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I think the gap has closed a little between foreigners and Korea, especially Europe. Korea is still better than the rest of the world, this is undeniable. But the gap has closed a little.
I suspect since the collapse of ProLeague and the collapse of the KESPA teams (with Jin Air the only team left), the practice environment for Koreans is not as it once was during the ProLeague and KESPA days.
On the other hand, the WCS region lock has done wonders for the foreign scene. I suspect the foreign pros are getting more chances to get prize money from tournaments, and this is motivating them to practice harder. At the same time, in the Europe scene, there are new up and coming players like Reynor and Clem, adding to the competitive environment of the Europe scene. Conversely, I don't know of any young and upcoming Korean players.
In cross tournaments that involve Koreans and foreigners (especially European players), the foreigners are performing quite well against the Koreans. You have HSC where the Koreans lost to many European players at HSC, although the finalists were Soo and Innovation. Scarlett won IEM Pyeongchang, denying sOs in the finals, while Elazer denied Zest in the same tournament. Then Scarlett made it as far as the Round of 8 in the GSL, which hasn't been done by a foreigner since Naniwa I think. In this season's GSL, you have Neeb and Reynor making it to the Round of 16, and Special came close. And in online tournaments, you see the Koreans losing to foreigners every now and then (although Koreans tend to win more in online tournaments). And of course, there were some upsets by European players at GSL vs The World.
I suspect the gap will continue to close because some of the top Korean pros now are getting older. For example, Classic is a few months from turning to 27 years of age. And there doesn't seem to be any new Korean youngsters coming through.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing if the gap is closing because the viewership has gone up for SC2 this year. If the closing gap between foreigners and Korea leads to more viewers, and therefore more sponsors and money injected into the SC2 scene, then all the better for the SC2 pro scene. So I am in favor of the region lock, for the overall health of professional SC2.
Edit: Serral had this to say about the EU server:
I think you can get pretty good with European practice, especially against Zergs and Protoss players. With the practice I’m getting against them, I can beat anyone. We’re lacking a bit in Terran players—we have some, uThermal and souL—but not too many. So I have been mainly just theorycrafting and thinking about how to play the game, ‘what are the correct things to do?’ and watching the Korean games.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/536156-winner-interview-gsl-vs-the-world-finals
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This obsession with The Gap is suffocating. Are there good foreign players? Yes. Are there good Korean players? Yes. Would mixing the two be good for the foreign scene just yet? Probably not for anybody not named Serral.
Trying to shoehorn the average skills of foreigners and Koreans into a single quantity "The Gap" is really tiresome and draws attention away from meaningful questions and courses of action (precisely, what action is best for both the Korean and foreign scene, what will produce the highest levels of both spectatorship and play). I think these are questions that can be addressed without reference and deference to "The Gap."
Edit: I absolutely think Serral is competitive with the top Koreans, and Neeb's run was definitely not as impressive. I don't think any of the other foreigners are quite there yet. The proper course of action for such a dynamic, where Serral is rather unopposed in the foreign scene, is a very interesting question and a much more pertinent one than last year.
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On August 05 2018 21:03 yubo56 wrote:
Would mixing the two be good for the foreign scene just yet? Probably not for anybody not named Serral.
I don't think it's a good idea to remove region lock. Let the foreigners that want to, compete in the GSL. If one day, foreigners are on par with Korea, then remove the region lock. Until then, the region lock should remain because it is helping the SC2 scene recover.
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On August 05 2018 21:06 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 21:03 yubo56 wrote:
Would mixing the two be good for the foreign scene just yet? Probably not for anybody not named Serral.
I don't think it's a good idea to remove region lock. Let the foreigners that want to, compete in the GSL. If one day, foreigners are on par with Korea, then remove the region lock. Until then, the region lock should remain because it is helping the SC2 scene recover.
It's helping the non-Korean scene. It's not helping the Korean scene at all that the region-lock is only in one direction though.
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Imho HSC ,Katowice and GSL vs the World team competition just showed how Koreans are still dominant in this game. If you remove Serral from the game, basically ro8 would still be all koreans without region lock
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The gap didn't close. Serral just jumped it.
The gap between koreans and every other foreigner is the same as serral vs every other foreigner.
Look at Katowice, wesg, even this gsl vs the world. Foreigners are doing no better than 2 years ago. Maybe even slightly worse other than serral.
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On August 05 2018 21:07 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 21:06 xelnaga_empire wrote:On August 05 2018 21:03 yubo56 wrote:
Would mixing the two be good for the foreign scene just yet? Probably not for anybody not named Serral.
I don't think it's a good idea to remove region lock. Let the foreigners that want to, compete in the GSL. If one day, foreigners are on par with Korea, then remove the region lock. Until then, the region lock should remain because it is helping the SC2 scene recover. It's helping the non-Korean scene. It's not helping the Korean scene at all that the region-lock is only in one direction though.
That's unfortunate for the Korean scene. But SC2 viewership numbers are on the rise. This means more sponsors, potentially more tournaments with better prize pools, and ultimately, more money for SC2 pros around the world. It may even lead to some of the Korean pros getting sponsors. I just saw that Classic got a sponsor. And don't forget that Innovation got sponsored by OGaming TV.
I would rather have a sustainable pro scene than Koreans stomping on everyone, leading to the death of the SC2 pro scene. Since ProLeague disbanded, the SC2 scene needs more money. More viewership will ultimately lead to more money for SC2 pros.
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On August 05 2018 21:06 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 21:03 yubo56 wrote:
Would mixing the two be good for the foreign scene just yet? Probably not for anybody not named Serral.
I don't think it's a good idea to remove region lock. Let the foreigners that want to, compete in the GSL. If one day, foreigners are on par with Korea, then remove the region lock. Until then, the region lock should remain because it is helping the SC2 scene recover.
Is it good to have tournaments that are decided before the event has started though?
WCS events right now are basically just giving Serral a free trophy.
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On August 05 2018 20:57 xelnaga_empire wrote:
I suspect the gap will continue to close because some of the top Korean pros now are getting older. For example, Classic is a few months from turning to 27 years of age. And there doesn't seem to be any new Korean youngsters coming through.
Well, wasn't Nestea like 30 years old when he won? I'm not sure age here means anything. It's more about if there are new players and incentive as you mention.
Do you think we'll reach a point when the Korean scene is mostly gone and StarCraft 2 turns into a game which is dominated by foreigners? In which case, they shouldn't be called foreigners anymore as it will be too archaic. :D
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On August 05 2018 21:18 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 20:57 xelnaga_empire wrote:
I suspect the gap will continue to close because some of the top Korean pros now are getting older. For example, Classic is a few months from turning to 27 years of age. And there doesn't seem to be any new Korean youngsters coming through.
Well, wasn't Nestea like 30 years old when he won? I'm not sure age here means anything. It's more about if there are new players and incentive as you mention.
NesTea had his military service done before he started playing SC2. Age and therefore military service will ultimately retire many of the now top Koreans in the next few years.
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Isn't the gap not just basically this now: Koreans, Serral [........G.......................A.....................P............] foreigners
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On August 05 2018 21:18 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 20:57 xelnaga_empire wrote:
I suspect the gap will continue to close because some of the top Korean pros now are getting older. For example, Classic is a few months from turning to 27 years of age. And there doesn't seem to be any new Korean youngsters coming through.
Well, wasn't Nestea like 30 years old when he won? I'm not sure age here means anything. It's more about if there are new players and incentive as you mention. Do you think we'll reach a point when the Korean scene is mostly gone and StarCraft 2 turns into a game which is dominated by foreigners? In which case, they shouldn't be called foreigners anymore as it will be too archaic. :D
Well, in BW the oldest player who ever won an OSL was Jangbi with 23 y as the older players usually got overtaken by younger ones. Right now the only players younger than that are Maru, Solar and Dark.
Also INnoVation himself admitted that he feels his mechanics getting worse with increasing age. + Show Spoiler +
Nestea's success can be explained by it being early in the expansion where the game wasn't figured out at all and mechanics weren't that important.
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Czech Republic12132 Posts
On August 05 2018 21:13 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 21:07 Elentos wrote:On August 05 2018 21:06 xelnaga_empire wrote:On August 05 2018 21:03 yubo56 wrote:
Would mixing the two be good for the foreign scene just yet? Probably not for anybody not named Serral.
I don't think it's a good idea to remove region lock. Let the foreigners that want to, compete in the GSL. If one day, foreigners are on par with Korea, then remove the region lock. Until then, the region lock should remain because it is helping the SC2 scene recover. It's helping the non-Korean scene. It's not helping the Korean scene at all that the region-lock is only in one direction though. That's unfortunate for the Korean scene. But SC2 viewership numbers are on the rise. This means more sponsors, potentially more tournaments with better prize pools, and ultimately, more money for SC2 pros around the world. It may even lead to some of the Korean pros getting sponsors. I just saw that Classic got a sponsor. And don't forget that Innovation got sponsored by OGaming TV. I would rather have a sustainable pro scene than Koreans stomping on everyone, leading to the death of the SC2 pro scene. Since ProLeague disbanded, the SC2 scene needs more money. More viewership will ultimately lead to more money for SC2 pros.
Without a healthy Korean scene there will be no Korean vs Foreigners, the numbers will eventually fade out, many people will stop watching after Korean scene will be dismantled and without region lock it will probably soon happen.
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Korea 6-1 World
Gap closed for Serral only.
Charoisaur, i dont think Stats is any weaker than 3 years ago, you overestimate the body factor and underestimate the lassitude that inevitably comes with time. 
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Against foreigner and Korea*
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serral closed it, but serral is an anomaly. wouldnt be surprised if he is some kind of savant. for the rest, nothing has changed and they are worlds apart from the korean scene as usual.
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On August 05 2018 21:27 DieuCure wrote:
Korea 6-1 World
Gap closed for Serral only.
Probably would have been 7-1 if they played the last game. Which was the result of the team match last year.
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Serral Bonjwa confirmed. So dominant.
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The map was a legit one at least this year Elentos, last year it was a proxy or something like that against TY
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EPT
IEM Season XII - World Championship
