On August 21 2019 02:44 fishjie wrote: gap closed cause region lock killed korean scene. there are no new up and coming korean players, once the current batch of gsl code s players retires for military it is all over. the end. RIP
What difference does it make for an up and coming player if Stats, Dark, Maru, TY and 4 other top Koreans fly out to a WCS event 4 times a year?
I would love to see region lock removed, so we get to see more cool games, but it would do nothing to help the Korean scene.
It would not result in more people playing or watching sc2 in Korea and it wouldn't bring back Kespa teams or Proleague either. The korean scene is declining, because there is almost no interest in sc2 in Korea. Of course the matchfixing stuff back then didn't help.
If the region lock is so awesome, region lock Korea then? To help the Korean scene, or do we care only for the foreigners and let Korea die? From my view it's the latter and I don't like it at all.
On August 21 2019 02:44 fishjie wrote: gap closed cause region lock killed korean scene. there are no new up and coming korean players, once the current batch of gsl code s players retires for military it is all over. the end. RIP
What difference does it make for an up and coming player if Stats, Dark, Maru, TY and 4 other top Koreans fly out to a WCS event 4 times a year?
I would love to see region lock removed, so we get to see more cool games, but it would do nothing to help the Korean scene.
It would not result in more people playing or watching sc2 in Korea and it wouldn't bring back Kespa teams or Proleague either. The korean scene is declining, because there is almost no interest in sc2 in Korea. Of course the matchfixing stuff back then didn't help.
High IQ post
Korean scene is dying because SC2 is just not a popular game in Korea for potential new talents. Simple as that
Also I don't feel sorry for the Korean scene anyways. They screwed it up for themselves with that that matchfixing nonsense.
But the "korean elitist" will blame it on region lock, unfair opportunities, blizzard being racist, etc. Those people are in total denial and delusional.
So that's why the studios are empty and no one watches GSL... oh, wait, no, that's not happening.
It's insanely hard to make a living out of SC2 in Korea because you have to fight not only the Koreans, you have to fight the foreigners too. The same damn reason why region lock was created for foreigners. Again, if the region lock works, region lock Korea, screw foreginer house.
Compare viewership to the foreign scene? Yes GSL is quite low (don't use time zone as an excuse)
Even in most TL tournament thread these are less comments in a GSL thread than a WCS thread.
Most of the "korean elitist" have no clue how a business work or any money management skills,
Removing region lock will not improve the Korean scene at all. Whether you like it or not, a foreigner playing in GSL creates a buzz and increases viewership/interest. Is it double standard? Yes, but that's how the real world works.
If the "korean elitists" really want to argue about removing region lock. Please go educate yourself first and read a very great High IQ post regarding this topic posted by Liquid NonY back in (2018 or 2017?) He went in depth explaining a lot of things related.
On August 21 2019 02:44 fishjie wrote: gap closed cause region lock killed korean scene. there are no new up and coming korean players, once the current batch of gsl code s players retires for military it is all over. the end. RIP
What difference does it make for an up and coming player if Stats, Dark, Maru, TY and 4 other top Koreans fly out to a WCS event 4 times a year?
I would love to see region lock removed, so we get to see more cool games, but it would do nothing to help the Korean scene.
It would not result in more people playing or watching sc2 in Korea and it wouldn't bring back Kespa teams or Proleague either. The korean scene is declining, because there is almost no interest in sc2 in Korea. Of course the matchfixing stuff back then didn't help.
You say that and yet Ragnarok had the best result in his career at IEM Katowice and the year before Hurricane had an impressive run. Lifting regionlock wouldn't only benefit the top koreans
On August 21 2019 02:44 fishjie wrote: gap closed cause region lock killed korean scene. there are no new up and coming korean players, once the current batch of gsl code s players retires for military it is all over. the end. RIP
What difference does it make for an up and coming player if Stats, Dark, Maru, TY and 4 other top Koreans fly out to a WCS event 4 times a year?
I would love to see region lock removed, so we get to see more cool games, but it would do nothing to help the Korean scene.
It would not result in more people playing or watching sc2 in Korea and it wouldn't bring back Kespa teams or Proleague either. The korean scene is declining, because there is almost no interest in sc2 in Korea. Of course the matchfixing stuff back then didn't help.
If the region lock is so awesome, region lock Korea then? To help the Korean scene, or do we care only for the foreigners and let Korea die? From my view it's the latter and I don't like it at all.
On August 21 2019 02:44 fishjie wrote: gap closed cause region lock killed korean scene. there are no new up and coming korean players, once the current batch of gsl code s players retires for military it is all over. the end. RIP
What difference does it make for an up and coming player if Stats, Dark, Maru, TY and 4 other top Koreans fly out to a WCS event 4 times a year?
I would love to see region lock removed, so we get to see more cool games, but it would do nothing to help the Korean scene.
It would not result in more people playing or watching sc2 in Korea and it wouldn't bring back Kespa teams or Proleague either. The korean scene is declining, because there is almost no interest in sc2 in Korea. Of course the matchfixing stuff back then didn't help.
High IQ post
Korean scene is dying because SC2 is just not a popular game in Korea for potential new talents. Simple as that
Also I don't feel sorry for the Korean scene anyways. They screwed it up for themselves with that that matchfixing nonsense.
But the "korean elitist" will blame it on region lock, unfair opportunities, blizzard being racist, etc. Those people are in total denial and delusional.
So that's why the studios are empty and no one watches GSL... oh, wait, no, that's not happening.
It's insanely hard to make a living out of SC2 in Korea because you have to fight not only the Koreans, you have to fight the foreigners too. The same damn reason why region lock was created for foreigners. Again, if the region lock works, region lock Korea, screw foreginer house.
Yes but what will reverting it do to address that? There are other things that would help more but they seem extremely unlikely in the current climate, Blizz having killed HotS already.
Years ago in the earlier WCS iterations if they’d been more soft region locked and Koreans had to actually base themselves longer in Europe and NA, like foreigners in GSL then they might have raised the level of those regions by their consistent presence in ladder, plus would be a way to closer mesh the scenes and give cool cultural experiences to those willing to do so.
If foreigners had had a circuit where they could not just compete with Koreans, but practice with them in the scene regularly that was my personal preference at the time, it didn’t really work out that way though.
That was a big missed opportunity in a time where Korea did have the depth to send a bunch of players outside of Korea and into foreign land in such a fashion, depth that simply isn’t there any more.
Today’s Bomber is not the vintage Bomber, the equivalents of Armani and other Code S gatekeepers 5 years ago were better than the vast majority of foreigners in a way that isn’t the case now.
WCS is a great model in most ways for eSports in general in my view, at least for Europe. You don’t need to travel necessarily to qualify, travel is paid if you do it online so you don’t need a team, there are spots for ladder qualification which incentivises good quality players to actually ladder and the prize pool isn’t insanely top heavy either. Plus you can try your luck in the open bracket if you want too.
One of the chief benefits eSports have is a very low bar to entry, get a rig and get playing online, theoretically. WCS as a system now, Korean issue aside is fantastically well set up for a European player base that has talent spread all across the continent.
I wish it had been set up sooner in something like its modern form, it’s a good setup for the foreign playerbase, although a bit more so.
Conversely the Kespa/eSF setup was ideal for the Korean scene, obviously one country, not a particularly big country and pretty centralised around Seoul, sharing one language and culture and obviously it’s easier to have team houses and team leagues when you’re based in one place.
We’ve got a system that works pretty well for foreign factors, we had one that worked well for Korean circumstances, the big challenge is finding a replacement for what Korea have lost in some way, which definitely looks a difficult nut to crack.
maybe Afreeca should shut down GSL vs The World and invest that money to actual GSL so that the Korean can make the living. It's stupid that all the foreigners, who already having plenty of money in WCS, also have chance to compete in Korea while Korean cannot play in WCS.
On August 22 2019 00:49 parksonsc wrote: maybe Afreeca should shut down GSL vs The World and invest that money to actual GSL so that the Korean can make the living. It's stupid that all the foreigners, who already having plenty of money in WCS, also have chance to compete in Korea while Korean cannot play in WCS.
At the end of the day Afeeca is a business, they want the highest viewer numbers. We all know that foreigners competing in events like GSL V.S. the world bring the bigger numbers than regular GSL. Keep in mind the numbers are slipping every year, I'm guessing Afeeca does not have the same budget and leeway they had before.
On August 22 2019 02:16 xelnaga_empire wrote: I'm for region locking the GSL and WCS. No foreigners allowed in the GSL and no Koreans allowed in WCS. Seems fair to me.
It would suck for NoRegret and the other foreigners training in Korea though. But it's fair to both sides.
I dont like this approach that something is unfair (or negative) for 1 side, so lets make is unfair (negative) for both sides...
This region lock should be just cancelled. It has served its purpose, Korea scene declined and the level of play got closer. Just let those who would still want to travel and play do that... no harm in it
On August 21 2019 02:44 fishjie wrote: gap closed cause region lock killed korean scene. there are no new up and coming korean players, once the current batch of gsl code s players retires for military it is all over. the end. RIP
What difference does it make for an up and coming player if Stats, Dark, Maru, TY and 4 other top Koreans fly out to a WCS event 4 times a year?
I would love to see region lock removed, so we get to see more cool games, but it would do nothing to help the Korean scene.
It would not result in more people playing or watching sc2 in Korea and it wouldn't bring back Kespa teams or Proleague either. The korean scene is declining, because there is almost no interest in sc2 in Korea. Of course the matchfixing stuff back then didn't help.
If the region lock is so awesome, region lock Korea then? To help the Korean scene, or do we care only for the foreigners and let Korea die? From my view it's the latter and I don't like it at all.
On August 21 2019 04:27 NbaLover wrote:
On August 21 2019 03:05 Musicus wrote:
On August 21 2019 02:44 fishjie wrote: gap closed cause region lock killed korean scene. there are no new up and coming korean players, once the current batch of gsl code s players retires for military it is all over. the end. RIP
What difference does it make for an up and coming player if Stats, Dark, Maru, TY and 4 other top Koreans fly out to a WCS event 4 times a year?
I would love to see region lock removed, so we get to see more cool games, but it would do nothing to help the Korean scene.
It would not result in more people playing or watching sc2 in Korea and it wouldn't bring back Kespa teams or Proleague either. The korean scene is declining, because there is almost no interest in sc2 in Korea. Of course the matchfixing stuff back then didn't help.
High IQ post
Korean scene is dying because SC2 is just not a popular game in Korea for potential new talents. Simple as that
Also I don't feel sorry for the Korean scene anyways. They screwed it up for themselves with that that matchfixing nonsense.
But the "korean elitist" will blame it on region lock, unfair opportunities, blizzard being racist, etc. Those people are in total denial and delusional.
So that's why the studios are empty and no one watches GSL... oh, wait, no, that's not happening.
It's insanely hard to make a living out of SC2 in Korea because you have to fight not only the Koreans, you have to fight the foreigners too. The same damn reason why region lock was created for foreigners. Again, if the region lock works, region lock Korea, screw foreginer house.
Compare viewership to the foreign scene? Yes GSL is quite low (don't use time zone as an excuse)
Even in most TL tournament thread these are less comments in a GSL thread than a WCS thread.
Most of the "korean elitist" have no clue how a business work or any money management skills,
Removing region lock will not improve the Korean scene at all. Whether you like it or not, a foreigner playing in GSL creates a buzz and increases viewership/interest. Is it double standard? Yes, but that's how the real world works.
If the "korean elitists" really want to argue about removing region lock. Please go educate yourself first and read a very great High IQ post regarding this topic posted by Liquid NonY back in (2018 or 2017?) He went in depth explaining a lot of things related.
You mean the foreign English casting channel? Do you have the numbers of Afreeca Korean TV broadcast? Because, sure, let's compare a foreigner tournament in the prime time vs Korean tournament so off the prime time it's not even funny. European viewers have to watch it at work and 'Murricans have to get up early. And yet those numbers aren't down.
But let's return to the viewership. Do. You. Have. The. Numbers? Since you are the one arguing with them, you better have them.
I'm not gonna educate myself from Nony, as Nony isn't the almighty alknowing god and my longterm point is to region lock Korea, so, uh... because who of the Koreans will nowadays travel abroad if they cancel the region lock? Who has the money? How many of them can travel abroad and risk it? They're no longer on rich teams and it's no longer a sure bet for money...
On August 22 2019 02:16 xelnaga_empire wrote: I'm for region locking the GSL and WCS. No foreigners allowed in the GSL and no Koreans allowed in WCS. Seems fair to me.
It would suck for NoRegret and the other foreigners training in Korea though. But it's fair to both sides.
I dont like this approach that something is unfair (or negative) for 1 side, so lets make is unfair (negative) for both sides...
This region lock should be just cancelled. It has served its purpose, Korea scene declined and the level of play got closer. Just let those who would still want to travel and play do that... no harm in it
I agree, the region lock in my opinion will only end up diminishing the skill levels of all players at the end of the day.
On August 22 2019 00:49 parksonsc wrote: maybe Afreeca should shut down GSL vs The World and invest that money to actual GSL so that the Korean can make the living. It's stupid that all the foreigners, who already having plenty of money in WCS, also have chance to compete in Korea while Korean cannot play in WCS.
At the end of the day Afeeca is a business, they want the highest viewer numbers. We all know that foreigners competing in events like GSL V.S. the world bring the bigger numbers than regular GSL. Keep in mind the numbers are slipping every year, I'm guessing Afeeca does not have the same budget and leeway they had before.
i'm going to talk out my ass and say afreeca is not getting viewership for GSL. there are many legit reasons why they're broadcasting on twitch primarily and don't expect anything on their own platform. not getting viewership compared to say their LoL team, ASL, or other games (overwatch etc.) out there that are niche to starcraft fans. the viewership is there--you can see that their GSL videos on youtube are getting hits in the tens of thousands thanks to foreign fans. but what really makes them money as they are their own sponsors?
that is the real question. what is supporting the salaries of the translator, tastosis and the backstage staff? well, it's easy to see that blizzard could have a hand, and that is enough for them. they are not making money for selling eyeballs. they are promised less of a loss when blizzard steps in and contributes monetarily to the effort to keep the tournaments running in the mecha location of esports and the origin point of starcraft.
i want to see it all grow, but we're talking tens of thousands of people spending a sizable amount of money on something afreeca (and other potential TO's like homestory) can market. homestory cup actually has sponsorship and they struggle to keep afloat even with the prestige and loyal fandom.
if you want the scene to grow and attract people, you need people to begin with. you need people who spend money haphazardly and players who log in and don't have to think about whether they want to actually play or not. you need updates that shake the game up and slowly change the way people experience the game for the better, so those players keep coming back and keep spending on the product. DotA 2 is able to have a 33 million dollar battle pass because it is building on a formula that sports gambling and spending on digital goods for ten million different players. the scope is not even close and yet they're similar games. the battle pass introduces more cosmetics in batches, which is what sc2 is now doing with their warchest for loyal fans.
the playerbase portion is frankly not what sc2 has anymore. it never had the frivolous spending part of it in the first place. it was there when the game first released. there was this huge bubble and has popped ever since. Gomtv's GSL was not sustainable, and they had to sell to afreeca who has way more income lining their pockets to afford a fraction of the cost of today's GSL.
it would take a massive effort to turn things around for any region and we should already feel blessed that the foreign scene saw new players with rising stars, and some more global popularity.
On August 21 2019 02:44 fishjie wrote: gap closed cause region lock killed korean scene. there are no new up and coming korean players, once the current batch of gsl code s players retires for military it is all over. the end. RIP
What difference does it make for an up and coming player if Stats, Dark, Maru, TY and 4 other top Koreans fly out to a WCS event 4 times a year?
I would love to see region lock removed, so we get to see more cool games, but it would do nothing to help the Korean scene.
It would not result in more people playing or watching sc2 in Korea and it wouldn't bring back Kespa teams or Proleague either. The korean scene is declining, because there is almost no interest in sc2 in Korea. Of course the matchfixing stuff back then didn't help.
If the region lock is so awesome, region lock Korea then? To help the Korean scene, or do we care only for the foreigners and let Korea die? From my view it's the latter and I don't like it at all.
On August 21 2019 04:27 NbaLover wrote:
On August 21 2019 03:05 Musicus wrote:
On August 21 2019 02:44 fishjie wrote: gap closed cause region lock killed korean scene. there are no new up and coming korean players, once the current batch of gsl code s players retires for military it is all over. the end. RIP
What difference does it make for an up and coming player if Stats, Dark, Maru, TY and 4 other top Koreans fly out to a WCS event 4 times a year?
I would love to see region lock removed, so we get to see more cool games, but it would do nothing to help the Korean scene.
It would not result in more people playing or watching sc2 in Korea and it wouldn't bring back Kespa teams or Proleague either. The korean scene is declining, because there is almost no interest in sc2 in Korea. Of course the matchfixing stuff back then didn't help.
High IQ post
Korean scene is dying because SC2 is just not a popular game in Korea for potential new talents. Simple as that
Also I don't feel sorry for the Korean scene anyways. They screwed it up for themselves with that that matchfixing nonsense.
But the "korean elitist" will blame it on region lock, unfair opportunities, blizzard being racist, etc. Those people are in total denial and delusional.
So that's why the studios are empty and no one watches GSL... oh, wait, no, that's not happening.
It's insanely hard to make a living out of SC2 in Korea because you have to fight not only the Koreans, you have to fight the foreigners too. The same damn reason why region lock was created for foreigners. Again, if the region lock works, region lock Korea, screw foreginer house.
Compare viewership to the foreign scene? Yes GSL is quite low (don't use time zone as an excuse)
Even in most TL tournament thread these are less comments in a GSL thread than a WCS thread.
Most of the "korean elitist" have no clue how a business work or any money management skills,
Removing region lock will not improve the Korean scene at all. Whether you like it or not, a foreigner playing in GSL creates a buzz and increases viewership/interest. Is it double standard? Yes, but that's how the real world works.
If the "korean elitists" really want to argue about removing region lock. Please go educate yourself first and read a very great High IQ post regarding this topic posted by Liquid NonY back in (2018 or 2017?) He went in depth explaining a lot of things related.
You mean the foreign English casting channel? Do you have the numbers of Afreeca Korean TV broadcast? Because, sure, let's compare a foreigner tournament in the prime time vs Korean tournament so off the prime time it's not even funny. European viewers have to watch it at work and 'Murricans have to get up early. And yet those numbers aren't down.
But let's return to the viewership. Do. You. Have. The. Numbers? Since you are the one arguing with them, you better have them.
I'm not gonna educate myself from Nony, as Nony isn't the almighty alknowing god and my longterm point is to region lock Korea, so, uh... because who of the Koreans will nowadays travel abroad if they cancel the region lock? Who has the money? How many of them can travel abroad and risk it? They're no longer on rich teams and it's no longer a sure bet for money...
Ya the viewership number is lower than foreign scene period and fact. If you want the exact number go do your own research boy.
Like i said don't use time zone as an excuse. Since you claim the viewership in Korea is so high, so with your logic why is the korean scene dying? If you claim it has such a high viewership? seriously gtfo with that nonsense.
You don't want to educate yourself? Sure keep staying in denial and believe blizzard/foreign are killing "Korean sc2 scene". Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Oh geez I wonder why these korean cant travel abroad? It couldn't be there no teams/sponsors that want to support sc2 in korea because it just isn't a popular e-sport anymore. Don't want the risk due to the constant matchfixing scandal in sc2.
On August 21 2019 02:44 fishjie wrote: gap closed cause region lock killed korean scene. there are no new up and coming korean players, once the current batch of gsl code s players retires for military it is all over. the end. RIP
What difference does it make for an up and coming player if Stats, Dark, Maru, TY and 4 other top Koreans fly out to a WCS event 4 times a year?
I would love to see region lock removed, so we get to see more cool games, but it would do nothing to help the Korean scene.
It would not result in more people playing or watching sc2 in Korea and it wouldn't bring back Kespa teams or Proleague either. The korean scene is declining, because there is almost no interest in sc2 in Korea. Of course the matchfixing stuff back then didn't help.
If the region lock is so awesome, region lock Korea then? To help the Korean scene, or do we care only for the foreigners and let Korea die? From my view it's the latter and I don't like it at all.
On August 21 2019 04:27 NbaLover wrote:
On August 21 2019 03:05 Musicus wrote:
On August 21 2019 02:44 fishjie wrote: gap closed cause region lock killed korean scene. there are no new up and coming korean players, once the current batch of gsl code s players retires for military it is all over. the end. RIP
What difference does it make for an up and coming player if Stats, Dark, Maru, TY and 4 other top Koreans fly out to a WCS event 4 times a year?
I would love to see region lock removed, so we get to see more cool games, but it would do nothing to help the Korean scene.
It would not result in more people playing or watching sc2 in Korea and it wouldn't bring back Kespa teams or Proleague either. The korean scene is declining, because there is almost no interest in sc2 in Korea. Of course the matchfixing stuff back then didn't help.
High IQ post
Korean scene is dying because SC2 is just not a popular game in Korea for potential new talents. Simple as that
Also I don't feel sorry for the Korean scene anyways. They screwed it up for themselves with that that matchfixing nonsense.
But the "korean elitist" will blame it on region lock, unfair opportunities, blizzard being racist, etc. Those people are in total denial and delusional.
So that's why the studios are empty and no one watches GSL... oh, wait, no, that's not happening.
It's insanely hard to make a living out of SC2 in Korea because you have to fight not only the Koreans, you have to fight the foreigners too. The same damn reason why region lock was created for foreigners. Again, if the region lock works, region lock Korea, screw foreginer house.
Compare viewership to the foreign scene? Yes GSL is quite low (don't use time zone as an excuse)
Even in most TL tournament thread these are less comments in a GSL thread than a WCS thread.
Most of the "korean elitist" have no clue how a business work or any money management skills,
Removing region lock will not improve the Korean scene at all. Whether you like it or not, a foreigner playing in GSL creates a buzz and increases viewership/interest. Is it double standard? Yes, but that's how the real world works.
If the "korean elitists" really want to argue about removing region lock. Please go educate yourself first and read a very great High IQ post regarding this topic posted by Liquid NonY back in (2018 or 2017?) He went in depth explaining a lot of things related.
You mean the foreign English casting channel? Do you have the numbers of Afreeca Korean TV broadcast? Because, sure, let's compare a foreigner tournament in the prime time vs Korean tournament so off the prime time it's not even funny. European viewers have to watch it at work and 'Murricans have to get up early. And yet those numbers aren't down.
But let's return to the viewership. Do. You. Have. The. Numbers? Since you are the one arguing with them, you better have them.
I'm not gonna educate myself from Nony, as Nony isn't the almighty alknowing god and my longterm point is to region lock Korea, so, uh... because who of the Koreans will nowadays travel abroad if they cancel the region lock? Who has the money? How many of them can travel abroad and risk it? They're no longer on rich teams and it's no longer a sure bet for money...
Ya the viewership number is lower than foreign scene period and fact. If you want the exact number go do your own research boy.
Like i said don't use time zone as an excuse. Since you claim the viewership in Korea is so high, so with your logic why is the korean scene dying? If you claim it has such a high viewership? seriously gtfo with that nonsense.
You don't want to educate yourself? Sure keep staying in denial and believe blizzard/foreign are killing "Korean sc2 scene". Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Oh geez I wonder why these korean cant travel abroad? It couldn't be there no teams/sponsors that want to support sc2 in korea because it just isn't a popular e-sport anymore. Don't want the risk due to the constant matchfixing scandal in sc2.
Korean killed the korean scene themselves.
I didn't say it's high, if anything I said in the past it's stable. It was down for a while and it grew back, the interest is there, it's just very hard to make living out of SC2 because of the income issues. It was mentioned gazillion times already. You need to get over Koreans AND foreigners into Code S on a stable basis. That's not an easy feat to do.
Edit> So you have nothing, you just compare foreign viewership and that's it for a Korean league. That's like saying - hey, Czech viewership of the Bundesliga is falling down therefore the Bundesliga is in a dire state(while it's the German League for Germans).
Edit2> if you want me to read somthing, you know what you can do? Link it. That was a small jab but you didn't get it. I'm not gonna find some post from someone which I don't object against as I am using a simple logic - if region lock works for foreigners then region lock Korea and move foreigners away.
I haven't read any of this thread but to me it's pretty simple why there are no new koreans popping up and europe has slowly got stronger
The region lock has slowly allowed europeans/americans to build on each others skill and get better and better, events like challenger act as a lower league which allows good players to get experience which then allows them to become great players. It also allows lower players to get paid to enable them to keep playing (remember this is peoples jobs) Serral would not be where he is now without experience, and if there was no region lock and he got stomped by the best players in the world at that time he would gain less experience as he would be knocked out sooner.
the korean scene (GSL) is actively HARMING their scene because of the design of GSL. There is no paid qualifier (like an old code A) so even if your good enough to play in the qualifier you still don't get a reward until GSL. In essence this means there is no lower league.. straight to the top tier without any financial backing or reward. That's insanely hard.
THEN when you do qualify because of the shitty 2 picks for the seed 1 player system, Maru picks you first for his group and you get bumped out 2-0 in the first group stage, that doesn't really give you much experience or stage time to improve. Something where like the top Code A player would play vs the 16th seed would give them more of a chance. I do see players in the korean scene like Armani who have a chance but the GSL set up makes it SO hard for them.
when region lock wasn't a thing lesser South korean players would use WCS as a training ground as there is no training ground in korea and since their base level used to be higher it was stompy and made it harder for non koreans to compete. The problem is that there is no training ground for south koreans. It's GSL or... ? Olimoleague?
of course. Is it possible for TIME to beat soO 3-0 two or three years ago? But he do it now. I think there are two reasons. first, Korean players are lazy now, as I know, they will not practise a lot if there is no big tournament to play. Then foreigners become stronger these years. Serral is fantastic, he can beat anyone. but you shouldnt ignore the improvement of other players such as Elazer, TIME and SpeCial.
On August 23 2019 18:55 La1 wrote: I haven't read any of this thread but to me it's pretty simple why there are no new koreans popping up and europe has slowly got stronger
The region lock has slowly allowed europeans/americans to build on each others skill and get better and better, events like challenger act as a lower league which allows good players to get experience which then allows them to become great players. It also allows lower players to get paid to enable them to keep playing (remember this is peoples jobs) Serral would not be where he is now without experience, and if there was no region lock and he got stomped by the best players in the world at that time he would gain less experience as he would be knocked out sooner.
the korean scene (GSL) is actively HARMING their scene because of the design of GSL. There is no paid qualifier (like an old code A) so even if your good enough to play in the qualifier you still don't get a reward until GSL. In essence this means there is no lower league.. straight to the top tier without any financial backing or reward. That's insanely hard.
THEN when you do qualify because of the shitty 2 picks for the seed 1 player system, Maru picks you first for his group and you get bumped out 2-0 in the first group stage, that doesn't really give you much experience or stage time to improve. Something where like the top Code A player would play vs the 16th seed would give them more of a chance. I do see players in the korean scene like Armani who have a chance but the GSL set up makes it SO hard for them.
when region lock wasn't a thing lesser South korean players would use WCS as a training ground as there is no training ground in korea and since their base level used to be higher it was stompy and made it harder for non koreans to compete. The problem is that there is no training ground for south koreans. It's GSL or... ? Olimoleague?
I don’t buy this at all.
Neebs peak was when he was practicing like a madman in Korea. We are talking about a foreigner winning a kespa cup something even serral hasn’t accomplished.
When Neeb decided to just farm WCS events for cash his play took a dive.
TIME is rising fast - and where does he practice a lot? With Koreans server.
Special became better after training in Korea, good friends with TY etc.
Even Reynor has gsl experience.
Of course there is Scarlett too
What we see here is that the majority of the top foreigners are or have been very active in the Korean scene.
The problem for Koreans is that there is nowhere for new talent to prosper since the Korean old guard dominates the scene. Koreans should be allowed to easily participate in WCS.
Edit : disregard my post. I’m drunk and misread your post
assuming sc2 keeps going next year which i hope it does. opening the floadgates letting all koreans compete in every WCS would have been totally fair if non koreans would not have to live in korea for competing in gsl. but koreans not being allowed to compete in WCS is also unfair.
currently the system is more unfair for koreans than foreigners by far.
just a wild suggestion, would letting every GSL player compete in 1 single WCS each a year be a idea? + letting the koreans that are not good enough to get into the GSL be allowed to compete in WCS be a idea? cause if some korean that cant even get into the GSL cant compete in WCS it is totally unfair. since its GSL or nothing.
On August 24 2019 03:04 Balkow wrote: assuming sc2 keeps going next year which i hope it does. opening the floadgates letting all koreans compete in every WCS would have been totally fair if non koreans would not have to live in korea for competing in gsl. but koreans not being allowed to compete in WCS is also unfair.
currently the system is more unfair for koreans than foreigners by far.
just a wild suggestion, would letting every GSL player compete in 1 single WCS each a year be a idea? + letting the koreans that are not good enough to get into the GSL be allowed to compete in WCS be a idea? cause if some korean that cant even get into the GSL cant compete in WCS it is totally unfair. since its GSL or nothing.
Yes and no. For some, they might get money and experience that they otherwise would not have got. However, and this has been a problem for the last few years when people talking about unlocking the region, the only players would would benefit would be those who already don't need help.
The people would would make it far in the GSL would be the ones who make it far in WCS. We're long past the point where being in Code A (qualifiers at this point) guarantees you any success in WCS. If you struggle to get into the GSL, you're going to struggle to make it in the playoffs of WCS.
Quite honestly, players like Speed, Trust, Losira, or even TRUE, wouldn't really do all that well in WCS. They might get ro24 maybe, but I really don't think they'd get any further than ro16.
On August 24 2019 03:04 Balkow wrote: assuming sc2 keeps going next year which i hope it does. opening the floadgates letting all koreans compete in every WCS would have been totally fair if non koreans would not have to live in korea for competing in gsl. but koreans not being allowed to compete in WCS is also unfair.
currently the system is more unfair for koreans than foreigners by far.
just a wild suggestion, would letting every GSL player compete in 1 single WCS each a year be a idea? + letting the koreans that are not good enough to get into the GSL be allowed to compete in WCS be a idea? cause if some korean that cant even get into the GSL cant compete in WCS it is totally unfair. since its GSL or nothing.
Yes and no. For some, they might get money and experience that they otherwise would not have got. However, and this has been a problem for the last few years when people talking about unlocking the region, the only players would would benefit would be those who already don't need help.
The people would would make it far in the GSL would be the ones who make it far in WCS. We're long past the point where being in Code A (qualifiers at this point) guarantees you any success in WCS. If you struggle to get into the GSL, you're going to struggle to make it in the playoffs of WCS.
Quite honestly, players like Speed, Trust, Losira, or even TRUE, wouldn't really do all that well in WCS. They might get ro24 maybe, but I really don't think they'd get any further than ro16.
Essentially this, and why I don’t think unlocking the regions would help the people who need the help.
Just looking at games I’ve seen this year, I really don’t fancy the chances of guys in that bracket if they did play in WCS.
I think by and large most accept Serral’s level as legit, depending on bias to Korea/foreign land that the Neeb/Scarlett/Special/Neeb etc bracket are also on a level above some of the current Code S gatekeepers. Some I think underrate the guys like Showtime because he hasn’t spent much time in Korea, or a guy like Heromarine who hasn’t.
There’s a whole bunch of guys who are slightly below that level, or improving up to it that maybe peripheral Koreans can absolute best in a series, but beating a whole load of them in a row at a tournament, and hoping to avoid the S class foreigners just seems incredibly unlikely to me.
[/QUOTE] Yes and no. For some, they might get money and experience that they otherwise would not have got. However, and this has been a problem for the last few years when people talking about unlocking the region, the only players would would benefit would be those who already don't need help.
The people would would make it far in the GSL would be the ones who make it far in WCS. We're long past the point where being in Code A (qualifiers at this point) guarantees you any success in WCS. If you struggle to get into the GSL, you're going to struggle to make it in the playoffs of WCS.
Quite honestly, players like Speed, Trust, Losira, or even TRUE, wouldn't really do all that well in WCS. They might get ro24 maybe, but I really don't think they'd get any further than ro16. [/QUOTE]
thanks for the reply, i really wonder if they could make a system were the bad koreans still could compete in WCS. some sort of softlock. if you fell in RO32 of gsl, you can compete in WCS. but if you made it to RO16 you cant. if you did not make it into GSL you can compete in WCS. i really hope for some softlock and not a pure region lock for korea. the fact that we almost always get ZVZ finals in WCS does not make things better.
EPT
