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LTCM
174 Posts
On August 05 2018 22:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Absolutely not... The gap between Serral and the other foreigners has simply widened. The gap between serral and neeb may be wide when viewed as a snapshot depending on the players going through hot or cold periods but lifetime achievements are still neck and neck. Gap between those two is narrow to non-existent. | ||
Waxangel
United States33584 Posts
But for the purposes of most StarCraft II viewers, it just doesn't FEEL as shitty to be a fan of foreign pros anymore, which is what really matters at the end of the day. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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LTCM
174 Posts
On August 30 2018 01:25 Waxangel wrote: You could come up with all sorts of statistical evidence to prove the gap has closed or not. But for the purposes of most StarCraft II viewers, it just doesn't FEEL as shitty to be a fan of foreign pros anymore, which is what really matters at the end of the day. Thats 100% true. It also FEELS more shitty to be a fan of Korean pros. Blizzard achieved its goal for sure. It's just a matter of opinion if that was the right goal to have. | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
On August 30 2018 01:31 LTCM wrote: Thats 100% true. It also FEELS more shitty to be a fan of Korean pros. Blizzard achieved its goal for sure. It's just a matter of opinion if that was the right goal to have. It's nice to have a thriving Korean scene. But is it worth it to have a thriving Korean scene if overall SC2 viewership suffers? I would rather have higher overall viewership numbers for SC2 even if it means the Korean SC2 scene takes a bit of a hit. While BW and SC2 are heavily based in Korea, I don't think the future of SC2 has to be. Aside from LoL, BW, and SC2, look at the other games that are doing quite well and don't depend on a single country like Korea. | ||
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LTCM
174 Posts
On August 30 2018 01:48 xelnaga_empire wrote: It's nice to have a thriving Korean scene. But is it worth it to have a thriving Korean scene if overall SC2 viewership suffers? I would rather have higher overall viewership numbers for SC2 even if it means the Korean SC2 scene takes a bit of a hit. While BW and SC2 are heavily based in Korea, I don't think the future of SC2 has to be. Aside from LoL, BW, and SC2, look at the other games that are doing quite well and don't depend on a single country like Korea. Then blizzard should have advanced the skill level of foreigners instead of retarding the skill of Koreans. Did blizzard open and sponsor european, na, or sa team houses? Did they sponsor a Korean team house for foreigners? Did the promote the movement of foreigners to Korea for practice? No, No they didn't. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12422 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
On August 30 2018 01:48 xelnaga_empire wrote: It's nice to have a thriving Korean scene. But is it worth it to have a thriving Korean scene if overall SC2 viewership suffers? I would rather have higher overall viewership numbers for SC2 even if it means the Korean SC2 scene takes a bit of a hit. While BW and SC2 are heavily based in Korea, I don't think the future of SC2 has to be. Aside from LoL, BW, and SC2, look at the other games that are doing quite well and don't depend on a single country like Korea. Well, to some people twitch viewership seems to be the most important thing so they can jerk themselves of to how popular the game they follow is. Others just want a fair competitive scene that gets watched by the people who enjoy it. | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On August 30 2018 01:59 LTCM wrote: Then blizzard should have advanced the skill level of foreigners instead of retarding the skill of Koreans. Did blizzard open and sponsor european, na, or sa team houses? Did they sponsor a Korean team house for foreigners? Did the promote the movement of foreigners to Korea for practice? No, No they didn't. Blizzard didn't make the Koreans play worse, Blizzard didn't cause the multiple scandals that drove long time sponsors away from the Korean scene, and Blizzard didn't decide to terminate long standing Korean leagues either. The Korean scene did that all on its own. You seem to think the Korean scene was just thriving before the region lock went out, like over night it went from a booming amateur scene with an incredibly boisterous pro scene to what it is today all because Blizzard region locked the game. But the reality is the Korean scene in SC2 has been stagnating at best for most of its lifespan. This kind of crumbling was inevitable, and you don't have to look too hard to see it: paying people to sit in and cheer for players, almost no "new" faces since the switch from BW to SC2, shrinking audiences across the board, the matchfixing scandals, etc. Korea might have the best players, but it doesn't have the best market, the most money, or all that many top players(or even rising players) outside of the ones we already know. Korean brands don't want to market themselves where they won't get many engaged eyeballs and where they don't see potential for growth, and foreign brands don't want to market in regions where their brand won't be recognized by many no matter how big the viewership. The Korean market was unsustainable for years and its collapse just kept getting pushed back year after year until the companies involved just couldn't justify the losses anymore. The Korean market not enjoying SC2 as much as rival games and the several credibilty-destroying scandals created this problem, not Blizzard. Also, 2 of your 3 questions still rely on one country to be the catalyst of success, and any global market/competition/etc cannot reliably depend on ONE country and expect long term success. Also, why should Blizzard sponsor team houses? Why should they try and flood the Korean scene with foreign players? Blizzard is under no obligation to support a team or organization that can't sustain itself. If a team can't support its own house, then it shouldn't have one and they need to find an alternative method to practice as a team and live within their means. Your alternatives you gave as questions are unrealistic and the blame you put on Blizzard is unfounded. They didn't make Koreans worse, the stagnation of the Korean scene well before the region lock made a decline in their skill inevitable, as it was just a matter of time before the famed Korean infrastructure and dedicated training crumbled to pieces. If you want to blame anyone for the downfall of the Korean scene, which I still think would be too simplistic for such a complex issue, blame the Korean market for not liking SC2. | ||
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Rodya
546 Posts
To the guy above me: the scandals aren't why all of the fans' favorite players no longer play SC2. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On August 30 2018 01:25 Waxangel wrote: You could come up with all sorts of statistical evidence to prove the gap has closed or not. But for the purposes of most StarCraft II viewers, it just doesn't FEEL as shitty to be a fan of foreign pros anymore, which is what really matters at the end of the day. That's right - nowadays, if you were to watch a WCS event or other foreign tournament, it doesn't feel like watching a minor league anymore, when you know that players like Serral and Neeb are top players. Back during peak Korean dominance, if you couldn't get a few Koreans, there was little interest in a tournament made up of just foreigners. It's all about perception, and now the perception is shifting towards NA / EU not having an inferior product to KR | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On August 30 2018 02:43 Rodya wrote: It's time to take off the region lock. The Korean scene has suffocated as a result of it, and if foreigners start taking a bunch of GSL spots then it is going to completely die soon. Brood War is far more popular in Korea - we have to do something to encourage Korean players to focus on SC2 isntead of Brood War, and I say that as someone who loves BW. To the guy above me: the scandals aren't why all of the fans' favorite players no longer play SC2. I didn't say the scandals are why the players stopped playing, I said they were contributing factors as to why the Korean scene didn't see growth and eventually started falling apart. Re-read what I said. EDIT: Added the "falling apart" bit for better accuracy | ||
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Tappo
101 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
On August 30 2018 02:51 Vutalisk wrote: Gap closing or not I feel Korean scene is just falling apart (IMO dying). Zero new bloods and several old faces are on the way out to military service. They can't even fill Ro32 of GSL anymore. Pretty much same faces every single tournament. Many of them seem to have a hard time this year (some already retired). Maru is god and all but he seems to benefit so much from such a weak battlefield. I never thought Korean scene comes down to the point Maru needed to proxy rax twice in a row to win vs KeeN. Maru vs Zest GSL final is the worst final in years. The Stats/TY/sOs group was nothing but a battle of cheeses. There is new blood but we don't see them because they have to compete for the remaining Code S spots with ~10 foreign pros. | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
On August 30 2018 03:02 Tappo wrote: How can you be a fan of anything right now. The whole system is so wrong and borderline racist. Every Korean is automatically a Innovation. The amount of Dark vs Innovation vs soO is just insane. Zero room to breath. Every online tournament right now is basically GSL That is a problem with the scene is not growing anymore and starting to die. Pretty much the same group of players (which is getting smaller and smaller) are playing vs each others all day long. It is just boring. Blizzard just won't get rid of region-lock. You either make money winning GSL or you are just winning $100 bucks here and there from online tournaments. Those options along already make you don't want to ever touch SC2 in Korea. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On August 30 2018 03:08 Charoisaur wrote: There is new blood but we don't see them because they have to compete for the remaining Code S spots with ~10 foreign pros. Yeah, and the biggest public figures of SC2(yes, I mean ARtosis and Incontroln) are defending free Korea, region locked the rest ... because we have now the bestest everest games evah!!!@!@!! | ||
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
On August 30 2018 02:45 Bagration wrote: That's right - nowadays, if you were to watch a WCS event or other foreign tournament, it doesn't feel like watching a minor league anymore, when you know that players like Serral and Neeb are top players. Back during peak Korean dominance, if you couldn't get a few Koreans, there was little interest in a tournament made up of just foreigners. It's all about perception, and now the perception is shifting towards NA / EU not having an inferior product to KR The problem is that the product is now homogenized, and its a shitty one, the level of play has been on a consistent decline, almost to a point where a diehard fan just doesn't feel like watching it anymore. | ||
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
On August 30 2018 04:08 IshinShishi wrote: The problem is that the product is now homogenized, and its a shitty one, the level of play has been on a consistent decline, almost to a point where a diehard fan just doesn't feel like watching it anymore. Huh? The skill level is higher than ever. All players are constantly improving. | ||
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