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lestye
United States4186 Posts
On November 16 2017 08:48 NonY wrote: Blizzard has already required skins to be turned off for tournaments. So it already did happen. You're comparing tournament rules to something you want in the base game. Riot Games have had similar rules regarding certain skins for YEARS in the LCS. League doesn't have such an option. | ||
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virpi
Germany3599 Posts
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NonY
8751 Posts
On November 16 2017 09:01 lestye wrote: You're comparing tournament rules to something you want in the base game. Riot Games have had similar rules regarding certain skins for YEARS in the LCS. League doesn't have such an option. I specifically said competitive play :o edit: To clarify, there is a competition which starts at the ladder and leads into big live events. For live events, rules like no skins can be manually enforced. But for the ladder stage of the competition, such a rule cannot be manually enforced. So I'm saying I'd be willing to pay my share for the development of such a feature for the game client, just as people wanting to see skins have paid their share to have them implemented. I said that because people were claiming it was all about money. But the idea that Blizzard is so against disabling skins at all that they'd never ever do it is just plain false since they already do it. Whether or not such a thing gets put into the client is a matter of necessity. They don't need it for live events with smaller number of players, but they would need it if they wanted to enforce the rule for the ladder portion. So far, they've decided to just not disallow skins on the ladder. But I don't see why it's so crazy to think that they'd consider it. Especially when you've also got casual players who just dislike some of the skins and don't want to have to see them. | ||
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Odowan Paleolithic
United States232 Posts
On November 16 2017 02:32 MrWayne wrote: 2) Chrono Boost: It's nice for Protoss to have the cool energy based Chrono Boost back but the new one is way, way too good because of the insane stackability of this spell. Right now, if the terran get's unlucky and didn't scoute the proxy, it's 50/50 instant GG because if he builds blinde turrets and it's robo he's dead, if he didn't build turrets and it's stargate he's also dead because he will never have enough marines to defend, even if T scoute the proxy it's super hard to def and he will be almost certainly behind because he has to commit so much into defens. I know it's hard to predict how changes will turn out in the live game but if I had that idea, the first thing i would check is how fast can protoss get certain units out, especialy in the first 3-4min because not a lot of player interaction happens there. I don't know exactly what a good change would be, maybe change Chrono Boost to HotS Chrono Boost or make the Chrono Boost 50% longer but also 50% more energy so you can only boost the proxy oracle once. Perhaps both? They need to fix this two problems befor we can talk reasonable about other "minor" balance issues. I hope they can do this befor the WESG qualifier because right now, SC2 is more e-WWE than e-sport. thank you for reading, hope my english was not too bad Disclaimer: I haven't proxied anything in this patch yet. I played HOTS before. 2.1)How did the Terran's defend proxies in HOTS/WoL (polar night blink era) ? Does no one scv scouts anymore? 2.2)I believe HOTS chrono is stronger than this version but weaker than the old LotV one although I would be nice for Sholip to do one again. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/510475-the-myth-of-the-chrono-boost-buff-in-lotv The "current" one costs 50 energy and causes the target structure to operate 100% faster for 10 seconds. Nexus starting energy is increased to 50. The current one is more lethal due to 10 seconds duration but less "storable" due to 50 energy requirement. and for buildings that continuously builds it shaves off less seconds compared to hots. For example, you have a building that continuously builds. The HOTS chronoboost will shave 33% of the time it was applied or 10 sec build time saving for roughly every 32 seconds needed for the 25 energy. The new one takes 64 seconds to recharge and only shaves off 10sec build time from building time 20 seconds or larger. So in a whole minute the old one would shave at least 20 second build time where as the new one would only shave off 10 second build time. Economy wise since the HotS is only just about superior to the LotV old chrono if everything hits and not wasted on double cast, the new one is only going to be worse since each misuse is a 64 second recharge. In a way it is discouraging "macro" play. edit: word errors | ||
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MrWayne
219 Posts
On November 16 2017 09:35 Odowan Paleolithic wrote: Disclaimer: I haven't proxied anything in this patch yet. I played HOTS before. 2.1)How did the Terran's defend proxies in HOTS/WoL (polar night blink era) ? Does no one scv scouts anymore? 2.2)I believe HOTS chrono is stronger than this version but weaker than the old LotV one although I would be nice for Sholip to do one again. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/510475-the-myth-of-the-chrono-boost-buff-in-lotv The "current" one costs 50 energy and causes the target structure to operate 100% faster for 10 seconds. Nexus starting energy is increased to 50. The current one is more lethal due to 10 seconds duration but less "storable" due to 50 energy requirement. and for buildings that continuously builds it shaves off less seconds compared to hots. For example, you have a building that continuously builds. The HOTS chronoboost will shave 33% of the time it was applied or 10 sec build time saving for roughly every 32 seconds needed for the 25 energy. The new one takes 64 seconds to recharge and only shaves off 10sec build time from building time 20 seconds or larger. So in a whole minute the old one would shave at least 20 second build time where as the new one would only shave off 10 second build time. Economy wise since the HotS is only just about superior to the LotV old chrono if everything hits and not wasted on double cast, the new one is only going to be worse since each misuse is a 64 second recharge. In a way it is discouraging "macro" play. edit: word errors the fastest Ocracle build right know is: 12sup Pylon>Gateway>cybercore>proxy Stargate with the old patch, you could chrono boost the Stargate and it will work 15% faster all the time. that means the Oracle build time would be 30,3sec In the new patch, you saved 100 energy on your Nexus with this build so you can double chrono boost the Stargate. with the new Chrono Boost your buildings work 100% faster for 10sec, double chrono boost means 100% faster for 20sec, so the build time of the Oracle is only 18sec! + Show Spoiler + in that video Special/Major is showing some replays to PiG. He didn't find a build with whom he has 5 marines or a widow mine befor the Oracle arrives, he needs to go E-bay to be safe and well, going E-bay and turret befor 3min is realy bad for terran. + Show Spoiler + that's an interview from WardiTV with Harstem,Lambo and Optimus about the Balancepatch | ||
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necrosexy
451 Posts
what's next? liberator with emancipator mode? bad player: i played poorly by frantically hitting F2 and rallying observers away from their perched positions Blizzard: no problem! | ||
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engesser1
264 Posts
I like such expression | ||
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Jan1997
Norway671 Posts
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
On November 16 2017 09:24 NonY wrote: I specifically said competitive play :o edit: To clarify, there is a competition which starts at the ladder and leads into big live events. For live events, rules like no skins can be manually enforced. But for the ladder stage of the competition, such a rule cannot be manually enforced. So I'm saying I'd be willing to pay my share for the development of such a feature for the game client, just as people wanting to see skins have paid their share to have them implemented. I said that because people were claiming it was all about money. But the idea that Blizzard is so against disabling skins at all that they'd never ever do it is just plain false since they already do it. Whether or not such a thing gets put into the client is a matter of necessity. They don't need it for live events with smaller number of players, but they would need it if they wanted to enforce the rule for the ladder portion. So far, they've decided to just not disallow skins on the ladder. But I don't see why it's so crazy to think that they'd consider it. Especially when you've also got casual players who just dislike some of the skins and don't want to have to see them. I cannot believe someone like you is still arguing about the skins. What is so hard to understand? For the casual playerbase skins mean a lot, they are tagerted here. That also includes showing your skin to the opponent. Read the last sentence a couple of times so you REALLY understand why paying for turning off skins will NEVER be an option. In almost all games on all levels the outcome of a game wont be decided because of the skin of the unit. Your ladder rank over time will DEFINETELY NOT depend on skins being on or off. And in tournaments skins are off so no game outcome is affected by skins. How on earth this subject is so difficult to understand from Blizzard and overall playerbase point of view and see someone like you argue over this for so long is beyond me. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16021 Posts
On November 16 2017 16:35 papaz wrote: I cannot believe someone like you is still arguing about the skins. What is so hard to understand? For the casual playerbase skins mean a lot, they are tagerted here. That also includes showing your skin to the opponent. Read the last sentence a couple of times so you REALLY understand why paying for turning off skins will NEVER be an option. In almost all games on all levels the outcome of a game wont be decided because of the skin of the unit. Your ladder rank over time will DEFINETELY NOT depend on skins being on or off. And in tournaments skins are off so no game outcome is affected by skins. How on earth this subject is so difficult to understand from Blizzard and overall playerbase point of view and see someone like you argue over this for so long is beyond me. Your argument is ridicolous and makes no sense. That you're still arguing this is completely beyond me. You won't know what your opponent sees. I can select different graphic options so I view the game different anyway. How does it matter at all what your opponent sees, how does it affect your gaming experience? If your opponent enables the option to not show skins why do you want to force him to see something he doesn't want to see? To be a dick? | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
It's the dev's job to either give the players these options, or only make skins that will be perfectly or equally comfortable to read the gameplay, or both. That is if they care about the competitive players. Unless you just want it to be part of the game that you can gain an extra edge by camouflaging your units by switching to a bought skin, which is pretty dumb from a starcraft player point of view I think @@ | ||
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Creager
Germany1920 Posts
The only thing that bothers me is the people trying to silence the discussion by saying there's no point to it - feedback like this CAN trigger an reaction if there are enough people constantly bringing this up for consideration. Could also help to have community figures like TB who actually have some impact lobby for it. | ||
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FanaticCZ
Czech Republic287 Posts
On November 16 2017 17:36 Charoisaur wrote: Your argument is ridicolous and makes no sense. That you're still arguing this is completely beyond me. You won't know what your opponent sees. I can select different graphic options so I view the game different anyway. How does it matter at all what your opponent sees, how does it affect your gaming experience? If your opponent enables the option to not show skins why do you want to force him to see something he doesn't want to see? To be a dick? Well said | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On November 16 2017 15:59 Jan1997 wrote: Kinda off topic but I wonder if this will mean more activity on wol ladder. Sitting in 18 minute queues at 5 am for a 4v4 is not fun and partially made it unplayable for me. I hope this will help at least. It's all just sc2 now. WoL, HotS, LotV are the campaigns. The multiplayer only has a single ladder now and it's just called sc2. They rebranded the game and retired the WoL and HotS ladder when sc2 went f2p. So your queue times will definitely be shorter, since everybody is playing the same version now, but you won't be able to play WoL on the ladder. | ||
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xongnox
540 Posts
On November 16 2017 16:35 papaz wrote: In almost all games on all levels the outcome of a game wont be decided because of the skin of the unit. Your ladder rank over time will DEFINETELY NOT depend on skins being on or off. Well, plain false. I loose a significant % of my games vs skin-abusive players because of the skins. Some skins make some units really more hard to tell apart for me, i often even don't see banes or Templars because of it (and yes, you loose games when u don't see theses units coming at your army). Even without skins, since LoTV and adepts i have more difficulties with templars instant detection, because these too are too visually similar. I my have not the best vision or whatever, but a large proportion of decent SC2 players i know also complains about skins. (when you visually trained for years your brain to identify certain visual patterns, even changing the skin to legit one causes issues and a drop in performance for some time ) This is very frustrating. I welcome the f2p, but having paid 3 times the game, i only demand the legacy multiplayer experience, without allowing players to legally cheat by paying, is this that hard to understand ? If they let people deactivate opponent's skin on your side, only a small % of players will do so. | ||
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Agh
United States1016 Posts
On November 16 2017 16:35 papaz wrote: I cannot believe someone like you is still arguing about the skins. What is so hard to understand? For the casual playerbase skins mean a lot, they are tagerted here. That also includes showing your skin to the opponent. Read the last sentence a couple of times so you REALLY understand why paying for turning off skins will NEVER be an option. In almost all games on all levels the outcome of a game wont be decided because of the skin of the unit. Your ladder rank over time will DEFINETELY NOT depend on skins being on or off. And in tournaments skins are off so no game outcome is affected by skins. How on earth this subject is so difficult to understand from Blizzard and overall playerbase point of view and see someone like you argue over this for so long is beyond me. You're incredibly naive. Hopefully blizzard just takes the initiative in just adding a client side toggle to disable skins. The alternative solution will be like what most people do in league, just patch and replace the files for the skins. Both sides win no matter the course. The people that want to see their 'cool' units get to do so, those that don't want their playing experience negatively impacted don't have to. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3463 Posts
Hopefully we're at a point where there is enough skins and that people enjoy the skins that they use themselves, in which case not everyone would utilize this button. Personally I would use the button. | ||
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Jan1997
Norway671 Posts
On November 16 2017 19:08 Musicus wrote: It's all just sc2 now. WoL, HotS, LotV are the campaigns. The multiplayer only has a single ladder now and it's just called sc2. They rebranded the game and retired the WoL and HotS ladder when sc2 went f2p. So your queue times will definitely be shorter, since everybody is playing the same version now, but you won't be able to play WoL on the ladder. That's a little unfortunate. I assume that means wol maps are not included in the map pool  | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
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