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On November 16 2017 01:45 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2017 01:40 lestye wrote:On November 15 2017 22:06 Ysellian wrote:
@Nony: No that was just the final nail in the coffin. Battlefront 2 also has damage and ability buffs in crates.
Anyway Blizzard should allow you to disable skins in SC2, don't see much reason why they wouldn't. I think the announcer stuff is probably where Blizz earns the most anyway. Because part of the F2P model is the ability to peacock all your cool shit. If a good chunk of the community cant see it, whales are not inclined to spend. There's a reason why no other major game offers such an option. If the game needed to compromise on competition to stay alive then it'd hardly be the starcraft that everyone around here loves any more.
Yes the entire competitiveness of StarCraft is dependent on if the banelings have spikes or not. Skins aren't going away, they're a part of every modern game. If a skin is too much of an issue then complain and it will get changed, we've seen this already.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
On November 16 2017 01:48 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2017 01:45 Cyro wrote:On November 16 2017 01:40 lestye wrote:On November 15 2017 22:06 Ysellian wrote:
@Nony: No that was just the final nail in the coffin. Battlefront 2 also has damage and ability buffs in crates.
Anyway Blizzard should allow you to disable skins in SC2, don't see much reason why they wouldn't. I think the announcer stuff is probably where Blizz earns the most anyway. Because part of the F2P model is the ability to peacock all your cool shit. If a good chunk of the community cant see it, whales are not inclined to spend. There's a reason why no other major game offers such an option. If the game needed to compromise on competition to stay alive then it'd hardly be the starcraft that everyone around here loves any more. It's not compromising based on the competition, I'm pointing at the competition to show a common theme, I guarantee all of them know disabling skins completely betrays the point of the business model. I'm confident they're not going to change it.
Straying from competitive values is compromising competition
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On November 16 2017 00:14 NonY wrote:
If it's a matter of money, then why isn't there an option to pay to force default skins?
because blizzard would get crucified if it did something like that.. right now they're making money off of selling "more options" to people and they can just pretend/be negligent and not add the feature to disable skins... if they were to add it and charge for it people would lose their shit because it would be a tacit admission that balance is up for sale (instead of just being implied, like it is atm with skins).
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Right now there are two big balance problems Blizz need to fix asap.
1) winfestors:
befor 4.0, PvZ Skytoss was super strong. Mass Oracle was a common build and the transition into the golden armada was relatively easy. once Protoss reached the late game Zerg was forced to play this dumb mass spore/Queen/infestor/corruptor/viper style wich wasn't a lot of fun to play and watch but Skytoss was beatable.
with the patch they changed the infestor, fungal no longer hits air and to compensate that they changed the inf. terran and gave him this ridiculous AAattack but then they reverted fungal to hit air again, now it's better vs air than befor because of the greater radius. I don't know why they didn't revert the inf. terran too.
at the same time they nerfed Skytoss:
- Interceptor cost 50% more
- many minor nerfs to the oracle to prevent massing them
- mothership no longer have mass recall(that's actually huge, befor 4.0 protoss simply jumped out of a bad fight and lost no units, with the new recall they will always lose some units)
my suggestion is to revert the infestor to 3.19 or whatever the Blizzcon version was. I think the Skytoss nerfs are enough to balance ZvP lategame + the new infestor is also problematic in TvZ so it's easier to balance this matchup too.
2) Chrono Boost:
It's nice for Protoss to have the cool energy based Chrono Boost back but the new one is way, way too good because of the insane stackability of this spell.
Right now, if the terran get's unlucky and didn't scoute the proxy, it's 50/50 instant GG because if he builds blinde turrets and it's robo he's dead, if he didn't build turrets and it's stargate he's also dead because he will never have enough marines to defend, even if T scoute the proxy it's super hard to def and he will be almost certainly behind because he has to commit so much into defens.
I know it's hard to predict how changes will turn out in the live game but if I had that idea, the first thing i would check is how fast can protoss get certain units out, especialy in the first 3-4min because not a lot of player interaction happens there.
I don't know exactly what a good change would be, maybe change Chrono Boost to HotS Chrono Boost or make the Chrono Boost 50% longer but also 50% more energy so you can only boost the proxy oracle once. Perhaps both?
They need to fix this two problems befor we can talk reasonable about other "minor" balance issues.
I hope they can do this befor the WESG qualifier because right now, SC2 is more e-WWE than e-sport.
thank you for reading, hope my english was not too bad
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Oh and sorry that I disrupted your conversation about skins.^^
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Is it true that fungal can no longer hit air? I thought it still does. The change notes did not mention about not about to hit air units.
I those skins are getting more and more silly. I understand they need different skins to monetize the game. But they are running out of ideas. What other skins do you want which you don't already have? The problem is that they should at least make an option for users to disable customized skins. Some of the problems is that it is hard to see the units. Stalkers and immortals have customized skins which are similar to one another.
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On November 16 2017 02:32 MrWayne wrote:
but then they changed fungal again, now it's better vs air than befor because of the greater radius. I don't know why they didn't revert the inf. terran too.
currently fungal hit air but back when they first come up with the new changes, they removed air fungle and justified the inf. terran buff with it.
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Widow mine +shield aoe is fine! they said. Liberator 2 shooting stalkers at 4 minutes is fine! they said.
Chrono is NOT ok, infestors are NOT ok, shield battery is NOT ok they said.
classic Terrans want to keep their +55% winrates. I'm liking this patch.
Also about skins, if Blizzard wants to keep them they can just edit them to keep them from looking to similar to one another.
The guy in this thread who said skins don't belong in a competitive game, lol. Every other esport allows them, in tournaments even. Many of those games require crazy fast reactions also. In fact I bet skins help increase the popularity of games, but I don't have the stats to back that.
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Downloaded the patch, played a game and I can already say it's still not fun. Back to SC: Remastered and CS: GO it is.
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8751 Posts
On November 16 2017 02:30 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2017 00:14 NonY wrote:
If it's a matter of money, then why isn't there an option to pay to force default skins? because blizzard would get crucified if it did something like that.. right now they're making money off of selling "more options" to people and they can just pretend/be negligent and not add the feature to disable skins... if they were to add it and charge for it people would lose their shit because it would be a tacit admission that balance is up for sale (instead of just being implied, like it is atm with skins).
Then that's pretty clear that the people wanting skins in competitive play are just being abusive. At least we can all agree on that. If there's no reason to complain because it'll never change, then I'll stop.
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On November 16 2017 02:32 MrWayne wrote:
Right now, if the terran get's unlucky and didn't scoute the proxy, it's 50/50 instant GG because if he builds blinde turrets and it's robo he's dead, if he didn't build turrets and it's stargate he's also dead because he will never have enough marines to defend, even if T scoute the proxy it's super hard to def and he will be almost certainly behind because he has to commit so much into defens.
I'm still unsure in which ways new chrono buff/nerfs things.
I feel like it might slow down early game..
Must says so far as a toss i don't like this patch so much..
I've got into almost only zerg and i miss the MC really much against them, i surely must learn some better sim city with battery & photon, but so far it forces photon so sometimes forge earlier.
But for now i feel doomed to turtle more against them, and the things i hate about this match-up feels even more painful even more, since with this long-ass recall, i can't risk some quick agression.
Y'all wanted MSC dead but while i like shield battery concept, i feel like removal of MSC did'nt truely enhance any Protoss match-ups
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On November 16 2017 03:21 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2017 02:30 Endymion wrote:On November 16 2017 00:14 NonY wrote:
If it's a matter of money, then why isn't there an option to pay to force default skins? because blizzard would get crucified if it did something like that.. right now they're making money off of selling "more options" to people and they can just pretend/be negligent and not add the feature to disable skins... if they were to add it and charge for it people would lose their shit because it would be a tacit admission that balance is up for sale (instead of just being implied, like it is atm with skins). Then that's pretty clear that the people wanting skins in competitive play are just being abusive. At least we can all agree on that. If there's no reason to complain because it'll never change, then I'll stop.
the word abusive might be over the top Nony, people buy skin for the same reason they buy a good looking car, it's stupid but it's really just to show off
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There's probably no point discussing skins anymore. SC2 is free. Blizzard want to make money. You can guess what they're going to sell (skins is one of them).
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Wow I just played the new patch- what an absolute heap of trash. The "balance" has just made the game as un-fun as possible for protoss, yet again.
If the "problem" with the Mothership Core was that it forced a limited set of options on players, the new build is far far worse in that it forces you to either sit next to a shield battery or be completely useless. It encourages a turtley gameplay style and removes any of the fun from playing that race.
Blizzard may have found a way to go Free to Play and lose players at the same time. What a massively wasted opportunity.
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On November 16 2017 02:55 youngjiddle wrote:
Widow mine +shield aoe is fine! they said. Liberator 2 shooting stalkers at 4 minutes is fine! they said.
Chrono is NOT ok, infestors are NOT ok, shield battery is NOT ok they said.
classic Terrans want to keep their +55% winrates. I'm liking this patch.
I'm liking this patch too!
I like the energy based Chrono Boost, the Shield Battery, the new Raven, the idea of better gateway units. I like even the new Disruptor everyone shits on.
Did you actually read my post? I said nothing about the Shield battery or Widow mine.
I mentioned only the Chrono Boost and the Infestor and it's not like i'm the only one who mentioned these two problems.
Did you watch HSC or a Prostream the last view days?
this is PiG, Special and some other very good Players talking about the Chrono Boost
+ Show Spoiler +
Or watch last Olimoleague finals game 5 between Zest and TY.
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On November 16 2017 03:21 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2017 02:30 Endymion wrote:On November 16 2017 00:14 NonY wrote:
If it's a matter of money, then why isn't there an option to pay to force default skins? because blizzard would get crucified if it did something like that.. right now they're making money off of selling "more options" to people and they can just pretend/be negligent and not add the feature to disable skins... if they were to add it and charge for it people would lose their shit because it would be a tacit admission that balance is up for sale (instead of just being implied, like it is atm with skins). Then that's pretty clear that the people wanting skins in competitive play are just being abusive.
If skins served an inherit advantage, all progamers would use the same.
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On November 16 2017 03:21 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2017 02:30 Endymion wrote:On November 16 2017 00:14 NonY wrote:
If it's a matter of money, then why isn't there an option to pay to force default skins? because blizzard would get crucified if it did something like that.. right now they're making money off of selling "more options" to people and they can just pretend/be negligent and not add the feature to disable skins... if they were to add it and charge for it people would lose their shit because it would be a tacit admission that balance is up for sale (instead of just being implied, like it is atm with skins). Then that's pretty clear that the people wanting skins in competitive play are just being abusive. At least we can all agree on that. If there's no reason to complain because it'll never change, then I'll stop.
No people want skins because they look fucking cool not to gain some marginal advantage because the opponent might not make out what a unit is.
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On November 16 2017 03:21 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2017 02:30 Endymion wrote:On November 16 2017 00:14 NonY wrote:
If it's a matter of money, then why isn't there an option to pay to force default skins? because blizzard would get crucified if it did something like that.. right now they're making money off of selling "more options" to people and they can just pretend/be negligent and not add the feature to disable skins... if they were to add it and charge for it people would lose their shit because it would be a tacit admission that balance is up for sale (instead of just being implied, like it is atm with skins). Then that's pretty clear that the people wanting skins in competitive play are just being abusive. At least we can all agree on that. If there's no reason to complain because it'll never change, then I'll stop.
i'm not disagreeing with you at all, i completely agree that skins are stupid in sc2 because they offer a competitive advantage
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On November 16 2017 03:37 sc-darkness wrote:
There's probably no point discussing skins anymore. SC2 is free. Blizzard want to make money. You can guess what they're going to sell (skins is one of them).
If Blizzard just wants to make money they'd let SC2 fully prized and lock most of the units behind additional paywalls...
I still have some faith that they value the player experience above ripping the maximum amount of cash from their players.
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On November 16 2017 00:53 Corvuuss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2017 00:14 NonY wrote:
If it's a matter of money, then why isn't there an option to pay to force default skins? Because then people would complain that others couldn't see their skins. Skins are a prestige item. (Now I know many don't care about it, me included but there are many people influenced by things like that) And because they are a prestige item, people who use them want to show that to other people which wouldn't work if you could select an option/purchase something so that you couldn't see skins. Which would make the people who buy skins angry. And I think there are way more people who use skins and want to show them to other people than there are people who don't want to see skins (Even if it seems different here).
They want to show of that they have enough money to afford that shiny skin.
I want to show of that I'm so rich that I'm able to turn their skins of.
What's the difference? They should just give an alert to notify them that their opponent can't see their skin so I can really feel good about it.
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