The GSL Code S quarterfinals began with a historic achievement as Neeb defeated Rogue to become the first non-Korean player to reach the Code S semifinals since Jinro in 2011. The strong PvZ that allowed Neeb to advance from the RO16 was on display again as he dispatched Rogue in a convincing 3-1 rout.
While Neeb's unexpected ascent in Code S continued, Leenock's underdog run came to an end at the hands of TY. Leenock had looked reinvigorated and dangerous in the group stages, but was no match for this season's sleeper championship contender in TY (Leenock's recent medical issues further hindered his efforts).
Code S will resume on Sunday, Sep 02 4:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) with Maru vs GuMiho and Stats vs Zest
On August 30 2018 03:43 Woosixion wrote: one more gsl without a zerg champion, fear not friends we'll be getting our much needed buffs soon
Zerg has just won a tournament in Korea, calm your tits.
while i read this i realised that both zerg victories on korean soil this year where by non-korean players, maybe there is something going on here ^^
IEM PyeongChang may have been on Korean soil but it's not exactly like Scarlett had to battle herself through the best and brightest Korea has to offer to win that.
So, with the existence of Super Tournament 2, what exactly happens if Neeb winds up in Top 8 on both sides? Doe she just get in on the side where he's placed higher, or do the 2 9th place players do a playoff, a la Revival-Naniwa?
Hopefully they switch the days for the semi finals matches, or else Neeb would have to skip WCS Montreal. I assume they will.
On August 30 2018 03:27 dr3am_b3ing wrote: No zerg in the semis, pretty stoked about that
I mean, that's fairly par for the course in GSL. Did you know that there hasn't been a Zerg in the semis 4 times in LotV? Neither other race has missed one this expansion. Regardless of whatever success Zerg has elsewhere they do not do well in GSL.
Yeah Neeb ! I usually dont root for protosses (except White-ra) , but when Rogue started talking shit I really wanted Neeb to smack him down not just in words but in play. Well done Neeb.
On August 30 2018 03:43 Woosixion wrote: one more gsl without a zerg champion, fear not friends we'll be getting our much needed buffs soon
Zerg won IEM Katowice, GSL vs the World and every WCS circuit event and was in the finals of super tournament. The race is fine.
Judging balance based on circuit and a one weekend tournament does not seem logical to me. While i don't think race balance is bad, i still think zerg is just slightly bit weaker ... But not because Rogue and Leenock didn't win today.
That is an excellent result out of Neeb! People were saying that he had a bit of an easy run this GSL. However, Rogue is as bad of an opponent as one could get in the round of 8.
Also, for anyone wondering, the last time a foreigner made it to the GSL semis was one January 19th, 2011 when Jinro beat IdrA 3-1 in the ro8. That was the fourth ever GSL in all of StarCraft II.
On August 30 2018 05:28 Killmo wrote: That is an excellent result out of Neeb! People were saying that he had a bit of an easy run this GSL. However, Rogue is as bad of an opponent as one could get in the round of 8.
Also, for anyone wondering, the last time a foreigner made it to the GSL semis was one January 19th, 2011 when Jinro beat IdrA 3-1 in the ro8. That was the fourth ever GSL in all of StarCraft II.
again. We're talking about ro8 Rogue. Out of 7(I believe) he failed 7 times. Rogue in GSL RO8 is a pathetic shell of his former himself. And if he's playing out of his mind he's playing against his teammate who will dismantle him anyway(e.g. traditional Rogue vs. Maru)
I am not saying Neeb played bad, he had an easy route but he had to win something to get here.
Also, if you look at Aligulac, Rogue's ZvP form was pretty off but of course, online Rogue is not the same as offline Rogue. But then again, it is GSL ro8 Rogue.
On August 30 2018 03:43 Woosixion wrote: one more gsl without a zerg champion, fear not friends we'll be getting our much needed buffs soon
Zerg won IEM Katowice, GSL vs the World and every WCS circuit event and was in the finals of super tournament. The race is fine.
Judging balance based on circuit and a one weekend tournament does not seem logical to me. While i don't think race balance is bad, i still think zerg is just slightly bit weaker ... But not because Rogue and Leenock didn't win today.
IEM Katowice and GSL vs the World are 2 weekend tournaments. Last time I checked 1 + 1 is 2 and not 1.
On August 30 2018 04:13 Charoisaur wrote: Well played by Neeb, definitely goat foreigner now.
Does anyone know why Rogue went ultras in the last game? that looked weird
- Cause he was heavy on melee/armor ups.
- Fear effect of ultralisks: Showing one Ultralisk makes Neeb think about how many more are hidden behind in the fog or popping shortly after and can delay the decision to attack of Neeb, until he has better information.
- His army composition was heavy on DPS (ling/bane) but low on tankyness, which he added with ultralisks.
- He was on mass queen, so in a perfect world he could and would have healed a few ultralisks, while they tank damage, while lings and banes do the damage job.
- If there was a chance to still win the game i. e. in a base trade scenario, Ultralisk have a good pull back factor onto the main army of Neeb. Pylons for robotics can be killed and unpowered pretty quickly. Ultralisks counter all gateway units pretty well so that neeb had to pull back Immortals.
After all he couldn't have made a better decision, as Neebs army would have countered everthing else too. Even fenix were out to lift lurkers. No damage upgrade Hydras in low numbers as well don't do much against well upgraded Protoss units and need a pretty long time to get the two den upgrades before they get useful.
He was drawing dead at this point already due to other things that happened (or not have happened) before imo.
On August 30 2018 06:08 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: If Neeb skips WCS Montreal is it possible for him not to stay as Top 8 ?
Possible yes but not very likely. It'd have to be something like:
Showtime gets at least top 32 Has, Nerchio and Heromarine all get top 8 Elazer gets top 4 And someone from the 9-15 range makes the finals. Or two people from outside the current top 8 make the finals and then one of those other things doesn't have to happen.
All very possible individually but the likelihood of every one of those things coming together at once is still pretty low.
I think it's a pretty good chance they'll switch the schedule though so Neeb plays his GSL match on the 5th
On August 30 2018 04:21 Torrefy wrote: Hopefully they switch the days for the semi finals matches, or else Neeb would have to skip WCS Montreal. I assume they will.
On August 30 2018 03:27 dr3am_b3ing wrote: No zerg in the semis, pretty stoked about that
I mean, that's fairly par for the course in GSL. Did you know that there hasn't been a Zerg in the semis 4 times in LotV? Neither other race has missed one this expansion. Regardless of whatever success Zerg has elsewhere they do not do well in GSL.
I mean, it'd probably be a different story if they stopped match fixing right...
Felt like Rogue played like Mr. Bitter returning to Starcraft at HSC, talking about 2 base roach plays, at least in game 1. Very weird play overall. Neeb was sharp enough though.
On August 30 2018 11:58 Clazziquai10 wrote: Just hypothesizing, what happens in the highly unlikely scenario that Neeb wins GSL and qualifies for blizzcon through WCS Korea and WCS circuit?
He'll get placed twice in the bracket and have to face off against himself. Neeb vs Neeb, one of the hardest matches to call.
On August 30 2018 11:58 Clazziquai10 wrote: Just hypothesizing, what happens in the highly unlikely scenario that Neeb wins GSL and qualifies for blizzcon through WCS Korea and WCS circuit?
Rogue play was just horrible. Especially first game of the series was just...Lack of words. Leenock also could done better, but let's say that he's forgiven concidering that he left hospital on his own wish just to play. But Rogue...My god this season of Code S is just hard for Zerg fan like me...
People are really going hard at Rogue, but he planned the series and executed his builds. When you get bad build matchups it can make you look extremely weak and unprepared like Rogue looked at times. I think people are underselling how poorly his build choices matched up against Neeb's. Even the game where Rogue successfully went Muta showed it. Neeb was pulling out some slightly offbeat stuff that hit Rogue well most of the time (reviving DT double archon drop for example.)
On August 30 2018 14:41 Proko wrote: People are really going hard at Rogue, but he planned the series and executed his builds. When you get bad build matchups it can make you look extremely weak and unprepared like Rogue looked at times. I think people are underselling how poorly his build choices matched up against Neeb's. Even the game where Rogue successfully went Muta showed it. Neeb was pulling out some slightly offbeat stuff that hit Rogue well most of the time (reviving DT double archon drop for example.)
yeah, armchair experts trash-talking pros. I completely agree, Rogue came in with a plan, it s clear he practiced these builds and thought they re gonna work out, and indeed they had to work in practice sessions else he wasnt gonna throw them out in RO8. It went horribly horribly wrong (game 1 and 4). If it went according to plan people would praise his genius and creative play-style
On August 30 2018 14:41 Proko wrote: People are really going hard at Rogue, but he planned the series and executed his builds. When you get bad build matchups it can make you look extremely weak and unprepared like Rogue looked at times. I think people are underselling how poorly his build choices matched up against Neeb's. Even the game where Rogue successfully went Muta showed it. Neeb was pulling out some slightly offbeat stuff that hit Rogue well most of the time (reviving DT double archon drop for example.)
yeah, armchair experts trash-talking pros. I completely agree, Rogue came in with a plan, it s clear he practiced these builds and thought they re gonna work out, and indeed they had to work in practice sessions else he wasnt gonna throw them out in RO8. It went horribly horribly wrong (game 1 and 4). If it went according to plan people would praise his genius and creative play-style
But is Rogue actually known for his "genius and creative play" or because of his solid fundamentals and strong lategame? I am not an expert but not playing to your strenghts is actually a very poor plan for any competitive athlete.
On August 30 2018 14:41 Proko wrote: People are really going hard at Rogue, but he planned the series and executed his builds. When you get bad build matchups it can make you look extremely weak and unprepared like Rogue looked at times. I think people are underselling how poorly his build choices matched up against Neeb's. Even the game where Rogue successfully went Muta showed it. Neeb was pulling out some slightly offbeat stuff that hit Rogue well most of the time (reviving DT double archon drop for example.)
yeah, armchair experts trash-talking pros. I completely agree, Rogue came in with a plan, it s clear he practiced these builds and thought they re gonna work out, and indeed they had to work in practice sessions else he wasnt gonna throw them out in RO8. It went horribly horribly wrong (game 1 and 4). If it went according to plan people would praise his genius and creative play-style
Well obviously, if you do something stupid or bizarre in a game, then it working or not will always decide how people react. Maru just went 2 base battlecruiser in the asian games and won, but had he lost we'd be calling him stupid for trying it.
It's not rare for Rogue to try something new and it just not work, but he looked almost nonsensical in half those games. He was behind and playing worse at every moment. Neeb just played a standard game with no major mistakes or abnormalities and completely crushed him.
On August 30 2018 11:58 Clazziquai10 wrote: Just hypothesizing, what happens in the highly unlikely scenario that Neeb wins GSL and qualifies for blizzcon through WCS Korea and WCS circuit?
He'll get placed twice in the bracket and have to face off against himself. Neeb vs Neeb, one of the hardest matches to call.
I'm gonna go with.. Neeb.
I think Stats vs TY finals, Stats has ascended and is very quietly the best player of LotV.
On August 30 2018 11:58 Clazziquai10 wrote: Just hypothesizing, what happens in the highly unlikely scenario that Neeb wins GSL and qualifies for blizzcon through WCS Korea and WCS circuit?
He'll get placed twice in the bracket and have to face off against himself. Neeb vs Neeb, one of the hardest matches to call.
I'm gonna go with.. Neeb.
I think Stats vs TY finals, Stats has ascended and is very quietly the best player of LotV.
I don't think Stats is even quietly the best LOTV player, he just is. The guy's had 9 premier tournament finals appearances and 4 premier wins in LOTV, that's just insane. Even this year which is not considered to have been an amazing year for Stats he has won a premier title and made 2 other premier finals appearances.
As much as I'd like to see Neeb get to the finals, Stats (the best protoss in the world) said that he believes TY is better than he is. I don't think Neeb will make it past TY. I hope he does though.
I remember Neeb saying his vT wasn't bad and we didn't really get to see it because Maru bopped him twice before late game. It will be interesting to see how he handles a Terran with a more brainy macro style like TY. Even if he does advance, I don't think he could take Maru or Gumiho in the finals - they're both good at turning on hyper aggressive mode which he seems weak against. If he somehow met Zest or Stats in the finals though...
On August 30 2018 03:21 Dave4 wrote: Hey lads big job from Neeb. First Serral wins GSL, next Neeb? What a year!.
If Neeb can beat Maru it'd be crazy that 2 best players are foreigners
So.. when didi Serral win GSL?
Liquipedia says he did and liquipedia is always right
Except even Liquipedia doesn't say that- he's expressly not listed in the GSL Champions list, and GSL vs the World has never been a 'Global Event' (i.e. a GSL) on the record-keeping for GSL events.
Congratulations to Neeb! This is amazing. Him making it to Ro4 is more significant for the foreign scene than Seral Winning GSL vs the World in my opinion. The last foreigner to make it this far in GSL proper was Jinro(he did it twice). GSL is a much harder tournament than GSL vs The World. Your opponents have time to dissect and size up your game before hand. Strategic preparation means just as much as execution in this setting.
On August 30 2018 03:21 Dave4 wrote: Hey lads big job from Neeb. First Serral wins GSL, next Neeb? What a year!.
If Neeb can beat Maru it'd be crazy that 2 best players are foreigners
So.. when didi Serral win GSL?
Liquipedia says he did and liquipedia is always right
Except even Liquipedia doesn't say that- he's expressly not listed in the GSL Champions list, and GSL vs the World has never been a 'Global Event' (i.e. a GSL) on the record-keeping for GSL events.
It lists Serral's win in GSL vs The World in the tournament section. Serral's name is not listed in the 'Medals won by player' section which is weird cuz Innovation has 4 gold medals despite only winning 3 Code S seasons (the 4th being his GSL vs The World win). So either Inno only won 3 GSL's and Serrals doesn't count or Serral won 1 GSL and Inno won 4
to the people defending rogue: please explain what his game plan was supposed to be in the zero economy zero attack roach swarm host game. it's not like his build got countered by clever adjustments from Neeb - Neeb just hardcountered him by sitting there and playing normal protoss. i have a hard time believing rogue doesn't have the chance to practice against standard toss at BARE MINIMUM neeb's level, so he should at least know to make it look like he has a goal or plan
i didn't see game 3 until the last fight, so im not sure what went on there. ultras are weird in ZvP but defensible in theory. but making 400 roaches and swarm hosts on inferior economy and doing nothing is not a real strategy. at pro level only mental blocks and indecision cause such stupid play
On August 31 2018 07:58 brickrd wrote: to the people defending rogue: please explain what his game plan was supposed to be in the zero economy zero attack roach swarm host game
In the first game Rouge was looking to go 2 base swarmhost and got hard countered by double starport. With so many pheonix in the air he had to go hydra first and his build was shot.
I think Rouge tried some interesting builds, but they matched up horribly against what Neeb was doing, maybe he got a bit too fancy, but imo can't fault him for trying some new things which he thought would throw off his opponent.
On August 30 2018 03:21 Dave4 wrote: Hey lads big job from Neeb. First Serral wins GSL, next Neeb? What a year!.
If Neeb can beat Maru it'd be crazy that 2 best players are foreigners
So.. when didi Serral win GSL?
Liquipedia says he did and liquipedia is always right
Except even Liquipedia doesn't say that- he's expressly not listed in the GSL Champions list, and GSL vs the World has never been a 'Global Event' (i.e. a GSL) on the record-keeping for GSL events.
Strange, they count INno and Mvp's GSL vs The World titles under the list of GSL winners. They also give them to the Supertournament winners.
On August 30 2018 03:21 Dave4 wrote: Hey lads big job from Neeb. First Serral wins GSL, next Neeb? What a year!.
If Neeb can beat Maru it'd be crazy that 2 best players are foreigners
So.. when didi Serral win GSL?
Liquipedia says he did and liquipedia is always right
Except even Liquipedia doesn't say that- he's expressly not listed in the GSL Champions list, and GSL vs the World has never been a 'Global Event' (i.e. a GSL) on the record-keeping for GSL events.
Strange, they count INno and Mvp's GSL vs The World titles under the list of GSL winners. They also give them to the Supertournament winners.
On August 31 2018 19:14 Mun_Su wrote: Obviously neither INno or Mvp or Serral wins at GSL vs the world count as a GSL. Both tournaments can't be more different...
Everyone apart from those who run liquipedia seem to think so at least
On August 31 2018 19:14 Mun_Su wrote: Obviously neither INno or Mvp or Serral wins at GSL vs the world count as a GSL. Both tournaments can't be more different...
Everyone apart from those who run liquipedia seem to think so at least
We've had this conversation before, AfreecaTV counts GSL vs the World as a GSL.
On August 31 2018 19:14 Mun_Su wrote: Obviously neither INno or Mvp or Serral wins at GSL vs the world count as a GSL. Both tournaments can't be more different...
Everyone apart from those who run liquipedia seem to think so at least
I don't see why it shouldn't count as a GSL, it's in the name. It's certainly neither a GSL Code S nor a Starleague though which is what really counts.
shouldn't they swap the ro4 dates? I mean maru, gumiho, stats, zest play Ro8 on Sunday and winners play Ro4 3 days later while Neeb and TY plays on Sep 8th, which conflicts with WCS Montreal. If they swap the dates then Neeb avoids the schedule clash while the other side of the bracket gets more time to prepare.
On September 01 2018 03:21 argonautdice wrote: shouldn't they swap the ro4 dates? I mean maru, gumiho, stats, zest play Ro8 on Sunday and winners play Ro4 3 days later while Neeb and TY plays on Sep 8th, which conflicts with WCS Montreal. If they swap the dates then Neeb avoids the schedule clash while the other side of the bracket gets more time to prepare.
They should swap dates also because they just swapped so Maru could go to Asian Games. If Neeb beats TY though, he should definitely skip Montreal to prepare for GSL finals to make history.
On September 01 2018 03:21 argonautdice wrote: shouldn't they swap the ro4 dates? I mean maru, gumiho, stats, zest play Ro8 on Sunday and winners play Ro4 3 days later while Neeb and TY plays on Sep 8th, which conflicts with WCS Montreal. If they swap the dates then Neeb avoids the schedule clash while the other side of the bracket gets more time to prepare.
Artosis said on the Pylon show they are already working on scheduling around Neeb's conflict with WCS Montreal.
On August 30 2018 14:41 Proko wrote: People are really going hard at Rogue, but he planned the series and executed his builds. When you get bad build matchups it can make you look extremely weak and unprepared like Rogue looked at times. I think people are underselling how poorly his build choices matched up against Neeb's. Even the game where Rogue successfully went Muta showed it. Neeb was pulling out some slightly offbeat stuff that hit Rogue well most of the time (reviving DT double archon drop for example.)
yeah, armchair experts trash-talking pros. I completely agree, Rogue came in with a plan, it s clear he practiced these builds and thought they re gonna work out, and indeed they had to work in practice sessions else he wasnt gonna throw them out in RO8. It went horribly horribly wrong (game 1 and 4). If it went according to plan people would praise his genius and creative play-style
But is Rogue actually known for his "genius and creative play" or because of his solid fundamentals and strong lategame? I am not an expert but not playing to your strenghts is actually a very poor plan for any competitive athlete.
Well, he was known for strategies and builds in HotS.
On August 31 2018 19:14 Mun_Su wrote: Obviously neither INno or Mvp or Serral wins at GSL vs the world count as a GSL. Both tournaments can't be more different...
Everyone apart from those who run liquipedia seem to think so at least
We've had this conversation before, AfreecaTV counts GSL vs the World as a GSL.
And my response is the same as it was last time. Do they really? They give INno 3 medals when he goes into matches, not four.
GOM also wanted Mvp's to count I guess, but that was purely for G5L hype.
On August 30 2018 14:41 Proko wrote: People are really going hard at Rogue, but he planned the series and executed his builds. When you get bad build matchups it can make you look extremely weak and unprepared like Rogue looked at times. I think people are underselling how poorly his build choices matched up against Neeb's. Even the game where Rogue successfully went Muta showed it. Neeb was pulling out some slightly offbeat stuff that hit Rogue well most of the time (reviving DT double archon drop for example.)
yeah, armchair experts trash-talking pros. I completely agree, Rogue came in with a plan, it s clear he practiced these builds and thought they re gonna work out, and indeed they had to work in practice sessions else he wasnt gonna throw them out in RO8. It went horribly horribly wrong (game 1 and 4). If it went according to plan people would praise his genius and creative play-style
But is Rogue actually known for his "genius and creative play" or because of his solid fundamentals and strong lategame? I am not an expert but not playing to your strenghts is actually a very poor plan for any competitive athlete.
Rouge is known for his genius and creative play, in the past that's what defined him as a player it's only recently, like last year that he started to bring his mechanics up to the level they are today. Rouge used to be the Zerg that did all sorts of weird but smart builds that allowed him to win games. I think his loss is more attributed to his smart plays not working out vs what been brought than anything else.
On August 31 2018 19:14 Mun_Su wrote: Obviously neither INno or Mvp or Serral wins at GSL vs the world count as a GSL. Both tournaments can't be more different...
Everyone apart from those who run liquipedia seem to think so at least
We've had this conversation before, AfreecaTV counts GSL vs the World as a GSL.
And my response is the same as it was last time. Do they really? They give INno 3 medals when he goes into matches, not four.
GOM also wanted Mvp's to count I guess, but that was purely for G5L hype.
Mvp's wasn't GSL vs the World, it was GSL World Championship and was specifically referred to as equivalent to a GSL Code S by GOM from the start of 2011. GSL vs the World was never advertised as that and never treated as that by Afreeca.
The biggest difference is, of course, that GSL WC was qualifier based (even if the qualifiers were pretty dire for its time), and GSL vs the World had players who were invited. If WC was held today, it obviously wouldn't be counted by Afreeca, but it was always intended to be a GSL at the time, unlike GSL vs the World.
EPT
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