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Charoisaur
Germany16065 Posts
On August 30 2018 20:46 xelnaga_empire wrote: GSL vs the World got twice the viewers as it did last year. The time zone was the same as last year. And can you prove this is because foreigners are more competitive and not because of the overall growth following f2p? | ||
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allmotor1
153 Posts
On August 30 2018 13:59 hiroshOne wrote: Not only the gap has closed, but in case of European vs Korean Zergs it exceeded Koreans. Esoecially after this season of Code S, I feel like foreign Zergs understand the meta much better. Serral is the main proof, but the rest of Foreing Zergs still look much better than soO, Dark or Rogue. In Rogue vs Neeb series at GSL, Rogue, who's supposed to be the best Zerg in Korea just looked clueless. Sad but true. um not really. Besides Serral, the korean zergs are still better. you took that 1 series of rogues vs neeb, did you see neeb vs dark at gsl vs the world? | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On August 30 2018 22:24 Charoisaur wrote: And can you prove this is because foreigners are more competitive and not because of the overall growth following f2p? It's not one or the other, both things influence the popularity of the game and both most likely in a positive way. | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
On August 30 2018 10:12 Fango wrote: You can't be serious right? Maru proxy raxes everyone, regardless of how good they are. Out of his 10 games in gsl this season, i think 7 or 8 have been proxies. Just because he does it doesn't mean he needs to. I said that because the first series between them were 2 standard macro games and Maru lost 0-2 to KeeN. In decider match, he proxied twice in a row (same type of proxy too) and won 2-0 within like 10 minutes. Of course, Maru cheeses but the fact he was not confident to go toe to toe with KeeN in standard games is disappointing to me as a viewer especially in the past Maru was not cheesing as much as he does these days. Hey, does whatever it takes to win. I don't blame him for doing it. | ||
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TheZergishOne
27 Posts
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On August 31 2018 04:07 TheZergishOne wrote: Region lock is slowly strangling the Korean scene and is horrible for SC2 overall. I disagree. Every scene EXCEPT for korea is negatively affected when there is no region lock. Koreans just kept taking all the prize money leaving little incentive for local scenes to continue. A long time ago Catz had brought up the subject. I didn't quite understand it then but after reflecting on the last several years of the non-korean scene's development, I feel like he was 100% spot on. Only one scene is affected by region lock and that is korea. It just means they don't get access to easy money anymore, poor them, right? Every place should have their own scene with tournaments only for those who reside there. In a way, I look at it the same as "supporting local small mom/pop shop type businesses instead of corporations". Keep the money local if you want things to improve locally. I'm glad there is a region lock and I hope it stays that way forever. Anywho, In regards to the gap, I don't believe it has closed. I think there are a couple foreigner outliers who are extremely good, but foreigners don't have consistency. Koreans are still winning the majority of the tournaments they participate in. If those tournament wins start to even out closer to 50%/50% between koreans and foreigners on a regular basis, Only then could we say the gap has closed. | ||
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Tappo
101 Posts
On August 31 2018 04:36 ReachTheSky wrote: I disagree. Every scene EXCEPT for korea is negatively affected when there is no region lock. Koreans just kept taking all the prize money leaving little incentive for local scenes to continue. A long time ago Catz had brought up the subject. I didn't quite understand it then but after reflecting on the last several years of the non-korean scene's development, I feel like he was 100% spot on. Only one scene is affected by region lock and that is korea. It just means they don't get access to easy money anymore, poor them, right? Every place should have their own scene with tournaments only for those who reside there. In a way, I look at it the same as "supporting local small mom/pop shop type businesses instead of corporations". Keep the money local if you want things to improve locally. I'm glad there is a region lock and I hope it stays that way forever. Local scene? Are you talking about Europe and America being local scenes? Not to mention that every foreigner is automatically a member of that local scene. You should rethink "Local". What is this place you are talking about? How does Foreigner winning money helps in any way their local scene (wherever Local is)? Looks like you are a fan of racism. TRUE is the perfect example that this is happening. Everyone but koreans are playing in the same tournaments. Its not even region locked. What advantage does the "korean race" have? | ||
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DSK
England1110 Posts
OT: I'm glad that foreigners are doing better against Korean opponents but I'm deeply gutted that it is at the cost of the Korean scene losing player spots, with Foreigners allowed to double dip into GSL and WCS. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16065 Posts
On August 31 2018 04:36 ReachTheSky wrote: Every place should have their own scene with tournaments only for those who reside there. Where's this place for koreans? | ||
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dankobanana
Croatia244 Posts
On August 31 2018 04:52 DSK wrote: Mind the gap between the Foreign hype train and the Korean platform. OT: I'm glad that foreigners are doing better against Korean opponents but I'm deeply gutted that it is at the cost of the Korean scene losing player spots, with Foreigners allowed to double dip into GSL and WCS. but thats not the cost. The korean scene is not loosing players because of WCS. Its loosing players because SC2 just isnt popular in Korea. Look at the viewership of any WCS event and GSL. WCS>>GSL. Even the WCS Challenger, an online tournament had more viewers than GSL. if you ask me, the region lock is a 100% success story. it gave the ability for foreign players to develop and earn a living wage because in general, people want to watch more foreigners. deal with it. because of region lock and f2p, sc2 is growing (everywhere but Korea) | ||
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Carminedust
487 Posts
Edit: i also like how almost every the gap is closing thread turns into a debate about region lock and how sc2 is dying thread | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
With approximately the same budget, WCS has four tournaments and 20 challengers. GSL has two STs and 3 long tournaments. There is no challenger to foster growth, and if you don't qualify, you have to wait for months until the next GSL. The problem is not the region lock, because they have about the same prize pools, and foreign amount taken from GSL is minuscule compared to money won from foreign tournaments from 2011-2015. The problem is that SC2 is not popular enough in Korea. WCS supports a global scene of many times more the number of players of Korea and a much larger local audience. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17736 Posts
On August 31 2018 04:36 ReachTheSky wrote: I disagree. Every scene EXCEPT for korea is negatively affected when there is no region lock. Koreans just kept taking all the prize money leaving little incentive for local scenes to continue. A long time ago Catz had brought up the subject. I didn't quite understand it then but after reflecting on the last several years of the non-korean scene's development, I feel like he was 100% spot on. Only one scene is affected by region lock and that is korea. It just means they don't get access to easy money anymore, poor them, right? Every place should have their own scene with tournaments only for those who reside there. In a way, I look at it the same as "supporting local small mom/pop shop type businesses instead of corporations". Keep the money local if you want things to improve locally. I'm glad there is a region lock and I hope it stays that way forever. Anywho, In regards to the gap, I don't believe it has closed. I think there are a couple foreigner outliers who are extremely good, but foreigners don't have consistency. Koreans are still winning the majority of the tournaments they participate in. If those tournament wins start to even out closer to 50%/50% between koreans and foreigners on a regular basis, Only then could we say the gap has closed. but the problem is that the new competitiveness is with a lower skill level, I would rather watch 16 really great koreans in GSL Code S than watch 16 not-as-good players spread across the world | ||
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reincremate
China2216 Posts
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
On August 31 2018 12:30 reincremate wrote: Out of genuine curiousity, why does it matter to so many SC2 fans what race/nationality a player is? Personally, I'm totally fine with all of my favourite players in a game being Korean or being of any other nationality, even though I'm not Korean myself and do not speak the language. It matters because Korea has dominated every other nation's SC players for 20 years. The skill/lack of skill of non-korean players is a narrative that SC has thrived on for two decades. | ||
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reincremate
China2216 Posts
On August 31 2018 13:43 Proko wrote: It matters because Korea has dominated every other nation's SC players for 20 years. The skill/lack of skill of non-korean players is a narrative that SC has thrived on for two decades. What I'm asking is, why is it even such a big narrative? Why is it anything more than simply acknowledging "yeah, Korea has the best esports infrastructure, culture, etc., and therefore most or all of the top players come from there" and then moving along? | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On August 30 2018 23:51 Vutalisk wrote: I said that because the first series between them were 2 standard macro games and Maru lost 0-2 to KeeN. In decider match, he proxied twice in a row (same type of proxy too) and won 2-0 within like 10 minutes. Of course, Maru cheeses but the fact he was not confident to go toe to toe with KeeN in standard games is disappointing to me as a viewer especially in the past Maru was not cheesing as much as he does these days. Hey, does whatever it takes to win. I don't blame him for doing it. Yah Maru going up to 3CC too early and dying to three cyclones is a great example of a "standard macro game". Just because the games technically went on for longer doesn't mean Maru hadn't lost. Him proxy-ing every other game isn't new either. Even his 2013 OSL run was full of it. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
Seconded | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
GSL. The person only said "reside." Arguably, the foreigners who play in GSL also reside there (I am aware that reside also means permanent residence, but it also means "to live"). | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16065 Posts
On August 31 2018 15:50 FrkFrJss wrote: GSL. The person only said "reside." Arguably, the foreigners who play in GSL also reside there (I am aware that reside also means permanent residence, but it also means "to live"). With that definition koreans should be allowed to compete in WCS if they live abroad. | ||
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