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On October 12 2017 13:48 yht9657 wrote:1.  Stats2.  Rogue3.  INnoVation4. Dark5. TY6. herO7. GuMiho8. soO9. Neeb10. Serral11. Elazer12. Nerchio13. Snute14. MajOr15. Kelazhur16. TRUEStats is perhaps the most underrated and overlooked player of 2017 despite showing insane consistency in big tournaments and more than that, he did what Innovation could not. He carried the entire Protoss race by himself in its darkest time early this year when PVT winrate in professional games dropped to 40% and all the other big names of KR Protoss were nowhere to be seen. It's true that Innovation has been looking dominant all year long but his dominance is (as always)based on the overall superior situation of Terran, and last year when Terran was the inferior race in Korea Innovation basically disappeared.However as a Stats fan I'd rather he keeps getting overlooked/underrated by the majority of community since the last thing I want is getting his reputation damaged by some annoying reddit fan boys, I mean just look at those of ByuN's.
Pretty sure terran wouldn't be considered strong if Inno wouldn't performing well.
and pretty sure if Inno had performed well in 2016 terran would have been considered very strong back then.
The myth that Inno is performing only well when terran is doing well is one of the biggest horseshit narratives people have come up with
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On October 12 2017 16:24 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 13:48 yht9657 wrote:1. Stats2. Rogue3. INnoVation4. Dark5. TY6. herO7. GuMiho8. soO9. Neeb10. Serral11. Elazer12. Nerchio13. Snute14. MajOr15. Kelazhur16. TRUEStats is perhaps the most underrated and overlooked player of 2017 despite showing insane consistency in big tournaments and more than that, he did what Innovation could not. He carried the entire Protoss race by himself in its darkest time early this year when PVT winrate in professional games dropped to 40% and all the other big names of KR Protoss were nowhere to be seen. It's true that Innovation has been looking dominant all year long but his dominance is (as always)based on the overall superior situation of Terran, and last year when Terran was the inferior race in Korea Innovation basically disappeared.However as a Stats fan I'd rather he keeps getting overlooked/underrated by the majority of community since the last thing I want is getting his reputation damaged by some annoying reddit fan boys, I mean just look at those of ByuN's. Pretty sure terran wouldn't be considered strong if Inno wouldn't performing well. and pretty sure if Inno had performed well in 2016 terran would have been considered very strong back then. The myth that Inno is performing only well when terran is doing well is one of the biggest horseshit narratives people have come up with
If it was pretty broadly true in the past with INno being number 1 terran when terran is good, and being worse compared to the other terrans when terran is bad. 2017 has put a bit of a damper on that idea. Though it would be nice if in the spirit of scientific inquiry Blizzard threw in a few terran nerfs to see if INnoVation still performs better than his fellow terrans.
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i don't want to be counted, but two of stats, hero and soo will be in the ro4.
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France12904 Posts
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On October 12 2017 16:24 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 13:48 yht9657 wrote:
1. Stats
2. Rogue
3. INnoVation
4. Dark
5. TY
6. herO
7. GuMiho
8. soO
9. Neeb
10. Serral
11. Elazer
12. Nerchio
13. Snute
14. MajOr
15. Kelazhur
16. TRUE
Stats is perhaps the most underrated and overlooked player of 2017 despite showing insane consistency in big tournaments and more than that, he did what INnoVation could not. He carried the entire Protoss race by himself in its darkest TIME early this year when PVT winrate in professional games dropped to 40% and all the other big names of KR Protoss were nowhere to be seen. It's TRUE that INnoVation Has been looking dominant all year long but his dominance is (as always)based on the overall superior situation of Terran, and last year when Terran was the inferior race in Korea INnoVation basically disappeared.
However as a Stats Fan I'd rather he keeps getting overlooked/underrated by the majority of community since the last thing I WanT is getting his reputation damaged by some annoying reddit Fan Boys, I Mean just look at those of ByuN's.
Pretty sure terran wouldn't be considered strong if Inno wouldn't performing well. and pretty sure if Inno had performed well in 2016 terran would have been considered very strong back then. The Myth that Inno is performing only well when terran is doing well is one of the biggest horseshit narratives people have come up with
While I can't really speak to Inno only doing well when Terran is doing well, I looked briefly at the 2017 WCS Korea Circuit along with aligulac, and I found that
Terran won 3 non-weekend premier tournaments (GSL Season 2, 3, and SSL Season 1) and three weekend premier (GSL vs. the World sort of..., IEM Gyeonggi, and IEM Katowice).
Protoss won 2 non-weekend premier tournaments (GSL Season 1 and SSL Season 2) and one weekend premier (Super Tournament 1)
Zerg won two weekend premier (Super Tournament 2 and IEM Shanghai)
In every tournament except the SSL Season 1 and 2, Terran was strongly represented (Max while still being evenly representative, so in a ro8 having 3, ro16 having 6, ro32 having 11) or overrepresented.
Greater than 6 T (Super Tournament 1 and 2) at the beginning of the tournament
Strongly represented with 3 T in ro8 (IEM Shanghai, GSL Season 3, and IEM Gyeonggi)
Overrepresented with 4 T in ro8 (GSL Season 1, 2) and 6 T in ro12 (IEM Katowice)
So, when looking at whether a race is doing well or not, of course it is important to look not just at the winners but at the players who do well alongside the winners. And I think, when looking at this, it seems like Terran has been overrepresented or strongly represented for most of the year except in SSL, which is a strange case. I don't think it is correct to say that Terran has been overpowered this season, but it certainly correct to say that Terran has been strong this year.
Additionally, Terran had three unique winners, Protoss had two, and Zerg had one. So it is also incorrect to say that it was just one Terran winning everything, and if you take him out, suddenly the race is underpowered, as taking out Inno leaves Terran with two premier wins and three unique runner ups.
EDIT:
Also,
1. INnoVation
2. Rogue
3. herO
4. Dark
5. Stats
6. TY
7. soO
8. Neeb
9. Serral
10. GuMiho
11. Snute
12. Elazer
13. Nerchio
14. MajOr
15. TRUE
16. Kelazhur
They really need a way to TLPDize only part of your post otherwise you Start talking about Myth and Which (and I'm like WhO?
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i love this stats love im seeing
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
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On October 12 2017 07:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 06:52 pvsnp wrote:On October 12 2017 06:04 Z3nith wrote:TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017. Alright, Inno I get, but to say TY and Rogue have dominated is just wrong. Stats has had a better year than either of them. I'm not talking about who is actually the best. I'm talking about who the community has been claiming is the best. There is a difference. Stats has a pretty legitimate claim for being the best player of 2017. His consistency across the whole year has been incredible. Inno probably has the best claim simply because he's won so many more trophies than everyone else, but whereas people loved to talk about TY at the beginning of the year and love to talk about Rogue now, Stats barely gets any attention despite having a better claim than either of them. Hype isn't always tied to skill. Inno has tons of hype and skill, ByuN has more hype than skill, and Stats has more skill than hype. TY is as overhyped as ByuN imo. He's been unimpressive (certainly not bad by any means but nothing exceptional) in the last six months yet people still consider him one of the very best. He's been on a slow upswing though, so maybe he do well at Blizzcon.
TY is not as overhyped as ByuN, by any standard. ByuN hasn't looked like a contender for anything since tankivacs and reapers got nerfed. Whereas TY has been consistantly beating the guys at the top for almost all of LoTV.
The issue with TY is that he only performs in the big events (worth noting that blizzcon is a big event), he does trash in small/online cups. In the last 6 months of GSL/IEMs (aka the big events), he's beaten Rogue, Patience, aLive, Inno, Stats, soO, and Dark in major matches, unimpressive right?
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On October 12 2017 19:14 FrkFrJss wrote:They really need a way to TLPDize only part of your post otherwise you Start talking about Myth and Which (and I'm like WhO?
Just select the desired part before you TLPDize :p
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On October 12 2017 23:15 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 07:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 12 2017 06:52 pvsnp wrote:On October 12 2017 06:04 Z3nith wrote:TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017. Alright, Inno I get, but to say TY and Rogue have dominated is just wrong. Stats has had a better year than either of them. I'm not talking about who is actually the best. I'm talking about who the community has been claiming is the best. There is a difference. Stats has a pretty legitimate claim for being the best player of 2017. His consistency across the whole year has been incredible. Inno probably has the best claim simply because he's won so many more trophies than everyone else, but whereas people loved to talk about TY at the beginning of the year and love to talk about Rogue now, Stats barely gets any attention despite having a better claim than either of them. Hype isn't always tied to skill. Inno has tons of hype and skill, ByuN has more hype than skill, and Stats has more skill than hype. TY is as overhyped as ByuN imo. He's been unimpressive (certainly not bad by any means but nothing exceptional) in the last six months yet people still consider him one of the very best. He's been on a slow upswing though, so maybe he do well at Blizzcon. TY is not as overhyped as ByuN, by any standard. ByuN hasn't looked like a contender for anything since tankivacs and reapers got nerfed. Whereas TY has been consistantly beating the guys at the top for almost all of LoTV. The issue with TY is that he only performs in the big events (worth noting that blizzcon is a big event), he does trash in small/online cups. In the last 6 months of GSL/IEMs (aka the big events), he's beaten Rogue, Patience, aLive, Inno, Stats, soO, and Dark in major matches, unimpressive right?
That's very unimpressive actually. You'd expect much more from someone who's supposedly one of the best. Looking at the last 6 months his offline bo3+ win rate against Protoss and Terran has been around 50%, which is pretty awful. And cherry-picking a few results doesn't help that. ByuN's beaten Rogue, soO, herO, Patience, sOs, TY, Classic offline in the last 6 months.
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On October 13 2017 01:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 23:15 Fango wrote:On October 12 2017 07:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 12 2017 06:52 pvsnp wrote:On October 12 2017 06:04 Z3nith wrote:TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017. Alright, Inno I get, but to say TY and Rogue have dominated is just wrong. Stats has had a better year than either of them. I'm not talking about who is actually the best. I'm talking about who the community has been claiming is the best. There is a difference. Stats has a pretty legitimate claim for being the best player of 2017. His consistency across the whole year has been incredible. Inno probably has the best claim simply because he's won so many more trophies than everyone else, but whereas people loved to talk about TY at the beginning of the year and love to talk about Rogue now, Stats barely gets any attention despite having a better claim than either of them. Hype isn't always tied to skill. Inno has tons of hype and skill, ByuN has more hype than skill, and Stats has more skill than hype. TY is as overhyped as ByuN imo. He's been unimpressive (certainly not bad by any means but nothing exceptional) in the last six months yet people still consider him one of the very best. He's been on a slow upswing though, so maybe he do well at Blizzcon. TY is not as overhyped as ByuN, by any standard. ByuN hasn't looked like a contender for anything since tankivacs and reapers got nerfed. Whereas TY has been consistantly beating the guys at the top for almost all of LoTV. The issue with TY is that he only performs in the big events (worth noting that blizzcon is a big event), he does trash in small/online cups. In the last 6 months of GSL/IEMs (aka the big events), he's beaten Rogue, Patience, aLive, Inno, Stats, soO, and Dark in major matches, unimpressive right? That's very unimpressive actually. You'd expect much more from someone who's supposedly one of the best. Looking at the last 6 months his offline bo3+ win rate against Protoss and Terran has been around 50%, which is pretty awful. And cherry-picking a few results doesn't help that. ByuN's beaten Rogue, soO, herO, Patience, sOs, TY, Classic offline in the last 6 months.
Right...beating almost every other contender for "best player" in the last 6 months in premier events, is unimpressive? What kind of standard is that? And I'm not cherry picking, I'm just exclusively using GSL/IEM results.
In the last 6 months, his winrates in those are 65% TvP, 85% TvZ, 53% TvT, and 65% overall. If you want a comparion, Inno's offline winrates in the same time period are 60% TvP, 75% TvZ, 69% TvT, and 68% overall. This is why people say TY is a strong blizzcon contender, he looks weak in smaller tournaments, but when it comes to the important events he's (usually) in good shape.
And btw ByuN has done good recently, GSL ro8 twice in a row is always impressive. He's just not the bonjwa people make him out to be (this year at least)
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On October 12 2017 07:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 06:52 pvsnp wrote:On October 12 2017 06:04 Z3nith wrote:TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017. Alright, Inno I get, but to say TY and Rogue have dominated is just wrong. Stats has had a better year than either of them. I'm not talking about who is actually the best. I'm talking about who the community has been claiming is the best. There is a difference. Stats has a pretty legitimate claim for being the best player of 2017. His consistency across the whole year has been incredible. Inno probably has the best claim simply because he's won so many more trophies than everyone else, but whereas people loved to talk about TY at the beginning of the year and love to talk about Rogue now, Stats barely gets any attention despite having a better claim than either of them. Hype isn't always tied to skill. Inno has tons of hype and skill, ByuN has more hype than skill, and Stats has more skill than hype. TY is as overhyped as ByuN imo. He's been unimpressive (certainly not bad by any means but nothing exceptional) in the last six months yet people still consider him one of the very best. He's been on a slow upswing though, so maybe he do well at Blizzcon.
Don't you think 6 months is a bit much? Who can really say of themselves they were impressive for the entirety of the last 6 months? herO had 3 good tournaments and many weak performances in-between over 6 months. GuMiho hasn't had a single decent offline run since he won GSL. TY had his usual Ro8s in GSL, a top 4 at IEM and 2nd at GSL vs the World, but also didn't qualify for the Super Tournament, etc.
I do think people tend to overhype players, and TY has been one of them this year certainly(probably in due part because Artosis loves him so much), but I also think that TY's position in the food chain hasn't actually varied much this year. Kind of like how Stats has been the best Protoss in the world practically all year, TY has been the 2nd best Korean Terran practically all year. And being the 2nd best Korean Terran puts you pretty far up the food chain.
Fun fact about Stats also, he's arguably the most consistent player of 2017, but if you just got his winrates since his Code S win, you'd think he's a B-teamer.
16. Kelazhur
15. TRUE
14. SpeCial
13. Nerchio
12. Snute
11. Elazer
10. GuMiho
9. Serral
8. Neeb
7. soO
6. herO
5. TY
4. Stats
3. Dark
2. Rogue
1. INnoVation
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On October 13 2017 03:38 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 07:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 12 2017 06:52 pvsnp wrote:On October 12 2017 06:04 Z3nith wrote:TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017. Alright, Inno I get, but to say TY and Rogue have dominated is just wrong. Stats has had a better year than either of them. I'm not talking about who is actually the best. I'm talking about who the community has been claiming is the best. There is a difference. Stats has a pretty legitimate claim for being the best player of 2017. His consistency across the whole year has been incredible. Inno probably has the best claim simply because he's won so many more trophies than everyone else, but whereas people loved to talk about TY at the beginning of the year and love to talk about Rogue now, Stats barely gets any attention despite having a better claim than either of them. Hype isn't always tied to skill. Inno has tons of hype and skill, ByuN has more hype than skill, and Stats has more skill than hype. TY is as overhyped as ByuN imo. He's been unimpressive (certainly not bad by any means but nothing exceptional) in the last six months yet people still consider him one of the very best. He's been on a slow upswing though, so maybe he do well at Blizzcon. Don't you think 6 months is a bit much? Who can really say of themselves they were impressive for the entirety of the last 6 months? herO had 3 good tournaments and many weak performances in-between over 6 months. GuMiho hasn't had a single decent offline run since he won GSL. TY had his usual Ro8s in GSL, a top 4 at IEM and 2nd at GSL vs the World, but also didn't qualify for the Super Tournament, etc. I do think people tend to overhype players, and TY has been one of them this year certainly(probably in due part because Artosis loves him so much), but I also think that TY's position in the food chain hasn't actually varied much this year. Kind of like how Stats has been the best Protoss in the world practically all year, TY has been the 2nd best Korean Terran practically all year. And being the 2nd best Korean Terran puts you pretty far up the food chain. Fun fact about Stats also, he's arguably the most consistent player of 2017, but if you just got his winrates since his Code S win, you'd think he's a B-teamer. 16. Kelazhur15. TRUE14. SpeCial13. Nerchio12. Snute11. Elazer10. GuMiho9. Serral8. Neeb7. soO6. herO5. TY4. Stats3. Dark2. Rogue1. INnoVation
I'm saying that he hasn't been particularly impressive at any point over the last six months, not that he needs to be impressive over a six month period. Even his good runs are punctuated by losses where he looks hopeless. I don't think he's bad, just not the championship contender that people seem to think he is.
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EPT
