EPTAdept Discussion - Page 5
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Ryu3600
Canada469 Posts
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
There already is a dedicated balance whine thread. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2655 Posts
On April 11 2017 05:11 nichan wrote: No problems with liberator specially with range and widow mines I see, this units alone took out most of the other builds Protoss had like templar, archon with zelot charge wich in my opinion was the best interaction between Protoss and Terrans. What? They nerfed both of those what are you talking about. On April 11 2017 07:19 InfCereal wrote: No, we need to drastically change units in unintuitive and confusing ways. Jesus, it's like you don't know how to make a community suggestion. The problem with that one is that once you reach that point WG would make the protoss almighty. Imagine a WP droping 4 stalkers and warping other 16 that can actually deal with an equal ammount of MMM. Protoss GW can't scale as long as WG stays as is. | ||
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Mistakes
United States1102 Posts
Kinda like using the power of the shields to create the shade. | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2142 Posts
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nichan
United States158 Posts
On April 11 2017 10:51 Lexender wrote: What? They nerfed both of those what are you talking about. The problem with that one is that once you reach that point WG would make the protoss almighty. Imagine a WP droping 4 stalkers and warping other 16 that can actually deal with an equal ammount of MMM. Protoss GW can't scale as long as WG stays as is. Here we go it has nothing to do with the nerf, it has to do with it killing a composition, Just like tempest stoped zerg from building anything with broodlords, in each expansion they added units to adjust balance or stop an abusive comp instead of adding units to make interaction between races more fun to play and watch. | ||
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corn322
United States16 Posts
On April 11 2017 01:40 Ulargg wrote: Allow units to attack the shade. I've had this thought for a while. What if the shade was targetable but not auto-attacked like neutral units. Damaging the shade forces the Adept to teleport. Would being able to intercept Adepts by forcing them to TP to the shade be fun? Would Protoss players still send shades? | ||
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franzji
United States583 Posts
I would love to see stalkers get some love so that we can make stalker-zealot vs Terran. Blizzard should have just buffed them, and either removed blink or nerfed it in LOTV more instead of adding the adept to fill the role of being the only decent gateway unit. and also, stalkers just melt to every Terran unit... cyclones, tank pushes, liberators with mines, marauders... why would anyone not open phoenix and adepts in this meta? it's just the easiest way to defend against the insane speed and strength of medivac drops, liberators, mines... | ||
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SlammerSC2
77 Posts
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
On April 09 2017 23:29 StraKo wrote: There is no counterplay, interaction or decision making involved for the opponent. The protoss player can always decide if he wants to shade or not. If he wants to let the shade finish or not, etc... This creates a random factor for the opponent, because he's unable to tell if shades will go through or not, which means that you basically need atleast double the amount of defending units, because you're forced to defend more than one location at once for just one group of harassing adepts. this is not the case in my opinion. in the early game the adepts are there to deal lasting damage, and they need to shade to get that potential. there's no choice on that exact matter. there's an existing cooldown on it and it can be counted or felt out. it's simply 4 seconds of downtime for the cooldown alone. as everyone knows, the adept can still be attacked during this. what some people prefer is have enough damage to threaten or kill the adepts once they're in position and waiting for cd, if you're able to do this, you don't need to defend two or more locations. I'm not a fan of drip-feeding a solution to the unit, but it is not like there is no counterplay. it's an effective unit that takes a lot out of the defender, much like the protoss oracle does in the lower leagues I imagine. sometimes you have more than one group of harassing adepts, it can be more effective than one, it depends on the defender and how they reacted. it's all rudimentary but I agree the unit needs more polish. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3463 Posts
How about we give a Thor buff? Thors are pretty good vs Adepts, Thors are really good vs Phoenix. That way maybe we can open up more of the matchup, since there are now Thors on the field to deal with Phoenix/Adept and that means Protoss can do something to beat the Thor. Otherwise we just keep staying in this limbo of Terran wants to drop and Protoss wants to counter drop, whichever is stronger. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 11 2017 16:41 SlammerSC2 wrote: SC2 would be so much better without Adepts, Liberators, Swarmhosts, Disruptors and Ravagers. Just my opinion. You forgot the Widow Mine, Mothership Core, Warpgate on T1 and the Tempest. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 11 2017 17:33 ejozl wrote: Lets say Phoenix/Adepts > Terran, I'd rather they focus on something else rather than nerfing the Adept or Phoenix, which will just switch the power of the matchup back into Bio + Supplements > Protoss. How about we give a Thor buff? Thors are pretty good vs Adepts, Thors are really good vs Phoenix. That way maybe we can open up more of the matchup, since there are now Thors on the field to deal with Phoenix/Adept and that means Protoss can do something to beat the Thor. Otherwise we just keep staying in this limbo of Terran wants to drop and Protoss wants to counter drop, whichever is stronger. The moment of strength of multiple Thors comes in after PA is already starting to struggle. | ||
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KOtical
Germany451 Posts
On April 10 2017 08:16 NutriaKaiN wrote: this is so stupid. then allow only to be 1 medivac at once on the map, only then your comparison with harras will be true. you cant build 3 warpprisms and harass 3 locations, but you can do it with overlord drops and medivacs. thats the same with shades. there is no point in this thread sorry. sure u can harras with 3 warpprisms... why you should not be able to do that? | ||
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blunderfulguy
United States1415 Posts
Initially I thought this was the dumbest idea I've ever had but after a second thought it could totally... possibly... maybe sometimes make things a little worse for Protoss players and also, like, might be cool, right? Edit: On a less wild note, perhaps the weapon damage point and attack animation could be slightly increased to nerf their fighting capabilities and their chasing capabilities while Transfer is on cooldown, but it's hard to say how they would fair against other early game units/strategies without testing it out. Removing Shade is what makes the Adept the Adept so I don't think talking about taking that away is the right way to go. | ||
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sh1RoKen
Russian Federation93 Posts
On April 11 2017 21:20 KOtical wrote: sure u can harras with 3 warpprisms... why you should not be able to do that? 1. Because if you spend 600 minerals on warpprisms you will lose horribly in a direct fight. They have 0% fight scaling. Medevacs have 100% scaling (if amount of battle units => the amount of medevacs which is true in 99% of all battles). 2. Because the only power of warprism is in the warp from warpgates. You basically trade all units you warp -4 units you are able to pick up for anything you can kill with this amount of units which might result in extremely negative value if you warp 8 zealots and lose them all for exchange of 3 scvs. Even if you have 3 warprisms (which is bad because of the previous point) you can still warp only 8 units if you have 8 warpgates. However you can always not drop from medevacs if the protoss is ready and only drop when you are able to receive a positive value with your drop (because you can kill 3 probes, pickup all units and lose nothing). So you basically never have negative value with terran drops unless you are playing against phoenixes who are able to intercept your medevacs, but it was never an imbalanced problem in TvZ agains mutas. 3. So if you just use warprisms as a shuttles without concentrating all your harass potential in 1 spot, you face the reality where you can't do any damage at all with gateway units in amount of 4 compared to what you can kill with 2 marauders + 4 marines. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
David kim is gone and the game is in our hands now lets set a precedent that we are willing to exhaust our options before we make big changes to the game. the adept already feels iconic, like the zealot, marine/tank and hydralisk/ling. shading in has a lot of unique aspects to it like baiting stims/wasting banes by cancelling most shades (good dynamic), dragging mines (good dynamic but should not be the only dynamic, i was not pleased watching aLive lose 40 supply of units to friendly splash in 1.5 seconds gametime, liberators, medivacs, etc: newkirk city vs herO), and can give toss some map presence while speedlings are out (good dynamic because if zerg commits to units, the adepts do not achieve this) protoss has been competitive for what... a few months now? lets not get ahead of ourselves. | ||
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reneg
United States859 Posts
On April 11 2017 22:24 c0sm0naut wrote: we should allow the current meta to develop and change things if they are a problem for a while. i think we have a lot more to gain by just letting the game sit and trying to adapt to it than making some weird convoluted interaction with this unit that limits its usefulness. lets spend more than just a few months trying to figure out this unit. David kim is gone and the game is in our hands now lets set a precedent that we are willing to exhaust our options before we make big changes to the game. the adept already feels iconic, like the zealot, marine/tank and hydralisk/ling. shading in has a lot of unique aspects to it like baiting stims/wasting banes by cancelling most shades (good dynamic), dragging mines (good dynamic but should not be the only dynamic, i was not pleased watching aLive lose 40 supply of units to friendly splash in 1.5 seconds gametime, liberators, medivacs, etc: newkirk city vs herO), and can give toss some map presence while speedlings are out (good dynamic because if zerg commits to units, the adepts do not achieve this) protoss has been competitive for what... a few months now? lets not get ahead of ourselves. I think that's one of the key issues that all of these people who are pushing for "smaller, more frequent updates" are missing. I don't think it's in everyone's best interest for this game to become like LoL or DOTA, where there's some flavor of the month that everyone knows will be nerfed in a few weeks. I'd rather a more stable meta, rather than watching strategies be built up around timings and pushes, that will just be ruined in two weeks time. | ||
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Moonsalt
267 Posts
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