ByuN wins WCS Finals over Dark 4-2 - Page 6

On November 06 2016 16:30 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote:
This is my first time ever posting on here, but I felt compelled to after reading a lot of these post..

The Sc2 community I feel is silly sometimes. The player who CLEARLY has the best SKILLS won. Not the best build order, or some op comp like Broodlord infestor, or swarm host nonsense. And people have the BALLS to try to blame Byuns win on a build order? He's as Artosis has described him,THE BEST REAPER PLAYER IN THE WORLD. And this is SKILL BASED, MICRO BASED, HOW THE HELL IS IT A BUILD ORDER THING? I really feel like you take away adepts and a lot of Protoss just straight up don't know how to play. Case in point is how they favored adept builds over the more micro intensive stalker disruptor play.

No banshees, hellions, cyclones, and after the queen buff, liberators in the early game really. So what's left? The Byun build, ( which he also executes better than anyone else, just look at the Violet games, or Byuns win over Dark in the GSL where he snipes all the banes... Was that op too?) or three rax reapers. Dark was one of the first zergs I saw who rushed a roach warren and then got an early ravager to push reaper builds back. SLOW THE GODDAMN GAME DOWN!!!!! Stop trying to rush to Ultras every damn game ASAP. And I mostly played Zerg in my time.


Byun did that Medi-vac build iN EVERY game practically in SSL, Dark SHOULD HAVE HAD AN ANSWER FOR IT GOOD LORD, how many games were available to study? 100? Easy. Maybe 300 lol...

If the build is so strong why only TWO terrans at blizzcon and SEVEN GODDAMN ZERGS? Did TY do it even ONCE at Blizzconn? Did Maru do it to Nerchio at Kespa cup?

Take Byuns Dear GSL semis, where Byun goes cloak Banshees. That wasn't a " build" , you can't just GO banshees and expect it to work, that was a strat, based on the meta of banshees being useless vs stargate openings, and toss going warp prism first, therefore being unprepared vs a cloak tech cause they have no detection.That's a GodDamn STRATEGY!!!!

The community loves builds, anyone can replicate some build. But what Byun does, very few can, and I feel like people don't like it when the game is more micro oriented, you can't just study and replicate the play. Seriously' mass banes still kill Terrans easily, why didn't we see that?

Or it's like when Showtime surprises Byun by actually making a support unit and using it correctly.
Byun might have played 100 straight games vs build order toss players who NEVER EVEN CONSIDERED MAKING A COLOSSI, of course he's gonna be taken aback.

The Terran scene in Korea was SO STRONG THIS YEAR, yet only 2 at Blizzcon, still all this whining, Goddamn SHM

On November 06 2016 12:19 Liquid`Snute wrote:

yeah ... reaper grenades rob players and viewers of games such as game 5 (sejong). in my opinion, early game reaper vs queen is boring as fuck to watch and i see no reason why one wouldn't allow further emphasis on the fantastic midgame ... same with HOTS ZvT, matches like INnoVation vs Life that just ended with hellbat timing shreking a 2base muta build after hellbats were brought in to 'spice things up'.

i just don't understand why we're getting these early games when midgame is so great to play and watch. quick games can be 'fun' and 'belong in a series' but it could've been so much more. imo we're not in a hurry to finish up a series quickly, so i wish games like Frozen temple and Frost could've been replaced with more than what they are today. hoping someone understands what i mean because it's a bit tricky - reapers simply scale too well and don't become irrelevant quickly enough, or they're just flat out too slippery and strong, even dark setting up surrounds didn't do anything because reaper explosion just destroys lings ...

i'm so happy about aegwynns comment here because i feel rather strongly about the same topic both as a viewer and player

On November 06 2016 19:29 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote:
I use caps as a point of emphasis, maybe I should try italics?

Look, it's not just Byun, and it's not just posters. Showtime vs Dear case in point to the Protoss thing.
The casters irritated me. They kinda assumed Dear SHOULD win because well, he's Korean right?
(Three straight gsl top fours nothing to sneeze at mind you...)
But I specifically remember back at the start of Legacy a series between Showtime and Parting. Stalker Disruptor mayhem. The interesting thing was that Showtime, kinda invented the PvP late game in that series by transitioning into Tempest. I remember Parting being stunned. He HAD to follow suit, and even though he eventually won the series, all he did in his interview was gush about Showtimes play, and how he definitely was as good as Korean pros, and HOW HE LEARNED A LOT FROM THAT SERIES.

Now, what happened was, Korean toss figured that you could simply overwhelm early Stalker counts with adept glave builds. So micro took a back seat to a build. Showtime said he hated that meta.


So when I saw Dear trying to go toe to toe with him with Stalker Disruptor, I KNEW he would get wrecked, as all the Korean toss players had been practicing for months was how to kill you with adepts.

That's was what I meant, not so much whining about Toss, but frustrated with their simple ass play.

Look at the Zergs, it's all roach ravager or ultras. I saw Dark popularize bane drops, bane runbys, he was the first Zerg I saw load up a ovie with queens and follow tank-a-vacs around. The first Zerg that made corruptors to kill Medi-vacs. Always gets ovie speed, the guy just played waaay smarter than all the other zergs, while being the absolute best at macro.

I'd watch proleague and see Wolf sneer at " online tournaments". And say stuff like, " this isn't olimoleague" .. But Byun playing in event, after event, grinding game after game, ladder match after ladder match. Not just practicing the same builds vs the same competition over and over until it's just muscle memory. What happens when a superior micro player like Byun or Maru, or MKP in his prime comes along and just throws your build against a wall? Byun made Dark PROVE TO HIM that he could overcome his micro, he couldn't. Not Byuns fault, nor his fault he practiced so incredibly hard all year long, taking on all comers.

I mean, you lose 2-3 reapers and that build is dead in the water. Byun is the ONLYterran I saw all year that not only keeps all the reapers alive, but he keeps them alive long after ling speed finishes, until medi-vacs and a tank comes out, and actually pushes with them. If you think that is a " Build" , try it against a competent player and see how hard you get wrecked lol. Do it 100 times in row, I think you are lucky if you get 50% win ratio

On November 06 2016 19:11 LuckyGnomTV wrote:
I'm happy for ByuN. I remember his great super long only ghost games against protosses and I liked it!

But at the same time it is sad to see what happened to sc2. Just think about it, finals of the most important tournament of the year is ByuN vs Dark.. wtf is this? Code a qualifiers? What did you do with the game so people like Jaedong, Flash, Mvp retired and people like Zest, sOs, Maru have not enought interest in a game to work their ass off whole year?