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Here are the results for the Power Ranking!
I will compare this PR to the official TL one which you can find here
Directly to the list
Compact as list:
1.  INnoVation (882pts)
2.  Rogue (811)
3.  Stats (796)
4. Dark (784)
5. herO (654)
6. soO (643)
7. TY (640)
8. Neeb (574)
9. GuMiho (492)
10. Serral (402)
11. Elazer (371)
12. Snute (256)
13. Nerchio (248)
14. MajOr (201)
15. TRUE (157)
16. Kelazhur (96)
+ Show Spoiler [original op] +Here we go again! Now that TL started to release their content for Blizzcon i thought it is a good time to do the next version of the community power ranking! This is a blizzcon edition which means that you have to rank the 16 players who will compete for the blizzcon championship title. You can find a list of them here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_WCS_Global_FinalsTo be clear: The list should reflect your opinion on the current strength of these 16 players. What i want you to do: Post your own power ranking in this thread, 16 players only, sorted by their current strength in LOTV. I will only count 'serious' lists, putting in anyone who doesn't play at blizzcon won't do it. New: Also pls TLPD-ize your lists, i will only count lists which are formatted that way! So how would it work? It's pretty simple, just post your top 16 in this thread. I will go through every post and add the points up. The point distribution will be like that: 1. place = 16 points 2. place = 15 points 3. place = 14 points etc. How much time do i have to post the list?
You will have two weeks, which means i will count every list which is posted till October 25. ( Time left to make a list: ) Feel free to discuss your rankings in this thread, if you have extra passion you also can write a short text for your favorite player and post it in here as well (it could be used for the final standings) Reminder: You can change your list as often as you like, but i will only count the first list you posted in this thread (which means you should edit your post ) Other editions: Power Rank 1: Power Rank 2: Blizzcon EditionPower Rank 3: Let it be LOTV!Power Rank 4: After the StarleaguesPower Rank 5: Blizzcon with foreignersPower Rank 6: Happy new yearPower Rank 7: Hard Decisions
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1. INnoVation
2. Stats
3. Dark
4. herO[jOin]
5. soO
6. TY
7. GuMiho
8. Rogue
9. Neeb
10. Serral
11. Elazer
12. Nerchio
13. TRUE
14. Snute
15. SpeCial, MajOr, WinDy, Terran, Princess, Britney, Kitty, Memory, CuteAngel, NoNge, SpeCIal, shofu, Light, ilovealtaria, Mrjamvad, basedlordctc
16. Kelazhur
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Canada8989 Posts
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1. INnoVation
2. Rogue
3. Stats
4. TY
5. Dark
6. herO
7. soO
8. Serral
9. Neeb
10. Elazer
11. GuMiho
12. SpeCial MajOr
13. Nerchio
14. TRUE
15. Snute
16. Kelazhur
I want soO to do really well but Rogue and Dark and Stats feel like they have things very well figured out and herO is a tricksy SoS protoss ready to nullify everyones preparation.
GumiHo losing 6-2 to Elazer and 4-0 on ladder to Serral foreigner-hypes me too much to not put him below them.
My faith in Snutes ZvP and ZvZ is a little lower than the other foreigners. I do think he has a chance of getting to Ro8 by beating TY in the deciders match of group A. It's more likely though that TY is in stellar form and crushes everyone!
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I'm not great at power ranking but my top 3 are more so who i think are currently at the top of the race. I just hope soO improves his ZvT. Plenty of players who are kinda even to me, like I place Nerchio and Snute very close to eachother in skill, as well as Kela and Major, though I might favor special more often.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51484 Posts
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all these people with inno > stats 
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On October 12 2017 04:05 Cricketer12 wrote:all these people with inno > stats
Inno is the easy pick for #1 though. Only Rogue might be better atm. Stats dropping out in the first round of the Super Tournament, followed by herO's amazing run, shifted the "best Protoss" spotlight away from him.
Also Stats is kinda just forgettable, his storyline/hype train is just inferior to those of Rogue (only 2017 KR Zerg champion, first peak, etc) and Inno (Terran hope, GOAT, etc).
I will get around to posting my list here, with some justification, eventually. Also, I linked this thread on r/starcraft.
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United States1867 Posts
1. soO
2. Durn
3. Char
4. ArtyK
5. Olli
6. Ej
7. Mizenhauer
8. Poopi
9. Elentos
10. Inflicted
11. Kashim
12. Seeker
13. Viper
14. Cricketer
15. Railgan
16. Luolis
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On October 12 2017 05:05 mizenhauer wrote:1. soO2. Durn 3. Char 4. ArtyK 5. Olli 6. Ej 7. Mizenhauer 8. Poopi 9. Elentos 10. Inflicted 11. Kashim 12. Seeker 13. Viper 14. Cricketer 15. Railgan 16. Luolis
Wow 14 but elentos is 9? Also Ej should be 2nd
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On October 12 2017 04:43 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 04:05 Cricketer12 wrote:all these people with inno > stats Inno is the easy pick for #1 though. Only Rogue might be better atm. Stats dropping out in the first round of the Super Tournament, followed by herO's amazing run, shifted the "best Protoss" spotlight away from him. Also Stats is kinda just forgettable, his storyline/hype train is just inferior to those of Rogue (only 2017 KR Zerg champion, first peak, etc) and Inno (Terran hope, GOAT, etc). I will get around to posting my list here, with some justification, eventually. Also, I linked this thread on r/starcraft.
Top 4 in last 12/14 premiers in Korea. Best and most consistant player of legacy with the highest peak. Super forgettable.
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On October 12 2017 05:08 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 04:43 pvsnp wrote:On October 12 2017 04:05 Cricketer12 wrote:all these people with inno > stats Inno is the easy pick for #1 though. Only Rogue might be better atm. Stats dropping out in the first round of the Super Tournament, followed by herO's amazing run, shifted the "best Protoss" spotlight away from him. Also Stats is kinda just forgettable, his storyline/hype train is just inferior to those of Rogue (only 2017 KR Zerg champion, first peak, etc) and Inno (Terran hope, GOAT, etc). I will get around to posting my list here, with some justification, eventually. Also, I linked this thread on r/starcraft. Top 4 in last 12/14 premiers in Korea. Best and most consistant player of legacy with the highest peak. Super forgettable.
Exactly.
All three of those statements are true (second is very arguable though). Call it unfair if you like, but Stats quite simply doesn't get the attention/hype that some other players do, despite putting up great results.
Stats is consistent, but Inno definitely peaked higher than he did. Stats never made an insane run like Inno did at GSL vs the World, nor did he win multiple tournaments in quick succession like Inno did with GSL Season 3 a month later. "Best" is an incredibly subjective term, but assuming you meant "most skilled" then Stats only occupied that position for a few weeks at best, just after winning GSL Season 1. TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017.
Whatever the reason, Stats stands in the shadows while his peers take the glory.
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On October 12 2017 05:14 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 05:08 Cricketer12 wrote:On October 12 2017 04:43 pvsnp wrote:On October 12 2017 04:05 Cricketer12 wrote:all these people with inno > stats Inno is the easy pick for #1 though. Only Rogue might be better atm. Stats dropping out in the first round of the Super Tournament, followed by herO's amazing run, shifted the "best Protoss" spotlight away from him. Also Stats is kinda just forgettable, his storyline/hype train is just inferior to those of Rogue (only 2017 KR Zerg champion, first peak, etc) and Inno (Terran hope, GOAT, etc). I will get around to posting my list here, with some justification, eventually. Also, I linked this thread on r/starcraft. Top 4 in last 12/14 premiers in Korea. Best and most consistant player of legacy with the highest peak. Super forgettable. Exactly. All three of those statements are true (second is very arguable though). Call it unfair if you like, but Stats quite simply doesn't get the attention/hype that some other players do, despite putting up great results. Stats is consistent, but Inno definitely peaked higher than he did. Stats never made an insane run like Inno did at GSL vs the World, nor did he win multiple tournaments in quick succession like Inno did with GSL Season 3 a month later. "Best" is an incredibly subjective term, but assuming you meant "most skilled" then Stats only occupied that position for a few weeks at best, just after winning GSL Season 1. TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017. Whatever the reason, Stats stands in the shadows while his peers take the glory.
Being incredibly consistent and good over the entire year doesn't mean that you should do well at that a power rank considering the current moment though.
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On October 12 2017 05:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 05:14 pvsnp wrote:On October 12 2017 05:08 Cricketer12 wrote:On October 12 2017 04:43 pvsnp wrote:On October 12 2017 04:05 Cricketer12 wrote:all these people with inno > stats Inno is the easy pick for #1 though. Only Rogue might be better atm. Stats dropping out in the first round of the Super Tournament, followed by herO's amazing run, shifted the "best Protoss" spotlight away from him. Also Stats is kinda just forgettable, his storyline/hype train is just inferior to those of Rogue (only 2017 KR Zerg champion, first peak, etc) and Inno (Terran hope, GOAT, etc). I will get around to posting my list here, with some justification, eventually. Also, I linked this thread on r/starcraft. Top 4 in last 12/14 premiers in Korea. Best and most consistant player of legacy with the highest peak. Super forgettable. Exactly. All three of those statements are true (second is very arguable though). Call it unfair if you like, but Stats quite simply doesn't get the attention/hype that some other players do, despite putting up great results. Stats is consistent, but Inno definitely peaked higher than he did. Stats never made an insane run like Inno did at GSL vs the World, nor did he win multiple tournaments in quick succession like Inno did with GSL Season 3 a month later. "Best" is an incredibly subjective term, but assuming you meant "most skilled" then Stats only occupied that position for a few weeks at best, just after winning GSL Season 1. TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017. Whatever the reason, Stats stands in the shadows while his peers take the glory. Being incredibly consistent and good over the entire year doesn't mean that you should do well at that a power rank considering the current moment though.
Yep, I was arguing against somebody that said Stats > Inno. As of right now, Inno > Stats for sure. Rogue is the only guy that might displace Inno at #1 atm.
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TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017.
Alright, Inno I get, but to say TY and Rogue have dominated is just wrong. Stats has had a better year than either of them.
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On October 12 2017 06:04 Z3nith wrote:Show nested quote +TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017. Alright, Inno I get, but to say TY and Rogue have dominated is just wrong. Stats has had a better year than either of them.
I'm not talking about who is actually the best. I'm talking about who the community has been claiming is the best. There is a difference.
Stats has a pretty legitimate claim for being the best player of 2017. His consistency across the whole year has been incredible. Inno probably has the best claim simply because he's won so many more trophies than everyone else, but whereas people loved to talk about TY at the beginning of the year and love to talk about Rogue now, Stats barely gets any attention despite having a better claim than either of them.
Hype isn't always tied to skill. Inno has tons of hype and skill, ByuN has more hype than skill, and Stats has more skill than hype.
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On October 12 2017 06:52 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 06:04 Z3nith wrote:TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017. Alright, Inno I get, but to say TY and Rogue have dominated is just wrong. Stats has had a better year than either of them. I'm not talking about who is actually the best. I'm talking about who the community has been claiming is the best. There is a difference. Stats has a pretty legitimate claim for being the best player of 2017. His consistency across the whole year has been incredible. Inno probably has the best claim simply because he's won so many more trophies than everyone else, but whereas people loved to talk about TY at the beginning of the year and love to talk about Rogue now, Stats barely gets any attention despite having a better claim than either of them. Hype isn't always tied to skill. Inno has tons of hype and skill, ByuN has more hype than skill, and Stats has more skill than hype.
TY is as overhyped as ByuN imo. He's been unimpressive (certainly not bad by any means but nothing exceptional) in the last six months yet people still consider him one of the very best. He's been on a slow upswing though, so maybe he do well at Blizzcon.
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It's a Blizzcon power rank, so the list will be disregarded if you include sOs, ByuN, Maru.
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your Country52797 Posts
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(1) Stats
(2) Rogue
(etc) INnoVation
herO
Neeb
Dark
GuMiho
TY
soO
MajOr
Serral
Elazer
Nerchio
TRUE
Snute
Kelazhur
One thing I don't get ... how will the OP differentiate between 9th-16th place? They're all in the same place as far as the tournament goes and all those in 5th-8th will also be sort of indistinguishable. Similarly I don't think there's any distinction made at the tournament between 3rd and 4th place.
Possibly something like:
16 - first place
15 - second place
27 (14+13) if both third and fourth place are present (order not important), 13 if only one is present, 0 otherwise
42 (woot!) (12+11+10+9) if all four of the 5th-8th place members are present, 30 (11+10+9) if one is missing, etc
36 (8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1) if all 8 of the last members are present, etc
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I think the goal is just to make a Community Power Rank, it is not a contest to predict BlizzCon results.
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1. Dark
2. INnoVation
3. Stats
4. Rogue
5. soO
6. herO
7. TY
8. Serral
9. Elazer
10. Neeb
11. Snute
12. Gumiho
13. Special
14. Nerchio
15. True
16. Kelazhur
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1. Stats
2. Rogue
3. INnoVation
4. Dark
5. TY
6. herO
7. GuMiho
8. soO
9. Neeb
10. Serral
11. Elazer
12. Nerchio
13. Snute
14. MajOr
15. Kelazhur
16. TRUE
Stats is perhaps the most underrated and overlooked player of 2017 despite showing insane consistency in big tournaments and more than that, he did what Innovation could not. He carried the entire Protoss race by himself in its darkest time early this year when PVT winrate in professional games dropped to 40% and all the other big names of KR Protoss were nowhere to be seen. It's true that Innovation has been looking dominant all year long but his dominance is (as always)based on the overall superior situation of Terran, and last year when Terran was the inferior race in Korea Innovation basically disappeared.
However as a Stats fan I'd rather he keeps getting overlooked/underrated by the majority of community since the last thing I want is getting his reputation damaged by some annoying reddit fan boys, I mean just look at those of ByuN's.
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I feel like everyone is criminally underrating herO's recent form. I feel like a top 5 is some order of Innovation / Rogue / Dark / Stats / herO and have a hard time seeing anyone else in that group but would love to hear arguments for otherwise.
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On October 12 2017 13:48 yht9657 wrote:1. Stats2. Rogue3. INnoVation4. Dark5. TY6. herO7. GuMiho8. soO9. Neeb10. Serral11. Elazer12. Nerchio13. Snute14. MajOr15. Kelazhur16. TRUEStats is perhaps the most underrated and overlooked player of 2017 despite showing insane consistency in big tournaments and more than that, he did what Innovation could not. He carried the entire Protoss race by himself in its darkest time early this year when PVT winrate in professional games dropped to 40% and all the other big names of KR Protoss were nowhere to be seen. It's true that Innovation has been looking dominant all year long but his dominance is (as always)based on the overall superior situation of Terran, and last year when Terran was the inferior race in Korea Innovation basically disappeared. However as a Stats fan I'd rather he keeps getting overlooked/underrated by the majority of community since the last thing I want is getting his reputation damaged by some annoying reddit fan boys, I mean just look at those of ByuN's.
INnoVation spendt a lot of 2016 in LoL, as he stated in an interview, until a showmatch that he had to play during Blizzcon woken him.
Stats is, imo, the second best player of 2017, but I have some concerns about his current form.
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On October 12 2017 13:48 yht9657 wrote:1. Stats2. Rogue3. INnoVation4. Dark5. TY6. herO7. GuMiho8. soO9. Neeb10. Serral11. Elazer12. Nerchio13. Snute14. MajOr15. Kelazhur16. TRUEStats is perhaps the most underrated and overlooked player of 2017 despite showing insane consistency in big tournaments and more than that, he did what Innovation could not. He carried the entire Protoss race by himself in its darkest time early this year when PVT winrate in professional games dropped to 40% and all the other big names of KR Protoss were nowhere to be seen. It's true that Innovation has been looking dominant all year long but his dominance is (as always)based on the overall superior situation of Terran, and last year when Terran was the inferior race in Korea Innovation basically disappeared.However as a Stats fan I'd rather he keeps getting overlooked/underrated by the majority of community since the last thing I want is getting his reputation damaged by some annoying reddit fan boys, I mean just look at those of ByuN's.
Pretty sure terran wouldn't be considered strong if Inno wouldn't performing well.
and pretty sure if Inno had performed well in 2016 terran would have been considered very strong back then.
The myth that Inno is performing only well when terran is doing well is one of the biggest horseshit narratives people have come up with
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On October 12 2017 16:24 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 13:48 yht9657 wrote:1. Stats2. Rogue3. INnoVation4. Dark5. TY6. herO7. GuMiho8. soO9. Neeb10. Serral11. Elazer12. Nerchio13. Snute14. MajOr15. Kelazhur16. TRUEStats is perhaps the most underrated and overlooked player of 2017 despite showing insane consistency in big tournaments and more than that, he did what Innovation could not. He carried the entire Protoss race by himself in its darkest time early this year when PVT winrate in professional games dropped to 40% and all the other big names of KR Protoss were nowhere to be seen. It's true that Innovation has been looking dominant all year long but his dominance is (as always)based on the overall superior situation of Terran, and last year when Terran was the inferior race in Korea Innovation basically disappeared.However as a Stats fan I'd rather he keeps getting overlooked/underrated by the majority of community since the last thing I want is getting his reputation damaged by some annoying reddit fan boys, I mean just look at those of ByuN's. Pretty sure terran wouldn't be considered strong if Inno wouldn't performing well. and pretty sure if Inno had performed well in 2016 terran would have been considered very strong back then. The myth that Inno is performing only well when terran is doing well is one of the biggest horseshit narratives people have come up with
If it was pretty broadly true in the past with INno being number 1 terran when terran is good, and being worse compared to the other terrans when terran is bad. 2017 has put a bit of a damper on that idea. Though it would be nice if in the spirit of scientific inquiry Blizzard threw in a few terran nerfs to see if INnoVation still performs better than his fellow terrans.
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i don't want to be counted, but two of stats, hero and soo will be in the ro4.
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France12873 Posts
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On October 12 2017 16:24 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 13:48 yht9657 wrote:
1. Stats
2. Rogue
3. INnoVation
4. Dark
5. TY
6. herO
7. GuMiho
8. soO
9. Neeb
10. Serral
11. Elazer
12. Nerchio
13. Snute
14. MajOr
15. Kelazhur
16. TRUE
Stats is perhaps the most underrated and overlooked player of 2017 despite showing insane consistency in big tournaments and more than that, he did what INnoVation could not. He carried the entire Protoss race by himself in its darkest TIME early this year when PVT winrate in professional games dropped to 40% and all the other big names of KR Protoss were nowhere to be seen. It's TRUE that INnoVation Has been looking dominant all year long but his dominance is (as always)based on the overall superior situation of Terran, and last year when Terran was the inferior race in Korea INnoVation basically disappeared.
However as a Stats Fan I'd rather he keeps getting overlooked/underrated by the majority of community since the last thing I WanT is getting his reputation damaged by some annoying reddit Fan Boys, I Mean just look at those of ByuN's.
Pretty sure terran wouldn't be considered strong if Inno wouldn't performing well. and pretty sure if Inno had performed well in 2016 terran would have been considered very strong back then. The Myth that Inno is performing only well when terran is doing well is one of the biggest horseshit narratives people have come up with
While I can't really speak to Inno only doing well when Terran is doing well, I looked briefly at the 2017 WCS Korea Circuit along with aligulac, and I found that
Terran won 3 non-weekend premier tournaments (GSL Season 2, 3, and SSL Season 1) and three weekend premier (GSL vs. the World sort of..., IEM Gyeonggi, and IEM Katowice).
Protoss won 2 non-weekend premier tournaments (GSL Season 1 and SSL Season 2) and one weekend premier (Super Tournament 1)
Zerg won two weekend premier (Super Tournament 2 and IEM Shanghai)
In every tournament except the SSL Season 1 and 2, Terran was strongly represented (Max while still being evenly representative, so in a ro8 having 3, ro16 having 6, ro32 having 11) or overrepresented.
Greater than 6 T (Super Tournament 1 and 2) at the beginning of the tournament
Strongly represented with 3 T in ro8 (IEM Shanghai, GSL Season 3, and IEM Gyeonggi)
Overrepresented with 4 T in ro8 (GSL Season 1, 2) and 6 T in ro12 (IEM Katowice)
So, when looking at whether a race is doing well or not, of course it is important to look not just at the winners but at the players who do well alongside the winners. And I think, when looking at this, it seems like Terran has been overrepresented or strongly represented for most of the year except in SSL, which is a strange case. I don't think it is correct to say that Terran has been overpowered this season, but it certainly correct to say that Terran has been strong this year.
Additionally, Terran had three unique winners, Protoss had two, and Zerg had one. So it is also incorrect to say that it was just one Terran winning everything, and if you take him out, suddenly the race is underpowered, as taking out Inno leaves Terran with two premier wins and three unique runner ups.
EDIT:
Also,
1. INnoVation
2. Rogue
3. herO
4. Dark
5. Stats
6. TY
7. soO
8. Neeb
9. Serral
10. GuMiho
11. Snute
12. Elazer
13. Nerchio
14. MajOr
15. TRUE
16. Kelazhur
They really need a way to TLPDize only part of your post otherwise you Start talking about Myth and Which (and I'm like WhO?
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i love this stats love im seeing
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
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On October 12 2017 07:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 06:52 pvsnp wrote:On October 12 2017 06:04 Z3nith wrote:TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017. Alright, Inno I get, but to say TY and Rogue have dominated is just wrong. Stats has had a better year than either of them. I'm not talking about who is actually the best. I'm talking about who the community has been claiming is the best. There is a difference. Stats has a pretty legitimate claim for being the best player of 2017. His consistency across the whole year has been incredible. Inno probably has the best claim simply because he's won so many more trophies than everyone else, but whereas people loved to talk about TY at the beginning of the year and love to talk about Rogue now, Stats barely gets any attention despite having a better claim than either of them. Hype isn't always tied to skill. Inno has tons of hype and skill, ByuN has more hype than skill, and Stats has more skill than hype. TY is as overhyped as ByuN imo. He's been unimpressive (certainly not bad by any means but nothing exceptional) in the last six months yet people still consider him one of the very best. He's been on a slow upswing though, so maybe he do well at Blizzcon.
TY is not as overhyped as ByuN, by any standard. ByuN hasn't looked like a contender for anything since tankivacs and reapers got nerfed. Whereas TY has been consistantly beating the guys at the top for almost all of LoTV.
The issue with TY is that he only performs in the big events (worth noting that blizzcon is a big event), he does trash in small/online cups. In the last 6 months of GSL/IEMs (aka the big events), he's beaten Rogue, Patience, aLive, Inno, Stats, soO, and Dark in major matches, unimpressive right?
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On October 12 2017 19:14 FrkFrJss wrote:They really need a way to TLPDize only part of your post otherwise you Start talking about Myth and Which (and I'm like WhO?
Just select the desired part before you TLPDize :p
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On October 12 2017 23:15 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 07:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 12 2017 06:52 pvsnp wrote:On October 12 2017 06:04 Z3nith wrote:TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017. Alright, Inno I get, but to say TY and Rogue have dominated is just wrong. Stats has had a better year than either of them. I'm not talking about who is actually the best. I'm talking about who the community has been claiming is the best. There is a difference. Stats has a pretty legitimate claim for being the best player of 2017. His consistency across the whole year has been incredible. Inno probably has the best claim simply because he's won so many more trophies than everyone else, but whereas people loved to talk about TY at the beginning of the year and love to talk about Rogue now, Stats barely gets any attention despite having a better claim than either of them. Hype isn't always tied to skill. Inno has tons of hype and skill, ByuN has more hype than skill, and Stats has more skill than hype. TY is as overhyped as ByuN imo. He's been unimpressive (certainly not bad by any means but nothing exceptional) in the last six months yet people still consider him one of the very best. He's been on a slow upswing though, so maybe he do well at Blizzcon. TY is not as overhyped as ByuN, by any standard. ByuN hasn't looked like a contender for anything since tankivacs and reapers got nerfed. Whereas TY has been consistantly beating the guys at the top for almost all of LoTV. The issue with TY is that he only performs in the big events (worth noting that blizzcon is a big event), he does trash in small/online cups. In the last 6 months of GSL/IEMs (aka the big events), he's beaten Rogue, Patience, aLive, Inno, Stats, soO, and Dark in major matches, unimpressive right?
That's very unimpressive actually. You'd expect much more from someone who's supposedly one of the best. Looking at the last 6 months his offline bo3+ win rate against Protoss and Terran has been around 50%, which is pretty awful. And cherry-picking a few results doesn't help that. ByuN's beaten Rogue, soO, herO, Patience, sOs, TY, Classic offline in the last 6 months.
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On October 13 2017 01:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 23:15 Fango wrote:On October 12 2017 07:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 12 2017 06:52 pvsnp wrote:On October 12 2017 06:04 Z3nith wrote:TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017. Alright, Inno I get, but to say TY and Rogue have dominated is just wrong. Stats has had a better year than either of them. I'm not talking about who is actually the best. I'm talking about who the community has been claiming is the best. There is a difference. Stats has a pretty legitimate claim for being the best player of 2017. His consistency across the whole year has been incredible. Inno probably has the best claim simply because he's won so many more trophies than everyone else, but whereas people loved to talk about TY at the beginning of the year and love to talk about Rogue now, Stats barely gets any attention despite having a better claim than either of them. Hype isn't always tied to skill. Inno has tons of hype and skill, ByuN has more hype than skill, and Stats has more skill than hype. TY is as overhyped as ByuN imo. He's been unimpressive (certainly not bad by any means but nothing exceptional) in the last six months yet people still consider him one of the very best. He's been on a slow upswing though, so maybe he do well at Blizzcon. TY is not as overhyped as ByuN, by any standard. ByuN hasn't looked like a contender for anything since tankivacs and reapers got nerfed. Whereas TY has been consistantly beating the guys at the top for almost all of LoTV. The issue with TY is that he only performs in the big events (worth noting that blizzcon is a big event), he does trash in small/online cups. In the last 6 months of GSL/IEMs (aka the big events), he's beaten Rogue, Patience, aLive, Inno, Stats, soO, and Dark in major matches, unimpressive right? That's very unimpressive actually. You'd expect much more from someone who's supposedly one of the best. Looking at the last 6 months his offline bo3+ win rate against Protoss and Terran has been around 50%, which is pretty awful. And cherry-picking a few results doesn't help that. ByuN's beaten Rogue, soO, herO, Patience, sOs, TY, Classic offline in the last 6 months.
Right...beating almost every other contender for "best player" in the last 6 months in premier events, is unimpressive? What kind of standard is that? And I'm not cherry picking, I'm just exclusively using GSL/IEM results.
In the last 6 months, his winrates in those are 65% TvP, 85% TvZ, 53% TvT, and 65% overall. If you want a comparion, Inno's offline winrates in the same time period are 60% TvP, 75% TvZ, 69% TvT, and 68% overall. This is why people say TY is a strong blizzcon contender, he looks weak in smaller tournaments, but when it comes to the important events he's (usually) in good shape.
And btw ByuN has done good recently, GSL ro8 twice in a row is always impressive. He's just not the bonjwa people make him out to be (this year at least)
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On October 12 2017 07:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 06:52 pvsnp wrote:On October 12 2017 06:04 Z3nith wrote:TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017. Alright, Inno I get, but to say TY and Rogue have dominated is just wrong. Stats has had a better year than either of them. I'm not talking about who is actually the best. I'm talking about who the community has been claiming is the best. There is a difference. Stats has a pretty legitimate claim for being the best player of 2017. His consistency across the whole year has been incredible. Inno probably has the best claim simply because he's won so many more trophies than everyone else, but whereas people loved to talk about TY at the beginning of the year and love to talk about Rogue now, Stats barely gets any attention despite having a better claim than either of them. Hype isn't always tied to skill. Inno has tons of hype and skill, ByuN has more hype than skill, and Stats has more skill than hype. TY is as overhyped as ByuN imo. He's been unimpressive (certainly not bad by any means but nothing exceptional) in the last six months yet people still consider him one of the very best. He's been on a slow upswing though, so maybe he do well at Blizzcon.
Don't you think 6 months is a bit much? Who can really say of themselves they were impressive for the entirety of the last 6 months? herO had 3 good tournaments and many weak performances in-between over 6 months. GuMiho hasn't had a single decent offline run since he won GSL. TY had his usual Ro8s in GSL, a top 4 at IEM and 2nd at GSL vs the World, but also didn't qualify for the Super Tournament, etc.
I do think people tend to overhype players, and TY has been one of them this year certainly(probably in due part because Artosis loves him so much), but I also think that TY's position in the food chain hasn't actually varied much this year. Kind of like how Stats has been the best Protoss in the world practically all year, TY has been the 2nd best Korean Terran practically all year. And being the 2nd best Korean Terran puts you pretty far up the food chain.
Fun fact about Stats also, he's arguably the most consistent player of 2017, but if you just got his winrates since his Code S win, you'd think he's a B-teamer.
16. Kelazhur
15. TRUE
14. SpeCial
13. Nerchio
12. Snute
11. Elazer
10. GuMiho
9. Serral
8. Neeb
7. soO
6. herO
5. TY
4. Stats
3. Dark
2. Rogue
1. INnoVation
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On October 13 2017 03:38 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 07:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 12 2017 06:52 pvsnp wrote:On October 12 2017 06:04 Z3nith wrote:TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017. Alright, Inno I get, but to say TY and Rogue have dominated is just wrong. Stats has had a better year than either of them. I'm not talking about who is actually the best. I'm talking about who the community has been claiming is the best. There is a difference. Stats has a pretty legitimate claim for being the best player of 2017. His consistency across the whole year has been incredible. Inno probably has the best claim simply because he's won so many more trophies than everyone else, but whereas people loved to talk about TY at the beginning of the year and love to talk about Rogue now, Stats barely gets any attention despite having a better claim than either of them. Hype isn't always tied to skill. Inno has tons of hype and skill, ByuN has more hype than skill, and Stats has more skill than hype. TY is as overhyped as ByuN imo. He's been unimpressive (certainly not bad by any means but nothing exceptional) in the last six months yet people still consider him one of the very best. He's been on a slow upswing though, so maybe he do well at Blizzcon. Don't you think 6 months is a bit much? Who can really say of themselves they were impressive for the entirety of the last 6 months? herO had 3 good tournaments and many weak performances in-between over 6 months. GuMiho hasn't had a single decent offline run since he won GSL. TY had his usual Ro8s in GSL, a top 4 at IEM and 2nd at GSL vs the World, but also didn't qualify for the Super Tournament, etc. I do think people tend to overhype players, and TY has been one of them this year certainly(probably in due part because Artosis loves him so much), but I also think that TY's position in the food chain hasn't actually varied much this year. Kind of like how Stats has been the best Protoss in the world practically all year, TY has been the 2nd best Korean Terran practically all year. And being the 2nd best Korean Terran puts you pretty far up the food chain. Fun fact about Stats also, he's arguably the most consistent player of 2017, but if you just got his winrates since his Code S win, you'd think he's a B-teamer. 16. Kelazhur15. TRUE14. SpeCial13. Nerchio12. Snute11. Elazer10. GuMiho9. Serral8. Neeb7. soO6. herO5. TY4. Stats3. Dark2. Rogue1. INnoVation
I'm saying that he hasn't been particularly impressive at any point over the last six months, not that he needs to be impressive over a six month period. Even his good runs are punctuated by losses where he looks hopeless. I don't think he's bad, just not the championship contender that people seem to think he is.
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On October 12 2017 12:23 Tesarul wrote:
I think the goal is just to make a Community Power Rank, it is not a contest to predict BlizzCon results.
... aaaaand I'm retarded. Thanks for the correction. Carry on.
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Kelazhur gonna prove everyone wrong.
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On October 13 2017 04:05 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2017 03:38 Elentos wrote:On October 12 2017 07:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 12 2017 06:52 pvsnp wrote:On October 12 2017 06:04 Z3nith wrote:TY, Rogue, and INnoVation (by far) are the players that have dominated the "best player in the world" conversation for 2017. Alright, Inno I get, but to say TY and Rogue have dominated is just wrong. Stats has had a better year than either of them. I'm not talking about who is actually the best. I'm talking about who the community has been claiming is the best. There is a difference. Stats has a pretty legitimate claim for being the best player of 2017. His consistency across the whole year has been incredible. Inno probably has the best claim simply because he's won so many more trophies than everyone else, but whereas people loved to talk about TY at the beginning of the year and love to talk about Rogue now, Stats barely gets any attention despite having a better claim than either of them. Hype isn't always tied to skill. Inno has tons of hype and skill, ByuN has more hype than skill, and Stats has more skill than hype. TY is as overhyped as ByuN imo. He's been unimpressive (certainly not bad by any means but nothing exceptional) in the last six months yet people still consider him one of the very best. He's been on a slow upswing though, so maybe he do well at Blizzcon. Don't you think 6 months is a bit much? Who can really say of themselves they were impressive for the entirety of the last 6 months? herO had 3 good tournaments and many weak performances in-between over 6 months. GuMiho hasn't had a single decent offline run since he won GSL. TY had his usual Ro8s in GSL, a top 4 at IEM and 2nd at GSL vs the World, but also didn't qualify for the Super Tournament, etc. I do think people tend to overhype players, and TY has been one of them this year certainly(probably in due part because Artosis loves him so much), but I also think that TY's position in the food chain hasn't actually varied much this year. Kind of like how Stats has been the best Protoss in the world practically all year, TY has been the 2nd best Korean Terran practically all year. And being the 2nd best Korean Terran puts you pretty far up the food chain. Fun fact about Stats also, he's arguably the most consistent player of 2017, but if you just got his winrates since his Code S win, you'd think he's a B-teamer. 16. Kelazhur15. TRUE14. SpeCial13. Nerchio12. Snute11. Elazer10. GuMiho9. Serral8. Neeb7. soO6. herO5. TY4. Stats3. Dark2. Rogue1. INnoVation I'm saying that he hasn't been particularly impressive at any point over the last six months, not that he needs to be impressive over a six month period. Even his good runs are punctuated by losses where he looks hopeless. I don't think he's bad, just not the championship contender that people seem to think he is.
The same would be said about Stats and Innovation right before their recent titles though. They both were in the same bag as TY for the most part (massive wins earlier in the year, average to reasonably high finishes since). All of them have had embarassing losses (ST for example), but they also have lot of ro8/4/final appearances. By any standard they're clear championship contenders, along with Dark and Rogue.
Assuming you define a "championship contender" the same way, someone that wouldn't be a shock if they won the event. TY having beaten all of the top (8 minus herO?) in premier tournaments in the last 6 months puts him up there.
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The only real championship contenders are Rogue and herO the way they have been playing lately
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Don't forget about this!
TL's official PR/Road to Blizzcon series is approaching the end as well, let's get a few more votes in till then!
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C'mon let's do the math !
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On October 25 2017 18:52 Mun_Su wrote:
C'mon let's do the math !
Still a few hours left for everyone to post/update their PR.
Results will be posted sometime tomorrow
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Haha that's pretty great, only one difference from the TL Staff poll? Liquid bias!
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Wow that's almost exactly the same as the TL PR. Only Elazer and Serral are switched.
Surprised TY is below soO in this as well.
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Even given how relatively stratified the Blizzcon player pool is, it's pretty funny that the community PR is a single swap away from being identical to the TL PR.
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I am quite surprised how similar this PR turned out to be. Especially since I read so many raging fanboy comments about the rankings of Gumiho, Neeb, and Stats.
So much for TL bias.
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Well that's the thing right, every individual list is different from this one, but throw them all together and it looks like this :D
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Ahahaha after all the complaints about TL's rankings, ours came out to be almost identical
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Finland931 Posts
I just spent over two weeks reading comments about the writers' power rank, and in the end community one is exactly the same.
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It's probably a convergent wisdom of the crowd type of thing. The sum of the TL writers turned out to be a pretty good cross-section of the sum of the community.
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On October 27 2017 03:06 hexhaven wrote:
I just spent over two weeks reading comments about the writers' power rank, and in the end community one is exactly the same.
I suppose people who agreed did not comment as much as people who disagreed. Also, this thread has participation so it gets more action from the average user I think.
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On October 27 2017 03:00 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Well that's the thing right, every individual list is different from this one, but throw them all together and it looks like this :D
This is the best, lmao what a twist.
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On October 27 2017 03:13 Cricketer12 wrote:
The community is garbage
I don't want to hear that from someone who put Number 1 KR GM Serral as sixteenth.
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Austria24417 Posts
This is just the greatest thing I've ever seen.
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On October 27 2017 03:13 Cricketer12 wrote:
The community is garbage
Lmao the Community PR is so similar to the TL PR that it even gets the same shitty comments
And as a part of this community, you just insulted yourself.
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On October 27 2017 03:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote:I don't want to hear that from someone who put Number 1 KR GM Serral as sixteenth.
To be fair...I don't pay attention to the foreigner scene
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On October 27 2017 03:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote:I don't want to hear that from someone who put Number 1 KR GM Serral as sixteenth.
Ladder means everything as shown by Zest this year 
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On October 27 2017 03:42 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 03:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:13 Cricketer12 wrote:
The community is garbage I don't want to hear that from someone who put Number 1 KR GM Serral as sixteenth. Ladder means everything as shown by Zest this year
Didn't he get to number 1 GM briefly in June/July and won Homestory Cup XV right after? Worth it even if it wasn't the hardest tourney.
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On October 27 2017 03:31 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 03:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:13 Cricketer12 wrote:
The community is garbage I don't want to hear that from someone who put Number 1 KR GM Serral as sixteenth. To be fair...I don't pay attention to the foreigner scene
When was the last point you did pay attention, because things like Kelazhur > Serral for example looks pretty fucking silly.
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On October 27 2017 03:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 03:42 Durnuu wrote:On October 27 2017 03:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:13 Cricketer12 wrote:
The community is garbage I don't want to hear that from someone who put Number 1 KR GM Serral as sixteenth. Ladder means everything as shown by Zest this year Didn't he get to number 1 GM briefly in June/July and won Homestory Cup XV right after? Worth it even if it wasn't the hardest tourney.
He's been there for a very long time, and failed every offline tournament aside from Homestory Cup. More often than not, rank 1 on KR (or just good rank on KR ladder in general, like top 30 or whatever) means nothing.
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On October 27 2017 03:23 pvsnp wrote:Lmao the Community PR is so similar to the TL PR that it even gets the same shitty comments And as a part of this community, you just insulted yourself.
so true.
good job community, you / we really showed those bias TL writers
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France12873 Posts
Expected but nice results, it's close between Stats and Rogue so both sides are right: Stats can arguably be #2, but since it's so close Rogue might as well be.
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On October 27 2017 04:01 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 03:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:42 Durnuu wrote:On October 27 2017 03:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:13 Cricketer12 wrote:
The community is garbage I don't want to hear that from someone who put Number 1 KR GM Serral as sixteenth. Ladder means everything as shown by Zest this year Didn't he get to number 1 GM briefly in June/July and won Homestory Cup XV right after? Worth it even if it wasn't the hardest tourney. He's been there for a very long time, and failed every offline tournament aside from Homestory Cup. More often than not, rank 1 on KR (or just good rank on KR ladder in general, like top 30 or whatever) means nothing.
Fair enough. I'd still rank Zest higher than Kelazhur in a power rank though.
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On October 27 2017 04:01 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 03:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:42 Durnuu wrote:On October 27 2017 03:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:13 Cricketer12 wrote:
The community is garbage I don't want to hear that from someone who put Number 1 KR GM Serral as sixteenth. Ladder means everything as shown by Zest this year Didn't he get to number 1 GM briefly in June/July and won Homestory Cup XV right after? Worth it even if it wasn't the hardest tourney. He's been there for a very long time, and failed every offline tournament aside from Homestory Cup. More often than not, rank 1 on KR (or just good rank on KR ladder in general, like top 30 or whatever) means nothing.
"Nothing" is a bit too extreme, it means you are good enough to get there (is every pro good enough to get there?)
But yeah it doesn't mean that you are winning the next tournaments, but it's probably an indicator about general "skill"
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It was good The_Red_Viper also this is a punch in the face of all those who shitted about TL ranking. Event The top 5 is identical.
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On October 27 2017 04:01 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 03:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:42 Durnuu wrote:On October 27 2017 03:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:13 Cricketer12 wrote:
The community is garbage I don't want to hear that from someone who put Number 1 KR GM Serral as sixteenth. Ladder means everything as shown by Zest this year Didn't he get to number 1 GM briefly in June/July and won Homestory Cup XV right after? Worth it even if it wasn't the hardest tourney. He's been there for a very long time, and failed every offline tournament aside from Homestory Cup. More often than not, rank 1 on KR (or just good rank on KR ladder in general, like top 30 or whatever) means nothing.
It's actually hard to tell, because he hasn't had many offline tournaments to actually play in. He started seriously dominating the ladder after the GSL S3 qualifiers and most of SSL S2 was over. Since then the only tournaments he's had are HSC, ST2 and a couple SSL S2 matches I think. He beat ByuN and Gumi in one and lost to herO and Rogue in the others.
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your Country52797 Posts
On October 27 2017 04:58 Mun_Su wrote:
It was good The_Red_Viper also this is a punch in the face of all those who shitted about TL ranking. Event The top 5 is identical.
That's because it's an average, like the TL Writer's ranking. All the writers who made the power ranking had the same top 5 players, but most of them didn't agree on the order.
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Canada8989 Posts
Man this is amazing gotta give some love to the TL writer they made a great power rank
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United States97276 Posts
buncha rogue fanboys on this site
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On October 27 2017 06:47 Nakajin wrote:
Man this is amazing gotta give some love to the TL writer they made a great power rank
Idk. I'd definitely strive to be better than the community, not to be the same.
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Who even cares about 9-16 anyway.
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Canada8989 Posts
On October 27 2017 06:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 06:47 Nakajin wrote:
Man this is amazing gotta give some love to the TL writer they made a great power rank Idk. I'd definitely strive to be better than the community, not to be the same.
Better then the sc2 community?
That's impossible, jusk ask David Kim
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On October 27 2017 06:30 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 04:58 Mun_Su wrote:
It was good The_Red_Viper also this is a punch in the face of all those who shitted about TL ranking. Event The top 5 is identical. That's because it's an average, like the TL Writer's ranking. All the writers who made the power ranking had the same top 5 players, but most of them didn't agree on the order.
Soularion's pr doesnt count 
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On October 27 2017 04:01 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 03:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:42 Durnuu wrote:On October 27 2017 03:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:13 Cricketer12 wrote:
The community is garbage I don't want to hear that from someone who put Number 1 KR GM Serral as sixteenth. Ladder means everything as shown by Zest this year Didn't he get to number 1 GM briefly in June/July and won Homestory Cup XV right after? Worth it even if it wasn't the hardest tourney. He's been there for a very long time, and failed every offline tournament aside from Homestory Cup. More often than not, rank 1 on KR (or just good rank on KR ladder in general, like top 30 or whatever) means nothing.
Zest has won as many offline titles as Stats this year. Show some respect!
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On October 27 2017 07:52 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 04:01 Durnuu wrote:On October 27 2017 03:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:42 Durnuu wrote:On October 27 2017 03:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:13 Cricketer12 wrote:
The community is garbage I don't want to hear that from someone who put Number 1 KR GM Serral as sixteenth. Ladder means everything as shown by Zest this year Didn't he get to number 1 GM briefly in June/July and won Homestory Cup XV right after? Worth it even if it wasn't the hardest tourney. He's been there for a very long time, and failed every offline tournament aside from Homestory Cup. More often than not, rank 1 on KR (or just good rank on KR ladder in general, like top 30 or whatever) means nothing. Zest has won as many offline titles as Stats this year. Show some respect!
Huh. I'd completely forgotten that the Game Land Invitational existed despite having watched most of the event.
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Canada2764 Posts
Everyone is TL bias on this fine day
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On October 27 2017 07:52 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 04:01 Durnuu wrote:On October 27 2017 03:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:42 Durnuu wrote:On October 27 2017 03:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:13 Cricketer12 wrote:
The community is garbage I don't want to hear that from someone who put Number 1 KR GM Serral as sixteenth. Ladder means everything as shown by Zest this year Didn't he get to number 1 GM briefly in June/July and won Homestory Cup XV right after? Worth it even if it wasn't the hardest tourney. He's been there for a very long time, and failed every offline tournament aside from Homestory Cup. More often than not, rank 1 on KR (or just good rank on KR ladder in general, like top 30 or whatever) means nothing. Zest has won as many offline titles as Stats this year. Show some respect!
zest won majors and stats won starleagues, but you know, potato potato
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I'm not sure why there is the idea that the community rank being the same as the TL rank is an indication that everyone is shitty, garbage, or whatever other description you want to use as an insult. People don't comment as an average.
Why is arguing over rankings supposed to be a negative thing anyway?
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On October 27 2017 11:17 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 07:52 Phredxor wrote:On October 27 2017 04:01 Durnuu wrote:On October 27 2017 03:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:42 Durnuu wrote:On October 27 2017 03:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:13 Cricketer12 wrote:
The community is garbage I don't want to hear that from someone who put Number 1 KR GM Serral as sixteenth. Ladder means everything as shown by Zest this year Didn't he get to number 1 GM briefly in June/July and won Homestory Cup XV right after? Worth it even if it wasn't the hardest tourney. He's been there for a very long time, and failed every offline tournament aside from Homestory Cup. More often than not, rank 1 on KR (or just good rank on KR ladder in general, like top 30 or whatever) means nothing. Zest has won as many offline titles as Stats this year. Show some respect! zest won majors and stats won starleagues, but you know, potato potato
Winning starleagues ain't shit. Just ask Taeja.
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On October 27 2017 21:12 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 11:17 Cricketer12 wrote:On October 27 2017 07:52 Phredxor wrote:On October 27 2017 04:01 Durnuu wrote:On October 27 2017 03:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:42 Durnuu wrote:On October 27 2017 03:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 27 2017 03:13 Cricketer12 wrote:
The community is garbage I don't want to hear that from someone who put Number 1 KR GM Serral as sixteenth. Ladder means everything as shown by Zest this year Didn't he get to number 1 GM briefly in June/July and won Homestory Cup XV right after? Worth it even if it wasn't the hardest tourney. He's been there for a very long time, and failed every offline tournament aside from Homestory Cup. More often than not, rank 1 on KR (or just good rank on KR ladder in general, like top 30 or whatever) means nothing. Zest has won as many offline titles as Stats this year. Show some respect! zest won majors and stats won starleagues, but you know, potato potato Winning starleagues ain't shit. Just ask Taeja.
But he wouldn't know what it's like.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/a/a9/Kelazhur_WCS_DreamHack_Austin_2017.jpeg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/thumb/f/f9/TRUE_2016-05-27_GSL_Code_A_winner_interview.jpg/600px-TRUE_2016-05-27_GSL_Code_A_winner_interview.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/thumb/8/84/MajOr_WCS_S1_2015.jpg/600px-MajOr_WCS_S1_2015.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/thumb/8/86/Nerchio.jpg/600px-Nerchio.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/thumb/9/95/Snute_20160316_yong_woo_kim_kenzi.jpg/600px-Snute_20160316_yong_woo_kim_kenzi.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/thumb/8/83/Elazer_WCS_S2_2015.jpg/600px-Elazer_WCS_S2_2015.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/thumb/d/d4/Serral_WCS_2015_Season1.jpg/600px-Serral_WCS_2015_Season1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/e/e5/Gumiho_IEM_katowice2017.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/thumb/8/8a/Neeb_2016DreamHackTours.jpg/600px-Neeb_2016DreamHackTours.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/thumb/8/80/TY_IEM_Shenzhen_2015.jpg/600px-TY_IEM_Shenzhen_2015.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/thumb/7/7d/SoO_2016VSLTeamLeague.jpg/600px-SoO_2016VSLTeamLeague.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/thumb/b/ba/HerO_IEM_Shanghai_2017.jpg/600px-HerO_IEM_Shanghai_2017.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/thumb/0/06/Dark_IEM_WC_2015.jpg/600px-Dark_IEM_WC_2015.jpg)
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