens here. Hell Rogue got called a patchzerg while he won four weekenders in a row. Meanwhile Serral wins five know a row (three being region locked.....) and its suddenly different.
Imagine if it were the other way around with Serral claiming all three GSLs. People would have locked him in for GOAT about 1000x over. His dominance over the korean scene would be undisputable.
On November 05 2018 05:05 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: It was so great to see Twitter exploding, Serral win gets to Reddit frontpage, biggest news pages in Finland reporting about Serrals win....
Any links to those news? It'd be interesting to see even tho I don't speak Finnish.
"Historiallinen voitto: Joona Sotala on maailmanmestari!" Historic victory: Joona Sotala is the World champion!
https://www.is.fi/digitoday/esports/art-2000005888071.html "Tuore MM-voittaja Joona Sotala IS:lle: Ensin tunsin jääväni jälkeen peleissä – sitten tapahtui jotakin" Fresh WC Joona Sotala for IS: At the first I felt getting behind in games - then something happened
"Markku kannusti 11 vuotta sitten poikaansa pelaamaan videopelejä – nostaa nyt lipun salkoon maailmanmestaruuden kunniaksi" Markku (Sotala) encouraged 11 years ago his son to play video games - now rises flag to pole to honor (Serral)
"Serral teki e-urheiluhistoriaa! Suomalaisesta tuli ensimmäinen ei-korealainen StarCraftin maailmanmestari" Serral made e-sport history! Finn became the first non-Korean StarCraft Word champion
Congrats to Serral. Proof hard work pays off no dream too big! Capped off a legendary run by some how killing mass carriers rofl what a monster. Would have loved to see his zvt showcase but hopefully he takes on Korea next year! I was a doubter till blizzcon but he left no doubt. An absolute beast.
my god... Serral is so damn efficient, patient, and deft with his hands... never seems to get tilted or nervous... I'd like to see him dominate again next year :D
On November 05 2018 06:41 SoleSteeler wrote: my god... Serral is so damn efficient, patient, and deft with his hands... never seems to get tilted or nervous... I'd like to see him dominate again next year :D
he looking nervous right after losing maps, and zerg is getting nerfed so no more such domination.
I guess after SC2 died in Korea foreigner finally won something meaningful.
p.s. Also, I am not a big fan of Stephano, but how can you can Serral the best foreigner in sc2 history, when stephano actually was fighting best koreans toe to toe when they were actually practising and game wasn't dead in KR?
On November 05 2018 06:47 LuckyGnomTV wrote: I guess after SC2 died in Korea foreigner finally won something meaningful.
p.s. Also, I am not a big fan of Stephano, but how can you can Serral the best foreigner in sc2 history, when stephano actually was fighting best koreans toe to toe when they were actually practising and game wasn't dead in KR?
No way in hell the players of WCS Global Finals were not practicing when there is 700 000 on the line. The scene might be smaller in Korea these days but there are still a bunch of professional players left.
On November 05 2018 05:05 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: It was so great to see Twitter exploding, Serral win gets to Reddit frontpage, biggest news pages in Finland reporting about Serrals win....
Any links to those news? It'd be interesting to see even tho I don't speak Finnish.
"Historiallinen voitto: Joona Sotala on maailmanmestari!" Historic victory: Joona Sotala is the World champion!
https://www.is.fi/digitoday/esports/art-2000005888071.html "Tuore MM-voittaja Joona Sotala IS:lle: Ensin tunsin jääväni jälkeen peleissä – sitten tapahtui jotakin" Fresh WC Joona Sotala for IS: At the first I felt getting behind in games - then something happened
"Markku kannusti 11 vuotta sitten poikaansa pelaamaan videopelejä – nostaa nyt lipun salkoon maailmanmestaruuden kunniaksi" Markku (Sotala) encouraged 11 years ago his son to play video games - now rises flag to pole to honor (Serral)
"Serral teki e-urheiluhistoriaa! Suomalaisesta tuli ensimmäinen ei-korealainen StarCraftin maailmanmestari" Serral made e-sport history! Finn became the first non-Korean StarCraft Word champion
On November 05 2018 06:47 LuckyGnomTV wrote: I guess after SC2 died in Korea foreigner finally won something meaningful.
p.s. Also, I am not a big fan of Stephano, but how can you can Serral the best foreigner in sc2 history, when stephano actually was fighting best koreans toe to toe when they were actually practising and game wasn't dead in KR?
No way in hell the players of WCS Global Finals were not practicing when there is 700 000 on the line. The scene might be smaller in Korea these days but there are still a bunch of professional players left.
I think the idea is that they aren't practicing as hard in general. Obviously none of the guys at blizzcon were dozing of right before the event.
On November 05 2018 06:47 LuckyGnomTV wrote: I guess after SC2 died in Korea foreigner finally won something meaningful.
p.s. Also, I am not a big fan of Stephano, but how can you can Serral the best foreigner in sc2 history, when stephano actually was fighting best koreans toe to toe when they were actually practising and game wasn't dead in KR?
Stephano was very good, but I think it is kind of laughable that he was better than Serral is now. I just can't imagine this comment coming from someone that watch during both eras. Stephano was very quick to figure out how to use specific mechanics very well (swarmhosts, infested terrans to bait tank shots, defending all ins with nothing but queens and lings), and had fantastic mechanics, but Serral is a much more complete player. Serral can play any style extremely well and his decision making and multitasking is was sets him apart. Stephano was always very greedy with his play.
Those pics are epic, Serral made a history It was a small weekend for all esports fans (even those friends who far away from sc2 was watching and cheering). Please, Jona, don't stop!
Ah those tears...Your picture will remain in the Hall of Fame forever. It was a great Blizzcon, with lots of good StarCraft
I wonder what Korean scene is saying about results?
The funny thing about the finals was Serral had a pretty bad early game in the first 3 games, yet still won anyway. Game 4 was by far his best early game, he read everything perfectly and had way more drones than he did previously, and somehow he lost that game. And ofc, Game 5 was a bit of a disaster, he fell really behind (people really need to start doing DT drop again, every recent pro game that features it has the Protoss in a really good position).
I don't think these were anyway near Serral's best games, he made quite a lot of mistakes. It's unbelievable how relatively simple the series was anyway.
On November 05 2018 06:42 argonautdice wrote: Arguably Best player of 2018 and Best foreigner of all time!
Best foreigner easily. In fact, I think you could argue putting Neeb above Stephano at this point. Even though I love Stephano and valued the gameplay of pre-LotV a lot more, there's no denying the level of domination those two have had in LotV.
Serral Neeb Stephano Scarlett Naniwa
would be my rough top 5. GOAT foreigners are a lot harder to rank. Maybe Nerchio over Naniwa given that Nerchio has had crazy longevity just like Scarlett.
On November 05 2018 06:47 LuckyGnomTV wrote: I guess after SC2 died in Korea foreigner finally won something meaningful.
p.s. Also, I am not a big fan of Stephano, but how can you can Serral the best foreigner in sc2 history, when stephano actually was fighting best koreans toe to toe when they were actually practising and game wasn't dead in KR?
Stephano was very good, but I think it is kind of laughable that he was better than Serral is now. I just can't imagine this comment coming from someone that watch during both eras. Stephano was very quick to figure out how to use specific mechanics very well (swarmhosts, infested terrans to bait tank shots, defending all ins with nothing but queens and lings), and had fantastic mechanics, but Serral is a much more complete player. Serral can play any style extremely well and his decision making and multitasking is was sets him apart. Stephano was always very greedy with his play.
Serral is a superior player for sure, however Stephano with his use of the infestors or the 200pop roach and other stuffs was really an innovator in regard of the meta (which is why I would still rank him above neeb), and his flanks were very inspiring. All in all that's different area but I still saw him as one of the greatest explorer of zerg race.
edit : tbf, I am really a hardcore stephano fan even if he gets me a bit desesperate with his zvz so I am really biaised here.
On November 05 2018 07:53 Dav1oN wrote: Those pics are epic, Serral made a history It was a small weekend for all esports fans (even those friends who far away from sc2 was watching and cheering). Please, Jona, don't stop!
Ah those tears...Your picture will remain in the Hall of Fame forever. It was a great Blizzcon, with lots of good StarCraft
I wonder what Korean scene is saying about results?
Actually a lot of Korean fans and pros predicted Serral's victory before blizzcon =D
On November 05 2018 04:41 Incognoto wrote: Did Serral just basically win everything he entered this year lol? so impressive
He didn't win everything but he got more firsts than not-firsts.
No loss in Premier since April then? Did anyone achieve such a period of invincibility before?
Yeah, Life won five tournaments in a span of five months. Plus had multiple top four finishes and finals over the course of 15 months including that. It's really close, but Serral's dominance just barely edges it Edit: Life is banned so no.
On November 05 2018 05:05 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: It was so great to see Twitter exploding, Serral win gets to Reddit frontpage, biggest news pages in Finland reporting about Serrals win....
Any links to those news? It'd be interesting to see even tho I don't speak Finnish.
"Historiallinen voitto: Joona Sotala on maailmanmestari!" Historic victory: Joona Sotala is the World champion!
https://www.is.fi/digitoday/esports/art-2000005888071.html "Tuore MM-voittaja Joona Sotala IS:lle: Ensin tunsin jääväni jälkeen peleissä – sitten tapahtui jotakin" Fresh WC Joona Sotala for IS: At the first I felt getting behind in games - then something happened
"Markku kannusti 11 vuotta sitten poikaansa pelaamaan videopelejä – nostaa nyt lipun salkoon maailmanmestaruuden kunniaksi" Markku (Sotala) encouraged 11 years ago his son to play video games - now rises flag to pole to honor (Serral)
"Serral teki e-urheiluhistoriaa! Suomalaisesta tuli ensimmäinen ei-korealainen StarCraftin maailmanmestari" Serral made e-sport history! Finn became the first non-Korean StarCraft Word champion
8 years of watching SC2 - In my opinion Serral is the best player overall in that time period. He won Blizzcon without any problems.. He made sOs/Zest/Dark and Stats (first 3 games) look like a diamond player. He outplayed Rouge - Maru got lucky that he didnt reached the finals
Serral has simply reached the highest skill level I've seen since 2011, both in absolute and relative form. In absolute, I've never seen a cleaner player maintain such a high performance... And relatively... Almost a year that he's completely one level above any other player. A monster simply put. I hope we see the same level next year. And I think the one candidate to take his place is Reynor*. He kid is too good too.
On November 05 2018 05:02 Dave4 wrote: 6 Premier victories in one calendar year. And he can still make it 7.
Absolutely Savage.
Poll: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
Best Player of 2018 (485)
63%
Best foreigner of 2018 (128)
17%
GOAT (106)
14%
Best Zerg of 2018 (26)
3%
Noob foreigner (23)
3%
768 total votes
Your vote: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
(Vote): Best foreigner of 2018 (Vote): Best Zerg of 2018 (Vote): Best Player of 2018 (Vote): GOAT (Vote): Noob foreigner
He is a beast and all those wins are crazy, but three consecutive GSLs is still more impressive for me. Probably Best Foreigner of All Time and Definitely Current Best Zerg (possibly in the running for top 5 all time Zerg) but best player right now? Nah, still Maru.
On November 05 2018 05:02 Dave4 wrote: 6 Premier victories in one calendar year. And he can still make it 7.
Absolutely Savage.
Poll: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
Best Player of 2018 (485)
63%
Best foreigner of 2018 (128)
17%
GOAT (106)
14%
Best Zerg of 2018 (26)
3%
Noob foreigner (23)
3%
768 total votes
Your vote: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
(Vote): Best foreigner of 2018 (Vote): Best Zerg of 2018 (Vote): Best Player of 2018 (Vote): GOAT (Vote): Noob foreigner
He is a beast and all those wins are crazy, but three consecutive GSLs is still more impressive for me. Best Foreigner of All Time and Current Best Zerg (possibly in the running for best all time) but best player? Nah, still Maru.
I sucks to be Maru right now. Any other year in SC2 history winning all 3 GSLs would cement you as best player no questions asked, but now Serral throws some doubt on that.
After one year and a half of not watching any SC2 I decided to watch the WCS Global Finals because I missed it. I enjoyed it last week even though I expected better games. Friday night was a lot better with very good quarterfinals. So I was pumped for the final four. And then my internet fell. I managed to avoid the spoilers but had to wait until this afternoon to watch the VODs. And then my internet feel again. At 3-2 during the final. Asshole. So of course I'm a bit disappointed not having been able to witness such a historic moment live but I'm still extremely glad about getting back on the SC2 train.
The games displayed by Serral, Rogue and Stats (well, not Stats vs sOs, that was a stomp) have left me speechless, the game 4 of Rogue-Serral especially was absolutely insane. ZvZ has improved so much over the years, it reminded by of the famous TaeJa-INnoVation, the masterpiece of TvT (one of at least). And the last game of the final was extraordinary as well, both players played SO WELL, the multitasking required was incredible.
Congratulations to Serral ! The first time I watched him it was during a DreamHack where he lost 2-0 to SuperNoVa while playing already far better than the score made it believe. And he was 15. I knew he had potential but I never imagined he could go beyond what any foreigner has ever done on SC2 (or SC1). He has everything : the talent, the work ethic and an incredible mental strength.
What a win. I'm really looking forward to the HomeStory Cup and more generally to what 2019 will reserve for us. StarCraft II is great !
Congrats to Serral, he is amazing and deserves it. He is the best player right now, and foreigner GOAT without doubt.
I've been watching countless hours of SC2 since 2011 and I have never seen someone that is better at the game than him. Comparable are Zest, Life, Inno and Maru at their peak months in their carrers. But Serral streak is longer, so he might be better than them.
As a cheerleader for team Korea and Stats in particular, I wanted Serral to lose so bad. But Serral's skill is undeniable. And even though he smacked down my favorite players, he couldn't have been more classy in victory.
Oh by the way, was Stats really dead in game 2 ? I thought he tapped out veeery early. Not IdrAesque but still, I thought his position was kinda salvageable.
For me it is less about that Serral won. It is about how he won.
The games versus Rogue and versus Stats were fantastic. There was so much going on. The quick decisions, the overall strategy, everything was superb.
The patience / judgement of Serral is perhaps the greatest skill. Not just the long-term decisions, also the short-term choices where to move his units. Insane.
The minimap in those later ZvZ's with Rogue was just incredible. Both players had impeccable scouting, multiple fronts and unit dots everywhere. It might have been the highest level of Starcraft 2 that I've seen. In WoL and even HotS the best players usually fought around a couple key spots in the map and didnt really evolve past those points.
Serral vs Rogue and vs Stats was a player operating organically to every stage of the game. The battles and harrass were just everywhere. Serral is a God. Even if he tanks out in 2019 and retires, what he has accomplished is godly.
You know what was the most satisfying thing for me? It's not Serral climbing the mountaintop and becoming the World Champion in an esport that has been historically dominated by Koreans. It's not the fact that a foreigner has unquestionably one-upped Koreans after twenty years that the franchise has existed. Yes, those are satisfying in and of themselves, but...
...the most satisfying thing for me was seeing all these Korean elitists on this forum and everywhere else eating crow, eat their criticism, yet still, STILL, they find unfathomable ways to move the goalposts to criticize and downplay Serral's achievement.
It just goes to show how their opinions and arguments are slowly losing credibility. They're just making themselves look stupid now. It's really pitiful.
Now when I see someone do that, I just laugh, knowing that everyone else is laughing at them too.
So were korean fans and pros giving Serral more credit than the average TL user? Was Maru expected to win? What do they say about his anticlimatic loss?
The fact that Serral didn't do anything weird, unexpected or new is the most impressive. He does things that no foreigners have done before and is probably only comparable to Life, who would probably have been the best player right now had he not thrown everything away.
The people who don't want to crown him the best foreigner of all time must have not watched the game. It looks completely different to what we're used to. He wins in a way that just doesn't work for anyone else consistently and that's also why he looks so scary. How do you counter a style like that. No doubt someone will figure it out, but to us mere mortals it looks crazy. No foreigner has looked so dominant, and only a few koreans.
It seems like Serral tries out things in smaller tournaments and brings his A-game to Premiers, judging from the losses he's taken but I haven't seen all of those matches.
Also, as some people have said: the elitism and doubting, even in the face of rapidly mounting evidence, from some posters makes it even better.
I wish i didn't play Terran when I see Serral play....
Not surprised in the least that he won. Wish we could have watched him tested against top Terrans more this year but oh well. He's the best player in the world and I respect the hell out of his skill but I doubt I'll ever be a fan. Now that he's conquered the mountain it'll be interesting to see if he keeps his form or slips a little next year.
On November 05 2018 12:15 kottbullar wrote: Perhaps the scariest thing about Serral is that you can see him improving after every series he's won (and lost).
Yep. Won 3-1 against Dark in GSLvTW? 3-0 this time. 4-3 against Stats? 4-2 this time. Everyone really wanted a Maru/Serral match, but the game is not dead and there is plenty of time in the future for that to happen.
On November 05 2018 13:13 BjoernK wrote: I would be very interested in Korean news/social media about Serral. What are they saying about his run and him as a player?
On November 05 2018 13:13 BjoernK wrote: I would be very interested in Korean news/social media about Serral. What are they saying about his run and him as a player?
On November 05 2018 05:02 Dave4 wrote: 6 Premier victories in one calendar year. And he can still make it 7.
Absolutely Savage.
Poll: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
Best Player of 2018 (485)
63%
Best foreigner of 2018 (128)
17%
GOAT (106)
14%
Best Zerg of 2018 (26)
3%
Noob foreigner (23)
3%
768 total votes
Your vote: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
(Vote): Best foreigner of 2018 (Vote): Best Zerg of 2018 (Vote): Best Player of 2018 (Vote): GOAT (Vote): Noob foreigner
He is a beast and all those wins are crazy, but three consecutive GSLs is still more impressive for me. Best Foreigner of All Time and Current Best Zerg (possibly in the running for best all time) but best player? Nah, still Maru.
I sucks to be Maru right now. Any other year in SC2 history winning all 3 GSLs would cement you as best player no questions asked, but now Serral throws some doubt on that.
Well.. now that I'm looking at Serral's actual tournament wins, his run looks much less impressive. Obviously he gets props for winning the World Championship, but Maru is far, far ahead in my opinion. Maru won tournaments against objectively better opponents, Serral won the big, subjective story-line.
On November 05 2018 05:02 Dave4 wrote: 6 Premier victories in one calendar year. And he can still make it 7.
Absolutely Savage.
Poll: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
Best Player of 2018 (485)
63%
Best foreigner of 2018 (128)
17%
GOAT (106)
14%
Best Zerg of 2018 (26)
3%
Noob foreigner (23)
3%
768 total votes
Your vote: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
(Vote): Best foreigner of 2018 (Vote): Best Zerg of 2018 (Vote): Best Player of 2018 (Vote): GOAT (Vote): Noob foreigner
He is a beast and all those wins are crazy, but three consecutive GSLs is still more impressive for me. Best Foreigner of All Time and Current Best Zerg (possibly in the running for best all time) but best player? Nah, still Maru.
I sucks to be Maru right now. Any other year in SC2 history winning all 3 GSLs would cement you as best player no questions asked, but now Serral throws some doubt on that.
Well.. now that I'm looking at Serral's actual tournament wins, his run looks much less impressive. Obviously he gets props for winning the World Championship, but Maru is far, far ahead in my opinion. Maru won tournaments against objectively better opponents, Serral won the big, subjective story-line.
It's definitely not a Cinderella story because Serral was never the underdog (in a lot of people's mind). But I wouldn't take away from his opponents because all of his games were super exiting to watch. Kinda biased coz I'm a Zerg but still xD
On November 05 2018 13:13 BjoernK wrote: I would be very interested in Korean news/social media about Serral. What are they saying about his run and him as a player?
"His autograph skills are poor" was my favorite :p
You have no idea... Serral signed my poster and it legit looked like I got a third grader to forge it. But it's okay because at least I know he's spending time practicing sc2 instead of writing.
Serral is like a machine, like Innovation god mode in his best moments, no emotions. It makes me feel little strange. I predicted Stats to take it all and I was close, but in the very end Stats was the one who made his first mistakes. Serral was totally perfect in any aspect of the year. He beat Dark earlier and played just like Dark with perfect air/zerg in the end with incredible viper grabs. In the beginning of the Grand finals I thought that Serral is great, but still he had no consistent experience with top korrean players. Now he made huge jump in the history.
Did Serral ever kiss the trophy on stage?? I was watching the ceremony and I don't remember him ever kissing the trophy. If he didn't, why is no one else talking about this, it's a thing in basically every sport.
On November 05 2018 05:02 Dave4 wrote: 6 Premier victories in one calendar year. And he can still make it 7.
Absolutely Savage.
Poll: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
Best Player of 2018 (485)
63%
Best foreigner of 2018 (128)
17%
GOAT (106)
14%
Best Zerg of 2018 (26)
3%
Noob foreigner (23)
3%
768 total votes
Your vote: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
(Vote): Best foreigner of 2018 (Vote): Best Zerg of 2018 (Vote): Best Player of 2018 (Vote): GOAT (Vote): Noob foreigner
He is a beast and all those wins are crazy, but three consecutive GSLs is still more impressive for me. Best Foreigner of All Time and Current Best Zerg (possibly in the running for best all time) but best player? Nah, still Maru.
I sucks to be Maru right now. Any other year in SC2 history winning all 3 GSLs would cement you as best player no questions asked, but now Serral throws some doubt on that.
Well.. now that I'm looking at Serral's actual tournament wins, his run looks much less impressive. Obviously he gets props for winning the World Championship, but Maru is far, far ahead in my opinion. Maru won tournaments against objectively better opponents, Serral won the big, subjective story-line.
As impressive as Maru was I think Serral was more impressive. Serral won two tournaments filled with top tier koreans in addition to four!! Straight WCS events. As good as Maru was this year it is undeniable that Maru failed to win several key matches, notably at GSL vs the World and Blizzcon. I don't think it is fair to call Maru the better player when he failed to defeat Serral on the latest patch. You can argue 3 GSl is impressive but I would say that the caliber of players that Serral defeated at Blizzcon and GSL are about equal and the 4 WCS match at least 1 GSL.
On November 05 2018 05:02 Dave4 wrote: 6 Premier victories in one calendar year. And he can still make it 7.
Absolutely Savage.
Poll: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
Best Player of 2018 (485)
63%
Best foreigner of 2018 (128)
17%
GOAT (106)
14%
Best Zerg of 2018 (26)
3%
Noob foreigner (23)
3%
768 total votes
Your vote: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
(Vote): Best foreigner of 2018 (Vote): Best Zerg of 2018 (Vote): Best Player of 2018 (Vote): GOAT (Vote): Noob foreigner
He is a beast and all those wins are crazy, but three consecutive GSLs is still more impressive for me. Best Foreigner of All Time and Current Best Zerg (possibly in the running for best all time) but best player? Nah, still Maru.
I sucks to be Maru right now. Any other year in SC2 history winning all 3 GSLs would cement you as best player no questions asked, but now Serral throws some doubt on that.
Well.. now that I'm looking at Serral's actual tournament wins, his run looks much less impressive. Obviously he gets props for winning the World Championship, but Maru is far, far ahead in my opinion. Maru won tournaments against objectively better opponents, Serral won the big, subjective story-line.
As impressive as Maru was I think Serral was more impressive. Serral won two tournaments filled with top tier koreans in addition to four!! Straight WCS events. As good as Maru was this year it is undeniable that Maru failed to win several key matches, notably at GSL vs the World and Blizzcon. I don't think it is fair to call Maru the better player when he failed to defeat Serral on the latest patch. You can argue 3 GSl is impressive but I would say that the caliber of players that Serral defeated at Blizzcon and GSL are about equal and the 4 WCS match at least 1 GSL.
That's fair. Until they actually play each other it really is just opinion. Serral had a hell of a year and is a great World Champ. He earned the respect he's getting. I'll be excited to see how everyone does next year.
On November 05 2018 09:01 Boucot wrote: After one year and a half of not watching any SC2 I decided to watch the WCS Global Finals because I missed it. I enjoyed it last week even though I expected better games. Friday night was a lot better with very good quarterfinals. So I was pumped for the final four. And then my internet fell. I managed to avoid the spoilers but had to wait until this afternoon to watch the VODs. And then my internet feel again. At 3-2 during the final. Asshole. So of course I'm a bit disappointed not having been able to witness such a historic moment live but I'm still extremely glad about getting back on the SC2 train.
The games displayed by Serral, Rogue and Stats (well, not Stats vs sOs, that was a stomp) have left me speechless, the game 4 of Rogue-Serral especially was absolutely insane. ZvZ has improved so much over the years, it reminded by of the famous TaeJa-INnoVation, the masterpiece of TvT (one of at least). And the last game of the final was extraordinary as well, both players played SO WELL, the multitasking required was incredible.
Congratulations to Serral ! The first time I watched him it was during a DreamHack where he lost 2-0 to SuperNoVa while playing already far better than the score made it believe. And he was 15. I knew he had potential but I never imagined he could go beyond what any foreigner has ever done on SC2 (or SC1). He has everything : the talent, the work ethic and an incredible mental strength.
What a win. I'm really looking forward to the HomeStory Cup and more generally to what 2019 will reserve for us. StarCraft II is great !
You should watch the sixth game between reynor and serral in the last wcs finals, it was so freaking tense.
I love this game. I love Serral. He's injected a lot of renewed interest for many people as the strongest foreigner (or even player) for 2018. I hope this drives more global interest to the game and that blizzard's region lock goals pan out. A foreigner winning blizzcon was probably a mere hope, but it actually happened!
He is the world champ... thats not an opinion, its a fact. If Serral would have lost to Stats then you could have some sort of reson to argue the way you are.
When he manages to do with the Koreans like Serral has done over 2 tournaments now, from playing only outside of South Korea, just makes it even more impressive. His skill level just looks to be better right now.
To the people saying "zerg will get nerfed... he just won on this patch..blabla". Its not like he is abusing a single unit to death. If they nerf zerg the way some ppl "hope" they will... you wont see any zergs qualify period.
This became instantly favourite SC2 esports moment, just watching a man step into the cape that we've been fitting for him for a year now with such ease and comfort. So often have the great favourites fallen (korean or not) and foreign hopes faded away, but this was something else. It to some extent looked like Serral wasn't even brought to the edge yet, that he could be even better if someone could push him further.
Awesome tournament and run by Serral! He played so damn well. He didn't win by early pools or build orders, he just played really well and reacted to what was thrown at him-
Marwho?
Nah, Maru lost to a very tricky opponent, but it seems to me Maru wins more often from build orders and surprises than Serral. Too bad we didn't get the Maru vs Serral final, but the match vs Stats was pretty good.
On November 05 2018 11:41 Xain0n wrote: So were korean fans and pros giving Serral more credit than the average TL user? Was Maru expected to win? What do they say about his anticlimatic loss?
On November 05 2018 04:41 Incognoto wrote: Did Serral just basically win everything he entered this year lol? so impressive
He didn't win everything but he got more firsts than not-firsts.
No loss in Premier since April then? Did anyone achieve such a period of invincibility before?
Yeah, Life won five tournaments in a span of five months. Plus had multiple top four finishes and finals over the course of 15 months including that. It's really close, but Serral's dominance just barely edges it Edit: Life is banned so no.
But but Life can give games away and still win a series, that’s bonjwa.
Serrals level of play rocked my socks off, best player in the world and best player of 2018. Its hard to argue anything else even though I'm the biggest Maru fan. We will see, maybe this was where Maru stumbled on the precipe of goat, watched Serral snatch world champion and pershaps go on to dominate 2019 and claim goat himself.
It will be hard to rate Serrals level next year compared to the koreans since he so rarely plays them but he proven his class and potential beyond any doubt.
Well deserved for serral, without a question best zerg and foreigner of the year. I really hope he will go to the gsl to raise the competition even higher. edit: best foreigner of history
On November 05 2018 05:02 Dave4 wrote: 6 Premier victories in one calendar year. And he can still make it 7.
Absolutely Savage.
Poll: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
Best Player of 2018 (485)
63%
Best foreigner of 2018 (128)
17%
GOAT (106)
14%
Best Zerg of 2018 (26)
3%
Noob foreigner (23)
3%
768 total votes
Your vote: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
(Vote): Best foreigner of 2018 (Vote): Best Zerg of 2018 (Vote): Best Player of 2018 (Vote): GOAT (Vote): Noob foreigner
He is a beast and all those wins are crazy, but three consecutive GSLs is still more impressive for me. Best Foreigner of All Time and Current Best Zerg (possibly in the running for best all time) but best player? Nah, still Maru.
I sucks to be Maru right now. Any other year in SC2 history winning all 3 GSLs would cement you as best player no questions asked, but now Serral throws some doubt on that.
Well.. now that I'm looking at Serral's actual tournament wins, his run looks much less impressive. Obviously he gets props for winning the World Championship, but Maru is far, far ahead in my opinion. Maru won tournaments against objectively better opponents, Serral won the big, subjective story-line.
Nah, winning 3 GSLs is nothing. If Serral had competed in GSL Maru would have won 0 GSLs. WCS is harder than GSL anyway (Serral dropped more maps vs Scarlett, Lambo and Reynor than vs top koreans at blizzcon) So Serral won 4 tournaments harder than the GSL and on top of that GSLvsTW and Blizzcon. No series dropped in 9 months. Definitely GOAT and bonjwa now. But keep denying it korean elitists. So funny to see the haters doing mental gymnastics to discredit his win.
It's good that Maru got eliminated early. Serral would have demolished him in 15 minutes. He's just on another level than any player ever was.
On November 05 2018 05:02 Dave4 wrote: 6 Premier victories in one calendar year. And he can still make it 7.
Absolutely Savage.
Poll: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
Best Player of 2018 (485)
63%
Best foreigner of 2018 (128)
17%
GOAT (106)
14%
Best Zerg of 2018 (26)
3%
Noob foreigner (23)
3%
768 total votes
Your vote: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
(Vote): Best foreigner of 2018 (Vote): Best Zerg of 2018 (Vote): Best Player of 2018 (Vote): GOAT (Vote): Noob foreigner
He is a beast and all those wins are crazy, but three consecutive GSLs is still more impressive for me. Best Foreigner of All Time and Current Best Zerg (possibly in the running for best all time) but best player? Nah, still Maru.
I sucks to be Maru right now. Any other year in SC2 history winning all 3 GSLs would cement you as best player no questions asked, but now Serral throws some doubt on that.
Well.. now that I'm looking at Serral's actual tournament wins, his run looks much less impressive. Obviously he gets props for winning the World Championship, but Maru is far, far ahead in my opinion. Maru won tournaments against objectively better opponents, Serral won the big, subjective story-line.
Nah, winning 3 GSLs is nothing. If Serral had competed in GSL Maru would have won 0 GSLs. WCS is harder than GSL anyway (Serral dropped more maps vs Scarlett, Lambo and Reynor than vs top koreans at blizzcon) So Serral won 4 tournaments harder than the GSL and on top of that GSLvsTW and Blizzcon. No series dropped in 9 months. Definitely GOAT and bonjwa now. But keep denying it korean elitists. So funny to see the haters doing mental gymnastics to discredit his win.
Don't forget that he won his match vs maru in the team competition at gsl vs the world as well, that might have been the most impressive teamleague performance ever, definitely a contestant for the teamleague goat title and therefore overall goat is a given.
On November 05 2018 05:02 Dave4 wrote: 6 Premier victories in one calendar year. And he can still make it 7.
Absolutely Savage.
Poll: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
Best Player of 2018 (485)
63%
Best foreigner of 2018 (128)
17%
GOAT (106)
14%
Best Zerg of 2018 (26)
3%
Noob foreigner (23)
3%
768 total votes
Your vote: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
(Vote): Best foreigner of 2018 (Vote): Best Zerg of 2018 (Vote): Best Player of 2018 (Vote): GOAT (Vote): Noob foreigner
He is a beast and all those wins are crazy, but three consecutive GSLs is still more impressive for me. Best Foreigner of All Time and Current Best Zerg (possibly in the running for best all time) but best player? Nah, still Maru.
I sucks to be Maru right now. Any other year in SC2 history winning all 3 GSLs would cement you as best player no questions asked, but now Serral throws some doubt on that.
Well.. now that I'm looking at Serral's actual tournament wins, his run looks much less impressive. Obviously he gets props for winning the World Championship, but Maru is far, far ahead in my opinion. Maru won tournaments against objectively better opponents, Serral won the big, subjective story-line.
Nah, winning 3 GSLs is nothing. If Serral had competed in GSL Maru would have won 0 GSLs. WCS is harder than GSL anyway (Serral dropped more maps vs Scarlett, Lambo and Reynor than vs top koreans at blizzcon) So Serral won 4 tournaments harder than the GSL and on top of that GSLvsTW and Blizzcon. No series dropped in 9 months. Definitely GOAT and bonjwa now. But keep denying it korean elitists. So funny to see the haters doing mental gymnastics to discredit his win.
Don't forget that he won his match vs maru in the team competition at gsl vs the world as well, that might have been the most impressive teamleague performance ever, definitely a contestant for the teamleague goat title and therefore overall goat is a given.
Oh yeah that too. That's a 100% winrate compared to Maru's 85% winrate in 2016 Proleague so he beats him in that aspect too.
BTW, what do we know about Serral's personality ? He must have some extraordinary personal features , as an extremely high IQ or something of the like. I mean, EVERYONE is working hard , literally everyone . Just watch HeroMarine's or SpeCial's streams, or Korean players. Yet Serral beats everyone like gold leaguers... In boxing we call it a 'declass'...
Serral for me the best player in the world. He is super friendly to other player and fans. His personality reminds of Snute. After life got permanently banned i thinking we never see a so skilled zerg. but i was wrong we got a absolut amazing skilled zerg from EU serral. If he start is sc2 Career i was thinking he can be good. Maybe he get some wins to koreans. But now he absolutly destroy koreans and say that he make mistakes in game that is so funny. I hope he can make this amazing run agian next year. GL serral
On November 06 2018 00:45 Sphairos wrote: Serral is Mozart of StarCraft.
BTW, what do we know about Serral's personality ? He must have some extraordinary personal features , as an extremely high IQ or something of the like. I mean, EVERYONE is working hard , literally everyone . Just watch HeroMarine's or SpeCial's streams, or Korean players. Yet Serral beats everyone like gold leaguers... In boxing we call it a 'declass'...
The word around town is that he's a fairly private and down to earth guy, dosen't party much and never really gets angry at the game. He comes from a competitive familly and his brother was also a very good sc2 players. He dosen't grind as much as other but he make sure he practice the right way.
As for his "IQ" or whatever, well Life was one of the most succesfull player of all time and also a general morron, so we can't say much else than Serral is an amazing SC2 talent, dosen't mean he's some kind of other wordly genious.
(I am not saying he's stupid of course, and he does seem like a pretty nice guy)
On November 06 2018 00:45 Sphairos wrote: Serral is Mozart of StarCraft.
BTW, what do we know about Serral's personality ? He must have some extraordinary personal features , as an extremely high IQ or something of the like. I mean, EVERYONE is working hard , literally everyone . Just watch HeroMarine's or SpeCial's streams, or Korean players. Yet Serral beats everyone like gold leaguers... In boxing we call it a 'declass'...
The word around town is that he's a fairly private and down to earth guy, dosen't party much and never really gets angry at the game. He comes from a competitive familly and his brother was also a very good sc2 players. He dosen't grind as much as other but he make sure he practice the right way.
As for his "IQ" or whatever, well Life was one of the most succesfull player of all time and also a general morron, so we can't say much else than Serral is an amazing SC2 talent, dosen't mean he's some kind of other wordly genious.
(I am not saying he's stupid of course, and he does seem like a pretty nice guy)
I wonder if the 10+ years of getting beaten by his older brother in every single game is what desensitized him to ladder anxiety and on stage stress. "You took 2 maps from me in a row? that s nice, i used to go 0-200 every week when i was 12, it s fine"
On November 05 2018 05:02 Dave4 wrote: 6 Premier victories in one calendar year. And he can still make it 7.
Absolutely Savage.
Poll: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
Best Player of 2018 (485)
63%
Best foreigner of 2018 (128)
17%
GOAT (106)
14%
Best Zerg of 2018 (26)
3%
Noob foreigner (23)
3%
768 total votes
Your vote: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
(Vote): Best foreigner of 2018 (Vote): Best Zerg of 2018 (Vote): Best Player of 2018 (Vote): GOAT (Vote): Noob foreigner
He is a beast and all those wins are crazy, but three consecutive GSLs is still more impressive for me. Best Foreigner of All Time and Current Best Zerg (possibly in the running for best all time) but best player? Nah, still Maru.
I sucks to be Maru right now. Any other year in SC2 history winning all 3 GSLs would cement you as best player no questions asked, but now Serral throws some doubt on that.
Well.. now that I'm looking at Serral's actual tournament wins, his run looks much less impressive. Obviously he gets props for winning the World Championship, but Maru is far, far ahead in my opinion. Maru won tournaments against objectively better opponents, Serral won the big, subjective story-line.
Nah, winning 3 GSLs is nothing. If Serral had competed in GSL Maru would have won 0 GSLs. WCS is harder than GSL anyway (Serral dropped more maps vs Scarlett, Lambo and Reynor than vs top koreans at blizzcon) So Serral won 4 tournaments harder than the GSL and on top of that GSLvsTW and Blizzcon. No series dropped in 9 months. Definitely GOAT and bonjwa now. But keep denying it korean elitists. So funny to see the haters doing mental gymnastics to discredit his win.
It's good that Maru got eliminated early. Serral would have demolished him in 15 minutes. He's just on another level than any player ever was.
So salty, loving it, prepare for some rough days dude <3
GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it.
On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote: GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it.
I think impossible is an exaggeration. Of course no one would expect it, but if Serral played in GSL he would clearly be one of the 2-3 favorites to win it every season, so it’s reasonable if improbable.
On November 05 2018 05:02 Dave4 wrote: 6 Premier victories in one calendar year. And he can still make it 7.
Absolutely Savage.
Poll: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
Best Player of 2018 (485)
63%
Best foreigner of 2018 (128)
17%
GOAT (106)
14%
Best Zerg of 2018 (26)
3%
Noob foreigner (23)
3%
768 total votes
Your vote: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
(Vote): Best foreigner of 2018 (Vote): Best Zerg of 2018 (Vote): Best Player of 2018 (Vote): GOAT (Vote): Noob foreigner
He is a beast and all those wins are crazy, but three consecutive GSLs is still more impressive for me. Best Foreigner of All Time and Current Best Zerg (possibly in the running for best all time) but best player? Nah, still Maru.
I sucks to be Maru right now. Any other year in SC2 history winning all 3 GSLs would cement you as best player no questions asked, but now Serral throws some doubt on that.
Well.. now that I'm looking at Serral's actual tournament wins, his run looks much less impressive. Obviously he gets props for winning the World Championship, but Maru is far, far ahead in my opinion. Maru won tournaments against objectively better opponents, Serral won the big, subjective story-line.
Nah, winning 3 GSLs is nothing. If Serral had competed in GSL Maru would have won 0 GSLs. WCS is harder than GSL anyway (Serral dropped more maps vs Scarlett, Lambo and Reynor than vs top koreans at blizzcon) So Serral won 4 tournaments harder than the GSL and on top of that GSLvsTW and Blizzcon. No series dropped in 9 months. Definitely GOAT and bonjwa now. But keep denying it korean elitists. So funny to see the haters doing mental gymnastics to discredit his win.
It's good that Maru got eliminated early. Serral would have demolished him in 15 minutes. He's just on another level than any player ever was.
Not saying you're wrong about that Serral probably destroying Maru if they would have met but calling Serral GOAT is that just troll bait? I mean bonjwa you can argue for, GOAT you kinda can't. The only reason Maru was in the discussions was because he has shown years of S level results before winning three GSLs in a row. Serral literally has nothing pre 2018, he isn't even top top 5 GOAT, not even close. One year of top results is not enough to get you past players that have done almost the same thing but also more for several more years.
Best in the world for sure, better than Maru based on results for sure but greatest of all time? Lets not get ahead of ourselves here.
On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote: GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it.
Well I consider Serral to be a better player than Maru so yeah, I think it would be possible, but unlikely like it was for Maru. It would be harder for Serral because he'd have to face Maru as well, while Maru didn't face Serral.
On November 06 2018 00:45 Sphairos wrote: Serral is Mozart of StarCraft.
BTW, what do we know about Serral's personality ? He must have some extraordinary personal features , as an extremely high IQ or something of the like. I mean, EVERYONE is working hard , literally everyone . Just watch HeroMarine's or SpeCial's streams, or Korean players. Yet Serral beats everyone like gold leaguers... In boxing we call it a 'declass'...
The word around town is that he's a fairly private and down to earth guy, dosen't party much and never really gets angry at the game. He comes from a competitive familly and his brother was also a very good sc2 players. He dosen't grind as much as other but he make sure he practice the right way.
As for his "IQ" or whatever, well Life was one of the most succesfull player of all time and also a general morron, so we can't say much else than Serral is an amazing SC2 talent, dosen't mean he's some kind of other wordly genious.
(I am not saying he's stupid of course, and he does seem like a pretty nice guy)
But my man ... Life was a cheater -- we don't know which games were fixed and how...
Serral also has been much more consistent than Life : Serral has won almost everything important this year, Life got himself only a GSL and World Cup, and it was like in 5 month.
Actually, I would not have been surprized , if Serral beat Life the same way he beat Rogue and Dark -- like they were diamond or smth.
I ve been Serral's fan for over 5 years, I was startled by his uncanny smooth and clean performances first time I saw him play (even though he lost then). I ve seen him live a couple of times : I remember at Dreamhack Leipzig I observed him and his mates (Welmu and someone else) talk , fool around etc. It was then when I first started to think , that there is something "not normal" about his mind -- meaning , "above normal". He is super friendly and down to earth, like your good ol buddy next door, but when he starts to play , he's doing something different... How come these 2 things get along in him so smoothly? ... To me it's something extraordinary. It's a pure talent. Then, I wonder, how does (or will) that extraordinary talent translate into other areas of human activity -- like, math, programming, business etc.
I wonder if the 10+ years of getting beaten by his older brother in every single game is what desensitized him to ladder anxiety and on stage stress. "You took 2 maps from me in a row? that s nice, i used to go 0-200 every week when i was 12, it s fine"
I kinda doubt that, because we ALL have been in those shoes : when I was 13-14 I played with Russian pros, like Asmodey (WCS winner) and SnT, and got beat hardcore, more than 0-200 for sure. And that lasted for years =) Everyone who's ever tried to play professionally/semi-professionally has been through that...
On November 05 2018 05:02 Dave4 wrote: 6 Premier victories in one calendar year. And he can still make it 7.
Absolutely Savage.
Poll: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
Best Player of 2018 (485)
63%
Best foreigner of 2018 (128)
17%
GOAT (106)
14%
Best Zerg of 2018 (26)
3%
Noob foreigner (23)
3%
768 total votes
Your vote: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
(Vote): Best foreigner of 2018 (Vote): Best Zerg of 2018 (Vote): Best Player of 2018 (Vote): GOAT (Vote): Noob foreigner
He is a beast and all those wins are crazy, but three consecutive GSLs is still more impressive for me. Best Foreigner of All Time and Current Best Zerg (possibly in the running for best all time) but best player? Nah, still Maru.
I sucks to be Maru right now. Any other year in SC2 history winning all 3 GSLs would cement you as best player no questions asked, but now Serral throws some doubt on that.
Well.. now that I'm looking at Serral's actual tournament wins, his run looks much less impressive. Obviously he gets props for winning the World Championship, but Maru is far, far ahead in my opinion. Maru won tournaments against objectively better opponents, Serral won the big, subjective story-line.
Nah, winning 3 GSLs is nothing. If Serral had competed in GSL Maru would have won 0 GSLs. WCS is harder than GSL anyway (Serral dropped more maps vs Scarlett, Lambo and Reynor than vs top koreans at blizzcon) So Serral won 4 tournaments harder than the GSL and on top of that GSLvsTW and Blizzcon. No series dropped in 9 months. Definitely GOAT and bonjwa now. But keep denying it korean elitists. So funny to see the haters doing mental gymnastics to discredit his win.
It's good that Maru got eliminated early. Serral would have demolished him in 15 minutes. He's just on another level than any player ever was.
Lol cant tell if this is a troll post. Serral is amazing. Having said that..the rest of the foreign scene is waaaay behind him. U saw that at blizzcon as well with special being the only other player to stand out. Code S is without a doubt harder than WCS. That doesnt say anything about Serral though since we havent seen him in a code S. To say hes better than Maru is a stretch tho imo since the only series they played (non best of 1) featured Maru steamrolling him. I really hope to see him in Korea this year though i am confident he could win a code S. Personally dont see a 3 x code s champion happening ever again. Lets not forget what the biggest hurdle historically for foreigners has been though....korean terrans. Serral managed to face 0 at blizzcon which will literally never happen in a code S..you have a gtd 4 horsemen code S and hopefully the god himself taeja next year! Dont forget byun if he decides to play again.
On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote: GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it.
this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals.
"could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did.
and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND.
On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote: GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it.
this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals.
"could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did.
and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND.
It's honestly getting absurd at this point.
If you are gonna full on rage u shouldnt cherry pick facts. Maru 3 0d him in the only series they played this year. Blizzcon was super impressive but he didnt meet even 1 kr terran. Code S is more difficult 100%. Doesnt mean i dont think he can do it but its a fact. You say he won everything but winning wcs is a joke at this point so really he won blizzcon and super tournament and lost wesg and katowice. Still best foreigner ever..but get a grip on reality.
I wonder if the 10+ years of getting beaten by his older brother in every single game is what desensitized him to ladder anxiety and on stage stress. "You took 2 maps from me in a row? that s nice, i used to go 0-200 every week when i was 12, it s fine"
I kinda doubt that, because we ALL have been in those shoes : when I was 13-14 I played with Russian pros, like Asmodey (WCS winner) and SnT, and got beat hardcore, more than 0-200 for sure. And that lasted for years =) Everyone who's ever tried to play professionally/semi-professionally has been through that...
BTW, said Asmodey is now a professional poker player, and is doing alright =) BTW, I've met another SC BW superstar - ElkY , at a professional poker tournament, he is now a big poker player too , winning millions of moneys ^_^
On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote: GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it.
this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals.
"could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did.
and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND.
It's honestly getting absurd at this point.
If you are gonna full on rage u shouldnt cherry pick facts. Maru 3 0d him in the only series they played this year. Blizzcon was super impressive but he didnt meet even 1 kr terran. Code S is more difficult 100%. Doesnt mean i dont think he can do it but its a fact. You say he won everything but winning wcs is a joke at this point so really he won blizzcon and super tournament and lost wesg and katowice. Still best foreigner ever..but get a grip on reality.
I was 100% sure when TY went out in the ro8 that this shit gonna surface. bLiZZcoN doNT maTTer cuz he dindt beAT the teRRans!
Yes, Maru beat him 3-0 at the start of the year, like 9 months ago, that s true any nobody is taking that away from him. 12 months ago he was still regularly losing even to EU players. Nobody was saying Serral is the best player last year. Nobody was saying it in february 2018, not many would have said he s even the best foreigner, having won just one WCS, although his play started to look very good.
After he got his revenge on Classic at the 3rd place match at IEM did he start to look like he's in competition for the nr 1 spot, then he kept sweeping WCS and won GSL vs the world. That s where the hype train went out of the station, and he did deliver at Blizzcon, much to our joy.
Champions dont pop out randomly out of the blue sky. You need to get so good that you can tango with the best. Then you need to get that offline experience, that big money, on stage experience when the stakes are the highest. And when you can win even in those conditions comes the next phase when everyone acknowledges you as the real threat, and they specifically prepare to take you down, you have a big ass red X mark on your head.
And if you can win at the highest level with the highest stakes even so, and convincingly so, that s when you're the best.
So great, Maru beat him when he was on his path to ascend. Good for him, go and watch that vod if you get so much out of it.
On November 06 2018 00:45 Sphairos wrote: Serral is Mozart of StarCraft.
BTW, what do we know about Serral's personality ? He must have some extraordinary personal features , as an extremely high IQ or something of the like. I mean, EVERYONE is working hard , literally everyone . Just watch HeroMarine's or SpeCial's streams, or Korean players. Yet Serral beats everyone like gold leaguers... In boxing we call it a 'declass'...
The word around town is that he's a fairly private and down to earth guy, dosen't party much and never really gets angry at the game. He comes from a competitive familly and his brother was also a very good sc2 players. He dosen't grind as much as other but he make sure he practice the right way.
As for his "IQ" or whatever, well Life was one of the most succesfull player of all time and also a general morron, so we can't say much else than Serral is an amazing SC2 talent, dosen't mean he's some kind of other wordly genious.
(I am not saying he's stupid of course, and he does seem like a pretty nice guy)
But my man ... Life was a cheater -- we don't know which games were fixed and how...
Serral also has been much more consistent than Life : Serral has won almost everything important this year, Life got himself only a GSL and World Cup, and it was like in 5 month.
Actually, I would not have been surprized , if Serral beat Life the same way he beat Rogue and Dark -- like they were diamond or smth.
I ve been Serral's fan for over 5 years, I was startled by his uncanny smooth and clean performances first time I saw him play (even though he lost then). I ve seen him live a couple of times : I remember at Dreamhack Leipzig I observed him and his mates (Welmu and someone else) talk , fool around etc. It was then when I first started to think , that there is something "not normal" about his mind -- meaning , "above normal". He is super friendly and down to earth, like your good ol buddy next door, but when he starts to play , he's doing something different... How come these 2 things get along in him so smoothly? ... To me it's something extraordinary. It's a pure talent. Then, I wonder, how does (or will) that extraordinary talent translate into other areas of human activity -- like, math, programming, business etc.
Well first saying that Serral beat Rogue or Dark like they were diamond is ridiculous, sure he his better then them, but it was still two very hard fought series. But my point was that Life was one of SC2 great winning tournament consistly for all of his career (also he only ever lost game out of match fixing, not won them), now maybe it's less impressive then what Serral did but it's not the point. The point is that Life managed to make every bad decision, burn hundreds of thousand of US dollars and got caught cheating fairly easily. He wasn't some kind of mastermind,in fact he acted like an idiot outside of game, but he was still one heck of a Starcraft player. Being good at Starcraft, or any other sports like activity, doesn't mean you are a "genius" if such a thing exist, it just mean you are very very good at this one thing which you worked very hard at. Now of course there's skills and work ethics you acquire doing that, that can be very useful in other activities.
On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote: GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it.
this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals.
"could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did.
and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND.
It's honestly getting absurd at this point.
If you are gonna full on rage u shouldnt cherry pick facts. Maru 3 0d him in the only series they played this year. Blizzcon was super impressive but he didnt meet even 1 kr terran. Code S is more difficult 100%. Doesnt mean i dont think he can do it but its a fact. You say he won everything but winning wcs is a joke at this point so really he won blizzcon and super tournament and lost wesg and katowice. Still best foreigner ever..but get a grip on reality.
im not "raging" and im not "cherry picking facts". yes, maru 3-0'd him at the start of the year but that was nearly a full year ago, and clearly a lot has happened with serral in that time
the rest of your post gets so ridiculous there is no point in continuing my reply
Fantastic end of the year, well done to SerralGod. Honourable commiserations and love to Stats and Rogue, not so much Dark but I think he was genuinely flabbergasted.
On November 06 2018 04:07 DSK wrote: Fantastic end of the year, well done to SerralGod. Honourable commiserations and love to Stats and Rogue, not so much Dark but I think he was genuinely flabbergasted.
Stats put up a very good fight, but Rogue and Dark weren't even close, Serral systematically destroyed them.
Well first saying that Serral beat Rogue or Dark like they were diamond is ridiculous, sure he his better then them, but it was still two very hard fought series. But my point was that Life was one of SC2 great winning tournament consistly for all of his career (also he only ever lost game out of match fixing, not won them), now maybe it's less impressive then what Serral did but it's not the point. The point is that Life managed to make every bad decision, burn hundreds of thousand of US dollars and got caught cheating fairly easily. He wasn't some kind of mastermind,in fact he acted like an idiot outside of game, but he was still one heck of a Starcraft player. Being good at Starcraft, or any other sports like activity, doesn't mean you are a "genius" if such a thing exist, it just mean you are very very good at this one thing which you worked very hard at. Now of course there's skills and work ethics you acquire doing that, that can be very useful in other activities.
I dunno, he made Zest , Dark, Rogue look like they were diamond. If he beat Stats 4-0 , he woulda made him look declassed too. But all 4 are the best players in the world. You admit that "sure he his better then them". Then , "sure , he is better than the world's best"... Sounds odd, doesn't it ?
"was still two very hard fought series. "
was it though??? 2-0 Zest, 3-0 Dark, 3-1 Rogue, is that "hard fought" ??? (2-0 SoS too)
"Being good at Starcraft, or any other sports like activity, doesn't mean you are a "genius" if such a thing exist"
1) Geniuses exist. I am an academic linguist , and I ve met a couple of people, who are geniuses. They speak a bizarre number of very different languages fluently and learn any language in days effortlessly. The estimate is that there is 1, 2, 3 such people in a millon, they are very rare. Such language competence is against all odds, as the dominant linguistic theory (of Noam Chomsky) predicts that it's impossible, because only little children have such ability, after an 8 years mark the "phonetic window" closes and an effortless acquisition of language is impossible. Yet they exist. They are exceptional and extraordinary in their abilities. This is what is called "a genius". Also those people are very smart.
2) Why then chess players are considered very smart ? Because it takes an extremely high IQ to be a chess Grandmaster. Starcraft is an intellectual game , alike chess.
3) You confuse intelligence with socially accepted and approved behaviour, considered "rational". Highly intelligent people do all kinds of messed up stuff. Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber was a young mathematical prodigy, a genius with a PhD at 24 ("Allen Shields, his doctoral advisor, called it "the best I have ever directed",[23] and Maxwell Reade, a member of his dissertation committee, said "I would guess that maybe 10 or 12 men in the country understood or appreciated it."[35][8]"), "the youngest ever mathematics professor at UC Berkeley", and he ended up living in a cabin in the woods and bombing people via post =)
It doesn't mean he was not and is not exceptionally smart.
On November 06 2018 03:11 DomeGetta wrote: Code S is more difficult 100%. ... its a fact.
see im having a problem with how easily you invented this "fact".
This is not even disputed among any of the casters or reputable people in the scene. I havent heard anyone ever try to argue this on TL even the most bias of fans rofl. Site me a professional person who has tried to argue this?
On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote: GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it.
this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals.
"could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did.
and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND.
It's honestly getting absurd at this point.
If you are gonna full on rage u shouldnt cherry pick facts. Maru 3 0d him in the only series they played this year. Blizzcon was super impressive but he didnt meet even 1 kr terran. Code S is more difficult 100%. Doesnt mean i dont think he can do it but its a fact. You say he won everything but winning wcs is a joke at this point so really he won blizzcon and super tournament and lost wesg and katowice. Still best foreigner ever..but get a grip on reality.
I was 100% sure when TY went out in the ro8 that this shit gonna surface. bLiZZcoN doNT maTTer cuz he dindt beAT the teRRans!
Yes, Maru beat him 3-0 at the start of the year, like 9 months ago, that s true any nobody is taking that away from him. 12 months ago he was still regularly losing even to EU players. Nobody was saying Serral is the best player last year. Nobody was saying it in february 2018, not many would have said he s even the best foreigner, having won just one WCS, although his play started to look very good.
After he got his revenge on Classic at the 3rd place match at IEM did he start to look like he's in competition for the nr 1 spot, then he kept sweeping WCS and won GSL vs the world. That s where the hype train went out of the station, and he did deliver at Blizzcon, much to our joy.
Champions dont pop out randomly out of the blue sky. You need to get so good that you can tango with the best. Then you need to get that offline experience, that big money, on stage experience when the stakes are the highest. And when you can win even in those conditions comes the next phase when everyone acknowledges you as the real threat, and they specifically prepare to take you down, you have a big ass red X mark on your head.
And if you can win at the highest level with the highest stakes even so, and convincingly so, that s when you're the best.
So great, Maru beat him when he was on his path to ascend. Good for him, go and watch that vod if you get so much out of it.
Im not using that series to say that Maru is definitely better than Serral. I dont know who is better. There are however loads of people asserting that because Serral won blizzcon hes 100% better than Maru..bc Maru lost one series to his teamate to what was clearly build order counters in a trashed up matchup. Im pointing out that players have strengths and weaknesses. Clearly Marus biggest weakness is facing Protoss specificially one who has master crafted a counter to his style. Everything you saw from Serral this year would have to point to ZvT as his weakness as its the only matchup we saw all year that looked one sided against him. Special is the only foreign Terran who has proven to be code S capable and by far the best foreign Terran Serral had to worry about all year. Entering code S he will gaurenteed get matched up with multiple Terrans all substantially better than Special. My issue is not at all with saying that Serral could be better than Maru its with people using Blizzcon as proof of it. Its not logical.
On November 06 2018 00:45 Sphairos wrote: Serral is Mozart of StarCraft.
BTW, what do we know about Serral's personality ? He must have some extraordinary personal features , as an extremely high IQ or something of the like. I mean, EVERYONE is working hard , literally everyone . Just watch HeroMarine's or SpeCial's streams, or Korean players. Yet Serral beats everyone like gold leaguers... In boxing we call it a 'declass'...
The word around town is that he's a fairly private and down to earth guy, dosen't party much and never really gets angry at the game. He comes from a competitive familly and his brother was also a very good sc2 players. He dosen't grind as much as other but he make sure he practice the right way.
As for his "IQ" or whatever, well Life was one of the most succesfull player of all time and also a general morron, so we can't say much else than Serral is an amazing SC2 talent, dosen't mean he's some kind of other wordly genious.
(I am not saying he's stupid of course, and he does seem like a pretty nice guy)
But my man ... Life was a cheater -- we don't know which games were fixed and how...
Serral also has been much more consistent than Life : Serral has won almost everything important this year, Life got himself only a GSL and World Cup, and it was like in 5 month.
Actually, I would not have been surprized , if Serral beat Life the same way he beat Rogue and Dark -- like they were diamond or smth.
I ve been Serral's fan for over 5 years, I was startled by his uncanny smooth and clean performances first time I saw him play (even though he lost then). I ve seen him live a couple of times : I remember at Dreamhack Leipzig I observed him and his mates (Welmu and someone else) talk , fool around etc. It was then when I first started to think , that there is something "not normal" about his mind -- meaning , "above normal". He is super friendly and down to earth, like your good ol buddy next door, but when he starts to play , he's doing something different... How come these 2 things get along in him so smoothly? ... To me it's something extraordinary. It's a pure talent. Then, I wonder, how does (or will) that extraordinary talent translate into other areas of human activity -- like, math, programming, business etc.
Well first saying that Serral beat Rogue or Dark like they were diamond is ridiculous, sure he his better then them, but it was still two very hard fought series. But my point was that Life was one of SC2 great winning tournament consistly for all of his career (also he only ever lost game out of match fixing, not won them), now maybe it's less impressive then what Serral did but it's not the point. The point is that Life managed to make every bad decision, burn hundreds of thousand of US dollars and got caught cheating fairly easily. He wasn't some kind of mastermind,in fact he acted like an idiot outside of game, but he was still one heck of a Starcraft player. Being good at Starcraft, or any other sports like activity, doesn't mean you are a "genius" if such a thing exist, it just mean you are very very good at this one thing which you worked very hard at. Now of course there's skills and work ethics you acquire doing that, that can be very useful in other activities.
I think that arguing with a guy who thinks that is possible people were bribed to lose against Life in his matchfixing scandal is pointless. Or with someone who thinks that Rogue was smashed like a diamond even though it was 3:1 for Serral and game 4 went deep into the lategame.
I could not watch during the weekend, and I managed to avoid spoilers and any kind of news.. as soon as I was back yesterday evening I binge watched all of the quarter-semis-finals and.... oh well, that was something.
I will re-watch semis and finals tonight, it's honestly a bit overwhelming.. such amazing games, so epic and hyped! This has to be one of my favorite moments in esports! Soooo cool to see not only the amazing display of skill in the matches, but everything around it.
I want to thank all the casters / support team around the SC2 Blizzcon.. it's so awesome to see that you're all big big SC2 nerds like us, who get emotional in front of Serral dominating Blizzcon great job you all!
p.s. The Pylon show live with Day[9] and one of the BW:remastered dev was really nice as well!
On November 05 2018 04:30 Qwyn wrote: This is a moment that will never be forgotten in all of StarCraft history, congratulations Serral! There will never be another player quite like you.
I agree !!!! Amazing 2018 Run ! 100% that is awesome !
I think that arguing with a guy who thinks that is possible people were bribed to lose against Life in his matchfixing scandal is pointless. Or with someone who thinks that Rogue was smashed like a diamond even though it was 3:1 for Serral and game 4 went deep into the lategame.
Oh yeah, Einstein, you sure know Starcraft and everything better than me. Late game doesn't mean a hard game : a diamond or plat could draw you into a late game, but gonna lose anyway. Serral was never in danger in that 4th game. And the only one he gave to Rogue was because of an uncharacteristic rush/all-in.
Obviously the best year of any foreigner by far, and amazing how I'm pretty sure 99% of people would agree he's the best foreigner of all time after just one year.
It's a shame he doesn't have the chance to compete in more global events, because I'm pretty sure he would continue to wreck face in those scenarios. I hope he gets the chance before his form declines, which ultimately happens to all players.
In my eyes Maru still has a way more impressive year. I mean Serral's run is amazing, but I feel like he's basically just a top top korean who won one weekender and than Blizzcon. It would be like Rogue last year, with winning Super Tournament and than Blizzcon. The four WCS victories aren't nothing of course, but people could easily see any top korean doing that.
But three GSL victories in a row is just... mind boggling.
I think that arguing with a guy who thinks that is possible people were bribed to lose against Life in his matchfixing scandal is pointless. Or with someone who thinks that Rogue was smashed like a diamond even though it was 3:1 for Serral and game 4 went deep into the lategame.
Oh yeah, Einstein, you sure know Starcraft and everything better than me. Late game doesn't mean a hard game : a diamond or plat could draw you into a late game, but gonna lose anyway. Serral was never in danger in that 4th game. And the only one he gave to Rogue was because of an uncharacteristic rush/all-in.
Finally we agree, especially on that diamond or plat could draw me into a late game because one diamond just won a game against Serral on Sunday.
I always like to end discussion with mutual agreement.
On November 06 2018 05:22 Pandain wrote: The four WCS victories aren't nothing of course, but people could easily see any top korean doing that.
And that's where you are wrong. Serral had a lot more trouble with his WCS Montreal title than he had at Blizzcon, so I'd at least exclude the Korean Zergs with the "easy" title for top koreans. Protoss players could also fall to Reynor or Showtime for example.
edit: Oh and I forgot Neeb. ^^ If you haven't watch Reynor vs Serral at WCS Montreal, at least game 6 is madness and for me the best game of the year.
On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote: GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it.
this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals.
"could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did.
and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND.
It's honestly getting absurd at this point.
If you are gonna full on rage u shouldnt cherry pick facts. Maru 3 0d him in the only series they played this year. Blizzcon was super impressive but he didnt meet even 1 kr terran. Code S is more difficult 100%. Doesnt mean i dont think he can do it but its a fact. You say he won everything but winning wcs is a joke at this point so really he won blizzcon and super tournament and lost wesg and katowice. Still best foreigner ever..but get a grip on reality.
that was in march. Serral destroyed him at GSL vs the world which proved that he's superior to him. Maru continually gets slapped by koreans like sOs and Stats and people still act like he'd stand a chance against Serral LOL. And people need to get a reality check on the skill level of WCS. maybe GSL is 10% more competitive but it's not much harder to win it than WCS. Neeb placed higher in the GSL in one try than in 4 tries in WCS. Serral is by far the best player in the world right now and him not playing vs players that are too bad to advance far enough to face him is irrelevant.
On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote: GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it.
this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals.
"could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did.
and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND.
It's honestly getting absurd at this point.
If you are gonna full on rage u shouldnt cherry pick facts. Maru 3 0d him in the only series they played this year. Blizzcon was super impressive but he didnt meet even 1 kr terran. Code S is more difficult 100%. Doesnt mean i dont think he can do it but its a fact. You say he won everything but winning wcs is a joke at this point so really he won blizzcon and super tournament and lost wesg and katowice. Still best foreigner ever..but get a grip on reality.
I was 100% sure when TY went out in the ro8 that this shit gonna surface. bLiZZcoN doNT maTTer cuz he dindt beAT the teRRans!
Yes, Maru beat him 3-0 at the start of the year, like 9 months ago, that s true any nobody is taking that away from him. 12 months ago he was still regularly losing even to EU players. Nobody was saying Serral is the best player last year. Nobody was saying it in february 2018, not many would have said he s even the best foreigner, having won just one WCS, although his play started to look very good.
After he got his revenge on Classic at the 3rd place match at IEM did he start to look like he's in competition for the nr 1 spot, then he kept sweeping WCS and won GSL vs the world. That s where the hype train went out of the station, and he did deliver at Blizzcon, much to our joy.
Champions dont pop out randomly out of the blue sky. You need to get so good that you can tango with the best. Then you need to get that offline experience, that big money, on stage experience when the stakes are the highest. And when you can win even in those conditions comes the next phase when everyone acknowledges you as the real threat, and they specifically prepare to take you down, you have a big ass red X mark on your head.
And if you can win at the highest level with the highest stakes even so, and convincingly so, that s when you're the best.
So great, Maru beat him when he was on his path to ascend. Good for him, go and watch that vod if you get so much out of it.
Im not using that series to say that Maru is definitely better than Serral. I dont know who is better. There are however loads of people asserting that because Serral won blizzcon hes 100% better than Maru..bc Maru lost one series to his teamate to what was clearly build order counters in a trashed up matchup. Im pointing out that players have strengths and weaknesses. Clearly Marus biggest weakness is facing Protoss specificially one who has master crafted a counter to his style. Everything you saw from Serral this year would have to point to ZvT as his weakness as its the only matchup we saw all year that looked one sided against him. Special is the only foreign Terran who has proven to be code S capable and by far the best foreign Terran Serral had to worry about all year. Entering code S he will gaurenteed get matched up with multiple Terrans all substantially better than Special. My issue is not at all with saying that Serral could be better than Maru its with people using Blizzcon as proof of it. Its not logical.
Serral 3-0 INnoVation. ZvT isn't a weakness of him he's perfect.
On November 06 2018 05:22 Pandain wrote: The four WCS victories aren't nothing of course, but people could easily see any top korean doing that.
And that's where you are wrong. Serral had a lot more trouble with his WCS Montreal title than he had at Blizzcon, so I'd at least exclude the Korean Zergs with the "easy" title for top koreans.
Let me give you an example.
If Stats was somehow able to enter WCS this year, and take Serral out of the equation, would you have been shocked if he had won 4 in a row? In fact, I think we would expect that to happen like 70-80% of the time.
I want to clarify that it's still remarkable, but we shouldn't be over-exaggerating it either.
I also want to clarify that honestly I think Serral, especially his play the second half of the year, could have consistently won/gone extremely far in any global event he entered, but just that we can't point to his 4 WCS wins as completely amazing. Completely amazing for a foreigner of course, but we would expect Stats or Maru or even Rogue or a number of top koreans to do the same.
On November 06 2018 05:22 Pandain wrote: The four WCS victories aren't nothing of course, but people could easily see any top korean doing that.
And that's where you are wrong. Serral had a lot more trouble with his WCS Montreal title than he had at Blizzcon, so I'd at least exclude the Korean Zergs with the "easy" title for top koreans.
Let me give you an example.
If Stats was somehow able to enter WCS this year, and take Serral out of the equation, would you have been shocked if he had won 4 in a row? In fact, I think we would expect that to happen like 70-80% of the time.
Yes, I would be. I give all of Reynor, Showtime and Neeb a decent chance against him. For Maru I wouldn't be, since EU/NA has too few (extremely) good terrans.
On November 06 2018 05:22 Pandain wrote: The four WCS victories aren't nothing of course, but people could easily see any top korean doing that.
And that's where you are wrong. Serral had a lot more trouble with his WCS Montreal title than he had at Blizzcon, so I'd at least exclude the Korean Zergs with the "easy" title for top koreans.
Let me give you an example.
If Stats was somehow able to enter WCS this year, and take Serral out of the equation, would you have been shocked if he had won 4 in a row? In fact, I think we would expect that to happen like 70-80% of the time.
Yes, I would be. I give all of Reynor, Showtime and Neeb a decent chance against him.
They're all good, but Stats would still be the heavy favorite. Showtime and Neeb are probably the same level, but Stats just smacked down Showtime pretty hard.
Reynor is a god and probably a top 10 player in my book, and his wins against Classic and series against Maru and Serral testify to that, but he would still be the underdog.
On November 06 2018 05:22 Pandain wrote: The four WCS victories aren't nothing of course, but people could easily see any top korean doing that.
And that's where you are wrong. Serral had a lot more trouble with his WCS Montreal title than he had at Blizzcon, so I'd at least exclude the Korean Zergs with the "easy" title for top koreans.
Let me give you an example.
If Stats was somehow able to enter WCS this year, and take Serral out of the equation, would you have been shocked if he had won 4 in a row? In fact, I think we would expect that to happen like 70-80% of the time.
I want to clarify that it's still remarkable, but we shouldn't be over-exaggerating it either.
I also want to clarify that honestly I think Serral, especially his play the second half of the year, could have consistently won/gone extremely far in any global event he entered, but just that we can't point to his 4 WCS wins as completely amazing. Completely amazing for a foreigner of course, but we would expect Stats or Maru or even Rogue or a number of top koreans to do the same.
No way, the skill difference between Serral and Stats is gigantic as he trashed him in 2 separate series (Stats only won with cheese) and even Serral had trouble winning WCS with several close series. A player like Stats who is so much worse than Serral would at most win 1-2 WCS seasons in a year.
On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote: GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it.
this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals.
"could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did.
and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND.
It's honestly getting absurd at this point.
If you are gonna full on rage u shouldnt cherry pick facts. Maru 3 0d him in the only series they played this year. Blizzcon was super impressive but he didnt meet even 1 kr terran. Code S is more difficult 100%. Doesnt mean i dont think he can do it but its a fact. You say he won everything but winning wcs is a joke at this point so really he won blizzcon and super tournament and lost wesg and katowice. Still best foreigner ever..but get a grip on reality.
I was 100% sure when TY went out in the ro8 that this shit gonna surface. bLiZZcoN doNT maTTer cuz he dindt beAT the teRRans!
Yes, Maru beat him 3-0 at the start of the year, like 9 months ago, that s true any nobody is taking that away from him. 12 months ago he was still regularly losing even to EU players. Nobody was saying Serral is the best player last year. Nobody was saying it in february 2018, not many would have said he s even the best foreigner, having won just one WCS, although his play started to look very good.
After he got his revenge on Classic at the 3rd place match at IEM did he start to look like he's in competition for the nr 1 spot, then he kept sweeping WCS and won GSL vs the world. That s where the hype train went out of the station, and he did deliver at Blizzcon, much to our joy.
Champions dont pop out randomly out of the blue sky. You need to get so good that you can tango with the best. Then you need to get that offline experience, that big money, on stage experience when the stakes are the highest. And when you can win even in those conditions comes the next phase when everyone acknowledges you as the real threat, and they specifically prepare to take you down, you have a big ass red X mark on your head.
And if you can win at the highest level with the highest stakes even so, and convincingly so, that s when you're the best.
So great, Maru beat him when he was on his path to ascend. Good for him, go and watch that vod if you get so much out of it.
Im not using that series to say that Maru is definitely better than Serral. I dont know who is better. There are however loads of people asserting that because Serral won blizzcon hes 100% better than Maru..bc Maru lost one series to his teamate to what was clearly build order counters in a trashed up matchup. Im pointing out that players have strengths and weaknesses. Clearly Marus biggest weakness is facing Protoss specificially one who has master crafted a counter to his style. Everything you saw from Serral this year would have to point to ZvT as his weakness as its the only matchup we saw all year that looked one sided against him. Special is the only foreign Terran who has proven to be code S capable and by far the best foreign Terran Serral had to worry about all year. Entering code S he will gaurenteed get matched up with multiple Terrans all substantially better than Special. My issue is not at all with saying that Serral could be better than Maru its with people using Blizzcon as proof of it. Its not logical.
Serral 3-0 INnoVation. ZvT isn't a weakness of him he's perfect.
That doesnt count though, we all know he would have lost 0-7 in a best of three against even Bunny, let alone TY or Maru, I mean you dont really need more proof than how cowardly he dodged all the terrans at Blizzcon, and only faced trash tier innovation in GSL vs the world.
Therefore we must conclude his ZvT is worthless, and anyways, nobody cares or even watches all these weekend tournaments
are you kidding me? there are people discrediting him in this very thread, dedicated to his victory
Yep, the toxicity of some like Charoisaur is pretty strong, that's a bit a shame of trolling the thread dedicated to the first foreigner win on the wcs global even but I am sure he will get ultimetely warned or banned if he follows too much this road.
are you kidding me? there are people discrediting him in this very thread, dedicated to his victory
Yep, the toxicity of some like Charoisaur is pretty strong, that's a bit a shame of trolling the thread dedicated to the first foreigner win on the wcs global even but I am sure he will get ultimetely warned or banned if he follows too much this road.
you confuse me with someone? I'm praising him the entire time.
On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote: GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it.
this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals.
"could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did.
and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND.
It's honestly getting absurd at this point.
If you are gonna full on rage u shouldnt cherry pick facts. Maru 3 0d him in the only series they played this year. Blizzcon was super impressive but he didnt meet even 1 kr terran. Code S is more difficult 100%. Doesnt mean i dont think he can do it but its a fact. You say he won everything but winning wcs is a joke at this point so really he won blizzcon and super tournament and lost wesg and katowice. Still best foreigner ever..but get a grip on reality.
that was in march. Serral destroyed him at GSL vs the world which proved that he's superior to him. Maru continually gets slapped by koreans like sOs and Stats and people still act like he'd stand a chance against Serral LOL. And people need to get a reality check on the skill level of WCS. maybe GSL is 10% more competitive but it's not much harder to win it than WCS. Neeb placed higher in the GSL in one try than in 4 tries in WCS. Serral is by far the best player in the world right now and him not playing vs players that are too bad to advance far enough to face him is irrelevant.
Mmmm... see I think this goes too far in the other direction. It's possible to go too far in the direction of Maru, by saying WCS are trash tournaments or that Serral got lucky, or something; but you and a few others are going too far in the direction of Serral by saying he's "by far the best" and dismissing Maru as a "too bad to advance far enough to face him". It was a good win. An historic win. And it very well might be the case that Serral is the better player and the best player. But it's not like foreigners haven't won tournaments with Koreans in them before. In fact, there are many foreigners who have won tournaments with Koreans in them. Serrral is different because he showed a much higher level of dominance during the year and also won the World Championship tournament; but it's not "absurd" for someone to say they think Maru had the better year or might be the better player overall.
If Serral and Maru had switched places at the beginning of the year, would Maru have a better chance of winning 4 WCS or would Serral have a better chance of winning 3 GSL? Who knows, but I think the aligulac stats might favor Maru in that scenario. So if someone says they think Maru is better they have a good argument.
But at the end of the day, Serral is the World Champ and Maru went out in Ro8.
are you kidding me? there are people discrediting him in this very thread, dedicated to his victory
Yep, the toxicity of some like Charoisaur is pretty strong, that's a bit a shame of trolling the thread dedicated to the first foreigner win on the wcs global even but I am sure he will get ultimetely warned or banned if he follows too much this road.
you confuse me with someone? I'm praising him the entire time.
You must think your snarky comments are the height of cunning. Are you giggling in front of your screen about how damn clever you are?
Oh yeah, Einstein, you sure know Starcraft and everything better than me. Late game doesn't mean a hard game : a diamond or plat could draw you into a late game, but gonna lose anyway. Serral was never in danger in that 4th game. And the only one he gave to Rogue was because of an uncharacteristic rush/all-in.
Finally we agree, especially on that diamond or plat could draw me into a late game because one diamond just won a game against Serral on Sunday.
I always like to end discussion with mutual agreement.
It's not an agreement, it's just me making fun of you: if you care to read my comment above, I'm saying that rogue is definitely one of the best in world, you genius ^^
are you kidding me? there are people discrediting him in this very thread, dedicated to his victory
Yep, the toxicity of some like Charoisaur is pretty strong, that's a bit a shame of trolling the thread dedicated to the first foreigner win on the wcs global even but I am sure he will get ultimetely warned or banned if he follows too much this road.
you confuse me with someone? I'm praising him the entire time.
You must think your snarky comments are the height of cunning. Are you giggling in front of your screen about how damn clever you are?
no snarky comments here - you (and a few others) have just convinced me that Serral is the best.
On November 06 2018 05:22 Pandain wrote: The four WCS victories aren't nothing of course, but people could easily see any top korean doing that.
And that's where you are wrong. Serral had a lot more trouble with his WCS Montreal title than he had at Blizzcon, so I'd at least exclude the Korean Zergs with the "easy" title for top koreans.
Let me give you an example.
If Stats was somehow able to enter WCS this year, and take Serral out of the equation, would you have been shocked if he had won 4 in a row? In fact, I think we would expect that to happen like 70-80% of the time.
I want to clarify that it's still remarkable, but we shouldn't be over-exaggerating it either.
I also want to clarify that honestly I think Serral, especially his play the second half of the year, could have consistently won/gone extremely far in any global event he entered, but just that we can't point to his 4 WCS wins as completely amazing. Completely amazing for a foreigner of course, but we would expect Stats or Maru or even Rogue or a number of top koreans to do the same.
No way, the skill difference between Serral and Stats is gigantic as he trashed him in 2 separate series (Stats only won with cheese) and even Serral had trouble winning WCS with several close series. A player like Stats who is so much worse than Serral would at most win 1-2 WCS seasons in a year.
Since when we call timing push a cheese?
As you said earlier about the matches of Maru vs sOs and Stats. Do not forget that the matchups in starcraft are often like rock paper scissor. It is not like when player 1 beats player 2 and player 2 beats player 3 then player 1 > player 3. For example Maru has problems with sOs but Serral wiped the floor with sOs in the group stage. On the other hand Maru regularly dominates Neeb in matches. Is he like 4-0 in 20 minutes from the matches of GSL groups and wcs global finals? Yet Neeb is first player to end Serrals winning streak in convincing way (I get it was in an online tournament but Serral is not supposed to lose to Neeb 3:0 even in these matches).
Lambo lost to Serral 2:3 in Montreal yet there was no chance in groups vs Maru for him. TY has usually problems with Neeb but TY was a huge obstacle in GSL finals season 3 for Maru and Neeb has problems with Dark.
On November 06 2018 06:36 derpistole wrote: Cmon Koreaboos ! Serral is the best player of 2018, fact. Best foreigner of all time, fact. And maybe the best SC2 player all time.
Bayern Munich wins the German Championship. Manchester United wins the Premiere League. Bayern Munich wins the Championsleague.
Manchester United so is much better cause the Premiere League is much harder to win !!!!11111
Maru only got 3 GSL titles cause Serral was not in there... BONJWA
lmao what a way to bait korean elitist and PL elitist
On November 05 2018 05:02 Dave4 wrote: 6 Premier victories in one calendar year. And he can still make it 7.
Absolutely Savage.
Poll: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
Best Player of 2018 (485)
63%
Best foreigner of 2018 (128)
17%
GOAT (106)
14%
Best Zerg of 2018 (26)
3%
Noob foreigner (23)
3%
768 total votes
Your vote: Serral's place in SC2 History (following BlizzCon Victory)
(Vote): Best foreigner of 2018 (Vote): Best Zerg of 2018 (Vote): Best Player of 2018 (Vote): GOAT (Vote): Noob foreigner
He is a beast and all those wins are crazy, but three consecutive GSLs is still more impressive for me. Best Foreigner of All Time and Current Best Zerg (possibly in the running for best all time) but best player? Nah, still Maru.
I sucks to be Maru right now. Any other year in SC2 history winning all 3 GSLs would cement you as best player no questions asked, but now Serral throws some doubt on that.
Well.. now that I'm looking at Serral's actual tournament wins, his run looks much less impressive. Obviously he gets props for winning the World Championship, but Maru is far, far ahead in my opinion. Maru won tournaments against objectively better opponents, Serral won the big, subjective story-line.
Nah, winning 3 GSLs is nothing. If Serral had competed in GSL Maru would have won 0 GSLs. WCS is harder than GSL anyway (Serral dropped more maps vs Scarlett, Lambo and Reynor than vs top koreans at blizzcon) So Serral won 4 tournaments harder than the GSL and on top of that GSLvsTW and Blizzcon. No series dropped in 9 months. Definitely GOAT and bonjwa now. But keep denying it korean elitists. So funny to see the haters doing mental gymnastics to discredit his win.
It's good that Maru got eliminated early. Serral would have demolished him in 15 minutes. He's just on another level than any player ever was.
Not saying you're wrong about that Serral probably destroying Maru if they would have met but calling Serral GOAT is that just troll bait? I mean bonjwa you can argue for, GOAT you kinda can't. The only reason Maru was in the discussions was because he has shown years of S level results before winning three GSLs in a row. Serral literally has nothing pre 2018, he isn't even top top 5 GOAT, not even close. One year of top results is not enough to get you past players that have done almost the same thing but also more for several more years.
Best in the world for sure, better than Maru based on results for sure but greatest of all time? Lets not get ahead of ourselves here.
sorry, with GOAT I meant best in terms of skill level not in terms of achievements. Since that's typically not what Goat means I probably used the wrong term. But in terms of skill level he's definitely the best ever - he does things we have never seen before. Perfect defense, multitasking and lategame play. Only peak Inno came somewhat close.
I have to agree, I think that Maru and a few others have remarkedly better micro than Serral, but it is not like Zerg was ever a micro heavy race, so it doesn't really damper Serral's overall skill too much.
On November 06 2018 02:15 machinus wrote: GSL is harder than WCS. Maru beats Stats all the time in Korea.
This argument isn't going to die because we never got to see the head to head matchup everyone wanted.
The real question is whether or not Serral could win 3 GSLs in a row, which any reasonable person would have to admit is probably impossible. It's still astounding that Maru did it.
this is ridiculous. WCS champions is the culmination of GSLs. It's the top performing GSL players that are even in the WCS championships in the first place. Neeb got Ro4 in GSL and didn't even make it past groups in the WCS finals. Maru won 3 GSL in a row and lost 3-0 in the quarterfinals.
"could serral win 3 gsls in a row" is a silly question. you're picking a completely arbitrary and highly luck based standard, while completely ignoring the obvious metric which is literally what serral just did.
and furthermore to claim that him "winning 3 GSLS in a row is probably impossible" is honestly just stupid. exactly what evidence is there that Maru is more capable than he is. no please, really. who has shown more consistency and ability over the last year, the guy who literally won everything, or the guy who just lost in the ro8 in the biggest tournament of the year? and oh yeah, that same guy (maru) lost in the OTHER big tournament that had serral in it as well, which Serral ALSO won that one. AND BEAT HIM IN THEIR SHOWMATCH THAT VERY WEEKEND.
It's honestly getting absurd at this point.
If you are gonna full on rage u shouldnt cherry pick facts. Maru 3 0d him in the only series they played this year. Blizzcon was super impressive but he didnt meet even 1 kr terran. Code S is more difficult 100%. Doesnt mean i dont think he can do it but its a fact. You say he won everything but winning wcs is a joke at this point so really he won blizzcon and super tournament and lost wesg and katowice. Still best foreigner ever..but get a grip on reality.
that was in march. Serral destroyed him at GSL vs the world which proved that he's superior to him. Maru continually gets slapped by koreans like sOs and Stats and people still act like he'd stand a chance against Serral LOL. And people need to get a reality check on the skill level of WCS. maybe GSL is 10% more competitive but it's not much harder to win it than WCS. Neeb placed higher in the GSL in one try than in 4 tries in WCS. Serral is by far the best player in the world right now and him not playing vs players that are too bad to advance far enough to face him is irrelevant.
Yah sorry dont agree. Serral "destroyed" him im a bo1 showmatch that was for nothing. Maru destroyed him when it counted for 200K 3 to 0. Beating inno is impressive no doubt. But you cant just make up that all the sudden hes good enough to do that to Maru. Just like I cant say he isnt because we dont know. Neither of us lol. Hopefully we will get to see. Maru made lambo look absurd in their match..supposedly the second best zerg..to just speculate that Serrals tvz is 10 x lambos is a bit of nonsense. Ill give him the 3 0 vs inno thats without a doubt impressive but it doesnt gift him being better than Maru.
Speaking of that.. we should try to figure out a way to crowd fund a best of 21 or something headsup! Would just have to figure out how to make latency work..bet we could raise a shitton lol.
Once all of this pathetic "foreigner" obsession goes away, we'll realize that any player who wins Code S three times in a row is way more impressive than winning Blizzcon.
On November 06 2018 05:22 Pandain wrote: The four WCS victories aren't nothing of course, but people could easily see any top korean doing that.
And that's where you are wrong. Serral had a lot more trouble with his WCS Montreal title than he had at Blizzcon, so I'd at least exclude the Korean Zergs with the "easy" title for top koreans.
Let me give you an example.
If Stats was somehow able to enter WCS this year, and take Serral out of the equation, would you have been shocked if he had won 4 in a row? In fact, I think we would expect that to happen like 70-80% of the time.
I want to clarify that it's still remarkable, but we shouldn't be over-exaggerating it either.
I also want to clarify that honestly I think Serral, especially his play the second half of the year, could have consistently won/gone extremely far in any global event he entered, but just that we can't point to his 4 WCS wins as completely amazing. Completely amazing for a foreigner of course, but we would expect Stats or Maru or even Rogue or a number of top koreans to do the same.
No way, the skill difference between Serral and Stats is gigantic as he trashed him in 2 separate series (Stats only won with cheese) and even Serral had trouble winning WCS with several close series. A player like Stats who is so much worse than Serral would at most win 1-2 WCS seasons in a year.
Since when we call timing push a cheese?
As you said earlier about the matches of Maru vs sOs and Stats. Do not forget that the matchups in starcraft are often like rock paper scissor. It is not like when player 1 beats player 2 and player 2 beats player 3 then player 1 > player 3. For example Maru has problems with sOs but Serral wiped the floor with sOs in the group stage. On the other hand Maru regularly dominates Neeb in matches. Is he like 4-0 in 20 minutes from the matches of GSL groups and wcs global finals? Yet Neeb is first player to end Serrals winning streak in convincing way (I get it was in an online tournament but Serral is not supposed to lose to Neeb 3:0 even in these matches).
Lambo lost to Serral 2:3 in Montreal yet there was no chance in groups vs Maru for him. TY has usually problems with Neeb but TY was a huge obstacle in GSL finals season 3 for Maru and Neeb has problems with Dark.
The list could go on and on.
Kind of off-topic and not really trying to prove or disprove your point, but Serral lost 3-0 to Neeb right before Blizzcon when Serral had 2 protosses in his group and Neeb had 0 zergs. Serral probably didn't show much skill in those games to make sure his opponents had as little info on his current form and strategies as possible. Still, Neeb did 3-0 him and I can't really say he didn't win the games fair and square
On November 06 2018 07:46 machinus wrote: Once all of this pathetic "foreigner" obsession goes away, we'll realize that any player who wins Code S three times in a row is way more impressive than winning Blizzcon.
Maru comes out on top for 2018.
Winning three back-to-back GSL seasons is an incredible feat of skill and tenacity that should be celebrated in the years to come.
Winning four back-to-back Circuit tournaments, GSL vs the World and BlizzCon is an incredible feat of skill and tenacity that should be celebrated in the years to come.
Winning three back-to-back GSL seasons does not take away from winning four back-to-back Circuit tournaments, GSL vs the World and Blizzcon.
Winning four back-to-back Circuit tournaments, GSL vs the World and BlizzCon does not take away from winning three back-to-back GSL seasons.
On November 06 2018 05:22 Pandain wrote: Obviously the best year of any foreigner by far, and amazing how I'm pretty sure 99% of people would agree he's the best foreigner of all time after just one year.
Humans generally think in terms of crowd opinion instead of hard data. And that's only natural as we can't really process data like a computer. And there's likely lots of bias involved than people would admit or even aware of.
On November 06 2018 07:46 machinus wrote: Once all of this pathetic "foreigner" obsession goes away, we'll realize that any player who wins Code S three times in a row is way more impressive than winning Blizzcon.
Maru comes out on top for 2018.
Winning three back-to-back GSL seasons is an incredible feat of skill and tenacity that should be celebrated in the years to come.
Winning four back-to-back Circuit tournaments, GSL vs the World and BlizzCon is an incredible feat of skill and tenacity that should be celebrated in the years to come.
Winning three back-to-back GSL seasons does not take away from winning four back-to-back Circuit tournaments, GSL vs the World and Blizzcon.
Winning four back-to-back Circuit tournaments, GSL vs the World and BlizzCon does not take away from winning three back-to-back GSL seasons.
Can someone explain why anyone would be anti-serral, like the few in this thread? From what I've seen he's been nothing but humble and pleasant, all while being the most prodigious player we've ever seen in 8 years of starcraft 2.
On November 06 2018 05:22 Pandain wrote: The four WCS victories aren't nothing of course, but people could easily see any top korean doing that.
And that's where you are wrong. Serral had a lot more trouble with his WCS Montreal title than he had at Blizzcon, so I'd at least exclude the Korean Zergs with the "easy" title for top koreans.
Let me give you an example.
If Stats was somehow able to enter WCS this year, and take Serral out of the equation, would you have been shocked if he had won 4 in a row? In fact, I think we would expect that to happen like 70-80% of the time.
I want to clarify that it's still remarkable, but we shouldn't be over-exaggerating it either.
I also want to clarify that honestly I think Serral, especially his play the second half of the year, could have consistently won/gone extremely far in any global event he entered, but just that we can't point to his 4 WCS wins as completely amazing. Completely amazing for a foreigner of course, but we would expect Stats or Maru or even Rogue or a number of top koreans to do the same.
No way, the skill difference between Serral and Stats is gigantic as he trashed him in 2 separate series (Stats only won with cheese) and even Serral had trouble winning WCS with several close series. A player like Stats who is so much worse than Serral would at most win 1-2 WCS seasons in a year.
Since when we call timing push a cheese?
As you said earlier about the matches of Maru vs sOs and Stats. Do not forget that the matchups in starcraft are often like rock paper scissor. It is not like when player 1 beats player 2 and player 2 beats player 3 then player 1 > player 3. For example Maru has problems with sOs but Serral wiped the floor with sOs in the group stage. On the other hand Maru regularly dominates Neeb in matches. Is he like 4-0 in 20 minutes from the matches of GSL groups and wcs global finals? Yet Neeb is first player to end Serrals winning streak in convincing way (I get it was in an online tournament but Serral is not supposed to lose to Neeb 3:0 even in these matches).
Lambo lost to Serral 2:3 in Montreal yet there was no chance in groups vs Maru for him. TY has usually problems with Neeb but TY was a huge obstacle in GSL finals season 3 for Maru and Neeb has problems with Dark.
The list could go on and on.
Kind of off-topic and not really trying to prove or disprove your point, but Serral lost 3-0 to Neeb right before Blizzcon when Serral had 2 protosses in his group and Neeb had 0 zergs. Serral probably didn't show much skill in those games to make sure his opponents had as little info on his current form and strategies as possible. Still, Neeb did 3-0 him and I can't really say he didn't win the games fair and square
I understand your point and it would totally make sense to not show any builds etc but I just watched the games briefly and I hope that I remember the games well.
Neeb defeated Serral with mid game timings with storm, archon, immortal army with (not sure exactly) 2-2 upgrades. And games won by Stats were exactly the same. (I really can not say how were the openers, but the main battles were quite the same) It looks like you need to hit the gap just before hive tech units. Maybe it is Serral's weakness, maybe it is his only one.
I also think that after Stats defeated Special (or maybe sOs) he told that he prepared only for match with special and didnt prepare for other matches in the playoffs. Maybe if he saw that game of Neeb vs Serral finals would be closer yet all of these are just huge guesses and almost all of them are pointless. I still wonder if that window which is needed to be hit is real (if it is then how serral will try to figure it out) or I missed something else.
On November 05 2018 04:35 Musicus wrote: Big congrats once again. Definitely the best foreigner of all time and if he keeps this up he could become a real legend.
Just imagine if he keeps this up in 2019 and 2020. The next test will be HSC.
Great games by Stats too, almost thought he wouldn't take a map but then he showed his class.
I'd say other than the other than Life, Serral definitely showed that he can stand against the other best Zergs. Rogue, Dark, etc. Serral is in another league from the foreigners.
On November 06 2018 07:46 machinus wrote: Once all of this pathetic "foreigner" obsession goes away, we'll realize that any player who wins Code S three times in a row is way more impressive than winning Blizzcon.
Maru comes out on top for 2018.
I don't understand this. It's like saying billionaire made another million dollars. This was a broke ass homeless dude who just made a million dollars. It's not the best analogy but you are looking at this so horribly wrong. Of course Maru winning GSL is impressive, and nobody is saying Serral > Maru. People are saying he is the greatest foreigner who has accomplished something NOBODY in the foreign scene has accomplished.
he saved up all his emotion for the highest moment on his career...
watching his games since Nation War where he almost take down South Korea has been a great SC2 experiences for me personally
I don't know if he could do anything on GSL or not since it has different format... but Serral is truly one of the best player that ever played this game for me
For those saying that Serral hasn't won a GSL... why would he go to GSL and suffer the following? It was a fair for him to compete in this own tournaments whilst korea compete in their own. Then they meet up in a neutral setting to find out the best-of-the-best. Guess what??? He won the super tournament and blizzcon
- Being away from your "home base", don't discount the importance of training infrastructure and family/friends support
- Cost of living in Korea playing sporadic games. How about you fund his costs of living
On November 06 2018 07:46 machinus wrote: Once all of this pathetic "foreigner" obsession goes away, we'll realize that any player who wins Code S three times in a row is way more impressive than winning Blizzcon.
Maru comes out on top for 2018.
Winning three back-to-back GSL seasons is an incredible feat of skill and tenacity that should be celebrated in the years to come.
Winning four back-to-back Circuit tournaments, GSL vs the World and BlizzCon is an incredible feat of skill and tenacity that should be celebrated in the years to come.
Winning three back-to-back GSL seasons does not take away from winning four back-to-back Circuit tournaments, GSL vs the World and Blizzcon.
Winning four back-to-back Circuit tournaments, GSL vs the World and BlizzCon does not take away from winning three back-to-back GSL seasons.
On November 06 2018 07:46 machinus wrote: Once all of this pathetic "foreigner" obsession goes away, we'll realize that any player who wins Code S three times in a row is way more impressive than winning Blizzcon.
Maru comes out on top for 2018.
Winning three back-to-back GSL seasons is an incredible feat of skill and tenacity that should be celebrated in the years to come.
Winning four back-to-back Circuit tournaments, GSL vs the World and BlizzCon is an incredible feat of skill and tenacity that should be celebrated in the years to come.
Winning three back-to-back GSL seasons does not take away from winning four back-to-back Circuit tournaments, GSL vs the World and Blizzcon.
Winning four back-to-back Circuit tournaments, GSL vs the World and BlizzCon does not take away from winning three back-to-back GSL seasons.
To be honest, I think the gap between WCS events and GSL has closed quite a bit. Players who played in both GSL and WCS had comparable results across the two formats. Not saying GSL isn't still the more competitive event- it clearly still is- but I don't think think it's unreasonable to say that the gap was much closer this year than it has ever been. There are now a core group of foreigners such as Showtime, Scarlett, Special, Reynor, Neeb, ect who consistently play against and occasionally win series against top Korean players. And I think there are some more foreigners, such as uThermal, Lambo and Heromarine, who would do the same if they had more opportunities to play against top Koreans.
Maru had one of the best years SC2 has ever seen. If Serral hadn't had the year he did, there's no doubt we'd be calling it the best of this year and maybe the best we've ever seen in SC2, even better than MVP's 2011. But I have to give Serral the edge, not only because of the events he won, but also because of the manner in which he did it. The start of his year was shaky, but as the year progressed he become more and more consistent, to the point that by the end of the year in GSL vs the World and Blizzcon, he looked unstoppable. After WESG in March, he didn't lose a single set for 7 months straight until he played Neeb in Starladder, and he followed that up by winning Blizzcon. He definitely proved himself against Korea's top P's and Z's (Stats, sOs, Zest, Dark and Rogue), though you could argue he never really faced the top T's going 3-3 vs Maru for the year and 3-0 vs a slumping Innovation.
Even if you only look at Bo3+ Matches vs Koreans, Serral is 17-2 (~89%) vs Maru's 31-16 (~66%) for the year. Yes, it's only about 1/3 of the matches played vs Koreans, but it's an insanely higher win percentage.
On November 06 2018 07:46 machinus wrote: Once all of this pathetic "foreigner" obsession goes away, we'll realize that any player who wins Code S three times in a row is way more impressive than winning Blizzcon.
Maru comes out on top for 2018.
Winning three back-to-back GSL seasons is an incredible feat of skill and tenacity that should be celebrated in the years to come.
Winning four back-to-back Circuit tournaments, GSL vs the World and BlizzCon is an incredible feat of skill and tenacity that should be celebrated in the years to come.
Winning three back-to-back GSL seasons does not take away from winning four back-to-back Circuit tournaments, GSL vs the World and Blizzcon.
Winning four back-to-back Circuit tournaments, GSL vs the World and BlizzCon does not take away from winning three back-to-back GSL seasons.
Thank you. I really dont understand how people are even comparing the two let alone dismissing any for some reason. Ehy does it even matter - i never know.
On November 06 2018 07:46 machinus wrote: Once all of this pathetic "foreigner" obsession goes away, we'll realize that any player who wins Code S three times in a row is way more impressive than winning Blizzcon.
Maru comes out on top for 2018.
I don't understand this. It's like saying billionaire made another million dollars. This was a broke ass homeless dude who just made a million dollars. It's not the best analogy but you are looking at this so horribly wrong. Of course Maru winning GSL is impressive, and nobody is saying Serral > Maru. People are saying he is the greatest foreigner who has accomplished something NOBODY in the foreign scene has accomplished.
I am saying: Serral right now is better than Maru. They have competed together in 2 premier tournaments in recent months. Serral has won both, and Maru hasn't even gotten do the finals. Both players who won Maru, lost to Serral. Serral is the best, forget the rest.
On November 06 2018 07:46 machinus wrote: Once all of this pathetic "foreigner" obsession goes away, we'll realize that any player who wins Code S three times in a row is way more impressive than winning Blizzcon.
Maru comes out on top for 2018.
I don't understand this. It's like saying billionaire made another million dollars. This was a broke ass homeless dude who just made a million dollars. It's not the best analogy but you are looking at this so horribly wrong. Of course Maru winning GSL is impressive, and nobody is saying Serral > Maru. People are saying he is the greatest foreigner who has accomplished something NOBODY in the foreign scene has accomplished.
I am saying: Serral right now is better than Maru. They have competed together in 2 premier tournaments in recent months. Serral has won both, and Maru hasn't even gotten do the finals. Both players who won Maru, lost to Serral. Serral is the best, forget the rest.
Televised series are considered the ultimate form of competitive starcraft because it's weeks of preparation, hundreds of games to prepare against a specific opponent, hours to dissect his play style. Players just give up on other match-ups during that time. At least it's how they depicted their preparation during team houses days, I'm not so sure they have this level of practice noawadays.
Mind you it's totally acceptable to think it's just a different form of competition and should not be held in higher esteem than week long tournaments, even if the consensus still is to rate televised tournaments higher.
As small as it is, it seems that even the Korean SC2 community is widely praising Serral more so than some of the anti-Serral people who aren't even Korean. It's hilarious, really.
the best foreigner of all time, best SC player os 2018, best year for a foreigner and probably of any player all time..
Pure domination!
Hope you grind it to another good run next year so that you can be forever remembered as one of the best SC players of all time and not a one year fluke
On November 06 2018 07:46 machinus wrote: Once all of this pathetic "foreigner" obsession goes away, we'll realize that any player who wins Code S three times in a row is way more impressive than winning Blizzcon.
Maru comes out on top for 2018.
Worldchampion is the best player in the world
Winning 3 tourneys and losing when it matters in the big one (to 8th player in the korean seeds) doesn't make you the worlds best.
On November 06 2018 07:46 machinus wrote: Once all of this pathetic "foreigner" obsession goes away, we'll realize that any player who wins Code S three times in a row is way more impressive than winning Blizzcon.
Maru comes out on top for 2018.
Winning world championship is actually the definition of world champion. And that means he is the best player in the world.
On November 06 2018 19:27 Kommander wrote: As small as it is, it seems that even the Korean SC2 community is widely praising Serral more so than some of the anti-Serral people who aren't even Korean. It's hilarious, really.
I think Serral it's the best right now, as he won the last major tournament. But the best player in 2018? That's really hard to say. Winning blizzcon doesn't make you the best player of the year, otherwise SOS would be the best player in the world in 2013 and 2015, and no one ever claimed that(as far as I know). The problem is Maru was allowed to compete only in GSL, IEM, WESG, Super Tournaments and Blizzcon. Serral was allowed to compete in all of these + the 4 WCS events. He chose to ignore GSL, it was he's choice. Maru and other Koreans could not play WCS, no choice there. Other top foreigners played both GSL and WCS events. Even if we ignore the fact that he has 0 results in GSL, there is the fact they had IEM, WESG and Blizzcon allone as major tournaments where they both competed. In the first 2 Maru had better results, including direct win over Serral. It's really hard to say who had the better year. I tend to give it to Maru because I feel GSL > WCS (anyone can play in GSL, some players are forbidden from WCS, I don't think anyone can argue the restrictive tournament is better), and Bllizzcon ~= IEM + WESG. But it's very close.
If Maru won IEM World Championship I'd probably agree with you, but actually Rogue did.
So it's more likely we can compare 3 GSL to 4WCS+GSL vs the world(slight edge to Maru, maybe), but then it's just Serral's Blizzcon vs Maru's WESG! Serral comes out on top, even if not by a mile; Maru's 2018 is still one of the best years a Sc2 player has ever had.
As for Rogue winning three weekenders in late 2017 including Blizzcon(the fourth took place in 2018) and not been acclaimed as the best player of the year unlike Serral in 2018:five is way more than three and Rogue accomplished nothing before those wins, whereas Serral already had a WCS plus top placements in WESG and Katowice.
On November 06 2018 20:59 da.ta wrote: I think Serral it's the best right now, as he won the last major tournament. But the best player in 2018? That's really hard to say. Winning blizzcon doesn't make you the best player of the year, otherwise SOS would be the best player in the world in 2013 and 2015, and no one ever claimed that(as far as I know). The problem is Maru was allowed to compete only in GSL, IEM, WESG, Super Tournaments and Blizzcon. Serral was allowed to compete in all of these + the 4 WCS events. He chose to ignore GSL, it was he's choice. Maru and other Koreans could not play WCS, no choice there. Other top foreigners played both GSL and WCS events. Even if we ignore the fact that he has 0 results in GSL, there is the fact they had IEM, WESG and Blizzcon allone as major tournaments where they both competed. In the first 2 Maru had better results, including direct win over Serral. It's really hard to say who had the better year. I tend to give it to Maru because I feel GSL > WCS (anyone can play in GSL, some players are forbidden from WCS, I don't think anyone can argue the restrictive tournament is better), and Bllizzcon ~= IEM + WESG. But it's very close.
Maru and Serral had the same result in IEM, both semi-finalist. Also I don't see why GSLvsworld isn't also in the list.
GSL vs the world seems kinda like Home Story cup to me as importance. Nice tournament, great players, but no one takes it too serious. At least that's how I perceive it. And in the previous years it did not seem that anyone really cared who won it when discussing about best players. After all, we have public voting to decide participants. It just doesn't feel major, at least not to me. About IEM, my mistake. It's been a while and I thought Serral went out in quarters. So IEM out of the question, same result there. GSL> WCS? Do you agree? Blizzcon > WESG? Agree?
Let's call it a draw then between them and let's be all happy
Only issue remaining it's that Serral chose not to play GSL, Maru could not play WCS. But this can not be solved by us
I wouldn't underestimate GSL vs the world that much. Serral is 100k ahead in earnings, that too should mean something.
Moving to Korea mid season would have been a weird decision and at the start of the year Serral wasn't the player he is now. If he has desire of, he will be able to compete in GSL next year!
Maru's year was astonishing, Serral's just a little more in my opinion.
On November 06 2018 22:04 da.ta wrote: GSL vs the world seems kinda like Home Story cup to me as importance. Nice tournament, great players, but no one takes it too serious. At least that's how I perceive it. And in the previous years it did not seem that anyone really cared who won it when discussing about best players. After all, we have public voting to decide participants. It just doesn't feel major, at least not to me. About IEM, my mistake. It's been a while and I thought Serral went out in quarters. So IEM out of the question, same result there. GSL> WCS? Do you agree? Blizzcon > WESG? Agree?
Let's call it a draw then between them and let's be all happy
Only issue remaining it's that Serral chose not to play GSL, Maru could not play WCS. But this can not be solved by us
No. I will not be happy untill everyone acknowlodges Serral as the best player of 2018, of living history in StarCraft and as rightful king of Westeros!!
We should get something like a whole tournament just Maru and Serral, a whole week of best of 7, like 7 best of seven ) I really don't care who would win, but I think everyone would love it.
I think right now Serral would win, in this patch. In the one from the early part of the year, I think Maru would win.
On November 06 2018 22:46 da.ta wrote: We should get something like a whole tournament just Maru and Serral, a whole week of best of 7, like 7 best of seven ) I really don't care who would win, but I think everyone would love it.
I think right now Serral would win, in this patch. In the one from the early part of the year, I think Maru would win.
A tournament with a round robin of bo7s, between Maru, Serral, Stats, Rogue, TY and Sos (probably the top6 in most ppls opinions) with 2 from each race... Not a bad idea.
Been watching sc2 for a long time and Serral is definitely one of a kind.
The way he plays is just outstanding. He makes the right call all the time. You just see and understand his play even if you don't have the in depth knowledge. It's quite amazing to watch.
On November 06 2018 07:46 machinus wrote: Once all of this pathetic "foreigner" obsession goes away, we'll realize that any player who wins Code S three times in a row is way more impressive than winning Blizzcon.
Maru comes out on top for 2018.
I don't understand this. It's like saying billionaire made another million dollars. This was a broke ass homeless dude who just made a million dollars. It's not the best analogy but you are looking at this so horribly wrong. Of course Maru winning GSL is impressive, and nobody is saying Serral > Maru. People are saying he is the greatest foreigner who has accomplished something NOBODY in the foreign scene has accomplished.
I am saying: Serral right now is better than Maru. They have competed together in 2 premier tournaments in recent months. Serral has won both, and Maru hasn't even gotten do the finals. Both players who won Maru, lost to Serral. Serral is the best, forget the rest.
You may be right... but best of 7 is the most convincing... considering how LoTV matches are so short.. why aren't we making matches the best of 7 or more, for more matches?
On November 06 2018 22:34 Xain0n wrote: I wouldn't underestimate GSL vs the world that much. Serral is 100k ahead in earnings, that too should mean something.
On November 06 2018 22:34 Xain0n wrote: I wouldn't underestimate GSL vs the world that much. Serral is 100k ahead in earnings, that too should mean something.
But I have a feeling that gap will start to close next year.. WESG and IEM are gonna be interesting!
He's talking about this years earnings in which Serral is well ahead of Maru - as he is in every other aspect. Better winrate, more tournaments won, Wins the head-to-head 2-1 (beat him at Katowice qualifiers and GSL vs the world while only losing at WESG because Ravens were OP back then), more handsome. Simply the best RTS gamer of all time - Maru doesn't come close.
On November 06 2018 22:34 Xain0n wrote: I wouldn't underestimate GSL vs the world that much. Serral is 100k ahead in earnings, that too should mean something.
But I have a feeling that gap will start to close next year.. WESG and IEM are gonna be interesting!
He's talking about this years earnings in which Serral is well ahead of Maru - as he is in every other aspect. Better winrate, more tournaments won, Wins the head-to-head 2-1 (beat him at Katowice qualifiers and GSL vs the world while only losing at WESG because Ravens were OP back then), more handsome. Simply the best RTS gamer of all time - Maru doesn't come close.
On November 06 2018 22:34 Xain0n wrote: I wouldn't underestimate GSL vs the world that much. Serral is 100k ahead in earnings, that too should mean something.
But I have a feeling that gap will start to close next year.. WESG and IEM are gonna be interesting!
He's talking about this years earnings in which Serral is well ahead of Maru - as he is in every other aspect. Better winrate, more tournaments won, Wins the head-to-head 2-1 (beat him at Katowice qualifiers and GSL vs the world while only losing at WESG because Ravens were OP back then), more handsome. Simply the best RTS gamer of all time - Maru doesn't come close.
loooooooooool
Whats funny about that ? It's the truth - straight facts. What archieved Maru this year ? 3 GSL, gj congrats wasnt that easy. Serral made Dark/sOs/Zest look like diamond players and on top of that he won the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP were the best players compete. Maru didnt even reached the semis and lost to sOs straight 0:3 - btw Serral won 0:2 vs sOs and made him look like a gold player. Right now Serral is untouchable in every aspect
I wasnt around for Bonjwas in BW and in SC2 we never really had them. At one point can we discuss Serral being one? The guy obliterated everyone for an entire year, how long does he have to continue?
On November 07 2018 05:09 Zeon0 wrote: I wasnt around for Bonjwas in BW and in SC2 we never really had them. At one point can we discuss Serral being one? The guy obliterated everyone for an entire year, how long does he have to continue?
For context, all previous BW Bonjwas were extremely consistent title contenders for at least 2-3 years, won multiple (5+) premier tournaments in dominant fashion, and were meta defining players, whose legacy persists through time affecting all pros after them. The only player in SC2 who is remotely close to this feat is Mvp. And no, Serral still has a LONG way to go.
On November 07 2018 05:09 Zeon0 wrote: I wasnt around for Bonjwas in BW and in SC2 we never really had them. At one point can we discuss Serral being one? The guy obliterated everyone for an entire year, how long does he have to continue?
Even if Serral wins next year 3 GSL and outclass everyone and spends all his winnings for charity - the Koreaboos here would say "GSL not strong anymore, Korean scene is dead"
When Maru vs Serral play a bo21 and Serral win 11:0 they would say "Maru was not motivated"
There was never in SC2 history a player with that perfection and dominance in EVERY aspect of the game.
After years of skewing the international competition in favor of people not Korean a Finn won a big tournament. Big news, congratz SC2 community and Activision-Blizzard, you truly made Esports history with that.
On November 07 2018 07:16 Vincenzo wrote: This Blizzcon was much worse than that of Byun or that of Rogue. Even if Serral was on point, no memorable games.
2016 was by far the worst blizzcon ever. Only one good game on king sejong isn't enough to save that since we've seen nothing else than reaper abuse. At least Serral and Stats are delivered good games this blizzcon.
On November 07 2018 07:16 Vincenzo wrote: This Blizzcon was much worse than that of Byun or that of Rogue. Even if Serral was on point, no memorable games.
2016 was by far the worst blizzcon ever. Only one good game on king sejong isn't enough to save that since we've seen nothing else than reaper abuse. At least Serral and Stats are delivered good games this blizzcon.
disagree - Blizzcon 2016 had a number of good games (Dark vs Stats, TY vs Nerchio, Showtime vs Elazer, Dark vs Byun) The only games of this years blizzcon worth watching at all were Special vs Classic and Rogue vs Serral G4.
On November 07 2018 05:09 Zeon0 wrote: I wasnt around for Bonjwas in BW and in SC2 we never really had them. At one point can we discuss Serral being one? The guy obliterated everyone for an entire year, how long does he have to continue?
I agree that Serral's year is amazing but bonjwa is a really high bar. He won Blizzcon, 4 WCS, GSL vs the world and got some ro4s. Very few called Maru bonjwa when he won 3 GSLs. Few called INnoVation bonjwa even though he won a GSL, SSL, GSL vs the World and IEM Gyeonggi with a ridiculous 68.8% winrate against Koreans offline (this might be 2nd highest winrate against Koreans offline for a year that I recall). Serral's year is probably more impressive than Dark and Byun's 2016, and a bit more impressive than Rogue's 2017. I would say it's just barely less impressive than INnoVation's 2017. However, I don't think you could say it's just as impressive as Maru in 2018. If Serral does close to as well as he has this year in 2019, then I think many would be more willing to call him bonjwa unless INnoVation and/or Maru also do well in 2019.
If you compare Serral to Maru in achievements (only counting ro4 and beyond)
Serral won - 4 WCS Circuit, Blizzcon, 3rd place WESG, GSL vs the World, ro4 IEM WC
Maru won - 3 GSL, ro4 IEM WC, WESG, ro4 GSL vs the World
We can remove ro4 IEM WC. Also, this is subjective but I would say WESG is comparable to GSL vs the World since the qualifier is pretty hard so it would be fair to just simply compare
4 WCS Circuit, Blizzcon to 3 GSL
I think most people would agree that 3 GSL > 4 WCS Circuit + Blizzcon, even though Serral's achievements are incredible, and perhaps even unbelievable for a foreigner.
Edit: Also, you have to remember that FlaSh in BW was only called bonjwa after he was in every final of 2010 and won 4 out 6 of the Starleagues. He also won WCG 2010 and had like a 75.15% winrate. I'm sorry to say, but I don't think any SC2 player will do anything even close to that ridiculous. Not even Jaedong was called bonjwa and his 2009 year was incredible in its own right.
On November 07 2018 02:50 Locutos wrote: I predict a Serral vs Reynor rivalry next year
Reynor is the most interesting player in SC2 right to me. I'm very excited to see if he can adapt and take a series of Serral. ZvZ is by far Reynor's weakest against top Zergs.
On November 07 2018 07:16 Vincenzo wrote: This Blizzcon was much worse than that of Byun or that of Rogue. Even if Serral was on point, no memorable games.
2016 was by far the worst blizzcon ever. Only one good game on king sejong isn't enough to save that since we've seen nothing else than reaper abuse. At least Serral and Stats are delivered good games this blizzcon.
disagree - Blizzcon 2016 had a number of good games (Dark vs Stats, TY vs Nerchio, Showtime vs Elazer, Dark vs Byun) The only games of this years blizzcon worth watching at all were Special vs Classic and Rogue vs Serral G4.
Blizzcon 2016 had some good game but none of them (except for that King Sejong game) were Buyn games, he had the worst style in SC history, not his fault of course ot was the meta but still it was a shit show.
I'm sorry but I can't agree that 3 GSL are better than 4 WCS and Blizzcon.
As for Bonjwa, it's a title tied to complete domination and back to back tournament wins; were Serral to win HSC, GSL, IEM and WESG next year, he'd deserve to be called as such. A long way, indeed.
He already is the best player of 2018(barely) and the mosg successful foreigner ever seen.
On November 07 2018 07:16 Vincenzo wrote: This Blizzcon was much worse than that of Byun or that of Rogue. Even if Serral was on point, no memorable games.
I would've said that up until we got to Rogue vs TY onward. Then it was just epic (excluding sOs vs Stats bop).
Serral vs Rogue on Lost and Found might just be the game of the year....a ZvZ people.
one thing to take into consideration is balance, it's hard to compare a zerg to a terran, all the top terrans have struggled with TvP this year whilst zerg has cruised in both matchups, this is very relevant to a Maru vs Serral discussion.
Better winrate, more tournaments won, Wins the head-to-head 2-1 (beat him at Katowice qualifiers and GSL vs the world while only losing at WESG because Ravens were OP back then), more handsome. Simply the best RTS gamer of all time - Maru doesn't come close.
Minor tournaments sure.. Katowice qualifiers was online in EU server. GSL vs the world was a best of 1 showmatch. Ravens didn't matter during their WESG best of 3 match. Watch it for yourself:
On November 07 2018 10:05 Xain0n wrote: I'm sorry but I can't agree that 3 GSL are better than 4 WCS and Blizzcon.
As for Bonjwa, it's a title tied to complete domination and back to back tournament wins; were Serral to win HSC, GSL, IEM and WESG next year, he'd deserve to be called as such. A long way, indeed.
He already is the best player of 2018(barely) and the mosg successful foreigner ever seen.
Hmm I do think that 3 GSL's are a greater achievement, its the hardest tournament to win in starcraft.
Let's put it this way - Maru and Serral trade spots for 2018 - what are the chances Maru wins all 4 WCS tournaments? Very very high if you ask me.
The chances Serral wins all 3 GSL... IMO it's quite low, but I'll concede its impossible to truly say considering he has never competed in GSL.
3 GSL are more impressive than 4 WCS, for sure, but when we add BlizzCon to the mix i am not convinced anymore.
Serral wouldn't have won 3 GSL as he was not the best earlier in the year, but he would have been the favourite in GSL 3; in his Blizzcon shape, Serral would have won all three(most likely). Maru has shown to be someway shaky in weekender tournaments so he might have lost to Reynor in Valencia, at least.
In addiction to that, both Maru and Serral played GSL vs the world and BlizzCon and Serral ended up winning those events; current patch may favor zerg but it's not like Dark and Rogue performances skyrocketed.
Maru's and Serral's years are about even but if I had to choose one, i'd say Serral's(366k vs 467k earned, too).
I am very disappointed with Rogue's performance in ZvZ.
Disastrous 2018 for the Koreans. But everything was screaming about that.
1. Europeans and Americans can qualify to GSL - Koreans not allowed to qualify in WCS events, except for Katowice. 2. 8 seeds from each region made the Global Finals less competitive, because, you know, I am not interested in watching Lambo or Has terrible perfeormances, just like other 4 ppl from WCS Circuit failing to go to the next round. 3. And lastly, Kaelaris. Being a host, not even a commentator, making a Serral poster. Fucking retard, hope he never hosts again. So unprofessional of every single person there on stage rooting for Serral to win!
Nevertheless, congrats to Serral. What a monster he is! Sad he didn't meet Maru
The Global Finals weren't less competitive because of the 8 spots reserved to Circuit! Neeb and Showtime deserved a place at Blizzcon and they did well enough. The problem was that Korea's standings were much closer to an actual top 8 power ranking than World's:Reynor, Scarlett and Elazer didn't make it but they are better players than Has, Nerchio(currently) and Heromarine/Lambo.
On November 07 2018 23:47 Xain0n wrote: The Global Finals weren't less competitive because of the 8 spots reserved to Circuit! Neeb and Showtime deserved a place at Blizzcon and they did well enough. The problem was that Korea's standings were much closer to an actual top 8 power ranking than World's:Reynor, Scarlett and Elazer didn't make it but they are better players than Has, Nerchio(currently) and Heromarine/Lambo.
They performed worse this year so they aren't better (with the possible exception of Reynor because he missed 2 WCS events)
On November 07 2018 23:47 Xain0n wrote: The Global Finals weren't less competitive because of the 8 spots reserved to Circuit! Neeb and Showtime deserved a place at Blizzcon and they did well enough. The problem was that Korea's standings were much closer to an actual top 8 power ranking than World's:Reynor, Scarlett and Elazer didn't make it but they are better players than Has, Nerchio(currently) and Heromarine/Lambo.
Agreed. I couldnt have changed a single player from the Korean top 8 and make their roster stronger. Like, who would you want there more? Solar? no chance. Gumiho? maybe, but then who would have you dropped?
As for foreigners, definitely Reynor, Scarlett and Elazer over Has, Nerchio and Heromarine. I dont hate Heromarine, he s a good and consistent player, but not the kind who punches up. He s the kind who reliably beats everyone below him, preforms well against ppl with similar skill and loses 100% against more accomplished players. Compared to that, Scarlett would have been a wildcard, maybe she wins the group, maybe she goes 0-4. And we can all but state it for certain that Reynor would have qualified had he participated in all 4 events. Even with only 2 events he almost made it, and ultimately was stopped by Serral in a 4-3 series. Has would have never qualified without the challenger points, the stars aligned for that 2nd place finish, so ha made it, earned it, but everyone knew this would happen in Anaheim.
Lambo is actually legit good, i wouldnt have change him out, ofcourse he looked kinda bad vs the two top terrans, nobody was really shocked there. But he s smart and fast, I would have kept him in my top8.
On November 08 2018 00:19 EEk1TwEEk wrote: Whatever
It's still unprofessional for a host/commentator to root for any player
no it's not
Definitely debatable but generally speaking it is. For this reason you see in things like college game day etc they dont have the guys calling the games make picks before hand etc..however in this case being such a monumental scene shifting event I think it would be nuts to think the foreign casters wouldnt be pulling for history to be made by a foreigner..having said that its a bit in poor taste but can totally understand it happening in this context.
Elazer kind of underperformed, he is stronger than the players I listed; it's fair that he didn't make it to BlizzCon, but ideally he should have.
Scarlett did very well in GSL and won IEM Pyeonchang, she probably wasn't as focused on Circuit events; if she only could add her WCS Korea points, she would have been at BlizzCon.
Reynor almost made it being able to play only two events, i don't see how he couldn't deserve a BlizzCon spot.
Yeah if it weren't for Serral, Reynor and Scarlett would have almost certainly made Blizzcon with their skills, imo. I feel like Elazer was pretty unlucky this year and probably should have made it to Blizzcon too.
On November 08 2018 01:25 Xain0n wrote: I share Rion's opinions!
Elazer kind of underperformed, he is stronger than the players I listed; it's fair that he didn't make it to BlizzCon, but ideally he should have.
Scarlett did very well in GSL and won IEM Pyeonchang, she probably wasn't as focused on Circuit events; if she only could add her WCS Korea points, she would have been at BlizzCon.
Reynor almost made it being able to play only two events, i don't see how he couldn't deserve a BlizzCon spot.
Okay you have a point with Scarlett but I don't see why you think Elazer is stronger than Has/HM/Nerchio. His results weren't very good. Just because of his reputation? Then I could also say Innovation is better than TY because he's theoretically capable of performing at a higher skill level even though it didn't show in his results.
On November 08 2018 01:25 Xain0n wrote: I share Rion's opinions!
Elazer kind of underperformed, he is stronger than the players I listed; it's fair that he didn't make it to BlizzCon, but ideally he should have.
Scarlett did very well in GSL and won IEM Pyeonchang, she probably wasn't as focused on Circuit events; if she only could add her WCS Korea points, she would have been at BlizzCon.
Reynor almost made it being able to play only two events, i don't see how he couldn't deserve a BlizzCon spot.
Okay you have a point with Scarlett but I don't see why you think Elazer is stronger than Has/HM/Nerchio. His results weren't very good. Just because of his reputation? Then I could also say Innovation is better than TY because he's theoretically capable of performing at a higher skill level even though it didn't show in his results.
I dont think anyone is arguing that Elazer should have had the spot. What I, and some other people, are saying that if we were given the task to invite the 8 most skilled foreigners, we would have picked 3-4 different people than the ones who qualified. As u point out with Reynor and Scarlett a case can be made they would have made in "on their own" if the circumstances were different, not with Elazer. I still would have picked him for the "dreamteam". Why do I say that? Quality of play for one. I for one watch the game, especially the zerg games to see how well they re playing. Elazer played very well this year. He won some tournaments and did well in others, but not quite well enough in WCS. None of his eliminations from WCS were that shocking though, he went out every single time vs the top rep of each race, Serral, Special and Neeb respectively. Bracket draw does impact WCS points, and it s fine, part of the process, Elazer just drawn less well this year, as he could have, his play still looked really solid. Not dominant, but really solid. Better than nerchio`s i would say, as least as good as Lambo`s, probably better.
tbh i think that Maru or Serral would have never won 2 GSL in 2015 for exemple. the game is far less competitive that it was. This is why INnoVation is impressive for having won at least one major tournament from 2013 to 2017. Korean skill has faltered in 2018. In 2012 to 2015 they were so many top korean, having all these finals from soO was something really impressive. But in 2018 only Maru and stats were top level all the year. TY, Classic and Rogue had up and downs, Zest is good one day in 10, same for sOs... INnovation didn't achieve anything this year etc. The foreigner will caught because korean are falling.
On November 08 2018 04:27 Mun_Su wrote: tbh i think that Maru or Serral would have never won 2 GSL in 2015 for exemple. the game is far less competitive that it was. This is why INnoVation is impressive for having won at least one major tournament from 2013 to 2017. Korean skill has faltered in 2018. In 2012 to 2015 they were so many top korean, having all these finals from soO was something really impressive. But in 2018 only Maru and stats were top level all the year. TY, Classic and Rogue had up and downs, Zest is good one day in 10, same for sOs... INnovation didn't achieve anything this year etc. The foreigner will caught because korean are falling.
True, back in sc2's prime days it was a blessing if you could see the top players streaming or playing any other tournament outside of the offline korean ones, the minor tournaments were reserved for a vast amount of mid to low tier players, but nowadays you open a random stream and you will get to see Dark vs Ty level matches on repeat and it lost it's charm, it's like the korean scene is comprised of 16 players and their alt accounts.
On November 07 2018 10:05 Xain0n wrote: I'm sorry but I can't agree that 3 GSL are better than 4 WCS and Blizzcon.
As for Bonjwa, it's a title tied to complete domination and back to back tournament wins; were Serral to win HSC, GSL, IEM and WESG next year, he'd deserve to be called as such. A long way, indeed.
He already is the best player of 2018(barely) and the mosg successful foreigner ever seen.
Hmm I do think that 3 GSL's are a greater achievement, its the hardest tournament to win in starcraft.
Let's put it this way - Maru and Serral trade spots for 2018 - what are the chances Maru wins all 4 WCS tournaments? Very very high if you ask me.
The chances Serral wins all 3 GSL... IMO it's quite low, but I'll concede its impossible to truly say considering he has never competed in GSL.
Maru also won WESG, which is pretty much on par with blizzcon, how are we only talking about his 3 GSLs?
On November 07 2018 10:05 Xain0n wrote: I'm sorry but I can't agree that 3 GSL are better than 4 WCS and Blizzcon.
As for Bonjwa, it's a title tied to complete domination and back to back tournament wins; were Serral to win HSC, GSL, IEM and WESG next year, he'd deserve to be called as such. A long way, indeed.
He already is the best player of 2018(barely) and the mosg successful foreigner ever seen.
Hmm I do think that 3 GSL's are a greater achievement, its the hardest tournament to win in starcraft.
Let's put it this way - Maru and Serral trade spots for 2018 - what are the chances Maru wins all 4 WCS tournaments? Very very high if you ask me.
The chances Serral wins all 3 GSL... IMO it's quite low, but I'll concede its impossible to truly say considering he has never competed in GSL.
Maru also won WESG, which is pretty much on par with blizzcon, how are we only talking about his 3 GSLs?
tbf, it was me who made that comparison (that GSL vs the World is comparable to WESG). If you look at it that way then basically you can remove the two tournaments from the equation and just compare 3 GSL to Blizzcon + 4 WCS Circuit. But now that I think of it a bit more, I would say winning WESG is closer to winning IEM WC than GSL vs the World in terms of prestige since it is a much larger tournament (in terms of player pool and prize pool) and its format is more similar to IEM WC. That means WESG is probably more prestigious than GSL vs the World and probably close to as prestigious as winning IEM WC.
Edit: BTW first prize in WESG is 200k and Blizzcon is 280k so it's actually only 80k difference.
Hm, i thought it was 150k but that is IEM WC's prize in fact, my bad.
Personally, i previously compared 3 GSL to 4 WCS+GSL vs the World and BlizzCon to WESG; it seems me more appropriate, to me.
If it comes down to numbers, Serral is ahead in 2018:more earnings, better win percentage and so on.
The exact prestige given to GSL cannot actually be exactly agreed upon; top Koreans are still better on average than top foreigners but i don't think this makes up for Maru not winning both Super Tournaments, when comparing him to Serral steamrolling the Circuit and winning GSL vs the World.
Had to avoid youtube and teamliquid for the past few days because I couldn't find the time to watch the whole tournament. But it sure payed off, getting the watch everything in one go.
Amazing games and great story line, congrats Serral!
It was great to see Stats improving each game to combat the swarmhosts to make sure at least Serral didn't sweep the whole thing. Stat's way to the finals seemed comparatively easy on paper: Has, Showtime, Special, sOs. But Special also played well and I can't wait to see more of him.
On November 08 2018 22:23 Sphairos wrote: Guys, in the thread devoted to Serral's majestic victory you're obsessed with Maru's inferiority/superiority. Just stop, c'mon you.
The bottom line is : Serral is great and Maru is great. The future will tell.
Both Maru and Serral are great players that dominated this year. But it's Serral who won Global Finals, so he is our reigning world champion which means, on this moment, he os the best player on the world now. That's the logic you should all follow.
On November 08 2018 22:23 Sphairos wrote: Guys, in the thread devoted to Serral's majestic victory you're obsessed with Maru's inferiority/superiority. Just stop, c'mon you.
The bottom line is : Serral is great and Maru is great. The future will tell.
plz dont - let me enjoy more terran salt.
I think it’s more Anti-foreigner salt than Terran Lol.
Ok guys, just gonna straight up say it, Serral is better than Maru IMO. I mean. Let's not forget that GCS is very Protoss heavy, with Zerg being the least common. I am pretty sure that ZvP is Serral's best matchup and he has said it himself when being interviewed before a game against a high-level Protoss. (I also researched it and he has a 75% win rate by matchup in ZvP)
I will admit that Maru is a great player, but no one can match Serral's adaptability in a game. In 2018, I am pretty sure that almost half of Serral's matches in WCS tournaments were won in a 3-0 fashion. The only WCS tournament this year that Serral did not smack anyone down excessively in was Montreal, but he was against Scarlett, Lambo and Reynor for the top 8, 4 and grand final respectively and they are all great players.
Sure, GCS has better players on average, but once you get to the top 16 of GCS or WCS the players are usually all incredibly well matched. Either way, I personally think Serral is a better player just because I myself am a zerg player and generally, Zerg find it hard to play anything other than a standard macro usually. Serral is by far the most efficient starcraft II player currently and I believe that economy is usually the best way to tell between players. Someone who can eco better will usually win assuming it is a macro game, whoever uses their units better will win most engagements, whoever can adapt the best will usually suffer the least losses. Serral does all three of those things the best.
Honestly, though, I think there is one player who is gonna top Serral and Maru in a year or two. That is Reynor. I mean seriously, he lost 3-4 to Serral, who is arguably the best player of 2018 in a ZvZ, which Serral plays the most often out of any matchup (he has played ~170 ZvZ, ~110 ZvT and ~80 ZvP). Top 8 in GCS at the age of 14, got top 8 in a WCS in Valencia this year but got smacked down by Serral and then loses by a game in the very next WCS of that year.
Was finally able to watch the semi-finals and finals last night. Rogue vs. Serral was great and the finals did not disappoint either. Congratulations to Serral for his historic achievement!
Hope we will see a bit more competition in WCS Circuit in 2019. This year, Serral was very dominant.
EPT
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Olli/Serral_wins_blizzcon.jpg)
Serral, coming into the tournament as one of two favorites, fully delivered on his potential as he overcame previous champion 
Stats, on the final day of WCS 2018. 
2018 WCS Global Finals![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Olli/StatsvsOs.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Olli/SerralvRogue.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Olli/SerralvStats.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Olli/Serral_wins_blizzcon_2.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/VnMusre.jpg)
It was a small weekend for all esports fans (even those friends who far away from sc2 was watching and cheering). Please, Jona, don't stop!
