|
|
|
EU qualifier is 3 days after copa intercontinental, or basically 2.5 days because of time difference )=
|
On September 07 2016 08:39 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 08:23 Charoisaur wrote:On September 07 2016 06:47 Elentos wrote:On September 07 2016 06:44 Incognoto wrote:On September 07 2016 06:29 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 07 2016 06:07 Biscuittzz wrote:On September 07 2016 01:18 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 06 2016 22:34 Eiltonn wrote:
Btw what except for Neebs recent run in the Olimo Cup makes people think that foreigners will be able to beat Koreans? I do not mean any offense, but when there is 8 people going through KR only qualifiers + herO, Maru, Zest and Stats the only chance i see for the foreigners is Zest going for a cannon rush lol So Zest will cannon rush....and lose badly right? Besides, once you get past the top Koreans, (and there's no guarantee that only the very top Koreans will make it through the qualifiers) you get to Reality, alive, ryung, and gumiho. And all of those players have been beaten by a number of foreigners. So if (and this is a big if) the best of the best foreigners make it through, they may not be able to beat the top Koreans, but they'll likely put up some good games versus the weaker Koreans who qualify. On September 07 2016 01:15 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 07 2016 01:12 paralleluniverse wrote:
Is this the first global event of the year?
Having so few global events is one of the major letdowns of this year's WCS system. Yeah i think it is. Personally i only have two problems with the system: We have less korean tournaments and we have less "global" events because any global from last year got region locked this year. => It's not nearly as interesting to follow sc2 this year unless all you care for is foreigners winning tournaments But if you even care a bit for foreigners winning, then SC2 has been very interesting to follow. (Especially how Polt and Hydra were expected to dominate and then did the exact opposite.) Ehhhh out of the 3 WCS Championships this year, Polt won 1 and was a finalist in the other. Hardly doing the exact opposite haha. So 2/3 of the WCS this year have been won by Koreans, but that's the opposite right? ;/ As I said, he's done well. People were not speaking about True when they said Hydra and Polt would dominate. Ok, let's look for a moment at Hydra. One win, two ro8, two ro16, a ro4, and a ro32. This is hardly domination by Hydra. He's done significantly worse than people though he would. I would say that this is close to the opposite of dominant. Now Polt won one tournament and placed 2nd in another. However, he also has a ro4 finish, a ro16 finish, and a ro32 finish. I will admit that the "complete opposite" was not the right phrase for Polt. (For hydra, yes it was). However, people were expecting that he'd get ro4 or higher every tournament. And though he did win a tournament (Early into LotV) and he just placed 2nd (though if drogo hadn't choked he would have gotten ro8). But the fact that he got out in the ro16 and the ro32 is huge. To have that many foreign players advance over Polt was a big upset. In WCS, Koreans have won 3/8 of all foreign tournaments. Perhaps not individually, but I would say that 37.5% of all tournaments is the opposite of Korean domination in WCS. it's bigger when you take into account that there are only three Koreans and the rest are foreigners There's 4 and all of them might make Blizzcon (though viOlet probably won't). E: Actually there's 5. Still, 5 of like 100 are Korean and 3-4 make it. Not domination but it's a pretty silly percentage. Polt, Hydra, Violet, TRUE and who else??? Don't say MaSa. MaSa
If you go by country they are born in then I guess yes but I mean he's Canadian for ages.
people are generally considering him as a foreigner.
he also hasn't been in the korean practice environment which is the unfair advantage foreigners are speaking from.
|
On September 07 2016 07:10 Biscuittzz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 06:29 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 07 2016 06:07 Biscuittzz wrote:On September 07 2016 01:18 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 06 2016 22:34 Eiltonn wrote:
Btw what except for Neebs recent run in the Olimo Cup makes people think that foreigners will be able to beat Koreans? I do not mean any offense, but when there is 8 people going through KR only qualifiers + herO, Maru, Zest and Stats the only chance i see for the foreigners is Zest going for a cannon rush lol So Zest will cannon rush....and lose badly right? Besides, once you get past the top Koreans, (and there's no guarantee that only the very top Koreans will make it through the qualifiers) you get to Reality, alive, ryung, and gumiho. And all of those players have been beaten by a number of foreigners. So if (and this is a big if) the best of the best foreigners make it through, they may not be able to beat the top Koreans, but they'll likely put up some good games versus the weaker Koreans who qualify. On September 07 2016 01:15 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 07 2016 01:12 paralleluniverse wrote:
Is this the first global event of the year?
Having so few global events is one of the major letdowns of this year's WCS system. Yeah i think it is. Personally i only have two problems with the system: We have less korean tournaments and we have less "global" events because any global from last year got region locked this year. => It's not nearly as interesting to follow sc2 this year unless all you care for is foreigners winning tournaments But if you even care a bit for foreigners winning, then SC2 has been very interesting to follow. (Especially how Polt and Hydra were expected to dominate and then did the exact opposite.) Ehhhh out of the 3 WCS Championships this year, Polt won 1 and was a finalist in the other. Hardly doing the exact opposite haha. So 2/3 of the WCS this year have been won by Koreans, but that's the opposite right? ;/ As I said, he's done well. People were not speaking about True when they said Hydra and Polt would dominate. Ok, let's look for a moment at Hydra. One win, two ro8, two ro16, a ro4, and a ro32. This is hardly domination by Hydra. He's done significantly worse than people though he would. I would say that this is close to the opposite of dominant. Now Polt won one tournament and placed 2nd in another. However, he also has a ro4 finish, a ro16 finish, and a ro32 finish. I will admit that the "complete opposite" was not the right phrase for Polt. (For hydra, yes it was). However, people were expecting that he'd get ro4 or higher every tournament. And though he did win a tournament (Early into LotV) and he just placed 2nd (though if drogo hadn't choked he would have gotten ro8). But the fact that he got out in the ro16 and the ro32 is huge. To have that many foreign players advance over Polt was a big upset. In WCS, Koreans have won 3/8 of all foreign tournaments. Perhaps not individually, but I would say that 37.5% of all tournaments is the opposite of Korean domination in WCS. All depends on bracket though. Polt was knocked out by Showtime and Nerchio who are in the top 3 foreigners at the moment. He was knocked out by Firecake which I will grant was a shock. Polt has only gone to 5 tournaments this year, skipping Leipzig, WCS Shanghai and IEM Shanghai. In the ones he attended, He's gotten a 1st, 2nd, 3/4, and a Ro16 loss to Firecake. Also a Ro32 loss to showtime but that's bracket luck. Either way that's the best set of results from anyone in WCS this year so while perhaps not dominating he's on top IMO. I'll agree with TRUE and Hydra though. TRUE came out of nowhere and Hydra has completely dropped off.
Agreed, Polt is one of the best players and has some of the best results. I would only say that he is one of the best players in WCS. From before, people that he would be the best player.
But I don't take into account bracket luck as much because of people like Nerchio and Showtime and Neeb running into each other and taking each other out. I would consider Nerchio, Neeb, Showtime, and Polt around similar levels in WCS currently. Polt's probably a bit better, but they've all beaten each other in one tournament of qualifier or another.
Also his second place was also due to a bit of luck of having drogo collapse.
And getting into Blizzcon does not equal domination. It means you're very good, but it does not mean you dominated (not necessarily anyways).
|
i wish they had a giant cup with a base that had the names of its winners engraved; the base of the cup grows in size as more winners are added. i wish they had a cup like that.. it would be so cool. 
|
On September 07 2016 10:02 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 07:10 Biscuittzz wrote:On September 07 2016 06:29 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 07 2016 06:07 Biscuittzz wrote:On September 07 2016 01:18 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 06 2016 22:34 Eiltonn wrote:
Btw what except for Neebs recent run in the Olimo Cup makes people think that foreigners will be able to beat Koreans? I do not mean any offense, but when there is 8 people going through KR only qualifiers + herO, Maru, Zest and Stats the only chance i see for the foreigners is Zest going for a cannon rush lol So Zest will cannon rush....and lose badly right? Besides, once you get past the top Koreans, (and there's no guarantee that only the very top Koreans will make it through the qualifiers) you get to Reality, alive, ryung, and gumiho. And all of those players have been beaten by a number of foreigners. So if (and this is a big if) the best of the best foreigners make it through, they may not be able to beat the top Koreans, but they'll likely put up some good games versus the weaker Koreans who qualify. On September 07 2016 01:15 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 07 2016 01:12 paralleluniverse wrote:
Is this the first global event of the year?
Having so few global events is one of the major letdowns of this year's WCS system. Yeah i think it is. Personally i only have two problems with the system: We have less korean tournaments and we have less "global" events because any global from last year got region locked this year. => It's not nearly as interesting to follow sc2 this year unless all you care for is foreigners winning tournaments But if you even care a bit for foreigners winning, then SC2 has been very interesting to follow. (Especially how Polt and Hydra were expected to dominate and then did the exact opposite.) Ehhhh out of the 3 WCS Championships this year, Polt won 1 and was a finalist in the other. Hardly doing the exact opposite haha. So 2/3 of the WCS this year have been won by Koreans, but that's the opposite right? ;/ As I said, he's done well. People were not speaking about True when they said Hydra and Polt would dominate. Ok, let's look for a moment at Hydra. One win, two ro8, two ro16, a ro4, and a ro32. This is hardly domination by Hydra. He's done significantly worse than people though he would. I would say that this is close to the opposite of dominant. Now Polt won one tournament and placed 2nd in another. However, he also has a ro4 finish, a ro16 finish, and a ro32 finish. I will admit that the "complete opposite" was not the right phrase for Polt. (For hydra, yes it was). However, people were expecting that he'd get ro4 or higher every tournament. And though he did win a tournament (Early into LotV) and he just placed 2nd (though if drogo hadn't choked he would have gotten ro8). But the fact that he got out in the ro16 and the ro32 is huge. To have that many foreign players advance over Polt was a big upset. In WCS, Koreans have won 3/8 of all foreign tournaments. Perhaps not individually, but I would say that 37.5% of all tournaments is the opposite of Korean domination in WCS. All depends on bracket though. Polt was knocked out by Showtime and Nerchio who are in the top 3 foreigners at the moment. He was knocked out by Firecake which I will grant was a shock. Polt has only gone to 5 tournaments this year, skipping Leipzig, WCS Shanghai and IEM Shanghai. In the ones he attended, He's gotten a 1st, 2nd, 3/4, and a Ro16 loss to Firecake. Also a Ro32 loss to showtime but that's bracket luck. Either way that's the best set of results from anyone in WCS this year so while perhaps not dominating he's on top IMO. I'll agree with TRUE and Hydra though. TRUE came out of nowhere and Hydra has completely dropped off. Agreed, Polt is one of the best players and has some of the best results. I would only say that he is one of the best players in WCS. From before, people that he would be the best player. But I don't take into account bracket luck as much because of people like Nerchio and Showtime and Neeb running into each other and taking each other out. I would consider Nerchio, Neeb, Showtime, and Polt around similar levels in WCS currently. Polt's probably a bit better, but they've all beaten each other in one tournament of qualifier or another. Also his second place was also due to a bit of luck of having drogo collapse. And getting into Blizzcon does not equal domination. It means you're very good, but it does not mean you dominated (not necessarily anyways).
I think bracket luck is important if we're discussing tournament results. For example Snute also crashed out before in the Ro32 to Guru if I remember correctly. Both Polt and Snute thus have lost in the Ro32 to Showtime and Guru respectively. While no losses are good, losing to Showtime is 'better' than losing to Guru based on the standard of the players if you get me?
I never said getting into Blizzcon individually meant dominating. I would even agree with you there, take Showtime for example: won the championship and got his place at Blizzcon but hardly dominating. What we were discussing was that theoretically if there were 5 Koreans in the WCS system and they all managed to secure a spot ( which may not happen in reality) then 5/8 foreigner spots would be occupied by Koreans, which could be deemed a dominance in effect.
|
IArako
Germany195 Posts
All this hate against against foreigners in here makes me sick. Ok i get it you love your koreans and i agree the current wcs system is unfair against them but i think its awesome to finally have a global event and its still 3/4 of spots to koreans and if they are that much better they will get all the high finishers and prizemoney so how on earth can you be so salty about that?
No offense but i cant understand... great job Kespa!
|
So... what happens when Neeb or Nerchio (the consensus top foreginers) wins Blizzcon?
|
On September 07 2016 10:23 Biscuittzz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 10:02 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 07 2016 07:10 Biscuittzz wrote:On September 07 2016 06:29 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 07 2016 06:07 Biscuittzz wrote:On September 07 2016 01:18 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 06 2016 22:34 Eiltonn wrote:
Btw what except for Neebs recent run in the Olimo Cup makes people think that foreigners will be able to beat Koreans? I do not mean any offense, but when there is 8 people going through KR only qualifiers + herO, Maru, Zest and Stats the only chance i see for the foreigners is Zest going for a cannon rush lol So Zest will cannon rush....and lose badly right? Besides, once you get past the top Koreans, (and there's no guarantee that only the very top Koreans will make it through the qualifiers) you get to Reality, alive, ryung, and gumiho. And all of those players have been beaten by a number of foreigners. So if (and this is a big if) the best of the best foreigners make it through, they may not be able to beat the top Koreans, but they'll likely put up some good games versus the weaker Koreans who qualify. On September 07 2016 01:15 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 07 2016 01:12 paralleluniverse wrote:
Is this the first global event of the year?
Having so few global events is one of the major letdowns of this year's WCS system. Yeah i think it is. Personally i only have two problems with the system: We have less korean tournaments and we have less "global" events because any global from last year got region locked this year. => It's not nearly as interesting to follow sc2 this year unless all you care for is foreigners winning tournaments But if you even care a bit for foreigners winning, then SC2 has been very interesting to follow. (Especially how Polt and Hydra were expected to dominate and then did the exact opposite.) Ehhhh out of the 3 WCS Championships this year, Polt won 1 and was a finalist in the other. Hardly doing the exact opposite haha. So 2/3 of the WCS this year have been won by Koreans, but that's the opposite right? ;/ As I said, he's done well. People were not speaking about True when they said Hydra and Polt would dominate. Ok, let's look for a moment at Hydra. One win, two ro8, two ro16, a ro4, and a ro32. This is hardly domination by Hydra. He's done significantly worse than people though he would. I would say that this is close to the opposite of dominant. Now Polt won one tournament and placed 2nd in another. However, he also has a ro4 finish, a ro16 finish, and a ro32 finish. I will admit that the "complete opposite" was not the right phrase for Polt. (For hydra, yes it was). However, people were expecting that he'd get ro4 or higher every tournament. And though he did win a tournament (Early into LotV) and he just placed 2nd (though if drogo hadn't choked he would have gotten ro8). But the fact that he got out in the ro16 and the ro32 is huge. To have that many foreign players advance over Polt was a big upset. In WCS, Koreans have won 3/8 of all foreign tournaments. Perhaps not individually, but I would say that 37.5% of all tournaments is the opposite of Korean domination in WCS. All depends on bracket though. Polt was knocked out by Showtime and Nerchio who are in the top 3 foreigners at the moment. He was knocked out by Firecake which I will grant was a shock. Polt has only gone to 5 tournaments this year, skipping Leipzig, WCS Shanghai and IEM Shanghai. In the ones he attended, He's gotten a 1st, 2nd, 3/4, and a Ro16 loss to Firecake. Also a Ro32 loss to showtime but that's bracket luck. Either way that's the best set of results from anyone in WCS this year so while perhaps not dominating he's on top IMO. I'll agree with TRUE and Hydra though. TRUE came out of nowhere and Hydra has completely dropped off. Agreed, Polt is one of the best players and has some of the best results. I would only say that he is one of the best players in WCS. From before, people that he would be the best player. But I don't take into account bracket luck as much because of people like Nerchio and Showtime and Neeb running into each other and taking each other out. I would consider Nerchio, Neeb, Showtime, and Polt around similar levels in WCS currently. Polt's probably a bit better, but they've all beaten each other in one tournament of qualifier or another. Also his second place was also due to a bit of luck of having drogo collapse. And getting into Blizzcon does not equal domination. It means you're very good, but it does not mean you dominated (not necessarily anyways). I think bracket luck is important if we're discussing tournament results. For example Snute also crashed out before in the Ro32 to Guru if I remember correctly. Both Polt and Snute thus have lost in the Ro32 to Showtime and Guru respectively. While no losses are good, losing to Showtime is 'better' than losing to Guru based on the standard of the players if you get me? I never said getting into Blizzcon individually meant dominating. I would even agree with you there, take Showtime for example: won the championship and got his place at Blizzcon but hardly dominating. What we were discussing was that theoretically if there were 5 Koreans in the WCS system and they all managed to secure a spot ( which may not happen in reality) then 5/8 foreigner spots would be occupied by Koreans, which could be deemed a dominance in effect.
Yeah, I get you, but since the results of Nerchio, Showtime (some of them anyhow) can also be related due to bracket luck. Neeb for instance fell to Nerchio in a previous tournament, and if he hadn't fallen, might he have done better? It's just that when we get down to each person's bracket and how easy or difficult their respective brackets might have been, it gets kind of complicated and very theoretical. Especially if we contemplate how far a player might have gone had he not met a certain person at a certain time.
Well, currently there are four Koreans, and at least three of them will make it in, so that is correct that they are "dominating" the foreign scene with regards to the amount of Koreans and how many made it through.
I was just considering that these Koreans were thought to, at the beginning of the year, to not only make it to Blizzcon and thus show dominance there but also to dominate or do very well in most if not all of their tournaments. (Which Polt has, to a certain degree).
|
On September 07 2016 12:37 breaker1328 wrote:
So... what happens when Neeb or Nerchio (the consensus top foreginers) wins Blizzcon?
That will be the time i relaize you all are just in my head and esports isn't actually real. I mean people watching other people playing videogames, makes no sense at all
|
On September 07 2016 12:37 breaker1328 wrote:
So... what happens when Neeb or Nerchio (the consensus top foreginers) wins Blizzcon?
It's easy: they won't.
Though, by heavily theorycrafting, IF Neeb got 3rd in WCS points, he would face Zest, True, and Byun. Zest is playing really bad right now, and he is losing everything. If that keeps up, then I could see Neeb upsetting him, and Neeb's already won versus Byun (despite Byun winning their last encounter), so Neeb could potentially beat him. Actually, Neeb's beaten True as well, so if Neeb was placed in group D, as things are now, I could see him advancing. Now, I couldn't see him advancing any farther, but I don't think it's impossible.
|
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
The fact that there were no other Global events isn't Blizzard's fault. Tournament organizers just didn't want to organize them.
|
Can't help wondering what KeSPA got from Blizzard for this. They were probably negotiating to the last minute, otherwise they would have announced it earlier.
Still: pretty cool! I was losing hope that there would be a global event at all.
|
On September 07 2016 04:51 egernya wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2016 20:14 Elentos wrote:On September 06 2016 19:15 Musicus wrote:Hype!!! But why monday finals? Well thankfully I am done working by then . Clearly because October 3rd is a holiday in Germany. We are the core audience of KeSPA Cup. Confirmed. On September 06 2016 20:14 Inflicted wrote:
Qualifier maps are Frost - KSS - Frozen Temple (in that order)
RIP Zergs? Frost and Frozen should be good enough for the really good ones to qualify. I did not know that Germany celebrated our foundation day too, even as a holiday as well!
10/3 is a holiday in Korea as well. National foundation day of ancient chosun. (some say it was founded B.C. 2200, but historical evidence says it was founded around B.C.1100.)
|
On September 07 2016 13:50 lichter wrote:
The fact that there were no other Global events isn't Blizzard's fault. Tournament organizers just didn't want to organize them.
Aren't the requirements for global events higher though?
|
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On September 07 2016 13:50 lichter wrote:
The fact that there were no other Global events isn't Blizzard's fault. Tournament organizers just didn't want to organize them.
And that's because Blizzard gave them absolutely zero incentive.
|
On September 07 2016 13:10 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 12:37 breaker1328 wrote:
So... what happens when Neeb or Nerchio (the consensus top foreginers) wins Blizzcon? That will be the time i relaize you all are just in my head and esports isn't actually real. I mean people watching other people playing videogames, makes no sense at all
Then you realize that would mean that swag_bro, sackofwetmice, baskerville, shauni, yoko, fluffy and myself are all products of your mind and swiftly return back to the fantasy and forget everything
|
On September 07 2016 16:05 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 13:50 lichter wrote:
The fact that there were no other Global events isn't Blizzard's fault. Tournament organizers just didn't want to organize them. And that's because Blizzard gave them absolutely zero incentive.
Didn't Blizzard even pay the organizers to exclude Koreans?
Meaning: If they organized a WCS Event, they got money, if they did a global event, they didn't?
|
Elentos
55594 Posts
On September 07 2016 08:23 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 06:47 Elentos wrote:On September 07 2016 06:44 Incognoto wrote:On September 07 2016 06:29 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 07 2016 06:07 Biscuittzz wrote:On September 07 2016 01:18 FrkFrJss wrote:On September 06 2016 22:34 Eiltonn wrote:
Btw what except for Neebs recent run in the Olimo Cup makes people think that foreigners will be able to beat Koreans? I do not mean any offense, but when there is 8 people going through KR only qualifiers + herO, Maru, Zest and Stats the only chance i see for the foreigners is Zest going for a cannon rush lol So Zest will cannon rush....and lose badly right? Besides, once you get past the top Koreans, (and there's no guarantee that only the very top Koreans will make it through the qualifiers) you get to Reality, alive, ryung, and gumiho. And all of those players have been beaten by a number of foreigners. So if (and this is a big if) the best of the best foreigners make it through, they may not be able to beat the top Koreans, but they'll likely put up some good games versus the weaker Koreans who qualify. On September 07 2016 01:15 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 07 2016 01:12 paralleluniverse wrote:
Is this the first global event of the year?
Having so few global events is one of the major letdowns of this year's WCS system. Yeah i think it is. Personally i only have two problems with the system: We have less korean tournaments and we have less "global" events because any global from last year got region locked this year. => It's not nearly as interesting to follow sc2 this year unless all you care for is foreigners winning tournaments But if you even care a bit for foreigners winning, then SC2 has been very interesting to follow. (Especially how Polt and Hydra were expected to dominate and then did the exact opposite.) Ehhhh out of the 3 WCS Championships this year, Polt won 1 and was a finalist in the other. Hardly doing the exact opposite haha. So 2/3 of the WCS this year have been won by Koreans, but that's the opposite right? ;/ As I said, he's done well. People were not speaking about True when they said Hydra and Polt would dominate. Ok, let's look for a moment at Hydra. One win, two ro8, two ro16, a ro4, and a ro32. This is hardly domination by Hydra. He's done significantly worse than people though he would. I would say that this is close to the opposite of dominant. Now Polt won one tournament and placed 2nd in another. However, he also has a ro4 finish, a ro16 finish, and a ro32 finish. I will admit that the "complete opposite" was not the right phrase for Polt. (For hydra, yes it was). However, people were expecting that he'd get ro4 or higher every tournament. And though he did win a tournament (Early into LotV) and he just placed 2nd (though if drogo hadn't choked he would have gotten ro8). But the fact that he got out in the ro16 and the ro32 is huge. To have that many foreign players advance over Polt was a big upset. In WCS, Koreans have won 3/8 of all foreign tournaments. Perhaps not individually, but I would say that 37.5% of all tournaments is the opposite of Korean domination in WCS. it's bigger when you take into account that there are only three Koreans and the rest are foreigners There's 4 and all of them might make Blizzcon (though viOlet probably won't). E: Actually there's 5. Still, 5 of like 100 are Korean and 3-4 make it. Not domination but it's a pretty silly percentage. Polt, Hydra, Violet, TRUE and who else??? Don't say MaSa.
KingKong
|
On September 07 2016 13:50 lichter wrote:
The fact that there were no other Global events isn't Blizzard's fault. Tournament organizers just didn't want to organize them.
Isn't the reason for the tournament organizers don't want that is that doing a circuit event much cheaper according to WCS rules?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
