EPTMaru defeats TY and wins 3rd consecutive Code S title - Pa…
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Veluvian
Bulgaria256 Posts
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RandomOnlyTheHumanLf
58 Posts
whoa there 1 post; it's only natural to compare the two winningest players in a given year... People probably want to compare cuz it's Serral the only foreign hope in 2018, but comparing Major league and Minor league isn't natural for veterans... | ||
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
On September 17 2018 17:57 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote: People probably want to compare cuz it's Serral the only foreign hope in 2018, but comparing Major league and Minor league isn't natural for veterans... But Reynor almost beat Maru in RO16, and Serral beat Reynor in WCS...  P.S. I'm just messing around at this point, I think Maru is probably better than Serral, but both have dominated their respective circuits this year in ways in that are historically unparalleled. MVP may have been better in his prime, but even he didn't hat trick the GSL. | ||
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
On September 17 2018 22:54 renaissanceMAN wrote: But Reynor almost beat Maru in RO16, and Serral beat Reynor in WCS... P.S. I'm just messing around at this point, I think Maru is probably better than Serral, but both have dominated their respective circuits this year in ways in that are historically unparalleled. MVP may have been better in his prime, but even he didn't hat trick the GSL. Honestly Serral is a sick player no denying that..i think the problem that most people (including myself) have with the whining about why no Serral news etc is that you cant put what Maru did this year even in the same conversation as what Serral is doing. Weve seen plenty of players dominate in WCS NA EU in history. It is legitimately a minor league relative to code S. You have multiple players not even qualifying for code S that are contenders to win EU or NA. Winning 3 code S in a row is an absolutely insane historical achievement. Its never happened in SC2.. 2 only happened one time and the reason for that is the competition is the top of the top players in the world. Again not hating on Serral at all he will be competive at blizzcon but people need to accept that its not a comparable achievement. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 17 2018 22:54 renaissanceMAN wrote: But Reynor almost beat Maru in RO16, and Serral beat Reynor in WCS... Everyone talks about how Reynor almost beat Maru but not about Leenock, Patience, or Zanster that did the same. | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
On September 17 2018 10:58 alestormsabaton1994 wrote: People comparing Serral to Maru are idiots, or at least, very new to the scene. They dont realize the difference between Korea and the rest of the world. There is literally no way that Serral could have won 3 gsl in a row, but on the other hand, I would bet a huge amount of money that Maru would have won every WCS he played in. Thats why I hate region lock, not only did it kill my favorite competition (ProLeague), but it made people forget how big the gap is between koreans and foreigners. The people that think Serral is at the same level as Maru are probably the one who also think that NA will do well in worlds (in LoL). well said. people forget that naniwa won MLG dallas without dropping a single map until the finals, before the korean invasion. he was very dominant. there were always some foreigners who were head and shoulders above the other foreigners. unlike serral though, naniwa continued to prove himself against koreans and showed that he belonged. serral's sample size is too small due to region lock. serral is definitely good, but winning 3 GSLs in a row good? he needs to compete in a GSL first edit: another sad factor to consider is that the region lock killed the korean scene. so rather than elevating foreign level of play to match koreans, it instead lowered overall level of korean play by killing any chance for new players to break in by destroying all the teamhouses. theres not really any new players coming in now - its all the same faces in the GSL now and when they retire for military its over | ||
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Echoic_
12 Posts
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NoobSkills
United States1601 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4958 Posts
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Kitai
United States878 Posts
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alestormsabaton1994
12 Posts
On September 17 2018 15:42 Charoisaur wrote: I would argue that it did.Region lock has caused many bad things but it really had no effect on the end of Proleague. Region lock didnt only kicked out Koreans from participating to WCS AMerica and Europe, but more importantly, it kicked them from participating to ALL non-korean tournamnents. And at the time, there was a lot of other tournaments, like a bunch of IEMs, Dream Hacks etc... That affected heavily the viability of becoming a korean progamer for every korean that did not have a good shot at winning GSL, because there was simply no way they could earn money. Which led to a lot of retirements, and a huge drop in popularity of sc2 in Korea. No popularity= no sponsor for ProLeague | ||
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alestormsabaton1994
12 Posts
On September 18 2018 01:02 fishjie wrote: Ill be honest, I was never a fan of foreigners, simply because I wanted to see the best, and the people who work the hardest be rewarded (and lets face it, Koreans work way harder than any other country not only in video games, my wife is korean and she told me a lot of stories about SK). And even though I hated Naniwa because of who he is, that I didnt like Stephano nor Neeb, I gotta give it to them, they had the balls to compete with the best, and beat them on multiple occasions.well said. people forget that naniwa won MLG dallas without dropping a single map until the finals, before the korean invasion. he was very dominant. there were always some foreigners who were head and shoulders above the other foreigners. unlike serral though, naniwa continued to prove himself against koreans and showed that he belonged. serral's sample size is too small due to region lock. serral is definitely good, but winning 3 GSLs in a row good? he needs to compete in a GSL first edit: another sad factor to consider is that the region lock killed the korean scene. so rather than elevating foreign level of play to match koreans, it instead lowered overall level of korean play by killing any chance for new players to break in by destroying all the teamhouses. theres not really any new players coming in now - its all the same faces in the GSL now and when they retire for military its over Which is why I dont respect Serral. Yes he is great, but he prefers making EZ money in a minor league, than trying to be the best, and be a part of sc2 history. Im not saying that unlike Serral, I wouldnt choose money over fame, because thats a lot of money, but i cant simply respect someone whos too afraid to face the best of the best. | ||
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Jerom
Netherlands588 Posts
On September 18 2018 00:21 DomeGetta wrote: Honestly Serral is a sick player no denying that..i think the problem that most people (including myself) have with the whining about why no Serral news etc is that you cant put what Maru did this year even in the same conversation as what Serral is doing. Weve seen plenty of players dominate in WCS NA EU in history. It is legitimately a minor league relative to code S. You have multiple players not even qualifying for code S that are contenders to win EU or NA. Winning 3 code S in a row is an absolutely insane historical achievement. Its never happened in SC2.. 2 only happened one time and the reason for that is the competition is the top of the top players in the world. Again not hating on Serral at all he will be competive at blizzcon but people need to accept that its not a comparable achievement. This so much. GSL code S is a tournament were even the worse players would have a shot at making a good run in a foreign tournament. To win a code S you do not only have to be great, but also beat many others that are great. To win a WCS you have to maybe beat a few good opponents. The difference is really big. For example, to get out of group stages in the RO16 maru needed to best Neeb and Reynor to 'only' reach RO8. Those two are basically the very best of the best in WCS. In other words, winning a WCS is comparable to reaching the ~RO8 in GSL. Its mot an exact comparison but it really does show that GSL is so much harder. Winning all 3 GSLs is insane and nobody has ever gotten close to that. Winning all 4 WCS tournaments is really huge too, but nowhere close to winning 3 GSLs. | ||
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CaptainBurnTurn
United States80 Posts
On September 18 2018 22:27 Jerom wrote: This so much. GSL code S is a tournament were even the worse players would have a shot at making a good run in a foreign tournament. To win a code S you do not only have to be great, but also beat many others that are great. To win a WCS you have to maybe beat a few good opponents. The difference is really big. For example, to get out of group stages in the RO16 maru needed to best Neeb and Reynor to 'only' reach RO8. Those two are basically the very best of the best in WCS. In other words, winning a WCS is comparable to reaching the ~RO8 in GSL. Its mot an exact comparison but it really does show that GSL is so much harder. Winning all 3 GSLs is insane and nobody has ever gotten close to that. Winning all 4 WCS tournaments is really huge too, but nowhere close to winning 3 GSLs. I totally and completely agree with this, I think that there should be a sort of region lock on circuit as well. If they could do like three ladders, Circuit, Korea, and Global, where the foreigners can only participate in Circuit, Koreans in Korea, and Everyone in Global (obviously) But have six come out of circuit,six out of Korea, and four out of Global. I think the global events should be all of the IEM events, WESG, GSL vs. the World, and the Super Tournaments maybe? | ||
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Sakat
Croatia1599 Posts
On September 18 2018 23:19 CaptainBurnTurn wrote: I totally and completely agree with this, I think that there should be a sort of region lock on circuit as well. If they could do like three ladders, Circuit, Korea, and Global, where the foreigners can only participate in Circuit, Koreans in Korea, and Everyone in Global (obviously) But have six come out of circuit,six out of Korea, and four out of Global. I think the global events should be all of the IEM events, WESG, GSL vs. the World, and the Super Tournaments maybe? No. Make it 4 global tournaments like IEM, WESG, and two GSL vs World type tournaments, one in Korea and one in one of the Circuit stops like Jonkoping or smh. And the winners get seeds to blizzcon like now. Keep super tournament for Korea | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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ValM
India408 Posts
On September 19 2018 00:13 travis wrote: people saying what Serral can or can't do are absolutely ridiculous So Serral takes down code S his first time and gets 3 code titles consecutively as well? I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. Genuinely curious... | ||
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swissman777
1106 Posts
On September 16 2018 08:16 Nakajin wrote: Maru also underperform when he played in foreing tournament, outside of tournament in the relatively near China I don't think he ever got to a final of a foreing tournament. Of course JAGW has never been keen to send their player abroard, but he still entered in quite a few over the years and underperformed quite a bit, lets wait and see but it could be harder outside of the studio environnement where he shine. Pretty sure maru got to finals at that one iem tournament and lost to life. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 19 2018 00:13 travis wrote: people saying what Serral can or can't do are absolutely ridiculous Is it that ridiculous to say he wouldn't win 3 Code S in a row? The same is/was said of every player before Maru this year. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
it is ridiculous for someone to say they know he can't. which is what people are doing when they use it as the reason that maru is > serral. they are taking a hypothetical - something that hasn't actually happened, and using it to support their argument. not to mention, even at the maru level, there is certainly a lot of luck involved in winning 3 GSLs in a row. basically it's not really fair to call either one better than the other until they start losing (quick note - the only one to lose in a tournament that the other one was in, since wesg, is maru). well, at least I think that's true. feel free to correct me on that if it's wrong | ||
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