Maru made StarCraft II history in Seoul's FreecUP studio, defeating TY 4-3 to become the first player to ever win three consecutive GSL Code S championships. The previous record-setter for consecutive Code S titles had been Nestea, who won back-to-back tournaments in 2011.
TY gave Maru one of his toughest challenges in a year where the Jin Air Terran had dominated the competition and played only a handful of close matches. Maru had been wary of TY during the Ro16 group nominations, and TY showed us exactly why by deflecting Maru's signature proxy-building rushes and jumping ahead to a 2-0 lead. This did not dissuade Maru from continuing to proxy buildings in the finals, but there were no easy wins on the table for Maru as TY continued to defend and forced him into longer games.
However, Maru's 2018 dominance was built on his prowess in every stage of the game (though proxies became more of a staple build as the year progressed) and he proved it by fighting his way back into the series. Game four on Lost and Found saw Maru bring all of his late-game might to bear, winning a split-map battle that took to the skies.
The series came down to a final set on Atlas, where TY took a commanding economic lead after holding off Maru's early Reaper-Cyclone aggression and follow-up Banshee harassment. Maru responded by making a risky play, rallying a rag-tag army of Marines, Tanks, and Banshees for an attack into the heart of TY's territory. The desperation attack ended up being a decisive one, with Maru breaking through TY's defenses just before they could solidify. At the end of a battle that saw a Tank, Banshee, an SCV, and two Marines survive for Maru, TY surrendered the final GG and Code S title to Maru.
Maru's third Code S championship could very well be the defining moment in an improbable late-career surge. After debuting as a 13-year-old prodigy in 2010, Maru won his first title in 2013 by claiming StarCraft's hallowed OnGameNet Starleague championship. Maru continued to be one of StarCraft's top Terran stars afterward, but was overshadowed by players such as ByuN, INnoVation, and even TY due to his lack of championships (only a single SSL title followed in 2015). 2018—year seven and eight in Maru's career—saw him make the leap to an entirely new level, and his third Code S title has already affirmed his greatest-of-all-time status to some.
Only the WCS Global Finals at BlizzCon remains in 2018 as a prize worthy of Maru's attention, and he will enter as Korea's #1 seed. When asked about BlizzCon in a post-match interview, Maru shed some of his usual humility. "I've always thought that I could win BlizzCon if I keep working as hard as I am now." he said. When asked about the prospect of a dream-match against WCS Circuit grand slam winner Serral, Maru replied "I think Rogue is better. If I practice with him, I think I'll win easily."
I hope TY could snatch the victory but Maru is too good. The stage is set for Blizzcon, let's hope Maru does good their even if foreign tournament hasen't been the stage he shine's the most in the past.
On September 15 2018 21:51 Poopi wrote: It’s incredible. Winning a GSL is a huge achievement. Winning two in a row is almost unprecedented. Winning every GSL of the year? There is no word.
On September 15 2018 21:41 Mun_Su wrote: so GO2018 or GOAT ?
GO2018. GOAT is still Inno.
You mean Life?
You mean Mvp?
On September 15 2018 22:45 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: lol took TL writers 1 hour to produce Maru's GSL win news. Its been 6 days since Serral's WCS win and still no news post. No bias whatsoever.
On September 15 2018 22:45 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: lol took TL writers 1 hour to produce Maru's GSL win news. Its been 6 days since Serral's WCS win and still no news post. No bias whatsoever.
Its cos this isn't noob friendly candy land.
Mari might actually be right up there with the king of wings; you can't argue that the meta now is much more developed then when MVP was crushing dreams. Not trying to deminish MVP's accomplishments in any way, he's still my all time fave player.
Maru is literaly, the best player of all time. Considering not only he dominated this year, but his overall achievements like OSL. We just so happen to have serral in the "foreign" scene, and that he also won the GSL the world. But watching the games one by one, the level of play, multitask, micro and in game decisions by maru are just insane compared to any other player.
On September 15 2018 22:45 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: lol took TL writers 1 hour to produce Maru's GSL win news. Its been 6 days since Serral's WCS win and still no news post. No bias whatsoever.
On September 15 2018 23:46 Dave4 wrote: Gotta say Maru looked a lot more vulnerable than Serral did.
I guess we wait for BlizzCon for a final answer but as it stands, Serral has the H2H advantage I guess.
Funny you say that considering serral was one map away from losing every single playoff match in ro8 onwards Both players won their respective tournament though and that's what matters in the end.
TY gave Maru a good run for his money and on another day he might have won, maru just a little bit better when it matters. Three code s titles in a row is insane no matter how you wanna look at it tbh, history was made, you cannot reallistically get more dominant than that. Blizzcon next to persuade the last doubters of the new goat! (also funny how gsl/afreeca used the b word in the video content).
On September 15 2018 22:45 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: lol took TL writers 1 hour to produce Maru's GSL win news. Its been 6 days since Serral's WCS win and still no news post. No bias whatsoever.
Well everyone totally saw it coming so it was not really news.
On September 15 2018 22:08 ArtyK wrote: The perfect setup for Serral to crush Maru's hopes and dreams
This. GO Serral GO !!!!!
why so hyped? ofc serral will win blizzcon sooner or later, korean quality of play is nowhere near to what it was before the fall of their scene, gsl final was a sloppy mess.
Maru overcome his nemesis, TY and his most likely shaky matchup, TvT Serral did the same and overcome his ZvZ weakness
both are monsters... greatest miracle in esport is if both of them could meet in blizzcon final.. what might happened is.. one of them jet lagged and lost somehow...
Life > Mvp all day all night. Life was playing during the highest skill era. SC2 was young, and without kespa players when Mvp was winning. Mvp was lucky there were million of GSL's in 2011, when he was at his prime. [/QUOTE]
I WATCHED IT THIS MORNING WITHOUT LOOKING AT SPOILERS AND THIS WAS PROBABLY ONE OF THE BEST GSL FINALS, BETTER THAN LEENOCK VS JJAKJI AND MVP VS SQUIRTLE WOW HOLY SHIT
WENT TO 7 GAMES WITH MARU PROXYING ALMOST EVERY GAME AND THEN IN FINAL GAME PULLING SCVS AND GOING BALLS TO THE WALL FOR A KNOCKOUT BLOW
On September 15 2018 22:45 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: lol took TL writers 1 hour to produce Maru's GSL win news. Its been 6 days since Serral's WCS win and still no news post. No bias whatsoever.
"Bias" towards the tournament that actually matters. How shocking!
Do you also accuse your paper news of bias when they report on Chamipons League results and not the backyard friendly game in your local retirement home?
As usual, some people have to come in and mention Serral in every thread about Maru... so annoying. Some quick facts for the rest of this thread (no one shall ever need to state them again in this thread, but I think someone has to in each thread the trolls appear):
1) Serral is 0-3 vs Maru in official matches. They played at WESG semi-finals and Maru won without any game being even slightly close.
2) Serral barely won WCS Montreal against players that couldn't even qualify for GSL, or in Reynor's case, did not perform very well.
3) Maru has won 3 GSL in a row against the best competition in the world... the only possible top 20 player that doesnt play in GSL is Serral.
4) GSL vs the World is a real tournament, but it's one that Koreans traditionally do not prepare that much for and going into it, Serral was not considered a threat to Koreans at ALL. Thus Koreans did not prepare for Serral and as testified by Artosis himself, they were shocked when they saw Serral playing well in the ro8.
5) Gsl vs. the World is NOT a GSL. When you say "X has won a GSL" you mean Code S - not any tournament with GSL in the title!
So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
Oh, and btw, apparently Jjakji went to the finals to cheer for TY! I'm pretty sure he went to the army, so it's nice that he was allowed to go support his friend.
Life > Mvp all day all night. Life was playing during the highest skill era. SC2 was young, and without kespa players when Mvp was winning. Mvp was lucky there were million of GSL's in 2011, when he was at his prime.
Life > Mvp all day all night. Life was playing during the highest skill era. SC2 was young, and without kespa players when Mvp was winning. Mvp was lucky there were million of GSL's in 2011, when he was at his prime.
Life also cheated.
He didn't. But he was good enough to drop some maps on purpose and still win the boX.
On September 15 2018 22:45 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: lol took TL writers 1 hour to produce Maru's GSL win news. Its been 6 days since Serral's WCS win and still no news post. No bias whatsoever.
What holds you back to write one and send it to them? What holds you back to join TL writers and write about WCS if they cosider GSL to be the better and more serious league?
Critizing is easy, show them how to do it properly!
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: As usual, some people have to come in and mention Serral in every thread about Maru... so annoying. Some quick facts for the rest of this thread (no one shall ever need to state them again in this thread, but I think someone has to in each thread the trolls appear):
I mean, even the GSL presenter asked Maru about Serral in the winner's interview.
On September 15 2018 22:45 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: lol took TL writers 1 hour to produce Maru's GSL win news. Its been 6 days since Serral's WCS win and still no news post. No bias whatsoever.
You're not wrong, It's still a miracle to me there was no news about WCS being over.
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: As usual, some people have to come in and mention Serral in every thread about Maru... so annoying. Some quick facts for the rest of this thread (no one shall ever need to state them again in this thread, but I think someone has to in each thread the trolls appear):
1) Serral is 0-3 vs Maru in official matches. They played at WESG semi-finals and Maru won without any game being even slightly close.
2) Serral barely won WCS Montreal against players that couldn't even qualify for GSL, or in Reynor's case, did not perform very well.
3) Maru has won 3 GSL in a row against the best competition in the world... the only possible top 20 player that doesnt play in GSL is Serral.
4) GSL vs the World is a real tournament, but it's one that Koreans traditionally do not prepare that much for and going into it, Serral was not considered a threat to Koreans at ALL. Thus Koreans did not prepare for Serral and as testified by Artosis himself, they were shocked when they saw Serral playing well in the ro8.
5) Gsl vs. the World is NOT a GSL. When you say "X has won a GSL" you mean Code S - not any tournament with GSL in the title!
So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
This again lol. 1) They are 3-3. Also Maru is the one who didn't make the finals if GSL v World for them to have met there, so U can't really use this argument
2) Serral has been destroying every tournament - 4 WCS in a row, plus a GSL.
3) yes Maru has done very well but as some have noted, it is in the post-teamhouse era while he is in the only remaining teamhouse. He said himself he couldn't do it without bunny and cure in the interview.
Also how do you say Neeb isn't top 20 if he got to semis, or reynor to ro16? You're arguments are internally inconsistent.
4) Serral prepared no more than the Koreans did. It's not like he prepared for every Korean he would face. All you're saying is that it was a fair fight.
5) GSL v World is actually harder in some regards as it requires a lot more stamina in a short period, and you don't have the luxury of spending a week with your team mates pretending to be your opponent (note only Jin Air can do this as mentioned above)
Come on guy, Maru only -just- beat TY here, you can pretend all you want but it's basically neck and neck between Serral and Maru, if not Serral favoured for the reasons outlined above.
It was a wondeful match. Both TY and Maru looked marvelous. In all honesty, I'm as happy for Maru as I am sad for TY. We're blessed to have those two Terrans to BlizzCon anyway.
Two questions are in my mind since the finals :
1/ What if Life did not match-fix? Boy oh boy Maru vs him could have been the best rivalry ever.
2/ Will a Serral vs. Maru finals at BlizzCon, if it ever happens, be as good as this wonderful clash between the best Terrans in the world right now?
2) Serral has been destroying every tournament - 4 WCS in a row, plus a GSL.
It wasn't a GSL Code S.
Come on guy, Maru only -just- beat TY here, you can pretend all you want but it's basically neck and neck between Serral and Maru, if not Serral favoured for the reasons outlined above.
Life > Mvp all day all night. Life was playing during the highest skill era. SC2 was young, and without kespa players when Mvp was winning. Mvp was lucky there were million of GSL's in 2011, when he was at his prime.
[/QUOTE] Life was a patchzerg while Mvp fought through injury. One is a legend of sc2 while the other is a failure
On September 16 2018 01:24 Serimek wrote: It was a wondeful match. Both TY and Maru looked marvelous. In all honesty, I'm as happy for Maru as I am sad for TY. We're blessed to have those two Terrans to BlizzCon anyway.
Two questions are in my mind since the finals :
1/ What if Life did not match-fix? Boy oh boy Maru vs him could have been the best rivalry ever.
2/ Will a Serral vs. Maru finals at BlizzCon, if it ever happens, be as good as this wonderful clash between the best Terrans in the world right now?
1) is hard to say because Life was in one of the closed teamhouse, so likely that having training time reduced by needing to cook meals etc. Plus not having teammates to prepare with would have made it very difficult for him going up against Maru plus entourage.
2) I think the sheer hype built up for a BlizzCon standoff would make it crazy regardless of the outcome. It would be interesting to see how Maru goes in a regular environment like that but should be close I think. That said it was a very interesting TvT to watch!
Dave4 is a troll - I agree with Charoisaur, just ignore him and move on. I however, am not a troll and have only stated facts in this thread and a congratulations for Maru. If you disagree with any of the 5 points I made in my earlier post then you're in a tiny minority of Serral fangirls.
On September 16 2018 01:41 BigRedDog wrote: Hard to compare between Life and Maru...given that Maru didn't really peak until after 2015.
early 2015 was definitely a decent peak for Maru. He was one game away from besting Life in IEM Taipei and then won SSL a month later (Life died to Dream in the semi in the same tournament). That was his best pair of consecutive results until 2018.
Of course we can't compare Life and Maru in 2018. It's what could've been.
On September 16 2018 01:41 Rodya wrote: Dave4 is a troll - I agree with Charoisaur, just ignore him and move on. I however, am not a troll and have only stated facts in this thread and a congratulations for Maru. If you disagree with any of the 5 points I made in my earlier post then you're in a tiny minority of Serral fangirls.
Just because someone disagrees with you and backs it up with credible arguments doesnt make them a troll.
I think I'm being baited now but you are very clearly Korean competition biased which is fine but just be honest about it.
The fact is, since Kespa died, the Korea>everything else mantra simply doesn't hold muster anymore, as was evidenced clearly by Neeb last year and Serral this year.
Also I am not even much of a Serral fan - I much prefer Reynors style of play. I just think it's crazy that people continue to disregard his unprecedented achievements this year. Statistically, winning this many tournaments in a game as varied as SC2 is breathtaking. No matter what comes his way he seems to win.
Also I have congratulated Maru who is doing the unprecedented at the moment as well - I just also acknowledge that he also has a big upper hand over others from previous eras.
Maru arrives at the GSL with a wheelbarrow. he needs that to carry his testicles.
one of the best BO7 SC2 series i've ever seen.
congratz to Maru and TY for the great series. thanks to Blizzard, the SC2 design team and that italian guy who talks with his hands for making a great game that facilitates all this amazing RTS game play.
Maybe not GOAT but definitely the most dominant peak. Same with Serral for foreigners. It's a good time for SC2, the game in the past was too random for anyone to exhibit this level of dominance.
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: As usual, some people have to come in and mention Serral in every thread about Maru... so annoying. Some quick facts for the rest of this thread (no one shall ever need to state them again in this thread, but I think someone has to in each thread the trolls appear):
1) Serral is 0-3 vs Maru in official matches. They played at WESG semi-finals and Maru won without any game being even slightly close.
2) Serral barely won WCS Montreal against players that couldn't even qualify for GSL, or in Reynor's case, did not perform very well.
3) Maru has won 3 GSL in a row against the best competition in the world... the only possible top 20 player that doesnt play in GSL is Serral.
4) GSL vs the World is a real tournament, but it's one that Koreans traditionally do not prepare that much for and going into it, Serral was not considered a threat to Koreans at ALL. Thus Koreans did not prepare for Serral and as testified by Artosis himself, they were shocked when they saw Serral playing well in the ro8.
5) Gsl vs. the World is NOT a GSL. When you say "X has won a GSL" you mean Code S - not any tournament with GSL in the title!
So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
This again lol. 1) They are 3-3. Also Maru is the one who didn't make the finals if GSL v World for them to have met there, so U can't really use this argument
2) Serral has been destroying every tournament - 4 WCS in a row, plus a GSL.
3) yes Maru has done very well but as some have noted, it is in the post-teamhouse era while he is in the only remaining teamhouse. He said himself he couldn't do it without bunny and cure in the interview.
Also how do you say Neeb isn't top 20 if he got to semis, or reynor to ro16? You're arguments are internally inconsistent.
4) Serral prepared no more than the Koreans did. It's not like he prepared for every Korean he would face. All you're saying is that it was a fair fight.
5) GSL v World is actually harder in some regards as it requires a lot more stamina in a short period, and you don't have the luxury of spending a week with your team mates pretending to be your opponent (note only Jin Air can do this as mentioned above)
Come on guy, Maru only -just- beat TY here, you can pretend all you want but it's basically neck and neck between Serral and Maru, if not Serral favoured for the reasons outlined above.
Don't know about that, but in that thing you quote he literally says that only Serral is the only player from top20 who doesn't play in GSL. That doesn't imply anything about Neeb or Raynor.
On September 16 2018 01:00 argonautdice wrote: Imagine where Life could be now if he didn't matchfix I feel like he's the only one who can go toe-to-toe with Maru in terms of micro and maneuvering.
or imagine if he just didn't get caught. lots of match-fixing goes on in a great many different competitions without it ever getting caught.
Oh man! What a finals!! Game 4 was just incredible. If at Blizzcon we have a Maru vs Serral finals, I honestly don't know who I would want to win. Being a lifelong Terran player, of course I would cheer for Maru! However, seeing the Korean dominance for the existence of StarCraft, I would love it if a foreigner would win and Serral's play style is fantastic. Either way, we would all be in for a treat if that happens!!
On September 16 2018 01:24 Serimek wrote: It was a wondeful match. Both TY and Maru looked marvelous. In all honesty, I'm as happy for Maru as I am sad for TY. We're blessed to have those two Terrans to BlizzCon anyway.
Two questions are in my mind since the finals :
1/ What if Life did not match-fix? Boy oh boy Maru vs him could have been the best rivalry ever.
2/ Will a Serral vs. Maru finals at BlizzCon, if it ever happens, be as good as this wonderful clash between the best Terrans in the world right now?
Maru said before that Rogue's winning in Blizzcon is his primary motivation. So if Life winning Blizzcon 2017, then Maru ended up being like the old one. No motivation.
Fantastic games! Amazing finals with great narrative! Both played their hearts out and TY came SO CLOSE to taking it all. People were complaining about mirror match up finals but I'd bet this one didn't disappoint them. Let's goooooooo Blizzcon!
On September 15 2018 22:08 ArtyK wrote: The perfect setup for Serral to crush Maru's hopes and dreams
He should qualify for GSL Code S first. And then win it 4 times in a row.
On September 15 2018 ArtyK wrote: I just think it's crazy that people continue to disregard his unprecedented achievements this year.
I think you have to accept that fact that GSL Code S is still the hardest tournament to win in Starcraft II. But yes, foreign scene has leveled up in skills and has gone as far as ro.4 in GSL Code S, that's a great progress.
On September 16 2018 03:40 showstealer1829 wrote: It's going to be so amusing to me to see the reaction of the Serral fans when he implodes and fails to make it out of the Ro16
I mean, with the way blizzcon works it's not that unlikely. Let's say he faces TY and Rogue in the groupstage - I don't think it would be a massive surprise if Serral got knocked out there.
Life > Mvp all day all night. Life was playing during the highest skill era. SC2 was young, and without kespa players when Mvp was winning. Mvp was lucky there were million of GSL's in 2011, when he was at his prime.
Life was a patchzerg while Mvp fought through injury. One is a legend of sc2 while the other is a failure
You forgot about 2011, and first half of 2012, when terrans were winning everything ? Life was winning on good patches, but also showed he can dominate without good balance for him.
On September 15 2018 22:45 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: lol took TL writers 1 hour to produce Maru's GSL win news. Its been 6 days since Serral's WCS win and still no news post. No bias whatsoever.
"Bias" towards the tournament that actually matters. How shocking!
Do you also accuse your paper news of bias when they report on Chamipons League results and not the backyard friendly game in your local retirement home?
Life > Mvp all day all night. Life was playing during the highest skill era. SC2 was young, and without kespa players when Mvp was winning. Mvp was lucky there were million of GSL's in 2011, when he was at his prime.
Life was a patchzerg while Mvp fought through injury. One is a legend of sc2 while the other is a failure
Life was a shamful matchfixer but let's not not go the patchzerg route. If anything, Terran had the most imbalanced era ever in Korea and Mvp just so happens to have been his most dominant during that period. Mvp would of course also prove himself when Terran wasn't doing so hot, but then again the same could've been attributed to Life.
Life's 2nd peak from Blizzcon 2014 - about season 2 of GSL/SSL is stll arguably the strongest peak we've ever had imo. Zerg wasn't that strong, the competiton was at its peak with everyone greatly adapted to HotS and despite all that Life seemed to be able to do just about anything and win.
I really cannot understand pro-Serral trolls. Serral is incredible but all his achievement are in WCS ni way close of GSL level and Maru just took his goddamn 3rd CONSECUTIVE GSL title. He did beat the top of the top korean playes meanwhile Serral struggled against Lambo?. There is 0 comparison and Blizzcon will show you. No, GSL vs World is not a GSL and you troll know it.
On September 15 2018 22:17 Odoakar wrote: Why didnt we get a news like this for serral wcs win?
Because GSL is actually an accomplishment. Like it or not, regionlocking has made the WCS far less competitive than it would be otherwise, championships are less prestigious as a result.
No one is denying how good Serral is, but until he wins either Blizzcon, or an actual GSL his victories have an enormous asterisk next to them.
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
I don't know why I'm bothering responding to you, but here we go
Scarlett won IEM Pyeongchang and got ro8 in Code S season 1 2018, and Reynor very nearly 2-0'd Maru in their RO16 match. It's ridiculous to say that neither of them would get air time against Maru, especially when Reynor literally *did* get 45 minutes. In addition, it's hardly fair to judge by that tiny match score in BO3's that Serral is a much worse player than Maru. I will grant that Montreal isn't nearly as impressive as Code S, but dear god man, if you want to prove that point you can do it without straight up lying.
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
I don't know why I'm bothering responding to you, but here we go
Scarlett won IEM Pyeongchang and got ro8 in Code S season 1 2018, and Reynor very nearly 2-0'd Maru in their RO16 match. It's ridiculous to say that neither of them would get air time against Maru, especially when Reynor literally *did* get 45 minutes. In addition, it's hardly fair to judge by that tiny match score in BO3's that Serral is a much worse player than Maru. I will grant that Montreal isn't nearly as impressive as Code S, but dear god man, if you want to prove that point you can do it without straight up lying.
Also to Serral's credit, using his results in ZvZ to gauge his prowess vs a Terran like Maru is apples and oranges. For all we know, Reynor is some kind of TvZ savant, it's too bad we can't gauge that yet since he has so few matches vs quality Terran opponents for us to analyze.
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
I don't know why I'm bothering responding to you, but here we go
Scarlett won IEM Pyeongchang and got ro8 in Code S season 1 2018, and Reynor very nearly 2-0'd Maru in their RO16 match. It's ridiculous to say that neither of them would get air time against Maru, especially when Reynor literally *did* get 45 minutes. In addition, it's hardly fair to judge by that tiny match score in BO3's that Serral is a much worse player than Maru. I will grant that Montreal isn't nearly as impressive as Code S, but dear god man, if you want to prove that point you can do it without straight up lying.
Also to Serral's credit, using his results in ZvZ to gauge his prowess vs a Terran like Maru is apples and oranges. For all we know, Reynor is some kind of TvZ savant, it's too bad we can't gauge that yet since he has so few matches vs quality Terran opponents for us to analyze.
I'm very much looking forward to seeing him compete in GSL again at some point in the future. I think he'd get past the RO16 this time.
i drove to Montreal to watch the Dreamhack thing. WCS-Montreal was a lot of fun...but, i'm not delusional...
GSL is a lot better than WCS. The level of play in this season's GSL was higher than WCS-Montreal. Maru > Serral. GSL>WCS.
seeing as people like talking about the 4-horseman i'll quote the founder of the 4 horseman ... Maru "is the greatest player on the face of god's green earth, Gene"
On September 15 2018 22:17 Odoakar wrote: Why didnt we get a news like this for serral wcs win?
Because GSL is actually an accomplishment. Like it or not, regionlocking has made the WCS far less competitive than it would be otherwise, championships are less prestigious as a result.
No one is denying how good Serral is, but until he wins either Blizzcon, or an actual GSL his victories have an enormous asterisk next to them.
Yes, clearly TL staff look at this and decided that WCS wasn't worth an article, it couldn't possibly be that a group of mostly unpaid voluntary writters didn't yet have the time or the inspiration to finish writting this particular article.
For all of the pro-Serral people in this thread, this argument is EXACTLY why Regionlocking is bad for the game. It pollutes the entire competitive atmosphere of the game's esports scene.
People as good as Serral shouldnt be beating up inferior opponents, it'd be like putting an NBA player on a college basketball court.
Serral has already proven that he is far superior to the level of competition of WCS. He shouldn't be competiting in it any more than the Koreans. Somehow though because he's white instead of Korean though it's OK. It's a stupid idea and it deprives us of seeing him vs the players he should be actually competing against.
On September 15 2018 22:17 Odoakar wrote: Why didnt we get a news like this for serral wcs win?
Because GSL is actually an accomplishment. Like it or not, regionlocking has made the WCS far less competitive than it would be otherwise, championships are less prestigious as a result.
No one is denying how good Serral is, but until he wins either Blizzcon, or an actual GSL his victories have an enormous asterisk next to them.
Yes, clearly TL staff look at this and decided that WCS wasn't worth an article, it couldn't possibly be that a group of mostly unpaid voluntary writters didn't yet have the time or the inspiration to finish writting this particular article.
And yet the same staff found a way to make an article for the GSL, could it possibly be because more people pay attention to GSL news?
Could it possibly be because 3 straight GSL titles is a much bigger deal?
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
I don't know why I'm bothering responding to you, but here we go
Scarlett won IEM Pyeongchang and got ro8 in Code S season 1 2018, and Reynor very nearly 2-0'd Maru in their RO16 match. It's ridiculous to say that neither of them would get air time against Maru, especially when Reynor literally *did* get 45 minutes. In addition, it's hardly fair to judge by that tiny match score in BO3's that Serral is a much worse player than Maru. I will grant that Montreal isn't nearly as impressive as Code S, but dear god man, if you want to prove that point you can do it without straight up lying.
almost doing something doesn't count. You either do it, or don't. Reynor lost. Get over it.
Edit> I almost send money to a charity. What a noble spirit am I!
How is one's first reaction after watching an EPIC TvT GSL finals (honestly I'm still pumped after this morning) coming to TL forum to argue about Maru/Serral and Koreans vs rest of the world?
Like, can't you just enjoy SC2 rather than arguing like children about who's right and who's not? (moreover, this is not really debating, it's just low-key insulting others trying to be right..)
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
I don't know why I'm bothering responding to you, but here we go
Scarlett won IEM Pyeongchang and got ro8 in Code S season 1 2018, and Reynor very nearly 2-0'd Maru in their RO16 match. It's ridiculous to say that neither of them would get air time against Maru, especially when Reynor literally *did* get 45 minutes. In addition, it's hardly fair to judge by that tiny match score in BO3's that Serral is a much worse player than Maru. I will grant that Montreal isn't nearly as impressive as Code S, but dear god man, if you want to prove that point you can do it without straight up lying.
almost doing something doesn't count. You either do it, or don't. Reynor lost. Get over it.
Edit> I almost send money to a charity. What a noble spirit am I!
I'm not denying that Reynor lost lmao. He lost fair and square. But I think that it means at least a little bit in what fashion you lost. I'm also definitely not claiming he's as good as Maru - no one in the world is, in my opinion. I'm just pointing out that what Rodya said is, as usual, just plain incorrect.
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
I don't know why I'm bothering responding to you, but here we go
Scarlett won IEM Pyeongchang and got ro8 in Code S season 1 2018, and Reynor very nearly 2-0'd Maru in their RO16 match. It's ridiculous to say that neither of them would get air time against Maru, especially when Reynor literally *did* get 45 minutes. In addition, it's hardly fair to judge by that tiny match score in BO3's that Serral is a much worse player than Maru. I will grant that Montreal isn't nearly as impressive as Code S, but dear god man, if you want to prove that point you can do it without straight up lying.
For all we know, Reynor is some kind of TvZ savant, it's too bad we can't gauge that yet since he has so few matches vs quality Terran opponents for us to analyze.
He is. His style and execution is a nightmare for terran to deal with. I don't have much doubt that ZvT is his best match style-wise. His mechanics are far from optimal as well, or even the level of Serral, Dark etc, which makes him even more exiting as an up and coming star.
Feel sad for TY. He was the more refined terran today. Brought interesting strats to the table while Maru proxy raxed every game.
But being gutsy and having killer sense is also a skill. As far as TVT goes, I feel TY was the better player, but Maru took more risks, even when he was about to lose in that last game he didn't flinch and went for it. I guess sometimes this is what it takes to be the champ!
Life > Mvp all day all night. Life was playing during the highest skill era. SC2 was young, and without kespa players when Mvp was winning. Mvp was lucky there were million of GSL's in 2011, when he was at his prime.
Life was a patchzerg while Mvp fought through injury. One is a legend of sc2 while the other is a failure[/QUOTE]
I absolutely agree with this post. idk why people talk about life, hes done and dusted there is absolutely no point of even mentioning his name you can theory craft all you want, but maru will eat him for breakfast.
Dave4 Profile PM Joined August 2018 42 Posts Last Edited: 2018-09-15 09:17:53 4 hours ago #50 On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: As usual, some people have to come in and mention Serral in every thread about Maru... so annoying. Some quick facts for the rest of this thread (no one shall ever need to state them again in this thread, but I think someone has to in each thread the trolls appear):
1) Serral is 0-3 vs Maru in official matches. They played at WESG semi-finals and Maru won without any game being even slightly close.
2) Serral barely won WCS Montreal against players that couldn't even qualify for GSL, or in Reynor's case, did not perform very well.
3) Maru has won 3 GSL in a row against the best competition in the world... the only possible top 20 player that doesnt play in GSL is Serral.
4) GSL vs the World is a real tournament, but it's one that Koreans traditionally do not prepare that much for and going into it, Serral was not considered a threat to Koreans at ALL. Thus Koreans did not prepare for Serral and as testified by Artosis himself, they were shocked when they saw Serral playing well in the ro8.
5) Gsl vs. the World is NOT a GSL. When you say "X has won a GSL" you mean Code S - not any tournament with GSL in the title!
So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
This again lol. 1) They are 3-3. Also Maru is the one who didn't make the finals if GSL v World for them to have met there, so U can't really use this argument
2) Serral has been destroying every tournament - 4 WCS in a row, plus a GSL.
3) yes Maru has done very well but as some have noted, it is in the post-teamhouse era while he is in the only remaining teamhouse. He said himself he couldn't do it without bunny and cure in the interview.
Also how do you say Neeb isn't top 20 if he got to semis, or reynor to ro16? You're arguments are internally inconsistent.
4) Serral prepared no more than the Koreans did. It's not like he prepared for every Korean he would face. All you're saying is that it was a fair fight.
5) GSL v World is actually harder in some regards as it requires a lot more stamina in a short period, and you don't have the luxury of spending a week with your team mates pretending to be your opponent (note only Jin Air can do this as mentioned above)
Come on guy, Maru only -just- beat TY here, you can pretend all you want but it's basically neck and neck between Serral and Maru, if not Serral favoured for the reasons outlined above.
And this is why Region Lock is a great shield for foreigners to hide.
And it is 3-1 for Maru in this year record. (You do not count online result that even played on EU server, unless you don't understand this game.)
Everyone knows Serral is a great player, but fact is comparing Circuit champion to GSL champion is an insult for GSL champion tbh. Why? Because WCS Circuit event is simply just a tournament which does not allow Koreans, and GSL allows everyone.
GSL = Major League WCS Circuit = Minor League
I am not trying to insult/depreciate Circuit or anything, it is just true and we all know there's region lock, which is for protecting foreigners from Koreans. And Serral is pretty much the only guaranteed top KR level player, who is simply destroying the foreign scene. And vs Korea, he won one tournament GSL vs World, but he also got destroyed by Maru and Classic in WESG and IEM which had huge prize pool.
Maru is clearly the only top player in the world now.
But, Serral isn't someone yet to be mentioned like that yet by just winning a tourny in Korea and dominating Circuit. Even Stats has won Super tournament s1, and Rogue has won IEM World championship this year where Maru attended.
I would rather say Maru vs TY/Serral/rest top Koreans.
Every top "major league" needs a bunch of minor leagues to prepare the close to the best to become good enough for the best league. There is nothing wrong with multiple leagues of several skill levels.
I'm pretty sure the total attendance of minor league and college baseball is similar to the total attendance for major league baseball.
On September 16 2018 05:40 Kaewins wrote: Congrats to Maru!
Feel sad for TY. He was the more refined terran today. Brought interesting strats to the table while Maru proxy raxed every game.
But being gutsy and having killer sense is also a skill. As far as TVT goes, I feel TY was the better player, but Maru took more risks, even when he was about to lose in that last game he didn't flinch and went for it. I guess sometimes this is what it takes to be the champ!
Very entertaining finals!
Not sure what you meant by refined. Both players games in with a plan: maru was to proxy, and TY was to deflect the proxy into a sharp timing. If you meant refined in terms of macro and late game; Maru basically dominated and outplayed TY.
TY definitely had the counter play to Maru's proxies, but if he didn't get the kill with his sharp timings; Maru would outmacro, micro and maneuver TY.
Every top "major league" needs a bunch of minor leagues to prepare the close to the best to become good enough for the best league. There is nothing wrong with multiple leagues of several skill levels.
I'm pretty sure the total attendance of minor league and college baseball is similar to the total attendance for major league baseball.
But winning Circuit and GSL definitely cannot be compared.
You do not compare Manchester City winning English Premier League to Liverpool winning in 2nd division League.
Congrats to Maru and TY. Quite an interesting series.
On September 16 2018 05:16 VHbb wrote: How is one's first reaction after watching an EPIC TvT GSL finals (honestly I'm still pumped after this morning) coming to TL forum to argue about Maru/Serral and Koreans vs rest of the world?
Like, can't you just enjoy SC2 rather than arguing like children about who's right and who's not? (moreover, this is not really debating, it's just low-key insulting others trying to be right..)
Because several people made the mistake of thinking that Maru vs Serral would be exciting (given how well both have done and whatnot), and seeing that a series between them would be competitive. Obviously some people need to then shut down all that with a bunch of delusional and/or hyperbolic things that pop into their heads. Only trying to provoke people is entertaining for some.
On September 16 2018 06:39 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote: And fun fact about blizzcon is that all winners were unexpected except someone like ByuN in 2016.
Since HotS,
2013 - sOs (12th)
2014 - Life (14th)
2015 - sOs (14th)
2016 - ByuN (KR 3rd)
2017 - Rogue (KR 8th)
even ByuN started rising in late 2016, he used to be someone gets eliminated in Code A in early 2016.
All foreign fans hope Maru vs Serral as blizzcon final
Most of Korean fans think Maru will win this blizzcon
But the actual winner can be someone that nobody expected. :D
On September 16 2018 06:39 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote: And fun fact about blizzcon is that all winners were unexpected except someone like ByuN in 2016.
Since HotS,
2013 - sOs (12th)
2014 - Life (14th)
2015 - sOs (14th)
2016 - ByuN (KR 3rd)
2017 - Rogue (KR 8th)
even ByuN started rising in late 2016, he used to be someone gets eliminated in Code A in early 2016.
All foreign fans hope Maru vs Serral as blizzcon final
Most of Korean fans think Maru will win this blizzcon
But the actual winner can be someone that nobody expected. :D
It's a shame they limit the korea invites to 8. sOs can't do okay for the year and then win it like he used to.
On September 16 2018 06:39 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote: And fun fact about blizzcon is that all winners were unexpected except someone like ByuN in 2016.
Since HotS,
2013 - sOs (12th)
2014 - Life (14th)
2015 - sOs (14th)
2016 - ByuN (KR 3rd)
2017 - Rogue (KR 8th)
even ByuN started rising in late 2016, he used to be someone gets eliminated in Code A in early 2016.
All foreign fans hope Maru vs Serral as blizzcon final
Most of Korean fans think Maru will win this blizzcon
But the actual winner can be someone that nobody expected. :D
probably end up being like Classic vs Zest final
Entirely possible if every zerg player decides to not show
What an amazing series. TY had all the clever tricks, the empty medivacs to bait, the LOS blocker trick on Dreamcatcher, using the CC to load SCVs against the reaper harass, and super-sharp pushes. Yet Maru just showed himself to be the stronger player mechanically despite putting himself behind repeatedly with the proxies.
Since when were we allowed to have tournament finals this good?
On September 16 2018 06:39 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote: And fun fact about blizzcon is that all winners were unexpected except someone like ByuN in 2016.
Since HotS,
2013 - sOs (12th)
2014 - Life (14th)
2015 - sOs (14th)
2016 - ByuN (KR 3rd)
2017 - Rogue (KR 8th)
even ByuN started rising in late 2016, he used to be someone gets eliminated in Code A in early 2016.
All foreign fans hope Maru vs Serral as blizzcon final
Most of Korean fans think Maru will win this blizzcon
But the actual winner can be someone that nobody expected. :D
Maru also underperform when he played in foreing tournament, outside of tournament in the relatively near China I don't think he ever got to a final of a foreing tournament. Of course JAGW has never been keen to send their player abroard, but he still entered in quite a few over the years and underperformed quite a bit, lets wait and see but it could be harder outside of the studio environnement where he shine.
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: As usual, some people have to come in and mention Serral in every thread about Maru... so annoying. Some quick facts for the rest of this thread (no one shall ever need to state them again in this thread, but I think someone has to in each thread the trolls appear):
1) Serral is 0-3 vs Maru in official matches. They played at WESG semi-finals and Maru won without any game being even slightly close.
2) Serral barely won WCS Montreal against players that couldn't even qualify for GSL, or in Reynor's case, did not perform very well.
3) Maru has won 3 GSL in a row against the best competition in the world... the only possible top 20 player that doesnt play in GSL is Serral.
4) GSL vs the World is a real tournament, but it's one that Koreans traditionally do not prepare that much for and going into it, Serral was not considered a threat to Koreans at ALL. Thus Koreans did not prepare for Serral and as testified by Artosis himself, they were shocked when they saw Serral playing well in the ro8.
5) Gsl vs. the World is NOT a GSL. When you say "X has won a GSL" you mean Code S - not any tournament with GSL in the title!
So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
This again lol. 1) They are 3-3. Also Maru is the one who didn't make the finals if GSL v World for them to have met there, so U can't really use this argument
2) Serral has been destroying every tournament - 4 WCS in a row, plus a GSL.
3) yes Maru has done very well but as some have noted, it is in the post-teamhouse era while he is in the only remaining teamhouse. He said himself he couldn't do it without bunny and cure in the interview.
Also how do you say Neeb isn't top 20 if he got to semis, or reynor to ro16? You're arguments are internally inconsistent.
4) Serral prepared no more than the Koreans did. It's not like he prepared for every Korean he would face. All you're saying is that it was a fair fight.
5) GSL v World is actually harder in some regards as it requires a lot more stamina in a short period, and you don't have the luxury of spending a week with your team mates pretending to be your opponent (note only Jin Air can do this as mentioned above)
Come on guy, Maru only -just- beat TY here, you can pretend all you want but it's basically neck and neck between Serral and Maru, if not Serral favoured for the reasons outlined above.
Is this Dave4 person like a mirror image Rodya troll?????
*only* just beat TY?
ok buddy
serral is good, but i'd say neeb has proved himself more in GSL, the toughest tournament in the world. few others have gone as far as he has. just jinro and naniwa iirc. serral needs to be compete in more tourneys with koreans then you can be hyping him up so much and downplaying maru.
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: As usual, some people have to come in and mention Serral in every thread about Maru... so annoying. Some quick facts for the rest of this thread (no one shall ever need to state them again in this thread, but I think someone has to in each thread the trolls appear):
1) Serral is 0-3 vs Maru in official matches. They played at WESG semi-finals and Maru won without any game being even slightly close.
2) Serral barely won WCS Montreal against players that couldn't even qualify for GSL, or in Reynor's case, did not perform very well.
3) Maru has won 3 GSL in a row against the best competition in the world... the only possible top 20 player that doesnt play in GSL is Serral.
4) GSL vs the World is a real tournament, but it's one that Koreans traditionally do not prepare that much for and going into it, Serral was not considered a threat to Koreans at ALL. Thus Koreans did not prepare for Serral and as testified by Artosis himself, they were shocked when they saw Serral playing well in the ro8.
5) Gsl vs. the World is NOT a GSL. When you say "X has won a GSL" you mean Code S - not any tournament with GSL in the title!
So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
This again lol. 1) They are 3-3. Also Maru is the one who didn't make the finals if GSL v World for them to have met there, so U can't really use this argument
2) Serral has been destroying every tournament - 4 WCS in a row, plus a GSL.
3) yes Maru has done very well but as some have noted, it is in the post-teamhouse era while he is in the only remaining teamhouse. He said himself he couldn't do it without bunny and cure in the interview.
Also how do you say Neeb isn't top 20 if he got to semis, or reynor to ro16? You're arguments are internally inconsistent.
4) Serral prepared no more than the Koreans did. It's not like he prepared for every Korean he would face. All you're saying is that it was a fair fight.
5) GSL v World is actually harder in some regards as it requires a lot more stamina in a short period, and you don't have the luxury of spending a week with your team mates pretending to be your opponent (note only Jin Air can do this as mentioned above)
Come on guy, Maru only -just- beat TY here, you can pretend all you want but it's basically neck and neck between Serral and Maru, if not Serral favoured for the reasons outlined above.
Is this Dave4 person like a mirror image Rodya troll?????
*only* just beat TY?
ok buddy
serral is good, but i'd say neeb has proved himself more in GSL, the toughest tournament in the world. few others have gone as far as he has. just jinro and naniwa iirc. serral needs to be compete in more tourneys with koreans then you can be hyping him up so much and downplaying maru.
Give him a break. Responding to Rodya inevitably drags one down to his own level :p
Neeb's ro4 GSL run is an impressive achievement in its own right, but considering that Neeb's best 2018 WCS run was also a single ro4 appearance while Serral won all 4 of them, it is imo hard to argue that Neeb "has proven himself more" than Serral.
On a side note - not that it is particularly relevant - unless my sc2 trivia is having a huge gap, Neeb and Jinro are the only foreigners to reach a ro4 of a GSL.
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: As usual, some people have to come in and mention Serral in every thread about Maru... so annoying. Some quick facts for the rest of this thread (no one shall ever need to state them again in this thread, but I think someone has to in each thread the trolls appear):
1) Serral is 0-3 vs Maru in official matches. They played at WESG semi-finals and Maru won without any game being even slightly close.
2) Serral barely won WCS Montreal against players that couldn't even qualify for GSL, or in Reynor's case, did not perform very well.
3) Maru has won 3 GSL in a row against the best competition in the world... the only possible top 20 player that doesnt play in GSL is Serral.
4) GSL vs the World is a real tournament, but it's one that Koreans traditionally do not prepare that much for and going into it, Serral was not considered a threat to Koreans at ALL. Thus Koreans did not prepare for Serral and as testified by Artosis himself, they were shocked when they saw Serral playing well in the ro8.
5) Gsl vs. the World is NOT a GSL. When you say "X has won a GSL" you mean Code S - not any tournament with GSL in the title!
So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
This again lol. 1) They are 3-3. Also Maru is the one who didn't make the finals if GSL v World for them to have met there, so U can't really use this argument
2) Serral has been destroying every tournament - 4 WCS in a row, plus a GSL.
3) yes Maru has done very well but as some have noted, it is in the post-teamhouse era while he is in the only remaining teamhouse. He said himself he couldn't do it without bunny and cure in the interview.
Also how do you say Neeb isn't top 20 if he got to semis, or reynor to ro16? You're arguments are internally inconsistent.
4) Serral prepared no more than the Koreans did. It's not like he prepared for every Korean he would face. All you're saying is that it was a fair fight.
5) GSL v World is actually harder in some regards as it requires a lot more stamina in a short period, and you don't have the luxury of spending a week with your team mates pretending to be your opponent (note only Jin Air can do this as mentioned above)
Come on guy, Maru only -just- beat TY here, you can pretend all you want but it's basically neck and neck between Serral and Maru, if not Serral favoured for the reasons outlined above.
Is this Dave4 person like a mirror image Rodya troll?????
*only* just beat TY?
ok buddy
serral is good, but i'd say neeb has proved himself more in GSL, the toughest tournament in the world. few others have gone as far as he has. just jinro and naniwa iirc. serral needs to be compete in more tourneys with koreans then you can be hyping him up so much and downplaying maru.
Give him a break. Responding to Rodya inevitably drags one down to his own level :p
Neeb's ro4 GSL run is an impressive achievement in its own right, but considering that Neeb's best 2018 WCS run was also a single ro4 appearance while Serral won all 4 of them, it is imo hard to argue that Neeb "has proven himself more" than Serral.
On a side note - not that it is particularly relevant - unless my sc2 trivia is having a huge gap, Neeb and Jinro are the only foreigners to reach a ro4 of a GSL.
Nope, you're right, just Neeb & Jinro way back in 2010 GSL 3 where he was 4-0'd by MC.
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: As usual, some people have to come in and mention Serral in every thread about Maru... so annoying. Some quick facts for the rest of this thread (no one shall ever need to state them again in this thread, but I think someone has to in each thread the trolls appear):
1) Serral is 0-3 vs Maru in official matches. They played at WESG semi-finals and Maru won without any game being even slightly close.
2) Serral barely won WCS Montreal against players that couldn't even qualify for GSL, or in Reynor's case, did not perform very well.
3) Maru has won 3 GSL in a row against the best competition in the world... the only possible top 20 player that doesnt play in GSL is Serral.
4) GSL vs the World is a real tournament, but it's one that Koreans traditionally do not prepare that much for and going into it, Serral was not considered a threat to Koreans at ALL. Thus Koreans did not prepare for Serral and as testified by Artosis himself, they were shocked when they saw Serral playing well in the ro8.
5) Gsl vs. the World is NOT a GSL. When you say "X has won a GSL" you mean Code S - not any tournament with GSL in the title!
So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
This again lol. 1) They are 3-3. Also Maru is the one who didn't make the finals if GSL v World for them to have met there, so U can't really use this argument
2) Serral has been destroying every tournament - 4 WCS in a row, plus a GSL.
3) yes Maru has done very well but as some have noted, it is in the post-teamhouse era while he is in the only remaining teamhouse. He said himself he couldn't do it without bunny and cure in the interview.
Also how do you say Neeb isn't top 20 if he got to semis, or reynor to ro16? You're arguments are internally inconsistent.
4) Serral prepared no more than the Koreans did. It's not like he prepared for every Korean he would face. All you're saying is that it was a fair fight.
5) GSL v World is actually harder in some regards as it requires a lot more stamina in a short period, and you don't have the luxury of spending a week with your team mates pretending to be your opponent (note only Jin Air can do this as mentioned above)
Come on guy, Maru only -just- beat TY here, you can pretend all you want but it's basically neck and neck between Serral and Maru, if not Serral favoured for the reasons outlined above.
Is this Dave4 person like a mirror image Rodya troll?????
*only* just beat TY?
ok buddy
serral is good, but i'd say neeb has proved himself more in GSL, the toughest tournament in the world. few others have gone as far as he has. just jinro and naniwa iirc. serral needs to be compete in more tourneys with koreans then you can be hyping him up so much and downplaying maru.
I am not a troll I simply state the things everyone else is overlooking due to bias. Since you've raised Neeb, he is a perfect example that GSL is not 100x harder than WCS: he was a semi finalist in GSL and only made it to Ro16 in WCS. Reynor I know did the opposite, but overall it shows that the league's are comparable now since the fall of the team houses in Korea.
Still noone seems to try to counter that argument they just say I'm a troll. But the reality is Maru has this as a big advantage over others which has to be at least considered a major factor in his current streak. He is of course peaking in his own right as well, but it's no coincidence that Jin Airs top players have all had massive periods of dominance since the other kespa houses faded.
The Korean teamhouse environment is accredited as the main reason for the existence of the Korean-Foreigner gap in the first place.
Look, no one is disputing that Serral is a great player. No one is. What most people are saying is that he doesn't compare to Maru. Even if you want to make the case that the leagues are comparable, ok. I can even give you that, but if a Maru-Serral match occures, it probably won't be competitive.
I don't remember the last time I saw a Terran player play as well as Maru has been playing this year. Sure, Innovation can macro like a god, sure Byun is good with reapers, TY is a tactical genius, but Maru is a complete package. A perfect Terran, the level of dominance and rafined play by Maru this year has been insane. The gap between him and everyone else was probably larger or at least equal to the gap between Mvp and the others back when Mvp was God.
But we have seen Zergs play like Serral. We have seen them play better then Serral. Remember soO 2014.? Life in both his peaks? Dark 2016.? Rogue last year/this year? They all played Zerg to a higher level then Serral.
Sure he can compete with all of them, trade series with them, but not dominate. Not like Maru has. We have not seen this yet, and until I do, I will not call it a dream finals.
Maybe he does beat Maru at Blizzcon. Maybe he wins it. Then we can talk.
Maybe he loses in the groups. Maybe he doesn't win a map. Then we can talk.
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: As usual, some people have to come in and mention Serral in every thread about Maru... so annoying. Some quick facts for the rest of this thread (no one shall ever need to state them again in this thread, but I think someone has to in each thread the trolls appear):
1) Serral is 0-3 vs Maru in official matches. They played at WESG semi-finals and Maru won without any game being even slightly close.
2) Serral barely won WCS Montreal against players that couldn't even qualify for GSL, or in Reynor's case, did not perform very well.
3) Maru has won 3 GSL in a row against the best competition in the world... the only possible top 20 player that doesnt play in GSL is Serral.
4) GSL vs the World is a real tournament, but it's one that Koreans traditionally do not prepare that much for and going into it, Serral was not considered a threat to Koreans at ALL. Thus Koreans did not prepare for Serral and as testified by Artosis himself, they were shocked when they saw Serral playing well in the ro8.
5) Gsl vs. the World is NOT a GSL. When you say "X has won a GSL" you mean Code S - not any tournament with GSL in the title!
So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
This again lol. 1) They are 3-3. Also Maru is the one who didn't make the finals if GSL v World for them to have met there, so U can't really use this argument
2) Serral has been destroying every tournament - 4 WCS in a row, plus a GSL.
3) yes Maru has done very well but as some have noted, it is in the post-teamhouse era while he is in the only remaining teamhouse. He said himself he couldn't do it without bunny and cure in the interview.
Also how do you say Neeb isn't top 20 if he got to semis, or reynor to ro16? You're arguments are internally inconsistent.
4) Serral prepared no more than the Koreans did. It's not like he prepared for every Korean he would face. All you're saying is that it was a fair fight.
5) GSL v World is actually harder in some regards as it requires a lot more stamina in a short period, and you don't have the luxury of spending a week with your team mates pretending to be your opponent (note only Jin Air can do this as mentioned above)
Come on guy, Maru only -just- beat TY here, you can pretend all you want but it's basically neck and neck between Serral and Maru, if not Serral favoured for the reasons outlined above.
Is this Dave4 person like a mirror image Rodya troll?????
On September 16 2018 01:41 Rodya wrote: I however, am not a troll and have only stated facts in this thread and a congratulations for Maru.
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: As usual, some people have to come in and mention Serral in every thread about Maru... so annoying. Some quick facts for the rest of this thread (no one shall ever need to state them again in this thread, but I think someone has to in each thread the trolls appear):
1) Serral is 0-3 vs Maru in official matches. They played at WESG semi-finals and Maru won without any game being even slightly close.
2) Serral barely won WCS Montreal against players that couldn't even qualify for GSL, or in Reynor's case, did not perform very well.
3) Maru has won 3 GSL in a row against the best competition in the world... the only possible top 20 player that doesnt play in GSL is Serral.
4) GSL vs the World is a real tournament, but it's one that Koreans traditionally do not prepare that much for and going into it, Serral was not considered a threat to Koreans at ALL. Thus Koreans did not prepare for Serral and as testified by Artosis himself, they were shocked when they saw Serral playing well in the ro8.
5) Gsl vs. the World is NOT a GSL. When you say "X has won a GSL" you mean Code S - not any tournament with GSL in the title!
So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
This again lol. 1) They are 3-3. Also Maru is the one who didn't make the finals if GSL v World for them to have met there, so U can't really use this argument
2) Serral has been destroying every tournament - 4 WCS in a row, plus a GSL.
3) yes Maru has done very well but as some have noted, it is in the post-teamhouse era while he is in the only remaining teamhouse. He said himself he couldn't do it without bunny and cure in the interview.
Also how do you say Neeb isn't top 20 if he got to semis, or reynor to ro16? You're arguments are internally inconsistent.
4) Serral prepared no more than the Koreans did. It's not like he prepared for every Korean he would face. All you're saying is that it was a fair fight.
5) GSL v World is actually harder in some regards as it requires a lot more stamina in a short period, and you don't have the luxury of spending a week with your team mates pretending to be your opponent (note only Jin Air can do this as mentioned above)
Come on guy, Maru only -just- beat TY here, you can pretend all you want but it's basically neck and neck between Serral and Maru, if not Serral favoured for the reasons outlined above.
Is this Dave4 person like a mirror image Rodya troll?????
*only* just beat TY?
ok buddy
serral is good, but i'd say neeb has proved himself more in GSL, the toughest tournament in the world. few others have gone as far as he has. just jinro and naniwa iirc. serral needs to be compete in more tourneys with koreans then you can be hyping him up so much and downplaying maru.
I am not a troll I simply state the things everyone else is overlooking due to bias.
Maru is the best right now. But in game 6 he got very lucky. If TY send his SCV scout other direction, it would find the proxy and TY would probably won 4-2... anyway, great series. Hope for Stats-Serral, Stats-Maru, or Maru-Serral at Blizzcon final.
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: As usual, some people have to come in and mention Serral in every thread about Maru... so annoying. Some quick facts for the rest of this thread (no one shall ever need to state them again in this thread, but I think someone has to in each thread the trolls appear):
1) Serral is 0-3 vs Maru in official matches. They played at WESG semi-finals and Maru won without any game being even slightly close.
2) Serral barely won WCS Montreal against players that couldn't even qualify for GSL, or in Reynor's case, did not perform very well.
3) Maru has won 3 GSL in a row against the best competition in the world... the only possible top 20 player that doesnt play in GSL is Serral.
4) GSL vs the World is a real tournament, but it's one that Koreans traditionally do not prepare that much for and going into it, Serral was not considered a threat to Koreans at ALL. Thus Koreans did not prepare for Serral and as testified by Artosis himself, they were shocked when they saw Serral playing well in the ro8.
5) Gsl vs. the World is NOT a GSL. When you say "X has won a GSL" you mean Code S - not any tournament with GSL in the title!
So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
This again lol. 1) They are 3-3. Also Maru is the one who didn't make the finals if GSL v World for them to have met there, so U can't really use this argument
2) Serral has been destroying every tournament - 4 WCS in a row, plus a GSL.
3) yes Maru has done very well but as some have noted, it is in the post-teamhouse era while he is in the only remaining teamhouse. He said himself he couldn't do it without bunny and cure in the interview.
Also how do you say Neeb isn't top 20 if he got to semis, or reynor to ro16? You're arguments are internally inconsistent.
4) Serral prepared no more than the Koreans did. It's not like he prepared for every Korean he would face. All you're saying is that it was a fair fight.
5) GSL v World is actually harder in some regards as it requires a lot more stamina in a short period, and you don't have the luxury of spending a week with your team mates pretending to be your opponent (note only Jin Air can do this as mentioned above)
Come on guy, Maru only -just- beat TY here, you can pretend all you want but it's basically neck and neck between Serral and Maru, if not Serral favoured for the reasons outlined above.
Is this Dave4 person like a mirror image Rodya troll?????
On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: As usual, some people have to come in and mention Serral in every thread about Maru... so annoying. Some quick facts for the rest of this thread (no one shall ever need to state them again in this thread, but I think someone has to in each thread the trolls appear):
1) Serral is 0-3 vs Maru in official matches. They played at WESG semi-finals and Maru won without any game being even slightly close.
2) Serral barely won WCS Montreal against players that couldn't even qualify for GSL, or in Reynor's case, did not perform very well.
3) Maru has won 3 GSL in a row against the best competition in the world... the only possible top 20 player that doesnt play in GSL is Serral.
4) GSL vs the World is a real tournament, but it's one that Koreans traditionally do not prepare that much for and going into it, Serral was not considered a threat to Koreans at ALL. Thus Koreans did not prepare for Serral and as testified by Artosis himself, they were shocked when they saw Serral playing well in the ro8.
5) Gsl vs. the World is NOT a GSL. When you say "X has won a GSL" you mean Code S - not any tournament with GSL in the title!
So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
This again lol. 1) They are 3-3. Also Maru is the one who didn't make the finals if GSL v World for them to have met there, so U can't really use this argument
2) Serral has been destroying every tournament - 4 WCS in a row, plus a GSL.
3) yes Maru has done very well but as some have noted, it is in the post-teamhouse era while he is in the only remaining teamhouse. He said himself he couldn't do it without bunny and cure in the interview.
Also how do you say Neeb isn't top 20 if he got to semis, or reynor to ro16? You're arguments are internally inconsistent.
4) Serral prepared no more than the Koreans did. It's not like he prepared for every Korean he would face. All you're saying is that it was a fair fight.
5) GSL v World is actually harder in some regards as it requires a lot more stamina in a short period, and you don't have the luxury of spending a week with your team mates pretending to be your opponent (note only Jin Air can do this as mentioned above)
Come on guy, Maru only -just- beat TY here, you can pretend all you want but it's basically neck and neck between Serral and Maru, if not Serral favoured for the reasons outlined above.
Is this Dave4 person like a mirror image Rodya troll?????
*only* just beat TY?
ok buddy
serral is good, but i'd say neeb has proved himself more in GSL, the toughest tournament in the world. few others have gone as far as he has. just jinro and naniwa iirc. serral needs to be compete in more tourneys with koreans then you can be hyping him up so much and downplaying maru.
I am not a troll I simply state the things everyone else is overlooking due to bias.
............................
Pretty sure it's the same dude. Just trolling on both sides to bring us balance.
Maru really played the man, rather than the game vs. TY.
He knew his best chance of winning was to avoid playing into TY's preference for macro/harassment style games and vs. his late game prowess. By proxying, Maru takes the initiative, then ceaselessly looks to take control and dictate his opponent's play. Through agressive map presence, and constantly poking/threatening, he forces TYs responses preventing him from executing his game plans.
Talk about playing to your strengths while avoiding his opponents own ones.
On September 16 2018 18:30 AaBbCc wrote: Maru really played the man, rather than the game vs. TY.
He knew his best chance of winning was to avoid playing into TY's preference for macro/harassment style games and vs. his late game prowess. By proxying, Maru takes the initiative, then ceaselessly looks to take control and dictate his opponent's play. Through agressive map presence, and constantly poking/threatening, he forces TYs responses preventing him from executing his game plans.
Talk about playing to your strengths while avoiding his opponents own ones.
Well TY got the game into the macro game in even footing and macro beat him at it, in a really long game of SUPER genius positioning and multitask, maru is just a beast.
On September 16 2018 18:30 AaBbCc wrote: Maru really played the man, rather than the game vs. TY.
He knew his best chance of winning was to avoid playing into TY's preference for macro/harassment style games and vs. his late game prowess. By proxying, Maru takes the initiative, then ceaselessly looks to take control and dictate his opponent's play. Through agressive map presence, and constantly poking/threatening, he forces TYs responses preventing him from executing his game plans.
Talk about playing to your strengths while avoiding his opponents own ones.
Well TY got the game into the macro game in even footing and macro beat him at it, in a really long game of SUPER genius positioning and multitask, maru is just a beast.
Haven't had a chance to watch yet, but from what I've read TY was mainly going for mid-game timings. Not to stay his macro isn't bad, but it's hard to argue he beat Maru at a macro game by hitting a timing.
On September 16 2018 18:30 AaBbCc wrote: Maru really played the man, rather than the game vs. TY.
He knew his best chance of winning was to avoid playing into TY's preference for macro/harassment style games and vs. his late game prowess. By proxying, Maru takes the initiative, then ceaselessly looks to take control and dictate his opponent's play. Through agressive map presence, and constantly poking/threatening, he forces TYs responses preventing him from executing his game plans.
Talk about playing to your strengths while avoiding his opponents own ones.
Well TY got the game into the macro game in even footing and macro beat him at it, in a really long game of SUPER genius positioning and multitask, maru is just a beast.
Haven't had a chance to watch yet, but from what I've read TY was mainly going for mid-game timings. Not to stay his macro isn't bad, but it's hard to argue he beat Maru at a macro game by hitting a timing.
The three games TY won were all with timing attacks at 6-7 minutes. In one of them he didn't technically win with the attack, but he did enough damage that he basically couldn't lose the follow up macro battle.
On September 16 2018 18:30 AaBbCc wrote: Maru really played the man, rather than the game vs. TY.
He knew his best chance of winning was to avoid playing into TY's preference for macro/harassment style games and vs. his late game prowess. By proxying, Maru takes the initiative, then ceaselessly looks to take control and dictate his opponent's play. Through agressive map presence, and constantly poking/threatening, he forces TYs responses preventing him from executing his game plans.
Talk about playing to your strengths while avoiding his opponents own ones.
Well TY got the game into the macro game in even footing and macro beat him at it, in a really long game of SUPER genius positioning and multitask, maru is just a beast.
Haven't had a chance to watch yet, but from what I've read TY was mainly going for mid-game timings. Not to stay his macro isn't bad, but it's hard to argue he beat Maru at a macro game by hitting a timing.
The three games TY won were all with timing attacks at 6-7 minutes. In one of them he didn't technically win with the attack, but he did enough damage that he basically couldn't lose the follow up macro battle.
The reason he was doing timing attacks was because Maru kept proxying. If a player proxies and you defend it successfully, they have to float their production back plus they have their natural later.
So a mid game timing is one of the strongest follow ups because 1) they've had less time to produce defending units while they float back, and 2) they've probably been powering hard to get their economy back up. Often they grab a risky third cc very quickly as Maru did a few times.
A decisive counter strike.
So I wouldn't necessarily say TY couldn't beat Maru in a macro game, it's just he went for specifically the above Strat as it would have probably a 70% chance of success.
Series could definitely have gone either way but grats to the winner Maru on the threepeat!
All year the Protoss hopes have proved very unstable.
Classic 3-0 Serral and then got 4-0 by Rogue in the finals at Katowice and it did even not look like Classic. After disecting SpeciaL 3-0, sOs got 4-1 by Scarlett at Pyeongchang and it did not even look like sOs. Exhausted even weeks after breaking soO's curse by removing him from the semifinals 4-3, Stats crubled 2-4 to Maru in GSL Season 1 and it did not even look like Stats playing. Despite barely winning Super Tournament 1 4-3 vs Dark, Stats did not even make playoffs of GSL Season 2. Because of who? Byun of all people! Zest 4-3 TY in GSL Season 2 just to get 4-0 by Maru in the finals. At some point Zest did not even look like he was trying. Stats 3-1 Maru in GSLvWorld just to fail to Serral's 4-3. Neeb 2-4 TY in GSL Season 3, but where was he all year in WCS Circuit where Serral trounced Protoss left and right: Serral ended Showtime's run 4-2 at Leipzig, broke Mana 4-2 at Austin, busted Has 4-1 in Valencia, and didn't even have anyone but Zerg to contend with at Montreal.. Where was Neeb when his race needed him most?
It's official. This year is all about TvZ. Even hardcore believers like me who want sOs to win GSL Super Tournament 2 and don't think the Protoss stand a chance at Blizzcon this year.
On September 17 2018 03:00 KR_4EVR wrote: It's official. This year is all about TvZ. Even hardcore believers like me who want sOs to win GSL Super Tournament 2 and don't think the Protoss stand a chance at Blizzcon this year.
Which is strange, because out of the 16 premier events (according to liquipedia) in the last 12 months, we've only had 1 TvZ final.
We've also had 12 PvZ, 2 PvT, 1 TvT, 1 ZvZ, in that same time frame.
On September 17 2018 03:00 KR_4EVR wrote: It's official. This year is all about TvZ. Even hardcore believers like me who want sOs to win GSL Super Tournament 2 and don't think the Protoss stand a chance at Blizzcon this year.
Which is strange, because out of the 16 premier events (according to liquipedia) in the last 12 months, we've only had 1 TvZ final.
We've also had 12 PvZ, 2 PvT, 1 TvT, 1 ZvZ, in that same time frame.
To be fair, I think part of that is due to the rarity of Terrans in WCS. Though yeah, it is an odd statistic. It's strange too because some of those protosses are really coming out of nowhere. Like, Has and Mana showed up one time each in really remarkable ways.
On September 17 2018 03:00 KR_4EVR wrote: All year the Protoss hopes have proved very unstable.
Classic 3-0 Serral and then got 4-0 by Rogue in the finals at Katowice and it did even not look like Classic. After disecting SpeciaL 3-0, sOs got 4-1 by Scarlett at Pyeongchang and it did not even look like sOs. Exhausted even weeks after breaking soO's curse by removing him from the semifinals 4-3, Stats crubled 2-4 to Maru in GSL Season 1 and it did not even look like Stats playing. Despite barely winning Super Tournament 1 4-3 vs Dark, Stats did not even make playoffs of GSL Season 2. Because of who? Byun of all people! Zest 4-3 TY in GSL Season 2 just to get 4-0 by Maru in the finals. At some point Zest did not even look like he was trying. Stats 3-1 Maru in GSLvWorld just to fail to Serral's 4-3. Neeb 2-4 TY in GSL Season 3, but where was he all year in WCS Circuit where Serral trounced Protoss left and right: Serral ended Showtime's run 4-2 at Leipzig, broke Mana 4-2 at Austin, busted Has 4-1 in Valencia, and didn't even have anyone but Zerg to contend with at Montreal.. Where was Neeb when his race needed him most?
It's official. This year is all about TvZ. Even hardcore believers like me who want sOs to win GSL Super Tournament 2 and don't think the Protoss stand a chance at Blizzcon this year.
I can see your point, but last year Zerg had the same problem. Out of the fifteen premier tournaments BEFORE Blizzcon, Only three were won by a Zerg, two of them were Rogue and one was Elazer. But the finals for some reason ended up being a ZvZ. Edit: It was much the same way the year before that, in 2016, out of all the premier tournaments that year, only three were won by Terrans. ByuN still won Blizzcon.
On September 17 2018 03:00 KR_4EVR wrote: All year the Protoss hopes have proved very unstable.
Classic 3-0 Serral and then got 4-0 by Rogue in the finals at Katowice and it did even not look like Classic. After disecting SpeciaL 3-0, sOs got 4-1 by Scarlett at Pyeongchang and it did not even look like sOs. Exhausted even weeks after breaking soO's curse by removing him from the semifinals 4-3, Stats crubled 2-4 to Maru in GSL Season 1 and it did not even look like Stats playing. Despite barely winning Super Tournament 1 4-3 vs Dark, Stats did not even make playoffs of GSL Season 2. Because of who? Byun of all people! Zest 4-3 TY in GSL Season 2 just to get 4-0 by Maru in the finals. At some point Zest did not even look like he was trying. Stats 3-1 Maru in GSLvWorld just to fail to Serral's 4-3. Neeb 2-4 TY in GSL Season 3, but where was he all year in WCS Circuit where Serral trounced Protoss left and right: Serral ended Showtime's run 4-2 at Leipzig, broke Mana 4-2 at Austin, busted Has 4-1 in Valencia, and didn't even have anyone but Zerg to contend with at Montreal.. Where was Neeb when his race needed him most?
It's official. This year is all about TvZ. Even hardcore believers like me who want sOs to win GSL Super Tournament 2 and don't think the Protoss stand a chance at Blizzcon this year.
I can see your point, but last year Zerg had the same problem. Out of the fifteen premier tournaments BEFORE Blizzcon, Only three were won by a Zerg, two of them were Rogue and one was Elazer. But the finals for some reason ended up being a ZvZ. Edit: It was much the same way the year before that, in 2016, out of all the premier tournaments that year, only three were won by Terrans. ByuN still won Blizzcon.
This means a Protoss will win Blizzcon now!? Zest is best
On September 17 2018 03:00 KR_4EVR wrote: All year the Protoss hopes have proved very unstable.
Classic 3-0 Serral and then got 4-0 by Rogue in the finals at Katowice and it did even not look like Classic. After disecting SpeciaL 3-0, sOs got 4-1 by Scarlett at Pyeongchang and it did not even look like sOs. Exhausted even weeks after breaking soO's curse by removing him from the semifinals 4-3, Stats crubled 2-4 to Maru in GSL Season 1 and it did not even look like Stats playing. Despite barely winning Super Tournament 1 4-3 vs Dark, Stats did not even make playoffs of GSL Season 2. Because of who? Byun of all people! Zest 4-3 TY in GSL Season 2 just to get 4-0 by Maru in the finals. At some point Zest did not even look like he was trying. Stats 3-1 Maru in GSLvWorld just to fail to Serral's 4-3. Neeb 2-4 TY in GSL Season 3, but where was he all year in WCS Circuit where Serral trounced Protoss left and right: Serral ended Showtime's run 4-2 at Leipzig, broke Mana 4-2 at Austin, busted Has 4-1 in Valencia, and didn't even have anyone but Zerg to contend with at Montreal.. Where was Neeb when his race needed him most?
It's official. This year is all about TvZ. Even hardcore believers like me who want sOs to win GSL Super Tournament 2 and don't think the Protoss stand a chance at Blizzcon this year.
I can see your point, but last year Zerg had the same problem. Out of the fifteen premier tournaments BEFORE Blizzcon, Only three were won by a Zerg, two of them were Rogue and one was Elazer. But the finals for some reason ended up being a ZvZ. Edit: It was much the same way the year before that, in 2016, out of all the premier tournaments that year, only three were won by Terrans. ByuN still won Blizzcon.
This means a Protoss will win Blizzcon now!? Zest is best
I hope so. Although I'm a sOs fan, any protoss winning would be nice, also there's been a zerg in every final since 2013.
People comparing Serral to Maru are idiots, or at least, very new to the scene. They dont realize the difference between Korea and the rest of the world.
There is literally no way that Serral could have won 3 gsl in a row, but on the other hand, I would bet a huge amount of money that Maru would have won every WCS he played in.
Thats why I hate region lock, not only did it kill my favorite competition (ProLeague), but it made people forget how big the gap is between koreans and foreigners.
The people that think Serral is at the same level as Maru are probably the one who also think that NA will do well in worlds (in LoL).
On September 17 2018 03:00 KR_4EVR wrote: All year the Protoss hopes have proved very unstable.
Classic 3-0 Serral and then got 4-0 by Rogue in the finals at Katowice and it did even not look like Classic. After disecting SpeciaL 3-0, sOs got 4-1 by Scarlett at Pyeongchang and it did not even look like sOs. Exhausted even weeks after breaking soO's curse by removing him from the semifinals 4-3, Stats crubled 2-4 to Maru in GSL Season 1 and it did not even look like Stats playing. Despite barely winning Super Tournament 1 4-3 vs Dark, Stats did not even make playoffs of GSL Season 2. Because of who? Byun of all people! Zest 4-3 TY in GSL Season 2 just to get 4-0 by Maru in the finals. At some point Zest did not even look like he was trying. Stats 3-1 Maru in GSLvWorld just to fail to Serral's 4-3. Neeb 2-4 TY in GSL Season 3, but where was he all year in WCS Circuit where Serral trounced Protoss left and right: Serral ended Showtime's run 4-2 at Leipzig, broke Mana 4-2 at Austin, busted Has 4-1 in Valencia, and didn't even have anyone but Zerg to contend with at Montreal.. Where was Neeb when his race needed him most?
It's official. This year is all about TvZ. Even hardcore believers like me who want sOs to win GSL Super Tournament 2 and don't think the Protoss stand a chance at Blizzcon this year.
Where was Neeb when his race needed him most?
2016-Wins KeSPA Cup, the first foreigner to win a Korean SC2 tournament. 2017-Wins 3 WCSs in a year, the first foreigner to do that. 2018-In his only GSL run, gets to ro4.
I DON'T KNOW, KEV
Edit: And obviously, massive congratulations to Maru and Jin Air for pulling this off. It's unprecedented. Maru now must be the overwhelming favorite to win Blizzcon.
On September 17 2018 10:58 alestormsabaton1994 wrote: People comparing Serral to Maru are idiots, or at least, very new to the scene. They dont realize the difference between Korea and the rest of the world.
There is literally no way that Serral could have won 3 gsl in a row, but on the other hand, I would bet a huge amount of money that Maru would have won every WCS he played in.
Thats why I hate region lock, not only did it kill my favorite competition (ProLeague), but it made people forget how big the gap is between koreans and foreigners.
The people that think Serral is at the same level as Maru are probably the one who also think that NA will do well in worlds (in LoL).
whoa there 1 post; it's only natural to compare the two winningest players in a given year...
On September 17 2018 10:58 alestormsabaton1994 wrote: People comparing Serral to Maru are idiots, or at least, very new to the scene. They dont realize the difference between Korea and the rest of the world.
There is literally no way that Serral could have won 3 gsl in a row, but on the other hand, I would bet a huge amount of money that Maru would have won every WCS he played in.
Thats why I hate region lock, not only did it kill my favorite competition (ProLeague), but it made people forget how big the gap is between koreans and foreigners.
The people that think Serral is at the same level as Maru are probably the one who also think that NA will do well in worlds (in LoL).
Region lock has caused many bad things but it really had no effect on the end of Proleague.
Both Maru and TY were practically equal. As a TY fan I'm very proud with his counter rush play and even the longest match where he bravely played long macro game with Maru at this phase of his career. Honestly I expected another choke, typical for TY and to be turned from 2:0 to 2:4, but they played amazing until the very end. Yeah, at the end TY was too greedy and got no tanks in time, but it has its own strategic reasons. Unfortunately nobody will discuss TY because of the great record of Maru. May be TY and sOs will never get Code S, after so many years on top... :/
whoa there 1 post; it's only natural to compare the two winningest players in a given year...
People probably want to compare cuz it's Serral the only foreign hope in 2018, but comparing Major league and Minor league isn't natural for veterans...
whoa there 1 post; it's only natural to compare the two winningest players in a given year...
People probably want to compare cuz it's Serral the only foreign hope in 2018, but comparing Major league and Minor league isn't natural for veterans...
But Reynor almost beat Maru in RO16, and Serral beat Reynor in WCS...
P.S. I'm just messing around at this point, I think Maru is probably better than Serral, but both have dominated their respective circuits this year in ways in that are historically unparalleled. MVP may have been better in his prime, but even he didn't hat trick the GSL.
On September 17 2018 17:57 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:
whoa there 1 post; it's only natural to compare the two winningest players in a given year...
People probably want to compare cuz it's Serral the only foreign hope in 2018, but comparing Major league and Minor league isn't natural for veterans...
But Reynor almost beat Maru in RO16, and Serral beat Reynor in WCS...
P.S. I'm just messing around at this point, I think Maru is probably better than Serral, but both have dominated their respective circuits this year in ways in that are historically unparalleled. MVP may have been better in his prime, but even he didn't hat trick the GSL.
Honestly Serral is a sick player no denying that..i think the problem that most people (including myself) have with the whining about why no Serral news etc is that you cant put what Maru did this year even in the same conversation as what Serral is doing. Weve seen plenty of players dominate in WCS NA EU in history. It is legitimately a minor league relative to code S. You have multiple players not even qualifying for code S that are contenders to win EU or NA. Winning 3 code S in a row is an absolutely insane historical achievement. Its never happened in SC2.. 2 only happened one time and the reason for that is the competition is the top of the top players in the world. Again not hating on Serral at all he will be competive at blizzcon but people need to accept that its not a comparable achievement.
On September 17 2018 17:57 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:
whoa there 1 post; it's only natural to compare the two winningest players in a given year...
People probably want to compare cuz it's Serral the only foreign hope in 2018, but comparing Major league and Minor league isn't natural for veterans...
But Reynor almost beat Maru in RO16, and Serral beat Reynor in WCS...
Everyone talks about how Reynor almost beat Maru but not about Leenock, Patience, or Zanster that did the same.
On September 17 2018 10:58 alestormsabaton1994 wrote: People comparing Serral to Maru are idiots, or at least, very new to the scene. They dont realize the difference between Korea and the rest of the world.
There is literally no way that Serral could have won 3 gsl in a row, but on the other hand, I would bet a huge amount of money that Maru would have won every WCS he played in.
Thats why I hate region lock, not only did it kill my favorite competition (ProLeague), but it made people forget how big the gap is between koreans and foreigners.
The people that think Serral is at the same level as Maru are probably the one who also think that NA will do well in worlds (in LoL).
well said. people forget that naniwa won MLG dallas without dropping a single map until the finals, before the korean invasion. he was very dominant. there were always some foreigners who were head and shoulders above the other foreigners. unlike serral though, naniwa continued to prove himself against koreans and showed that he belonged. serral's sample size is too small due to region lock. serral is definitely good, but winning 3 GSLs in a row good? he needs to compete in a GSL first
edit: another sad factor to consider is that the region lock killed the korean scene. so rather than elevating foreign level of play to match koreans, it instead lowered overall level of korean play by killing any chance for new players to break in by destroying all the teamhouses. theres not really any new players coming in now - its all the same faces in the GSL now and when they retire for military its over
Even without history being made, I think this was one of the best GSL finals in a very long time. The games were awesome, the tension was real, and the final do-or-die map was a nail-biting, all-on-the-line, final push - reminiscent of MVP vs Squirtle. Loved it!
On September 17 2018 10:58 alestormsabaton1994 wrote: People comparing Serral to Maru are idiots, or at least, very new to the scene. They dont realize the difference between Korea and the rest of the world.
There is literally no way that Serral could have won 3 gsl in a row, but on the other hand, I would bet a huge amount of money that Maru would have won every WCS he played in.
Thats why I hate region lock, not only did it kill my favorite competition (ProLeague), but it made people forget how big the gap is between koreans and foreigners.
The people that think Serral is at the same level as Maru are probably the one who also think that NA will do well in worlds (in LoL).
Region lock has caused many bad things but it really had no effect on the end of Proleague.
I would argue that it did.
Region lock didnt only kicked out Koreans from participating to WCS AMerica and Europe, but more importantly, it kicked them from participating to ALL non-korean tournamnents.
And at the time, there was a lot of other tournaments, like a bunch of IEMs, Dream Hacks etc...
That affected heavily the viability of becoming a korean progamer for every korean that did not have a good shot at winning GSL, because there was simply no way they could earn money. Which led to a lot of retirements, and a huge drop in popularity of sc2 in Korea. No popularity= no sponsor for ProLeague
On September 17 2018 10:58 alestormsabaton1994 wrote: People comparing Serral to Maru are idiots, or at least, very new to the scene. They dont realize the difference between Korea and the rest of the world.
There is literally no way that Serral could have won 3 gsl in a row, but on the other hand, I would bet a huge amount of money that Maru would have won every WCS he played in.
Thats why I hate region lock, not only did it kill my favorite competition (ProLeague), but it made people forget how big the gap is between koreans and foreigners.
The people that think Serral is at the same level as Maru are probably the one who also think that NA will do well in worlds (in LoL).
well said. people forget that naniwa won MLG dallas without dropping a single map until the finals, before the korean invasion. he was very dominant. there were always some foreigners who were head and shoulders above the other foreigners. unlike serral though, naniwa continued to prove himself against koreans and showed that he belonged. serral's sample size is too small due to region lock. serral is definitely good, but winning 3 GSLs in a row good? he needs to compete in a GSL first
edit: another sad factor to consider is that the region lock killed the korean scene. so rather than elevating foreign level of play to match koreans, it instead lowered overall level of korean play by killing any chance for new players to break in by destroying all the teamhouses. theres not really any new players coming in now - its all the same faces in the GSL now and when they retire for military its over
Ill be honest, I was never a fan of foreigners, simply because I wanted to see the best, and the people who work the hardest be rewarded (and lets face it, Koreans work way harder than any other country not only in video games, my wife is korean and she told me a lot of stories about SK). And even though I hated Naniwa because of who he is, that I didnt like Stephano nor Neeb, I gotta give it to them, they had the balls to compete with the best, and beat them on multiple occasions.
Which is why I dont respect Serral. Yes he is great, but he prefers making EZ money in a minor league, than trying to be the best, and be a part of sc2 history.
Im not saying that unlike Serral, I wouldnt choose money over fame, because thats a lot of money, but i cant simply respect someone whos too afraid to face the best of the best.
On September 17 2018 17:57 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:
whoa there 1 post; it's only natural to compare the two winningest players in a given year...
People probably want to compare cuz it's Serral the only foreign hope in 2018, but comparing Major league and Minor league isn't natural for veterans...
But Reynor almost beat Maru in RO16, and Serral beat Reynor in WCS...
P.S. I'm just messing around at this point, I think Maru is probably better than Serral, but both have dominated their respective circuits this year in ways in that are historically unparalleled. MVP may have been better in his prime, but even he didn't hat trick the GSL.
Honestly Serral is a sick player no denying that..i think the problem that most people (including myself) have with the whining about why no Serral news etc is that you cant put what Maru did this year even in the same conversation as what Serral is doing. Weve seen plenty of players dominate in WCS NA EU in history. It is legitimately a minor league relative to code S. You have multiple players not even qualifying for code S that are contenders to win EU or NA. Winning 3 code S in a row is an absolutely insane historical achievement. Its never happened in SC2.. 2 only happened one time and the reason for that is the competition is the top of the top players in the world. Again not hating on Serral at all he will be competive at blizzcon but people need to accept that its not a comparable achievement.
This so much. GSL code S is a tournament were even the worse players would have a shot at making a good run in a foreign tournament. To win a code S you do not only have to be great, but also beat many others that are great. To win a WCS you have to maybe beat a few good opponents. The difference is really big. For example, to get out of group stages in the RO16 maru needed to best Neeb and Reynor to 'only' reach RO8. Those two are basically the very best of the best in WCS. In other words, winning a WCS is comparable to reaching the ~RO8 in GSL. Its mot an exact comparison but it really does show that GSL is so much harder. Winning all 3 GSLs is insane and nobody has ever gotten close to that. Winning all 4 WCS tournaments is really huge too, but nowhere close to winning 3 GSLs.
On September 17 2018 17:57 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:
whoa there 1 post; it's only natural to compare the two winningest players in a given year...
People probably want to compare cuz it's Serral the only foreign hope in 2018, but comparing Major league and Minor league isn't natural for veterans...
But Reynor almost beat Maru in RO16, and Serral beat Reynor in WCS...
P.S. I'm just messing around at this point, I think Maru is probably better than Serral, but both have dominated their respective circuits this year in ways in that are historically unparalleled. MVP may have been better in his prime, but even he didn't hat trick the GSL.
Honestly Serral is a sick player no denying that..i think the problem that most people (including myself) have with the whining about why no Serral news etc is that you cant put what Maru did this year even in the same conversation as what Serral is doing. Weve seen plenty of players dominate in WCS NA EU in history. It is legitimately a minor league relative to code S. You have multiple players not even qualifying for code S that are contenders to win EU or NA. Winning 3 code S in a row is an absolutely insane historical achievement. Its never happened in SC2.. 2 only happened one time and the reason for that is the competition is the top of the top players in the world. Again not hating on Serral at all he will be competive at blizzcon but people need to accept that its not a comparable achievement.
This so much. GSL code S is a tournament were even the worse players would have a shot at making a good run in a foreign tournament. To win a code S you do not only have to be great, but also beat many others that are great. To win a WCS you have to maybe beat a few good opponents. The difference is really big. For example, to get out of group stages in the RO16 maru needed to best Neeb and Reynor to 'only' reach RO8. Those two are basically the very best of the best in WCS. In other words, winning a WCS is comparable to reaching the ~RO8 in GSL. Its mot an exact comparison but it really does show that GSL is so much harder. Winning all 3 GSLs is insane and nobody has ever gotten close to that. Winning all 4 WCS tournaments is really huge too, but nowhere close to winning 3 GSLs.
I totally and completely agree with this, I think that there should be a sort of region lock on circuit as well. If they could do like three ladders, Circuit, Korea, and Global, where the foreigners can only participate in Circuit, Koreans in Korea, and Everyone in Global (obviously) But have six come out of circuit,six out of Korea, and four out of Global. I think the global events should be all of the IEM events, WESG, GSL vs. the World, and the Super Tournaments maybe?
On September 17 2018 17:57 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:
whoa there 1 post; it's only natural to compare the two winningest players in a given year...
People probably want to compare cuz it's Serral the only foreign hope in 2018, but comparing Major league and Minor league isn't natural for veterans...
But Reynor almost beat Maru in RO16, and Serral beat Reynor in WCS...
P.S. I'm just messing around at this point, I think Maru is probably better than Serral, but both have dominated their respective circuits this year in ways in that are historically unparalleled. MVP may have been better in his prime, but even he didn't hat trick the GSL.
Honestly Serral is a sick player no denying that..i think the problem that most people (including myself) have with the whining about why no Serral news etc is that you cant put what Maru did this year even in the same conversation as what Serral is doing. Weve seen plenty of players dominate in WCS NA EU in history. It is legitimately a minor league relative to code S. You have multiple players not even qualifying for code S that are contenders to win EU or NA. Winning 3 code S in a row is an absolutely insane historical achievement. Its never happened in SC2.. 2 only happened one time and the reason for that is the competition is the top of the top players in the world. Again not hating on Serral at all he will be competive at blizzcon but people need to accept that its not a comparable achievement.
This so much. GSL code S is a tournament were even the worse players would have a shot at making a good run in a foreign tournament. To win a code S you do not only have to be great, but also beat many others that are great. To win a WCS you have to maybe beat a few good opponents. The difference is really big. For example, to get out of group stages in the RO16 maru needed to best Neeb and Reynor to 'only' reach RO8. Those two are basically the very best of the best in WCS. In other words, winning a WCS is comparable to reaching the ~RO8 in GSL. Its mot an exact comparison but it really does show that GSL is so much harder. Winning all 3 GSLs is insane and nobody has ever gotten close to that. Winning all 4 WCS tournaments is really huge too, but nowhere close to winning 3 GSLs.
I totally and completely agree with this, I think that there should be a sort of region lock on circuit as well. If they could do like three ladders, Circuit, Korea, and Global, where the foreigners can only participate in Circuit, Koreans in Korea, and Everyone in Global (obviously) But have six come out of circuit,six out of Korea, and four out of Global. I think the global events should be all of the IEM events, WESG, GSL vs. the World, and the Super Tournaments maybe?
No. Make it 4 global tournaments like IEM, WESG, and two GSL vs World type tournaments, one in Korea and one in one of the Circuit stops like Jonkoping or smh. And the winners get seeds to blizzcon like now. Keep super tournament for Korea
On September 16 2018 06:39 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote: And fun fact about blizzcon is that all winners were unexpected except someone like ByuN in 2016.
Since HotS,
2013 - sOs (12th)
2014 - Life (14th)
2015 - sOs (14th)
2016 - ByuN (KR 3rd)
2017 - Rogue (KR 8th)
even ByuN started rising in late 2016, he used to be someone gets eliminated in Code A in early 2016.
All foreign fans hope Maru vs Serral as blizzcon final
Most of Korean fans think Maru will win this blizzcon
But the actual winner can be someone that nobody expected. :D
Maru also underperform when he played in foreing tournament, outside of tournament in the relatively near China I don't think he ever got to a final of a foreing tournament. Of course JAGW has never been keen to send their player abroard, but he still entered in quite a few over the years and underperformed quite a bit, lets wait and see but it could be harder outside of the studio environnement where he shine.
Pretty sure maru got to finals at that one iem tournament and lost to life.
it's not ridiculous for someone to say they don't think he can it is ridiculous for someone to say they know he can't.
which is what people are doing when they use it as the reason that maru is > serral. they are taking a hypothetical - something that hasn't actually happened, and using it to support their argument.
not to mention, even at the maru level, there is certainly a lot of luck involved in winning 3 GSLs in a row.
basically it's not really fair to call either one better than the other until they start losing (quick note - the only one to lose in a tournament that the other one was in, since wesg, is maru). well, at least I think that's true. feel free to correct me on that if it's wrong
While both players accomplished amazing feats this year, I think they're both starting to look mortal. Both of their finals victories were super close and Serral in particular had three separate matches in his last WCS that came down to the wire. Gonna go out on a limb here and predict that neither of them win Blizzcon and one of them makes a surprise exit in a shocking RO16 upset.
On September 17 2018 17:57 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:
whoa there 1 post; it's only natural to compare the two winningest players in a given year...
People probably want to compare cuz it's Serral the only foreign hope in 2018, but comparing Major league and Minor league isn't natural for veterans...
But Reynor almost beat Maru in RO16, and Serral beat Reynor in WCS...
P.S. I'm just messing around at this point, I think Maru is probably better than Serral, but both have dominated their respective circuits this year in ways in that are historically unparalleled. MVP may have been better in his prime, but even he didn't hat trick the GSL.
Honestly Serral is a sick player no denying that..i think the problem that most people (including myself) have with the whining about why no Serral news etc is that you cant put what Maru did this year even in the same conversation as what Serral is doing. Weve seen plenty of players dominate in WCS NA EU in history. It is legitimately a minor league relative to code S. You have multiple players not even qualifying for code S that are contenders to win EU or NA. Winning 3 code S in a row is an absolutely insane historical achievement. Its never happened in SC2.. 2 only happened one time and the reason for that is the competition is the top of the top players in the world. Again not hating on Serral at all he will be competive at blizzcon but people need to accept that its not a comparable achievement.
this is my POV. we've seen single players stand out from the international crowd but never has 1 player so separated themselves from the Korean pack like this.
On September 17 2018 17:57 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:
whoa there 1 post; it's only natural to compare the two winningest players in a given year...
People probably want to compare cuz it's Serral the only foreign hope in 2018, but comparing Major league and Minor league isn't natural for veterans...
But Reynor almost beat Maru in RO16, and Serral beat Reynor in WCS...
P.S. I'm just messing around at this point, I think Maru is probably better than Serral, but both have dominated their respective circuits this year in ways in that are historically unparalleled. MVP may have been better in his prime, but even he didn't hat trick the GSL.
Honestly Serral is a sick player no denying that..i think the problem that most people (including myself) have with the whining about why no Serral news etc is that you cant put what Maru did this year even in the same conversation as what Serral is doing. Weve seen plenty of players dominate in WCS NA EU in history. It is legitimately a minor league relative to code S. You have multiple players not even qualifying for code S that are contenders to win EU or NA. Winning 3 code S in a row is an absolutely insane historical achievement. Its never happened in SC2.. 2 only happened one time and the reason for that is the competition is the top of the top players in the world. Again not hating on Serral at all he will be competive at blizzcon but people need to accept that its not a comparable achievement.
this is my POV. we've seen single players stand out from the international crowd but never has 1 player so separated themselves from the Korean pack like this.
The reason why we have region lock is taht Koreans dominated WCS, ehm...
On September 17 2018 17:57 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:
whoa there 1 post; it's only natural to compare the two winningest players in a given year...
People probably want to compare cuz it's Serral the only foreign hope in 2018, but comparing Major league and Minor league isn't natural for veterans...
But Reynor almost beat Maru in RO16, and Serral beat Reynor in WCS...
P.S. I'm just messing around at this point, I think Maru is probably better than Serral, but both have dominated their respective circuits this year in ways in that are historically unparalleled. MVP may have been better in his prime, but even he didn't hat trick the GSL.
Honestly Serral is a sick player no denying that..i think the problem that most people (including myself) have with the whining about why no Serral news etc is that you cant put what Maru did this year even in the same conversation as what Serral is doing. Weve seen plenty of players dominate in WCS NA EU in history. It is legitimately a minor league relative to code S. You have multiple players not even qualifying for code S that are contenders to win EU or NA. Winning 3 code S in a row is an absolutely insane historical achievement. Its never happened in SC2.. 2 only happened one time and the reason for that is the competition is the top of the top players in the world. Again not hating on Serral at all he will be competive at blizzcon but people need to accept that its not a comparable achievement.
this is my POV. we've seen single players stand out from the international crowd but never has 1 player so separated themselves from the Korean pack like this.
I'd argue that soO got really close to this same achievement. It's very unfortunate for him that 2nd means so little considering his consecutive runs.
On September 17 2018 10:58 alestormsabaton1994 wrote: People comparing Serral to Maru are idiots, or at least, very new to the scene. They dont realize the difference between Korea and the rest of the world.
There is literally no way that Serral could have won 3 gsl in a row, but on the other hand, I would bet a huge amount of money that Maru would have won every WCS he played in.
Thats why I hate region lock, not only did it kill my favorite competition (ProLeague), but it made people forget how big the gap is between koreans and foreigners.
The people that think Serral is at the same level as Maru are probably the one who also think that NA will do well in worlds (in LoL).
well said. people forget that naniwa won MLG dallas without dropping a single map until the finals, before the korean invasion. he was very dominant. there were always some foreigners who were head and shoulders above the other foreigners. unlike serral though, naniwa continued to prove himself against koreans and showed that he belonged. serral's sample size is too small due to region lock. serral is definitely good, but winning 3 GSLs in a row good? he needs to compete in a GSL first
edit: another sad factor to consider is that the region lock killed the korean scene. so rather than elevating foreign level of play to match koreans, it instead lowered overall level of korean play by killing any chance for new players to break in by destroying all the teamhouses. theres not really any new players coming in now - its all the same faces in the GSL now and when they retire for military its over
Ill be honest, I was never a fan of foreigners, simply because I wanted to see the best, and the people who work the hardest be rewarded (and lets face it, Koreans work way harder than any other country not only in video games, my wife is korean and she told me a lot of stories about SK). And even though I hated Naniwa because of who he is, that I didnt like Stephano nor Neeb, I gotta give it to them, they had the balls to compete with the best, and beat them on multiple occasions.
Which is why I dont respect Serral. Yes he is great, but he prefers making EZ money in a minor league, than trying to be the best, and be a part of sc2 history.
Im not saying that unlike Serral, I wouldnt choose money over fame, because thats a lot of money, but i cant simply respect someone whos too afraid to face the best of the best.
You never liked foreigners, you hate Naniwa, you don't like Stephano nor Neeb, and you don't respect Serral because you think he's afraid of competition.
On September 17 2018 17:57 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:
whoa there 1 post; it's only natural to compare the two winningest players in a given year...
People probably want to compare cuz it's Serral the only foreign hope in 2018, but comparing Major league and Minor league isn't natural for veterans...
But Reynor almost beat Maru in RO16, and Serral beat Reynor in WCS...
P.S. I'm just messing around at this point, I think Maru is probably better than Serral, but both have dominated their respective circuits this year in ways in that are historically unparalleled. MVP may have been better in his prime, but even he didn't hat trick the GSL.
Honestly Serral is a sick player no denying that..i think the problem that most people (including myself) have with the whining about why no Serral news etc is that you cant put what Maru did this year even in the same conversation as what Serral is doing. Weve seen plenty of players dominate in WCS NA EU in history. It is legitimately a minor league relative to code S. You have multiple players not even qualifying for code S that are contenders to win EU or NA. Winning 3 code S in a row is an absolutely insane historical achievement. Its never happened in SC2.. 2 only happened one time and the reason for that is the competition is the top of the top players in the world. Again not hating on Serral at all he will be competive at blizzcon but people need to accept that its not a comparable achievement.
this is my POV. we've seen single players stand out from the international crowd but never has 1 player so separated themselves from the Korean pack like this.
I'd argue that soO got really close to this same achievement. It's very unfortunate for him that 2nd means so little considering his consecutive runs.
soO's four finals is probably the most impressive feat in sc2. The only thing that maybe rivals it is Maru's threepeat (maybe). Shame people don't even put him in the GOAT conversation, most people don't even consider him the best zerg which is worse.
On September 17 2018 17:57 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:
whoa there 1 post; it's only natural to compare the two winningest players in a given year...
People probably want to compare cuz it's Serral the only foreign hope in 2018, but comparing Major league and Minor league isn't natural for veterans...
But Reynor almost beat Maru in RO16, and Serral beat Reynor in WCS...
P.S. I'm just messing around at this point, I think Maru is probably better than Serral, but both have dominated their respective circuits this year in ways in that are historically unparalleled. MVP may have been better in his prime, but even he didn't hat trick the GSL.
Honestly Serral is a sick player no denying that..i think the problem that most people (including myself) have with the whining about why no Serral news etc is that you cant put what Maru did this year even in the same conversation as what Serral is doing. Weve seen plenty of players dominate in WCS NA EU in history. It is legitimately a minor league relative to code S. You have multiple players not even qualifying for code S that are contenders to win EU or NA. Winning 3 code S in a row is an absolutely insane historical achievement. Its never happened in SC2.. 2 only happened one time and the reason for that is the competition is the top of the top players in the world. Again not hating on Serral at all he will be competive at blizzcon but people need to accept that its not a comparable achievement.
this is my POV. we've seen single players stand out from the international crowd but never has 1 player so separated themselves from the Korean pack like this.
I'd argue that soO got really close to this same achievement. It's very unfortunate for him that 2nd means so little considering his consecutive runs.
Yeah it really does suck. Such an incredible run but it will never be looked at as super dominant or bonjwa-esque because EVERY time(except for the one kespa cup I think?) he fell just short. Not even just in that 2014 run, if SoO had won half the top tournies he got 2nd in he would possibly be considered the best zerg of all time.
On September 17 2018 17:57 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:
whoa there 1 post; it's only natural to compare the two winningest players in a given year...
People probably want to compare cuz it's Serral the only foreign hope in 2018, but comparing Major league and Minor league isn't natural for veterans...
But Reynor almost beat Maru in RO16, and Serral beat Reynor in WCS...
P.S. I'm just messing around at this point, I think Maru is probably better than Serral, but both have dominated their respective circuits this year in ways in that are historically unparalleled. MVP may have been better in his prime, but even he didn't hat trick the GSL.
Honestly Serral is a sick player no denying that..i think the problem that most people (including myself) have with the whining about why no Serral news etc is that you cant put what Maru did this year even in the same conversation as what Serral is doing. Weve seen plenty of players dominate in WCS NA EU in history. It is legitimately a minor league relative to code S. You have multiple players not even qualifying for code S that are contenders to win EU or NA. Winning 3 code S in a row is an absolutely insane historical achievement. Its never happened in SC2.. 2 only happened one time and the reason for that is the competition is the top of the top players in the world. Again not hating on Serral at all he will be competive at blizzcon but people need to accept that its not a comparable achievement.
this is my POV. we've seen single players stand out from the international crowd but never has 1 player so separated themselves from the Korean pack like this.
I'd argue that soO got really close to this same achievement. It's very unfortunate for him that 2nd means so little considering his consecutive runs.
Yah I can definitely agree here. SoO is also an absolute beast wonder if he has the best all time winrate in code S matches overall? That alone has to put u in the talk for best zerg in history..im not sure about his current form but would be great to see him win a blizzcon.
On September 17 2018 17:57 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:
whoa there 1 post; it's only natural to compare the two winningest players in a given year...
People probably want to compare cuz it's Serral the only foreign hope in 2018, but comparing Major league and Minor league isn't natural for veterans...
But Reynor almost beat Maru in RO16, and Serral beat Reynor in WCS...
P.S. I'm just messing around at this point, I think Maru is probably better than Serral, but both have dominated their respective circuits this year in ways in that are historically unparalleled. MVP may have been better in his prime, but even he didn't hat trick the GSL.
Honestly Serral is a sick player no denying that..i think the problem that most people (including myself) have with the whining about why no Serral news etc is that you cant put what Maru did this year even in the same conversation as what Serral is doing. Weve seen plenty of players dominate in WCS NA EU in history. It is legitimately a minor league relative to code S. You have multiple players not even qualifying for code S that are contenders to win EU or NA. Winning 3 code S in a row is an absolutely insane historical achievement. Its never happened in SC2.. 2 only happened one time and the reason for that is the competition is the top of the top players in the world. Again not hating on Serral at all he will be competive at blizzcon but people need to accept that its not a comparable achievement.
this is my POV. we've seen single players stand out from the international crowd but never has 1 player so separated themselves from the Korean pack like this.
I'd argue that soO got really close to this same achievement. It's very unfortunate for him that 2nd means so little considering his consecutive runs.
Yah I can definitely agree here. SoO is also an absolute beast wonder if he has the best all time winrate in code S matches overall? That alone has to put u in the talk for best zerg in history..im not sure about his current form but would be great to see him win a blizzcon.
soO certainly has a claim on best zerg in history, he may lack in gold medals but he has the moral highground. Also lol at anyone who says Mvp was better in his prime, he wasn't. Be it in terms of pure skill or skill compared to his peers, he dropped to code A multiple times while people were saying he was the GOAT, meanwhile Maru swept and entire season of code S, with a brilliant HOTS career to back it up.
On September 18 2018 12:49 alestormsabaton1994 wrote:
On September 18 2018 01:02 fishjie wrote:
On September 17 2018 10:58 alestormsabaton1994 wrote: People comparing Serral to Maru are idiots, or at least, very new to the scene. They dont realize the difference between Korea and the rest of the world.
There is literally no way that Serral could have won 3 gsl in a row, but on the other hand, I would bet a huge amount of money that Maru would have won every WCS he played in.
Thats why I hate region lock, not only did it kill my favorite competition (ProLeague), but it made people forget how big the gap is between koreans and foreigners.
The people that think Serral is at the same level as Maru are probably the one who also think that NA will do well in worlds (in LoL).
well said. people forget that naniwa won MLG dallas without dropping a single map until the finals, before the korean invasion. he was very dominant. there were always some foreigners who were head and shoulders above the other foreigners. unlike serral though, naniwa continued to prove himself against koreans and showed that he belonged. serral's sample size is too small due to region lock. serral is definitely good, but winning 3 GSLs in a row good? he needs to compete in a GSL first
edit: another sad factor to consider is that the region lock killed the korean scene. so rather than elevating foreign level of play to match koreans, it instead lowered overall level of korean play by killing any chance for new players to break in by destroying all the teamhouses. theres not really any new players coming in now - its all the same faces in the GSL now and when they retire for military its over
Ill be honest, I was never a fan of foreigners, simply because I wanted to see the best, and the people who work the hardest be rewarded (and lets face it, Koreans work way harder than any other country not only in video games, my wife is korean and she told me a lot of stories about SK). And even though I hated Naniwa because of who he is, that I didnt like Stephano nor Neeb, I gotta give it to them, they had the balls to compete with the best, and beat them on multiple occasions.
Which is why I dont respect Serral. Yes he is great, but he prefers making EZ money in a minor league, than trying to be the best, and be a part of sc2 history.
Im not saying that unlike Serral, I wouldnt choose money over fame, because thats a lot of money, but i cant simply respect someone whos too afraid to face the best of the best.
You never liked foreigners, you hate Naniwa, you don't like Stephano nor Neeb, and you don't respect Serral because you think he's afraid of competition.
You are a mess.
And how so?
It's easy to call name, but can you try to at least back it up?
I think it fairly obvious why people would not like Naniwa, and I have the right to prefer the highest competition over the local one. Can you explain why i'm a mess or you will just act like a 12yo and call name online?
On September 26 2018 14:33 Drfilip wrote: Now we just have to wait and see if Maru can get to his 4th consecutive code S finals or if he will be worse than soO, in that regard.
What does it mean?
And it seems to me that some poeple went tooooooooooooooo far about Serral/Maru. This is madness to deny a miracle.
On September 26 2018 14:33 Drfilip wrote: Now we just have to wait and see if Maru can get to his 4th consecutive code S finals or if he will be worse than soO, in that regard.
EPT
Maru made StarCraft II history in Seoul's FreecUP studio, defeating 
I feel like he's the only one who can go toe-to-toe with Maru in terms of micro and maneuvering.
