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On December 25 2017 11:47 StarscreamG1 wrote:
I'm a random player. Can anybody still play bio versus Zerg? With these "visible" mines?
Below the pro level you can do whatever you want, including bio vs Zerg. At the pro level, bio is not really viable and mech is standard.
Though the mine nerf had little impact on TvZ. The big change that killed bio in TvZ was the hydra buff. which caused Hydra/Ling/Bane to become the dominant Zerg build against Terran as well as Protoss.
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Sure you can do whatever you want below pro lvl, but now you lose against weaker players than before.
So it means nothing, you can also play whatever you want at pro lvl and lose anyway.
I don't understand your reasoning.
Even TY said that below 6k mmr terrans should play mech double upgrades and gg.
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Well they needed to buff hydras, especially as through whole pack of changes in Terran arsenal they threw mutas into oblivion in this matchup. I wonder how Z could ever win vs Terran concidering that Mutas are non existing strategy and if they nerfed hydras. Yeah. I bet it would be fine to wreck all Zergs on ladder with few drops...PvZ would be fine as well right? My god you are all so biased. Every time Zerg gets viable shit, I hear T and P whine. You got bunch of things that irritates Zergs as well, be aware of that.
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On December 25 2017 10:51 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2017 17:28 Tyrhanius wrote:
Just a reminder that :
Rogue lost vs Bunny, Dark lost vs SoS, impact and solar vs Innovation, byul lost vs Zest, Soo lost vs Classic and gumiho.
That's clear Zerg isn't OP in any MU. Just a reminder that in that very same qualifier, exactly one Terran won exactly one series that was not a TvT (Gumiho beat soO). Every other time a Terran played a Protoss or Zerg, they lost. So TY, Maru, Inno, etc all failed to win a series over any Protoss or Zerg (mostly Protoss). Oh, and both qualifying matches were PvP, which obviously led to both qualified players being Protoss. Before the qualifier I was thinking Protoss needed some help, afterward I'm thinking some nerfs might be in order, especially with PvT. The IEM qualifier didn't have much in the way of PvZ, though I hear Protoss still struggles quite a bit there. Regardless of the actual balance state. we most likely won't get any changes until around January 5th or so, what with the holiday season.
Why lying like that and say there is only a single non TvT won by a T ?
Except Bunny 2-1 Dear, Gumiho 2-1 Creator, innovation has beaten solar and impact, Maru 2-1Patience, Ryung 2-0 Trap, + Bunny vs Rogue and gumiho vs soo.
We all can see good T are all stopped by a good Protoss, no need to lie and to pretend they're doing worst that they actually do.
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exactly one Terran won exactly one series that was not a TvT (Gumiho beat soO). Every other time a Terran played a Protoss or Zerg, they lost. So TY, Maru, Inno, etc all failed to win a series over any Protoss or Zerg (mostly Protoss).
Except Bunny 2-1 Dear, Gumiho 2-1 Creator, innovation has beaten solar and impact, Maru 2-1Patience, Ryung 2-0 Trap, + Bunny vs Rogue and gumiho vs soo.
We have to stop doing such things. If Stephano wins 10 matches, this also means any /all zerg/s have to lose 10 matches (together), so we have 50% zerg winrate.
This also means you want punishment for better players and compensations for other zergs.
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A year ago it was the other way around, TvP was heavily T favored mainly due to the buffed tank (50 -> 70 damage to armored, which most of the protoss units are).
But I don't remember the community whining so much about it. I'd like to know what is different this time then a year ago...
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On December 25 2017 22:04 bulya wrote:
A year ago it was the other way around, TvP was heavily T favored mainly due to the buffed tank (50 -> 70 damage to armored, which most of the protoss units are).
But I don't remember the community whining so much about it. I'd like to know what is different this time then a year ago...
Because aligulac winrates don't tell the whole story. In GSL season 1 2017 (of which the majority was played before any patches) the TvP winrate was actually in favor of Protoss and also Stats reached the finals of IEM Gyeongi and IEM Katowice beating multiple top terrans in the process.
Now we haven't really seen any high level tournaments yet (except qualifiers) but just from watching/playing (actually using my brain instead of mindlessly looking at statistics) the balance seems to be much worse than back then.
I can't really imagine any terrans advancing far in big tournaments seeing how they get slaughtered in qualifiers/online tournaments.
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On December 25 2017 22:59 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2017 22:04 bulya wrote:
A year ago it was the other way around, TvP was heavily T favored mainly due to the buffed tank (50 -> 70 damage to armored, which most of the protoss units are).
But I don't remember the community whining so much about it. I'd like to know what is different this time then a year ago... Because aligulac winrates don't tell the whole story. In GSL season 1 2017 (of which the majority was played before any patches) the TvP winrate was actually in favor of Protoss and also Stats reached the finals of IEM Gyeongi and IEM Katowice beating multiple top terrans in the process. Now we haven't really seen any high level tournaments yet (except qualifiers) but just from watching/playing (actually using my brain instead of mindlessly looking at statistics) the balance seems to be much worse than back then. I can't really imagine any terrans advancing far in big tournaments seeing how they get slaughtered in qualifiers/online tournaments.
Well from using my brain, it seems like the balance isn't much worse than back then.
Sure, you don't want to blindly use data, but I can just as easily claim that PvT was more imbalanced then as you can claim it is more imbalanced now.
Besides, Stats beat Maru 3-1 to get swept 0-4 in the first IEM. He did much better in Katowice because the balance was much better, going 2-1 TY, 3-1 Byun, and 3-4 TY. Also, PvT was in P favour on GSL Season 1 because Stats won. Take away his 3rd win against Innovation, and suddenly the winrates are even.
Now, I'm not going to claim that T isn't underpowered compared to P, but if they maintain a 45% winrate, then that's pretty close.
EDIT: Though, to be fair, if they struggle versus Zerg and Protoss as opposed to just Protoss, then yes, they will not go far in tournaments.
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On December 25 2017 23:59 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2017 22:59 Charoisaur wrote:On December 25 2017 22:04 bulya wrote:
A year ago it was the other way around, TvP was heavily T favored mainly due to the buffed tank (50 -> 70 damage to armored, which most of the protoss units are).
But I don't remember the community whining so much about it. I'd like to know what is different this time then a year ago... Because aligulac winrates don't tell the whole story. In GSL season 1 2017 (of which the majority was played before any patches) the TvP winrate was actually in favor of Protoss and also Stats reached the finals of IEM Gyeongi and IEM Katowice beating multiple top terrans in the process. Now we haven't really seen any high level tournaments yet (except qualifiers) but just from watching/playing (actually using my brain instead of mindlessly looking at statistics) the balance seems to be much worse than back then. I can't really imagine any terrans advancing far in big tournaments seeing how they get slaughtered in qualifiers/online tournaments. Well from using my brain, it seems like the balance isn't much worse than back then. Sure, you don't want to blindly use data, but I can just as easily claim that PvT was more imbalanced then as you can claim it is more imbalanced now. Besides, Stats beat Maru 3-1 to get swept 0-4 in the first IEM. He did much better in Katowice because the balance was much better, going 2-1 TY, 3-1 Byun, and 3-4 TY. Also, PvT was in P favour on GSL Season 1 because Stats won. Take away his 3rd win against Innovation, and suddenly the winrates are even. Now, I'm not going to claim that T isn't underpowered compared to P, but if they maintain a 45% winrate, then that's pretty close. EDIT: Though, to be fair, if they struggle versus Zerg and Protoss as opposed to just Protoss, then yes, they will not go far in tournaments.
You may be right, we have to wait until tournaments start before we can draw conclusive evidence about the state of PvT.
I just think TvP in early 2017 was not nearly as bad as people quoting the 41% aligulac winrate want to believe.
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On December 26 2017 00:31 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2017 23:59 FrkFrJss wrote:On December 25 2017 22:59 Charoisaur wrote:On December 25 2017 22:04 bulya wrote:
A year ago it was the other way around, TvP was heavily T favored mainly due to the buffed tank (50 -> 70 damage to armored, which most of the protoss units are).
But I don't remember the community whining so much about it. I'd like to know what is different this time then a year ago... Because aligulac winrates don't tell the whole story. In GSL season 1 2017 (of which the majority was played before any patches) the TvP winrate was actually in favor of Protoss and also Stats reached the finals of IEM Gyeongi and IEM Katowice beating multiple top terrans in the process. Now we haven't really seen any high level tournaments yet (except qualifiers) but just from watching/playing (actually using my brain instead of mindlessly looking at statistics) the balance seems to be much worse than back then. I can't really imagine any terrans advancing far in big tournaments seeing how they get slaughtered in qualifiers/online tournaments. Well from using my brain, it seems like the balance isn't much worse than back then. Sure, you don't want to blindly use data, but I can just as easily claim that PvT was more imbalanced then as you can claim it is more imbalanced now. Besides, Stats beat Maru 3-1 to get swept 0-4 in the first IEM. He did much better in Katowice because the balance was much better, going 2-1 TY, 3-1 Byun, and 3-4 TY. Also, PvT was in P favour on GSL Season 1 because Stats won. Take away his 3rd win against Innovation, and suddenly the winrates are even. Now, I'm not going to claim that T isn't underpowered compared to P, but if they maintain a 45% winrate, then that's pretty close. EDIT: Though, to be fair, if they struggle versus Zerg and Protoss as opposed to just Protoss, then yes, they will not go far in tournaments. You may be right, we have to wait until tournaments start before we can draw conclusive evidence about the state of PvT. I just think TvP in early 2017 was not nearly as bad as people quoting the 41% aligulac winrate want to believe.
No, I think we can conclude there is imbalance, but the extent of the imbalance is in question. Is it a 48/52 - 46/54 or is it like 45/55 and worse? And yes, the 41% winrate is probably overstated...though Protoss was having a really difficult time with liberators.
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On December 25 2017 18:07 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2017 10:51 pvsnp wrote:On December 24 2017 17:28 Tyrhanius wrote:
Just a reminder that :
Rogue lost vs Bunny, Dark lost vs SoS, impact and solar vs Innovation, byul lost vs Zest, Soo lost vs Classic and gumiho.
That's clear Zerg isn't OP in any MU. Just a reminder that in that very same qualifier, exactly one Terran won exactly one series that was not a TvT (Gumiho beat soO). Every other time a Terran played a Protoss or Zerg, they lost. So TY, Maru, Inno, etc all failed to win a series over any Protoss or Zerg (mostly Protoss). Oh, and both qualifying matches were PvP, which obviously led to both qualified players being Protoss. Before the qualifier I was thinking Protoss needed some help, afterward I'm thinking some nerfs might be in order, especially with PvT. The IEM qualifier didn't have much in the way of PvZ, though I hear Protoss still struggles quite a bit there. Regardless of the actual balance state. we most likely won't get any changes until around January 5th or so, what with the holiday season. Why lying like that and say there is only a single non TvT won by a T ? Except Bunny 2-1 Dear, Gumiho 2-1 Creator, innovation has beaten solar and impact, Maru 2-1Patience, Ryung 2-0 Trap, + Bunny vs Rogue and gumiho vs soo. We all can see good T are all stopped by a good Protoss, no need to lie and to pretend they're doing worst that they actually do.
try to just ignore pvsnp, I've found him to be the most biased and stupid balance whiner on these forums since I've started posting more often.
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On December 26 2017 02:07 youngjiddle wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2017 18:07 Tyrhanius wrote:On December 25 2017 10:51 pvsnp wrote:On December 24 2017 17:28 Tyrhanius wrote:
Just a reminder that :
Rogue lost vs Bunny, Dark lost vs SoS, impact and solar vs Innovation, byul lost vs Zest, Soo lost vs Classic and gumiho.
That's clear Zerg isn't OP in any MU. Just a reminder that in that very same qualifier, exactly one Terran won exactly one series that was not a TvT (Gumiho beat soO). Every other time a Terran played a Protoss or Zerg, they lost. So TY, Maru, Inno, etc all failed to win a series over any Protoss or Zerg (mostly Protoss). Oh, and both qualifying matches were PvP, which obviously led to both qualified players being Protoss. Before the qualifier I was thinking Protoss needed some help, afterward I'm thinking some nerfs might be in order, especially with PvT. The IEM qualifier didn't have much in the way of PvZ, though I hear Protoss still struggles quite a bit there. Regardless of the actual balance state. we most likely won't get any changes until around January 5th or so, what with the holiday season. Why lying like that and say there is only a single non TvT won by a T ? Except Bunny 2-1 Dear, Gumiho 2-1 Creator, innovation has beaten solar and impact, Maru 2-1Patience, Ryung 2-0 Trap, + Bunny vs Rogue and gumiho vs soo. We all can see good T are all stopped by a good Protoss, no need to lie and to pretend they're doing worst that they actually do. try to just ignore pvsnp, I've found him to be the most biased and stupid balance whiner on these forums since I've started posting more often.
Merry Christmas to you too!
In my experience, such character assassinations tend to say more about the poster than the target, but hey, if you want to spend your Christmas Day making petty flame posts, I wish you only the best. 
EDIT: Oh wait, you're the same guy who tried to flame me in the Protossed thread, aren't you?
On December 22 2017 02:24 youngjiddle wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2017 14:55 pvsnp wrote:
This line is obviously not referring to ladder losses, but rather community disgust towards Protoss bullshit at the highest levels of competitive SC2. Same goes for the rest of the article.
You're just attacking a strawman of "lol everyone who disagrees is a noob and needs to get good," and come off as a Protoss apologist (deliberately or not I will not speculate).
Now it's certainly possible, even probable, that the hostile comments and such are from people who hate Protoss as a result of losing on ladder........but that's an unproven (and unprovable) assumption. Characterizing them all as such without a shred of proof is the very definition of a strawman.
And I believe the popular term for Protoss "strategy" would be "bullshit."
Why that term is popular at all is the real question here. fuck off tbh
Yeah, I guess character assassination is actually an improvement from raw profanity in your case. Up your game man, I know you can do better!
@Tyrhanius
On December 25 2017 18:07 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2017 10:51 pvsnp wrote:On December 24 2017 17:28 Tyrhanius wrote:
Just a reminder that :
Rogue lost vs Bunny, Dark lost vs SoS, impact and solar vs Innovation, byul lost vs Zest, Soo lost vs Classic and gumiho.
That's clear Zerg isn't OP in any MU. Just a reminder that in that very same qualifier, exactly one Terran won exactly one series that was not a TvT (Gumiho beat soO). Every other time a Terran played a Protoss or Zerg, they lost. So TY, Maru, Inno, etc all failed to win a series over any Protoss or Zerg (mostly Protoss). Oh, and both qualifying matches were PvP, which obviously led to both qualified players being Protoss. Before the qualifier I was thinking Protoss needed some help, afterward I'm thinking some nerfs might be in order, especially with PvT. The IEM qualifier didn't have much in the way of PvZ, though I hear Protoss still struggles quite a bit there. Regardless of the actual balance state. we most likely won't get any changes until around January 5th or so, what with the holiday season. Why lying like that and say there is only a single non TvT won by a T ? Except Bunny 2-1 Dear, Gumiho 2-1 Creator, innovation has beaten solar and impact, Maru 2-1Patience, Ryung 2-0 Trap, + Bunny vs Rogue and gumiho vs soo. We all can see good T are all stopped by a good Protoss, no need to lie and to pretend they're doing worst that they actually do.
I was referring to only the Stage 2 qualifiers, I somehow thought that TY and Maru made it to Stage 2. My bad, sorry about that. And I do agree with you that TvP is the problem here, TvZ is balanced pretty well atm.
Merry Christmas!
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On December 26 2017 04:51 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2017 02:07 youngjiddle wrote:On December 25 2017 18:07 Tyrhanius wrote:On December 25 2017 10:51 pvsnp wrote:On December 24 2017 17:28 Tyrhanius wrote:
Just a reminder that :
Rogue lost vs Bunny, Dark lost vs SoS, impact and solar vs Innovation, byul lost vs Zest, Soo lost vs Classic and gumiho.
That's clear Zerg isn't OP in any MU. Just a reminder that in that very same qualifier, exactly one Terran won exactly one series that was not a TvT (Gumiho beat soO). Every other time a Terran played a Protoss or Zerg, they lost. So TY, Maru, Inno, etc all failed to win a series over any Protoss or Zerg (mostly Protoss). Oh, and both qualifying matches were PvP, which obviously led to both qualified players being Protoss. Before the qualifier I was thinking Protoss needed some help, afterward I'm thinking some nerfs might be in order, especially with PvT. The IEM qualifier didn't have much in the way of PvZ, though I hear Protoss still struggles quite a bit there. Regardless of the actual balance state. we most likely won't get any changes until around January 5th or so, what with the holiday season. Why lying like that and say there is only a single non TvT won by a T ? Except Bunny 2-1 Dear, Gumiho 2-1 Creator, innovation has beaten solar and impact, Maru 2-1Patience, Ryung 2-0 Trap, + Bunny vs Rogue and gumiho vs soo. We all can see good T are all stopped by a good Protoss, no need to lie and to pretend they're doing worst that they actually do. try to just ignore pvsnp, I've found him to be the most biased and stupid balance whiner on these forums since I've started posting more often. Merry Christmas to you too! In my experience, such character assassinations tend to say more about the poster than the target, but hey, if you want to spend your Christmas Day making petty flame posts, I wish you only the best. EDIT: Oh wait, you're the same guy who tried to flame me in the Protossed thread, aren't you? Show nested quote +On December 22 2017 02:24 youngjiddle wrote:On December 20 2017 14:55 pvsnp wrote:
This line is obviously not referring to ladder losses, but rather community disgust towards Protoss bullshit at the highest levels of competitive SC2. Same goes for the rest of the article.
You're just attacking a strawman of "lol everyone who disagrees is a noob and needs to get good," and come off as a Protoss apologist (deliberately or not I will not speculate).
Now it's certainly possible, even probable, that the hostile comments and such are from people who hate Protoss as a result of losing on ladder........but that's an unproven (and unprovable) assumption. Characterizing them all as such without a shred of proof is the very definition of a strawman.
And I believe the popular term for Protoss "strategy" would be "bullshit."
Why that term is popular at all is the real question here. fuck off tbh Yeah, I guess character assassination is actually an improvement from raw profanity in your case. Up your game man, I know you can do better! @Tyrhanius Show nested quote +On December 25 2017 18:07 Tyrhanius wrote:On December 25 2017 10:51 pvsnp wrote:On December 24 2017 17:28 Tyrhanius wrote:
Just a reminder that :
Rogue lost vs Bunny, Dark lost vs SoS, impact and solar vs Innovation, byul lost vs Zest, Soo lost vs Classic and gumiho.
That's clear Zerg isn't OP in any MU. Just a reminder that in that very same qualifier, exactly one Terran won exactly one series that was not a TvT (Gumiho beat soO). Every other time a Terran played a Protoss or Zerg, they lost. So TY, Maru, Inno, etc all failed to win a series over any Protoss or Zerg (mostly Protoss). Oh, and both qualifying matches were PvP, which obviously led to both qualified players being Protoss. Before the qualifier I was thinking Protoss needed some help, afterward I'm thinking some nerfs might be in order, especially with PvT. The IEM qualifier didn't have much in the way of PvZ, though I hear Protoss still struggles quite a bit there. Regardless of the actual balance state. we most likely won't get any changes until around January 5th or so, what with the holiday season. Why lying like that and say there is only a single non TvT won by a T ? Except Bunny 2-1 Dear, Gumiho 2-1 Creator, innovation has beaten solar and impact, Maru 2-1Patience, Ryung 2-0 Trap, + Bunny vs Rogue and gumiho vs soo. We all can see good T are all stopped by a good Protoss, no need to lie and to pretend they're doing worst that they actually do. I was referring to only the Stage 2 qualifiers, I somehow thought that TY and Maru made it to Stage 2. My bad, sorry about that. And I do agree with you that TvP is the problem here, TvZ is balanced pretty well atm. Merry Christmas!
You copied and pasted only the "fuck off" part and left out all the other comments and context.
so my point still stands.
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On December 25 2017 17:53 hiroshOne wrote:
Well they needed to buff hydras, especially as through whole pack of changes in Terran arsenal they threw mutas into oblivion in this matchup. I wonder how Z could ever win vs Terran concidering that Mutas are non existing strategy and if they nerfed hydras. Yeah. I bet it would be fine to wreck all Zergs on ladder with few drops...PvZ would be fine as well right? My god you are all so biased. Every time Zerg gets viable shit, I hear T and P whine. You got bunch of things that irritates Zergs as well, be aware of that.
how you can cry about drops lol, just put few hydras at locations like P does with stalkers and drops won't do shit, or your f2 reflex doesn't allow you to do so?
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On December 26 2017 04:51 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2017 02:07 youngjiddle wrote:On December 25 2017 18:07 Tyrhanius wrote:On December 25 2017 10:51 pvsnp wrote:On December 24 2017 17:28 Tyrhanius wrote:
Just a reminder that :
Rogue lost vs Bunny, Dark lost vs SoS, impact and solar vs Innovation, byul lost vs Zest, Soo lost vs Classic and gumiho.
That's clear Zerg isn't OP in any MU. Just a reminder that in that very same qualifier, exactly one Terran won exactly one series that was not a TvT (Gumiho beat soO). Every other time a Terran played a Protoss or Zerg, they lost. So TY, Maru, Inno, etc all failed to win a series over any Protoss or Zerg (mostly Protoss). Oh, and both qualifying matches were PvP, which obviously led to both qualified players being Protoss. Before the qualifier I was thinking Protoss needed some help, afterward I'm thinking some nerfs might be in order, especially with PvT. The IEM qualifier didn't have much in the way of PvZ, though I hear Protoss still struggles quite a bit there. Regardless of the actual balance state. we most likely won't get any changes until around January 5th or so, what with the holiday season. Why lying like that and say there is only a single non TvT won by a T ? Except Bunny 2-1 Dear, Gumiho 2-1 Creator, innovation has beaten solar and impact, Maru 2-1Patience, Ryung 2-0 Trap, + Bunny vs Rogue and gumiho vs soo. We all can see good T are all stopped by a good Protoss, no need to lie and to pretend they're doing worst that they actually do. try to just ignore pvsnp, I've found him to be the most biased and stupid balance whiner on these forums since I've started posting more often. Merry Christmas to you too! In my experience, such character assassinations tend to say more about the poster than the target, but hey, if you want to spend your Christmas Day making petty flame posts, I wish you only the best. EDIT: Oh wait, you're the same guy who tried to flame me in the Protossed thread, aren't you? Show nested quote +On December 22 2017 02:24 youngjiddle wrote:On December 20 2017 14:55 pvsnp wrote:
This line is obviously not referring to ladder losses, but rather community disgust towards Protoss bullshit at the highest levels of competitive SC2. Same goes for the rest of the article.
You're just attacking a strawman of "lol everyone who disagrees is a noob and needs to get good," and come off as a Protoss apologist (deliberately or not I will not speculate).
Now it's certainly possible, even probable, that the hostile comments and such are from people who hate Protoss as a result of losing on ladder........but that's an unproven (and unprovable) assumption. Characterizing them all as such without a shred of proof is the very definition of a strawman.
And I believe the popular term for Protoss "strategy" would be "bullshit."
Why that term is popular at all is the real question here. fuck off tbh Yeah, I guess character assassination is actually an improvement from raw profanity in your case. Up your game man, I know you can do better! @Tyrhanius Show nested quote +On December 25 2017 18:07 Tyrhanius wrote:On December 25 2017 10:51 pvsnp wrote:On December 24 2017 17:28 Tyrhanius wrote:
Just a reminder that :
Rogue lost vs Bunny, Dark lost vs SoS, impact and solar vs Innovation, byul lost vs Zest, Soo lost vs Classic and gumiho.
That's clear Zerg isn't OP in any MU. Just a reminder that in that very same qualifier, exactly one Terran won exactly one series that was not a TvT (Gumiho beat soO). Every other time a Terran played a Protoss or Zerg, they lost. So TY, Maru, Inno, etc all failed to win a series over any Protoss or Zerg (mostly Protoss). Oh, and both qualifying matches were PvP, which obviously led to both qualified players being Protoss. Before the qualifier I was thinking Protoss needed some help, afterward I'm thinking some nerfs might be in order, especially with PvT. The IEM qualifier didn't have much in the way of PvZ, though I hear Protoss still struggles quite a bit there. Regardless of the actual balance state. we most likely won't get any changes until around January 5th or so, what with the holiday season. Why lying like that and say there is only a single non TvT won by a T ? Except Bunny 2-1 Dear, Gumiho 2-1 Creator, innovation has beaten solar and impact, Maru 2-1Patience, Ryung 2-0 Trap, + Bunny vs Rogue and gumiho vs soo. We all can see good T are all stopped by a good Protoss, no need to lie and to pretend they're doing worst that they actually do. I was referring to only the Stage 2 qualifiers, I somehow thought that TY and Maru made it to Stage 2. My bad, sorry about that. And I do agree with you that TvP is the problem here, TvZ is balanced pretty well atm. Merry Christmas!
you provide really specific factual information about wins and losses that contradict someone else's narrative. so instead of attacking your fact-base logical argument they attack you. pretty boring. i'd prefer they provide a detailed explanation as to why some very skilled Terran players lost. They chose to end the discussion at that point with a personal attack. pretty boring.
at least there was some productive discourse at the very start. after that it devolved into something useless.
maybe their next strat will be "i'm ignoring you now".
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On December 25 2017 17:53 hiroshOne wrote:
Well they needed to buff hydras, especially as through whole pack of changes in Terran arsenal they threw mutas into oblivion in this matchup. I wonder how Z could ever win vs Terran concidering that Mutas are non existing strategy and if they nerfed hydras. Yeah. I bet it would be fine to wreck all Zergs on ladder with few drops...PvZ would be fine as well right? My god you are all so biased. Every time Zerg gets viable shit, I hear T and P whine. You got bunch of things that irritates Zergs as well, be aware of that.
It's not hard to figure out how z was winning games without mutas go back and watch some early lotv games. Zerg would rush to ultras than a move to victory. The difference between now and than is just that Terran has a lot less opportunities when going bio to stop Zerg from reaching ultras. At least back before the hydra patch and queen range buffs Terran had more leeway in the midgame to get some kind of edge, now it's just very difficult vs good zergs to do enough dmg to stop them from reaching ultra currpter when going bio.
Note i say bio I think mech tvz is somewhat balanced (mabey a bit z favored but not grossly) it's just sad that bio is in such a poor state I much preferred how the game used to be with dynamic action packed bio games compared to the slower mech style we have now.
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Funny how u totally ignored ultralisk nerf back then, and bunch of zerg nerfs and terran buffs nowadays. I really don't think that if Blizzard would nerf hydras, Zerg could defend till ultras. That's one. And even if somehow he could manage to survive till lategame, he has no bases, no economy to sustain lategame army, no map control and at the end ghosts still fuck ultras up. Especially with recent buff that disturbing snipe gives tham all energy back.
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A hydras nerf would mean a big mech buff again and a big ZvP nerf.
As mention above, seen the good performance both T and P have done vs Zerg it seems really overkill.
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On December 26 2017 10:37 youngjiddle wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2017 04:51 pvsnp wrote:On December 26 2017 02:07 youngjiddle wrote:On December 25 2017 18:07 Tyrhanius wrote:On December 25 2017 10:51 pvsnp wrote:On December 24 2017 17:28 Tyrhanius wrote:
Just a reminder that :
Rogue lost vs Bunny, Dark lost vs SoS, impact and solar vs Innovation, byul lost vs Zest, Soo lost vs Classic and gumiho.
That's clear Zerg isn't OP in any MU. Just a reminder that in that very same qualifier, exactly one Terran won exactly one series that was not a TvT (Gumiho beat soO). Every other time a Terran played a Protoss or Zerg, they lost. So TY, Maru, Inno, etc all failed to win a series over any Protoss or Zerg (mostly Protoss). Oh, and both qualifying matches were PvP, which obviously led to both qualified players being Protoss. Before the qualifier I was thinking Protoss needed some help, afterward I'm thinking some nerfs might be in order, especially with PvT. The IEM qualifier didn't have much in the way of PvZ, though I hear Protoss still struggles quite a bit there. Regardless of the actual balance state. we most likely won't get any changes until around January 5th or so, what with the holiday season. Why lying like that and say there is only a single non TvT won by a T ? Except Bunny 2-1 Dear, Gumiho 2-1 Creator, innovation has beaten solar and impact, Maru 2-1Patience, Ryung 2-0 Trap, + Bunny vs Rogue and gumiho vs soo. We all can see good T are all stopped by a good Protoss, no need to lie and to pretend they're doing worst that they actually do. try to just ignore pvsnp, I've found him to be the most biased and stupid balance whiner on these forums since I've started posting more often. Merry Christmas to you too! In my experience, such character assassinations tend to say more about the poster than the target, but hey, if you want to spend your Christmas Day making petty flame posts, I wish you only the best. EDIT: Oh wait, you're the same guy who tried to flame me in the Protossed thread, aren't you? On December 22 2017 02:24 youngjiddle wrote:On December 20 2017 14:55 pvsnp wrote:
This line is obviously not referring to ladder losses, but rather community disgust towards Protoss bullshit at the highest levels of competitive SC2. Same goes for the rest of the article.
You're just attacking a strawman of "lol everyone who disagrees is a noob and needs to get good," and come off as a Protoss apologist (deliberately or not I will not speculate).
Now it's certainly possible, even probable, that the hostile comments and such are from people who hate Protoss as a result of losing on ladder........but that's an unproven (and unprovable) assumption. Characterizing them all as such without a shred of proof is the very definition of a strawman.
And I believe the popular term for Protoss "strategy" would be "bullshit."
Why that term is popular at all is the real question here. fuck off tbh Yeah, I guess character assassination is actually an improvement from raw profanity in your case. Up your game man, I know you can do better! @Tyrhanius On December 25 2017 18:07 Tyrhanius wrote:On December 25 2017 10:51 pvsnp wrote:On December 24 2017 17:28 Tyrhanius wrote:
Just a reminder that :
Rogue lost vs Bunny, Dark lost vs SoS, impact and solar vs Innovation, byul lost vs Zest, Soo lost vs Classic and gumiho.
That's clear Zerg isn't OP in any MU. Just a reminder that in that very same qualifier, exactly one Terran won exactly one series that was not a TvT (Gumiho beat soO). Every other time a Terran played a Protoss or Zerg, they lost. So TY, Maru, Inno, etc all failed to win a series over any Protoss or Zerg (mostly Protoss). Oh, and both qualifying matches were PvP, which obviously led to both qualified players being Protoss. Before the qualifier I was thinking Protoss needed some help, afterward I'm thinking some nerfs might be in order, especially with PvT. The IEM qualifier didn't have much in the way of PvZ, though I hear Protoss still struggles quite a bit there. Regardless of the actual balance state. we most likely won't get any changes until around January 5th or so, what with the holiday season. Why lying like that and say there is only a single non TvT won by a T ? Except Bunny 2-1 Dear, Gumiho 2-1 Creator, innovation has beaten solar and impact, Maru 2-1Patience, Ryung 2-0 Trap, + Bunny vs Rogue and gumiho vs soo. We all can see good T are all stopped by a good Protoss, no need to lie and to pretend they're doing worst that they actually do. I was referring to only the Stage 2 qualifiers, I somehow thought that TY and Maru made it to Stage 2. My bad, sorry about that. And I do agree with you that TvP is the problem here, TvZ is balanced pretty well atm. Merry Christmas! You copied and pasted only the "fuck off" part and left out all the other comments and context. so my point still stands.
Yes of course, I forgot that “fuck off” has a huge number of completely different meanings depending on the context. My bad.
Please, enlighten me as to what exactly you actually meant when you said “fuck off,” and how it isn’t actually raw profanity in the slightest.
Next you’ll be telling me that:
On December 26 2017 02:07 youngjiddle wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2017 18:07 Tyrhanius wrote:On December 25 2017 10:51 pvsnp wrote:On December 24 2017 17:28 Tyrhanius wrote:
Just a reminder that :
Rogue lost vs Bunny, Dark lost vs SoS, impact and solar vs Innovation, byul lost vs Zest, Soo lost vs Classic and gumiho.
That's clear Zerg isn't OP in any MU. Just a reminder that in that very same qualifier, exactly one Terran won exactly one series that was not a TvT (Gumiho beat soO). Every other time a Terran played a Protoss or Zerg, they lost. So TY, Maru, Inno, etc all failed to win a series over any Protoss or Zerg (mostly Protoss). Oh, and both qualifying matches were PvP, which obviously led to both qualified players being Protoss. Before the qualifier I was thinking Protoss needed some help, afterward I'm thinking some nerfs might be in order, especially with PvT. The IEM qualifier didn't have much in the way of PvZ, though I hear Protoss still struggles quite a bit there. Regardless of the actual balance state. we most likely won't get any changes until around January 5th or so, what with the holiday season. Why lying like that and say there is only a single non TvT won by a T ? Except Bunny 2-1 Dear, Gumiho 2-1 Creator, innovation has beaten solar and impact, Maru 2-1Patience, Ryung 2-0 Trap, + Bunny vs Rogue and gumiho vs soo. We all can see good T are all stopped by a good Protoss, no need to lie and to pretend they're doing worst that they actually do. try to just ignore pvsnp, I've found him to be the most biased and stupid balance whiner on these forums since I've started posting more often.
is not actually an insult, but rather the highest of compliments.
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On December 27 2017 03:17 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2017 10:37 youngjiddle wrote:On December 26 2017 04:51 pvsnp wrote:On December 26 2017 02:07 youngjiddle wrote:On December 25 2017 18:07 Tyrhanius wrote:On December 25 2017 10:51 pvsnp wrote:On December 24 2017 17:28 Tyrhanius wrote:
Just a reminder that :
Rogue lost vs Bunny, Dark lost vs SoS, impact and solar vs Innovation, byul lost vs Zest, Soo lost vs Classic and gumiho.
That's clear Zerg isn't OP in any MU. Just a reminder that in that very same qualifier, exactly one Terran won exactly one series that was not a TvT (Gumiho beat soO). Every other time a Terran played a Protoss or Zerg, they lost. So TY, Maru, Inno, etc all failed to win a series over any Protoss or Zerg (mostly Protoss). Oh, and both qualifying matches were PvP, which obviously led to both qualified players being Protoss. Before the qualifier I was thinking Protoss needed some help, afterward I'm thinking some nerfs might be in order, especially with PvT. The IEM qualifier didn't have much in the way of PvZ, though I hear Protoss still struggles quite a bit there. Regardless of the actual balance state. we most likely won't get any changes until around January 5th or so, what with the holiday season. Why lying like that and say there is only a single non TvT won by a T ? Except Bunny 2-1 Dear, Gumiho 2-1 Creator, innovation has beaten solar and impact, Maru 2-1Patience, Ryung 2-0 Trap, + Bunny vs Rogue and gumiho vs soo. We all can see good T are all stopped by a good Protoss, no need to lie and to pretend they're doing worst that they actually do. try to just ignore pvsnp, I've found him to be the most biased and stupid balance whiner on these forums since I've started posting more often. Merry Christmas to you too! In my experience, such character assassinations tend to say more about the poster than the target, but hey, if you want to spend your Christmas Day making petty flame posts, I wish you only the best. EDIT: Oh wait, you're the same guy who tried to flame me in the Protossed thread, aren't you? On December 22 2017 02:24 youngjiddle wrote:On December 20 2017 14:55 pvsnp wrote:
This line is obviously not referring to ladder losses, but rather community disgust towards Protoss bullshit at the highest levels of competitive SC2. Same goes for the rest of the article.
You're just attacking a strawman of "lol everyone who disagrees is a noob and needs to get good," and come off as a Protoss apologist (deliberately or not I will not speculate).
Now it's certainly possible, even probable, that the hostile comments and such are from people who hate Protoss as a result of losing on ladder........but that's an unproven (and unprovable) assumption. Characterizing them all as such without a shred of proof is the very definition of a strawman.
And I believe the popular term for Protoss "strategy" would be "bullshit."
Why that term is popular at all is the real question here. fuck off tbh Yeah, I guess character assassination is actually an improvement from raw profanity in your case. Up your game man, I know you can do better! @Tyrhanius On December 25 2017 18:07 Tyrhanius wrote:On December 25 2017 10:51 pvsnp wrote:On December 24 2017 17:28 Tyrhanius wrote:
Just a reminder that :
Rogue lost vs Bunny, Dark lost vs SoS, impact and solar vs Innovation, byul lost vs Zest, Soo lost vs Classic and gumiho.
That's clear Zerg isn't OP in any MU. Just a reminder that in that very same qualifier, exactly one Terran won exactly one series that was not a TvT (Gumiho beat soO). Every other time a Terran played a Protoss or Zerg, they lost. So TY, Maru, Inno, etc all failed to win a series over any Protoss or Zerg (mostly Protoss). Oh, and both qualifying matches were PvP, which obviously led to both qualified players being Protoss. Before the qualifier I was thinking Protoss needed some help, afterward I'm thinking some nerfs might be in order, especially with PvT. The IEM qualifier didn't have much in the way of PvZ, though I hear Protoss still struggles quite a bit there. Regardless of the actual balance state. we most likely won't get any changes until around January 5th or so, what with the holiday season. Why lying like that and say there is only a single non TvT won by a T ? Except Bunny 2-1 Dear, Gumiho 2-1 Creator, innovation has beaten solar and impact, Maru 2-1Patience, Ryung 2-0 Trap, + Bunny vs Rogue and gumiho vs soo. We all can see good T are all stopped by a good Protoss, no need to lie and to pretend they're doing worst that they actually do. I was referring to only the Stage 2 qualifiers, I somehow thought that TY and Maru made it to Stage 2. My bad, sorry about that. And I do agree with you that TvP is the problem here, TvZ is balanced pretty well atm. Merry Christmas! You copied and pasted only the "fuck off" part and left out all the other comments and context. so my point still stands. Yes of course, I forgot that “fuck off” has a huge number of completely different meanings depending on the context. My bad. Please, enlighten me as to what exactly you actually meant when you said “fuck off,” and how it isn’t actually raw profanity in the slightest. Next you’ll be telling me that: Show nested quote +On December 26 2017 02:07 youngjiddle wrote:On December 25 2017 18:07 Tyrhanius wrote:On December 25 2017 10:51 pvsnp wrote:On December 24 2017 17:28 Tyrhanius wrote:
Just a reminder that :
Rogue lost vs Bunny, Dark lost vs SoS, impact and solar vs Innovation, byul lost vs Zest, Soo lost vs Classic and gumiho.
That's clear Zerg isn't OP in any MU. Just a reminder that in that very same qualifier, exactly one Terran won exactly one series that was not a TvT (Gumiho beat soO). Every other time a Terran played a Protoss or Zerg, they lost. So TY, Maru, Inno, etc all failed to win a series over any Protoss or Zerg (mostly Protoss). Oh, and both qualifying matches were PvP, which obviously led to both qualified players being Protoss. Before the qualifier I was thinking Protoss needed some help, afterward I'm thinking some nerfs might be in order, especially with PvT. The IEM qualifier didn't have much in the way of PvZ, though I hear Protoss still struggles quite a bit there. Regardless of the actual balance state. we most likely won't get any changes until around January 5th or so, what with the holiday season. Why lying like that and say there is only a single non TvT won by a T ? Except Bunny 2-1 Dear, Gumiho 2-1 Creator, innovation has beaten solar and impact, Maru 2-1Patience, Ryung 2-0 Trap, + Bunny vs Rogue and gumiho vs soo. We all can see good T are all stopped by a good Protoss, no need to lie and to pretend they're doing worst that they actually do. try to just ignore pvsnp, I've found him to be the most biased and stupid balance whiner on these forums since I've started posting more often. is not actually an insult, but rather the highest of compliments.
No. In the post where I say "fuck off", there was a larger conversations that lead up to the "fuck off" you still seem to ignore to push your point of me being an asshole. Your whole arguement was that protoss wins were "bullshit" and I was not buying it.
Again, you choose to ignore it and push your own reasoning based on incorrect facts, just like you did saying Terrans did not win a single non TvT above.
You just say things as factual but aren't even true, like I find it so funny when you say "At the pro level, bio is not really viable", yet I saw multiple terrans going bio at the gsl qualifier, like innovation, and winning. I don't understand where you get your facts.
More hilarious were your comments on the stalker, where you claimed the change to be massively imbalanced and claimed terrans would not win with the change. lo and behold winrates turned back to 52% and the race distribution has been balanced at the pro level.
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