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On December 01 2017 02:47 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
I didn't think there were so many people still around dumb enough to get baited by DieuCure...
I guess I didn't know the phenomenon. Now I know.
I am constantly fascinated by people like this who feel the need to boast against them having to work. I mean sure, I see how that is the life situation of a majority of people - but that sucks for them and what the hell is there to be so righteous about it? I am 35, I have a great life (within the boundaries set by my genetics) and have watched countless GSLs and PLs live, because I enjoy that very much and because I am able to get my life together in way that makes it possible.
The fact that you are part of the majority doesn't mean that you aren't a loser.
For the work hour discussion. I don't disrespect anyone except those who are disrespectful. Just to say that those guys started saying I was to blame because I work basically. So yeah I don't have to respect them for any reason.
Now I know I've been trolled, good for them.
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My opinion on the European Qualifier:
I think the split is because of Olympia to ensure to have as many nations in there as possible. But the region split within Europe is bollocks. The european pro scene is already quite diverse in nationalities. The problem is, the southern region (as it is determined by ESL) is pretty much non-existent and the east is also underwhelming. And therfor very good players have to be left out.
If you take a look at the standings of the 2017 WCS circuit, you have to scroll down to rank 56 to find Ryu from Italy as the only representative of the southern region. There is no other player in there. The next guy could probably be Reynor, if he is allowed to play, but that's it.
On the other hand, we will have players like Showtime(Nat. GER/ WCS Rank 11), Nerchio(PL/5), Elazer(PL/2), uThermal(NL/14), Harstem(NL/22)...compete for the single central european slot.
In the North Serral (FIN/3), Snute (NOR/4), Namshar (SWE/18) and Zanster (SWE/29) will compete for one spot.
The West are our french guys DnS (35) and PtitDrogo (16) (Stephano is already registered for Africa).
And in the East I could only find Bly (UKR/27) and PiliPili (KAZ/38), but no other competition.
So...the hard qualifiers in Europe will only be the North and the Central region. The rest is going to be rather boring until the semi finals. For some guys even a cupcake, while others have to fight hard for their spot. And that's why I think this is bollocks. For europe it would have been enough with one or two open qualifiers for a maximum of 4 spots overall. Give the Koreans the 5th spot and IEM PyeongChang would have much more quality of play - which is important too.
The one positive thing I can see in this format is, that it probably encourages a couple of players to try their luck. Who knows, we maybe find a gem or two. But I wouldn't expect it.
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On November 30 2017 09:33 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2017 09:22 zealotstim wrote:
lol I guess we will know who the two finalists are early. Neeb and Special?
Haha, fair enough. Still, it's disappointing to see so few participants from the strongest region.
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On December 01 2017 05:24 zealotstim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2017 09:33 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On November 30 2017 09:22 zealotstim wrote:
lol I guess we will know who the two finalists are early. Neeb and Special? Haha, fair enough. Still, it's disappointing to see so few participants from the strongest region.
That's true, two isn't enough. Scarlett should be there too
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United States33493 Posts
Ionno why people are so mad, when this was the standard international tournament/IEM format for all of StarCraft II history until like 2016.
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On December 01 2017 06:00 Waxangel wrote:
Ionno why people are so mad, when this was the standard international tournament/IEM format for all of StarCraft II history until like 2016.
Residency/citizenship locked qualifiers and tournament spots for Africa & parts of Asia that aren't South Korea or China doesn't sound like the IEMs I remember I have to say.
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On December 01 2017 06:20 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 06:00 Waxangel wrote:
Ionno why people are so mad, when this was the standard international tournament/IEM format for all of StarCraft II history until like 2016. Residency/citizenship locked qualifiers and tournament spots for Africa & parts of Asia that aren't South Korea or China doesn't sound like the IEMs I remember I have to say.
Gotta have those spots dedicated to Stephano, Demilove, and some player from Southern Europe no one's ever heard of.
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On December 01 2017 04:18 OHGRinho wrote:My opinion on the European Qualifier: I think the split is because of Olympia to ensure to have as many nations in there as possible. But the region split within Europe is bollocks. The european pro scene is already quite diverse in nationalities. The problem is, the southern region (as it is determined by ESL) is pretty much non-existent and the east is also underwhelming. And therfor very good players have to be left out. If you take a look at the standings of the 2017 WCS circuit, you have to scroll down to rank 56 to find Ryu from Italy as the only representative of the southern region. There is no other player in there. The next guy could probably be Reynor, if he is allowed to play, but that's it. On the other hand, we will have players like Showtime(Nat. GER/ WCS Rank 11), Nerchio(PL/5), Elazer(PL/2), uThermal(NL/14), Harstem(NL/22)...compete for the single central european slot. In the North Serral (FIN/3), Snute (NOR/4), Namshar (SWE/18) and Zanster (SWE/29) will compete for one spot. The West are our french guys DnS (35) and PtitDrogo (16) (Stephano is already registered for Africa). And in the East I could only find Bly (UKR/27) and PiliPili (KAZ/38), but no other competition. So...the hard qualifiers in Europe will only be the North and the Central region. The rest is going to be rather boring until the semi finals. For some guys even a cupcake, while others have to fight hard for their spot. And that's why I think this is bollocks. For europe it would have been enough with one or two open qualifiers for a maximum of 4 spots overall. Give the Koreans the 5th spot and IEM PyeongChang would have much more quality of play - which is important too. The one positive thing I can see in this format is, that it probably encourages a couple of players to try their luck. Who knows, we maybe find a gem or two. But I wouldn't expect it.
The point isn't to have the best players there, they want players from lots of different regions.
If they wanted just the best players it would be all korean.
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On December 01 2017 07:04 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 04:18 OHGRinho wrote:My opinion on the European Qualifier: I think the split is because of Olympia to ensure to have as many nations in there as possible. But the region split within Europe is bollocks. The european pro scene is already quite diverse in nationalities. The problem is, the southern region (as it is determined by ESL) is pretty much non-existent and the east is also underwhelming. And therfor very good players have to be left out. If you take a look at the standings of the 2017 WCS circuit, you have to scroll down to rank 56 to find Ryu from Italy as the only representative of the southern region. There is no other player in there. The next guy could probably be Reynor, if he is allowed to play, but that's it. On the other hand, we will have players like Showtime(Nat. GER/ WCS Rank 11), Nerchio(PL/5), Elazer(PL/2), uThermal(NL/14), Harstem(NL/22)...compete for the single central european slot. In the North Serral (FIN/3), Snute (NOR/4), Namshar (SWE/18) and Zanster (SWE/29) will compete for one spot. The West are our french guys DnS (35) and PtitDrogo (16) (Stephano is already registered for Africa). And in the East I could only find Bly (UKR/27) and PiliPili (KAZ/38), but no other competition. So...the hard qualifiers in Europe will only be the North and the Central region. The rest is going to be rather boring until the semi finals. For some guys even a cupcake, while others have to fight hard for their spot. And that's why I think this is bollocks. For europe it would have been enough with one or two open qualifiers for a maximum of 4 spots overall. Give the Koreans the 5th spot and IEM PyeongChang would have much more quality of play - which is important too. The one positive thing I can see in this format is, that it probably encourages a couple of players to try their luck. Who knows, we maybe find a gem or two. But I wouldn't expect it. The point isn't to have the best players there, they want players from lots of different regions. If they wanted just the best players it would be all korean.
Ehhh... there's still a difference between aiming for diversity and rewarding local scenes, and blindly dividing up regions where scenes don't even exist. Even if you had a single qualifier with 5 spots for all of Europe you'd probably still end up with 4 different countries, and better players.
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On December 01 2017 07:04 Charoisaur wrote:
The point isn't to have the best players there, they want players from lots of different regions.
If they wanted just the best players it would be all korean.
Since you missed my point entirely, i'll repeat myself: "The region split within Europe is bollocks. The European pro scene is already quite diverse in nationalities."
I underlay my point with this:
4/4 WCS EU qualifiers seeded at least three different nationalities in the semifinals.
2/4 seeded four different nationalities in the semifinals.
In other words, the best European players from 2017 are from different nations already.
And on a sidenote: Nations in Europe are far more important than regions...but that's a whole different story.
So there isn't really anything that would speak against a qualifier for Europe as a whole, but a lot that speaks against a weird split, because of the huge skill difference through the five regions.
EDIT: @ZigguratOfUr - exactly this!
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Not sure how i feel about them splitting up Europe like that. Seems like it should just be the best players from all of Europe?
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5 players from EU, 2 from KR... Lol? 
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Where can I complain about this system? Only one spot for Central Europe? But then, my country will never be able to participate in the Olympics as the Polish guys always beat us in SC2. What about some fair system? Only people of mixed origin will be accepted, half Polish, half Czech (e.g. Opisska)!
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On November 30 2017 03:13 billynasty wrote:
I'm wondering, who the player from Africa is gonna be. Anyone have any ideas?
stephano
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On December 01 2017 18:15 Diabolique wrote:
Where can I complain about this system? Only one spot for Central Europe? But then, my country will never be able to participate in the Olympics as the Polish guys always beat us in SC2. What about some fair system? Only people of mixed origin will be accepted, half Polish, half Czech (e.g. Opisska)!
I am, after all, top 4 in my country
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On December 01 2017 15:06 Clazziquai10 wrote:5 players from EU, 2 from KR... Lol?
5 spots for 50 nations is indeed not fair.
Why does a single small nation like SK get 2???
I guess just because they are the host nation? Seems stupid to me... Lol.
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On December 01 2017 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 07:04 Charoisaur wrote:On December 01 2017 04:18 OHGRinho wrote:My opinion on the European Qualifier: I think the split is because of Olympia to ensure to have as many nations in there as possible. But the region split within Europe is bollocks. The european pro scene is already quite diverse in nationalities. The problem is, the southern region (as it is determined by ESL) is pretty much non-existent and the east is also underwhelming. And therfor very good players have to be left out. If you take a look at the standings of the 2017 WCS circuit, you have to scroll down to rank 56 to find Ryu from Italy as the only representative of the southern region. There is no other player in there. The next guy could probably be Reynor, if he is allowed to play, but that's it. On the other hand, we will have players like Showtime(Nat. GER/ WCS Rank 11), Nerchio(PL/5), Elazer(PL/2), uThermal(NL/14), Harstem(NL/22)...compete for the single central european slot. In the North Serral (FIN/3), Snute (NOR/4), Namshar (SWE/18) and Zanster (SWE/29) will compete for one spot. The West are our french guys DnS (35) and PtitDrogo (16) (Stephano is already registered for Africa). And in the East I could only find Bly (UKR/27) and PiliPili (KAZ/38), but no other competition. So...the hard qualifiers in Europe will only be the North and the Central region. The rest is going to be rather boring until the semi finals. For some guys even a cupcake, while others have to fight hard for their spot. And that's why I think this is bollocks. For europe it would have been enough with one or two open qualifiers for a maximum of 4 spots overall. Give the Koreans the 5th spot and IEM PyeongChang would have much more quality of play - which is important too. The one positive thing I can see in this format is, that it probably encourages a couple of players to try their luck. Who knows, we maybe find a gem or two. But I wouldn't expect it. The point isn't to have the best players there, they want players from lots of different regions. If they wanted just the best players it would be all korean. Ehhh... there's still a difference between aiming for diversity and rewarding local scenes, and blindly dividing up regions where scenes don't even exist. Even if you had a single qualifier with 5 spots for all of Europe you'd probably still end up with 4 different countries, and better players.
I don't understand your point. Yes the regions with barely existing scenes get charity spots - but so does Europe as a whole. If they wanted better players it would be all korean but it's not the point of this tournament to get the best players. They want to give players from weaker regions a chance too.
Complaining about the fact that the weaker regions in Europe get charity spots at the expense of EU North and EU Central while finding it ok that EU North and EU Central get charity spots at the expense of Korea seems extremely hypocritical to me.
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Better would have been 32 players with much more "charity spots" as you call them and ONLY 2 spots for korea. Then maybe something like 4 to 8 spots through an internationnal qualifier (which would be in the end taken by mostly koreans)
The point of this distribution of spots is the "olympics". If you want to interest people who don't know anything about SC2, you need to have someone from their country or at least region.
In any olympics, there is a maximum of participant per country. I think that's really good.
Edit : Oops, I'm destroying kr SC2 again. sorry
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On December 01 2017 21:51 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 15:06 Clazziquai10 wrote:5 players from EU, 2 from KR... Lol? 5 spots for 50 nations is indeed not fair. Why does a single small nation like SK get 2??? I guess just because they are the host nation? Seems stupid to me... Lol.
Leave alone players’ qualities, SK should get more becoz they have the largest player base. EU has like 30 nations but how many of them actually have progamers? and how many % of population care about SC2 ? Answer these.
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On December 01 2017 22:35 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 01 2017 07:04 Charoisaur wrote:On December 01 2017 04:18 OHGRinho wrote:My opinion on the European Qualifier: I think the split is because of Olympia to ensure to have as many nations in there as possible. But the region split within Europe is bollocks. The european pro scene is already quite diverse in nationalities. The problem is, the southern region (as it is determined by ESL) is pretty much non-existent and the east is also underwhelming. And therfor very good players have to be left out. If you take a look at the standings of the 2017 WCS circuit, you have to scroll down to rank 56 to find Ryu from Italy as the only representative of the southern region. There is no other player in there. The next guy could probably be Reynor, if he is allowed to play, but that's it. On the other hand, we will have players like Showtime(Nat. GER/ WCS Rank 11), Nerchio(PL/5), Elazer(PL/2), uThermal(NL/14), Harstem(NL/22)...compete for the single central european slot. In the North Serral (FIN/3), Snute (NOR/4), Namshar (SWE/18) and Zanster (SWE/29) will compete for one spot. The West are our french guys DnS (35) and PtitDrogo (16) (Stephano is already registered for Africa). And in the East I could only find Bly (UKR/27) and PiliPili (KAZ/38), but no other competition. So...the hard qualifiers in Europe will only be the North and the Central region. The rest is going to be rather boring until the semi finals. For some guys even a cupcake, while others have to fight hard for their spot. And that's why I think this is bollocks. For europe it would have been enough with one or two open qualifiers for a maximum of 4 spots overall. Give the Koreans the 5th spot and IEM PyeongChang would have much more quality of play - which is important too. The one positive thing I can see in this format is, that it probably encourages a couple of players to try their luck. Who knows, we maybe find a gem or two. But I wouldn't expect it. The point isn't to have the best players there, they want players from lots of different regions. If they wanted just the best players it would be all korean. Ehhh... there's still a difference between aiming for diversity and rewarding local scenes, and blindly dividing up regions where scenes don't even exist. Even if you had a single qualifier with 5 spots for all of Europe you'd probably still end up with 4 different countries, and better players. I don't understand your point. Yes the regions with barely existing scenes get charity spots - but so does Europe as a whole. If they wanted better players it would be all korean but it's not the point of this tournament to get the best players. They want to give players from weaker regions a chance too. Complaining about the fact that the weaker regions in Europe get charity spots at the expense of EU North and EU Central while finding it ok that EU North and EU Central get charity spots at the expense of Korea seems extremely hypocritical to me.
You're being deliberately obtuse. Let's assume that IEM wants to promote regional diversity and sportive universality, goals very much in line with Olympic values (yes we know you fundamentally disagree with these goals). Dividing tournament spots among regions where there are active scenes, among Korea, Europe, China, the Americas achieves this moreso than a purely meritocratic qualifier system, and to its credit does help foster local scenes. Splitting spots among the different regions of Europe doesn't do any additional fostering, since the wider European scene is quite integrated, and there isn't any noticeable for example Southern European Starcraft scene distinct from the European scene.
On December 02 2017 14:01 ParksonVN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 21:51 Musicus wrote:On December 01 2017 15:06 Clazziquai10 wrote:5 players from EU, 2 from KR... Lol? 5 spots for 50 nations is indeed not fair. Why does a single small nation like SK get 2??? I guess just because they are the host nation? Seems stupid to me... Lol. Leave alone players’ qualities, SK should get more becoz they have the largest player base. EU has like 30 nations but how many of them actually have progamers? and how many % of population care about SC2 ? Answer these.
Korea does not have the largest player base. EU ladder has roughly three times more people than Korean ladder.
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EPT
