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Code S Ro8 Preview: Neeb vs Rogue, Leenock vs TY

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Code S Ro8 Preview: Neeb vs Rogue, Leenock vs TY

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
August 28th, 2018 13:23 GMT

Code S Quarterfinals - Day One

Start time: Wednesday, Aug 29 4:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)

The time for second chances is over as Code S moves on from the group stages to the single elimination playoffs. We begin with the lower half of the bracket as Maru is away in Indonesia for StarCraft II exhibition at the 2018 Asian Games.

[image loading]


Global StarCraft 2 League Code S - 2018 Season 3

Quarterfinal #1: Neeb vs Rogue

by Mizenhauer

(Wiki)Neeb and (Wiki)Rogue’s clash at the 2017 WCS Global Finals was quite possibly the most anticipated match-up of the group stages. Neeb had dominated the WCS Circuit by winning three out of four events and had nothing left to prove against non-Korean opponents. Rogue—a last-chance Global Finals entrant with back-to-back wins at IEM Shanghai and GSL Super Tournament #2—was the hottest player entering the tournament

Neeb ended up quenching Rogue's hot streak in a late-game slog on Mech Depot, where he proved that even the Jin Air Zerg's famous patience had its limits. It was validation for Neeb's supplicants who had long argued that he would find success against Koreans as well. Not only had he gone toe-to-toe with the best Zerg in the world, but he had upstaged Rogue in his element. Buoyed by his victory over Rogue, Neeb was in the driver’s seat after the first day of the group stages, but his story didn’t have a happy ending. It turned out he hadn't extinguished Rogue's flame—he had merely tempered his steel. Rogue easily dispatched Neeb in the group's decider match, leaving Neeb to wonder “what if” as Rogue went on to claim the title of BlizzCon champion.

It’s fair to say both players have experienced their fair share of ups and downs in the ten months that followed. Though Rogue reaffirmed his class by winning IEM Katowice, he’s otherwise struggled to live up to his title-contender billing. Here's his list of GSL finishes this year: Ro32 (Code S S1), Ro16 (Super Tournament #1), Ro8 (Code S S2), Ro16 (GSL vs. The World). This isn’t the Rogue that shocked and awed us last year.

Or is it?

The fact is that Rogue’s trajectory this year is uncannily similar to that of his in 2017. He reached two Code S quarterfinals that year as well. His poor play in SSL Challenge mirrors his dismal efforts in non-Code S Korean tournaments in 2018. For the most part, this is the same, maddeningly inconsistent Rogue: impotent one day, imperious champion the next.

Neeb’s 2018 has been nothing like his astonishing 2017. At a glance it would be a simple matter to say (Wiki)Serral forcibly usurped the foreigner throne, but the unquestionable reality is that Neeb simply hasn’t been good enough to contest the Finnish Zerg. It hasn’t been Serral who’s sent him crashing out of tournaments. Neeb has been ousted by (Wiki)MaNa once and (Wiki)ShoWTimE twice. He’s never come within shouting distance of the recently crowned GSL vs. the World champion. Neeb has still been good enough to virtually guarantee his spot at the Global Finals, but he’s no longer the titan who dismissively cast aside all competition en route to a WCS Circuit triple crown.

Neeb has had no choice but to grow familiar with being the underdog. On the WCS Circuit he's been just another member of the pack gazing up at Serral, and in this season of Code S he’s been looked upon as third fiddle in both groups he’s played in. Now, here he is, walking into a best of five against the same Korean Zerg that sent him packing at BlizzCon last year. Neeb entered that tournament at the peak of his powers and it still wasn’t enough. How could this diminished version topple Rogue who, if it weren’t for (Wiki)Maru, may have become a Code S champion? (And what does one make of Neeb's 3-2 victory over Rogue at the Hangzhou StarCraft festival?)

This isn’t the rematch we imagined after their BlizzCon showdown. Rogue had to be considered the favorite to win the first GSL of 2018, while there was no reason to believe Neeb would allow the foreign scene to slip from beneath his boot. And yet, here they are, diminished and humbled, looking up at others rather than surveying their domain. Code S can’t be won in the Round of 8, but a victory here would bring Neeb and Rogue ever closer to a crowning moment that would absolve their shortcomings in 2018.

Editor's note: Mizenhauer declined to make a prediction so I'm making one in his place:

Rogue 3 - 1 Neeb


Quarterfinal #2: Leenock vs TY

by Malafice

This Ro32 matchup pits Leenock against… Wait, this is the Ro8? Leenock is still in the tournament?

Ahem… This Ro8 matchup features the perennial championship contender (T)TY and the GSL gatekeeper (Z)Leenock. Considering their achievements in Legacy of the Void, even the most junior of TL writers could predict this match to be a one sided stomp in TY’s favor. However, Leenock’s recent GSL showings have continued to delight viewers and defy expectations. With TY looking formidable as ever, the real question here is just how good is Leenock?

As hinted at earlier, this is Leenock’s first trip to a Code S Ro8 since November of 2012. Leenock was one of the best Zergs in the world during Wings of Liberty, but he's spent the lengthier portion of his career mired in mediocrity. As a result, little more than the occasional Ro16 appearance has been expected of him.

Leenock looked like he was headed to another early exit after beginning the season in a Ro32 group with tournament favorite Maru. Leenock's fate seemed all but sealed, but a miracle occurred. The Godnock reemerged from his ancient slumber and descended upon the unsuspecting mortals of the GSL. The Godnock smote down his foes with unrelenting fury on his way to the Ro8, even pummeling Maru in a late game ZvT. Sure, Leenock ended up losing the series 1-2 to Maru, but the sheer quality of Leenock's play in that match left StarCraft II fans bristling with excitement. Leenock showed he was capable of top tier ZvT akin to the likes of Rogue and Dark. He will certainly need it if he wants to take down one of the Four Horsemen of Terran in a Bo5.

For (Wiki)TY, a GSL Ro8 appearance is business as usual. What’s odd for the Terran titan is the fact that he’s failed to bring home any premier tournament victories in 2018. However, nearly everyone in the StarCraft II scene will attest to the fact that TY is still in top form. Even Maru seemed wary of facing TY during the Ro16 Group Nominations, where TY remained unselected until the final round.

Taking a page out of Maru’s book, TY made quick work of both Protoss powerhouses, sOs and Stats, in the proxy-fest that was Group D of the Ro16. While TY most certainly has his eyes set on the GSL S3 finals, he would be foolish to look past the lowly Leenock.

Any other year, any other season, any other tournament, TY would be the undisputed favorite against Leenock. But not this time. Maybe this writer has been listening to too many Artosis casts, but Leenock has a real shot here against TY. Leenock proved he can go toe-to-toe with the best in a late game ZvT, and he isn’t afraid to get aggressive early either. That being said, TY’s reputation as one of the best Terran players in the world is well-earned. His tactics are unpredictable, his mechanics are god-tier, and most importantly, he wants the Code S championship that's eluded him for so long.

But Leenock wants the Code S title just as much, and he's wanted it for much longer. If the Godnock returns to pick up where he left off in 2011, this series will be a breathtaking display of exquisite ZvT. If the grizzled, old, war-torn Leenock appears instead, they might as well not even play. My faith is in the Godnock.

Prediction: Leenock 3 - 2 TY



Credits and acknowledgements

Writers: Malafice, Mizenhauer
Editor: Wax
Images: AfreecaTV
Statistics: Aligulac.com
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TL+ Member
Sakat
Profile Blog Joined October 2014
Croatia1599 Posts
August 28 2018 13:44 GMT
#2
Yeah. No way Leenock beats TY here. (Can't wait to ironicly quote myself tomorrow but hey)
My boy Ptak defeated two GSL champions!
Duceman
Profile Joined June 2018
United States87 Posts
August 28 2018 14:49 GMT
#3
GODNOCKTOPUS!!!!!!

I think he loses 3-1 but two of TY’s wins are absolute nail biters.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55458 Posts
August 28 2018 14:50 GMT
#4
On August 28 2018 22:23 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
Any other year, any other season, any other tournament, TY would be the undisputed favorite against Leenock. But not this time.

It's fine to predict Leenock to win and get hyped for him, but to pretend that TY isn't the odds-on favorite against Leenock is to lie to yourself.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Rodya
Profile Joined January 2018
546 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-28 14:51:08
August 28 2018 14:50 GMT
#5
How do you decline to make a prediction in Rogue vs Neeb lol? This isn't a difficult match to predict, one is well rounded godlike player with the best lategame in the world among zergs and the other is a middling foreigner who relies on grinding out wins in the lategame and whose control isn't good enough to hold early aggression from top players.

Even if you aren't going to predict the obvious 3-0, not predicting just makes you look silly. They wouldn't have even met at Blizzcon if not for the region lock gifting Neeb tons of wcs points.
Banned for saying "zerg players are by far the biggest whiners in sc2 history" despite the fact that this forum is full of such posts about Terrans. Foreigner Elitists in control!
xRS Forsaken
Profile Joined July 2017
9 Posts
August 28 2018 14:56 GMT
#6
I love all the hate neeb gets and I can’t wait for him to prove all the doubters wrong again
Vincenzo
Profile Joined June 2018
11 Posts
August 28 2018 14:59 GMT
#7
Neeb-Rogue 1hour game in Blizzcon 2017 is the most epic game I've seen in SC2 during the last year. Hope they go to the late game but I guess it will be all about adept/roach-bane timings.
Jimmon
Profile Joined May 2011
United States112 Posts
August 28 2018 15:06 GMT
#8
On August 28 2018 23:50 Rodya wrote:
How do you decline to make a prediction in Rogue vs Neeb lol? This isn't a difficult match to predict, one is well rounded godlike player with the best lategame in the world among zergs and the other is a middling foreigner who relies on grinding out wins in the lategame and whose control isn't good enough to hold early aggression from top players.

Even if you aren't going to predict the obvious 3-0, not predicting just makes you look silly. They wouldn't have even met at Blizzcon if not for the region lock gifting Neeb tons of wcs points.



Okay, well you can say this, but the most recently results show Neeb beating Rogue so.....

Get outta here son.

Neeb 3-1 EZ.
I love LOveRH
AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-28 15:19:56
August 28 2018 15:12 GMT
#9
On August 28 2018 23:50 Rodya wrote:
How do you decline to make a prediction in Rogue vs Neeb lol? This isn't a difficult match to predict, one is well rounded godlike player with the best lategame in the world among zergs and the other is a middling foreigner who relies on grinding out wins in the lategame and whose control isn't good enough to hold early aggression from top players.

Even if you aren't going to predict the obvious 3-0, not predicting just makes you look silly. They wouldn't have even met at Blizzcon if not for the region lock gifting Neeb tons of wcs points.

Rogue has NEVER, I repeat, NEVER won late game against Neeb.
He only wins by cheesing Neeb or all-ins, that speaks volume about how Rogue thinks about facing Neeb.
And it's not disrespext when Rogue cheeses because he know as well as we do that he can't beat Neeb in late game, and it's not like Neeb doesn't know how to cheese either.
On top of all that they have a 3-3 record against each other, so this is closer then you think, my friend.
If this was Dark vs Neeb, I won't even bother typing this out, but Rogie vs Neeb is very close.
Faker is the GOAT!
Ishmael
Profile Joined June 2016
92 Posts
August 28 2018 15:13 GMT
#10
For whatever reason, the SC2 TL previews (as opposed to those for BW) seem sometimes to focus more on hype and narrative over actual gameplay analysis, predictions, and discussion of how the two player's style will interact. Mizenhauer's preview tells me very little about how Neeb and Rogue actually play, and how their styles might match up, but just talks about how 'we' view them compared to the rest of the scene, and how 'on top' of things they are.

While obviously not everyone can analyze games or talk about player's styles with the skill and clarity of someone like PiG, there has to be a better kind of writing than this. To me, it feels boring and uninteresting. Strangely enough, the attempt to add hype and excitement by pretending that the players are characters in some sort of pseudo-fantastical fanfiction (why are they constantly surveying their domains? Does that remind you of the real Starcraft players and their play at all?) actually makes the games feel less important. I'm not interested in who is 'in charge' of the mythical Starcraft 2 domain; I want to get a good basis for what gameplay elements will be important and worth watching for in the series. I'd much rather get a little context for what it means when Rogue goes early upgrades than I would pretend to believe that Neeb was 'dismissive' towards any of his opponents.

Just my two cents.
The Nature of Infinity is this: That every thing has its own Vortex
Weavel
Profile Joined January 2010
Finland9221 Posts
August 28 2018 15:14 GMT
#11
I feel like Neeb and Leenock got this.
Life/Seed//Mvp/NaNiwa fighting! ZeNEX forever!
veniss
Profile Joined August 2018
73 Posts
August 28 2018 15:28 GMT
#12
PiG casted the Neeb vs. Rogue series at Hangzhou, so you can decide for yourself how real that victory is.
BigRedDog
Profile Joined May 2012
461 Posts
August 28 2018 15:43 GMT
#13
Not sure if Leenock deserves to be called Godnock. He hasn't been consistent in the past year.

TY is a lot more consistent than Leenock.

TY is more favourable to win in that match up.

Big Red Dog!
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-28 16:03:00
August 28 2018 15:59 GMT
#14
Neeb dehd

Leenock vs TY is a big mystery.

Leenock's recent hospitalization so close to the event makes me lean towards TY more than anything. In terms of recent stats, TY is killing it while Leenock's ZvT appears to be quite bad. However, Leenock has also shown a night and day difference in his GSL form vs his online performances very much like Rogue. He seemed very good against Maru but that's just one bo3.

I guess it's just the unprecedented return to form combined with remembering how scary Leenock could be before he went on a long streak of being code S fodder that makes me think he has some hope here. He beat prime Mvp in a bo5 ffs

NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Ishmael
Profile Joined June 2016
92 Posts
August 28 2018 16:31 GMT
#15
On August 29 2018 00:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:

Leenock's recent hospitalization so close to the event


Didn't hear about this, hope he's okay. Any idea what it was all about?
The Nature of Infinity is this: That every thing has its own Vortex
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
August 28 2018 16:37 GMT
#16
On August 29 2018 01:31 Ishmael wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2018 00:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:

Leenock's recent hospitalization so close to the event


Didn't hear about this, hope he's okay. Any idea what it was all about?


Kidney stones
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Latr02
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
August 28 2018 17:17 GMT
#17
That's really unfortunate timing, hopefully his recovery is going well. That said I think Leenock is due to a return to form, and I think TY will bring him back to earth 3-1.

Is it just me are these two matches missing from the TL sidebar of Upcoming Events?

StabiloBoss20
Profile Joined July 2015
313 Posts
August 28 2018 17:51 GMT
#18
On August 29 2018 00:12 AzAlexZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2018 23:50 Rodya wrote:
How do you decline to make a prediction in Rogue vs Neeb lol? This isn't a difficult match to predict, one is well rounded godlike player with the best lategame in the world among zergs and the other is a middling foreigner who relies on grinding out wins in the lategame and whose control isn't good enough to hold early aggression from top players.

Even if you aren't going to predict the obvious 3-0, not predicting just makes you look silly. They wouldn't have even met at Blizzcon if not for the region lock gifting Neeb tons of wcs points.

(...)
And it's not disrespext when Rogue cheeses because he know as well as we do that he can't beat Neeb in late game
(...)


seriously?
AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-28 18:14:08
August 28 2018 17:53 GMT
#19
On August 29 2018 02:51 StabiloBoss20 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2018 00:12 AzAlexZ wrote:
On August 28 2018 23:50 Rodya wrote:
How do you decline to make a prediction in Rogue vs Neeb lol? This isn't a difficult match to predict, one is well rounded godlike player with the best lategame in the world among zergs and the other is a middling foreigner who relies on grinding out wins in the lategame and whose control isn't good enough to hold early aggression from top players.

Even if you aren't going to predict the obvious 3-0, not predicting just makes you look silly. They wouldn't have even met at Blizzcon if not for the region lock gifting Neeb tons of wcs points.

(...)
And it's not disrespext when Rogue cheeses because he know as well as we do that he can't beat Neeb in late game
(...)


seriously?

Find me one instance where Rogue has beaten Neeb in the late game when they were even.
When have you seen Rogue beat Neeb when Rogue is the one with a deficit?
Probably not, but Neeb has recovered quite a few times and beat Rogue (that 4th game in the Hangzhou Carnival comes to mind)
Lets take a look at the wins Neeb has on Rogue, out of the 7 games that Neeb won vs Rogue, 3 of them were early game wins.
Neeb cheesed Rogue in the last game in Hangzhou with a chargelot all-in. And in KeSPa cup 2016, Rogue was so shit that Neeb just striaght up smashed him with Adepts
the rest of the 4 games they played went to the late game. Two in Blizzcon and 2 times in Hangzhou.
Meanwhile Rogue has used Nydus all-ins, ling rushes and ling bane all-ins to beat Neeb.
Faker is the GOAT!
KappaKingPrime
Profile Joined May 2014
United States468 Posts
August 28 2018 18:36 GMT
#20
I hope that Leenock has recovered from his surgery and will be able to put up good fight against TY.
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