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I'm glad this interview startled a discussion of such a high quality.
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On August 27 2016 08:57 ROOTFayth wrote:
I have no idea why people don't want diversity in tournaments, as a Canadian I'm usually rooting for whoever is from canada in a given tournament, or somebody who is in the same team etc. Maybe some people who don't play starcraft and only watch can't relate to that but I can't be the only one who finds it extremely boring when the finals of a tournament is generic korean #1 vs generic korean #2.
Also pros need money, so the fact that it's possible to make decent money for a foreigner now playing from his home is a lot more motivating than it used to be, and fuck passion seriously, passion doesn't put food on the table. Prior to this change the only way to be able to compete was to move to south korea to basically benefit of the same training regime.
If you're concerned about putting food on the table you'd be looking at other options than playing video games for a living. There are many more lucrative opportunities out there for talented, sharp minds. You don't get good at Starcraft without having a good head. If you really cared that much about "food on the table" you'd be doing other things.
In the end, passion matters very much.
Am I the only one who finds it legitimately racist when people say "generic Korean"? Why are you so limited that you need to look at players' ethnicity in order to enjoy what you're watching? I dare you to say that to Korean players, face to face: "You're just another generic Korean, so tired of seeing your face on camera, I'd rather see a white Canadian"
My god some of the shit people say is so cringe worthy.
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please let's not pretend that koreans are for some mysterious reason more talented at starcraft than foreigners, it's just not a thing, put 1000 random koreans and 1000 random foreigners in the same training environment and koreans won't have better or worse results than foreigners
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On August 27 2016 08:50 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2016 08:43 travis wrote:
As other people have pointed out, or implied;
"if you’re stuck in the Ro32 because of the Koreans, you can’t grow to become a better player. You need to be able to get further in tournaments to learn more and do better." is bullshit.
To get better you practice, and practice smart. Practicing more and/or smarter because you started placing higher is purely psychological.
If he wanted to frame it as a subjective opinion of how it effects his work ethic or whatever that would be fine. But he didn't. He framed it as though it was some sort of fact, which is nonsense. It doesn't matter how well you practice when the people you lose to in the Ro32 are playing in a much better practice environment than you can get. Koreans don't have an inherent advantage, it's just that they train in team houses with coaches telling them how to improve and a definite goal (Proleague) to practice for every week, which is something that doesn't exist outside of Korea.
Foreigner had that kind of environment many times. It just never worked out. Every team house shat its pants month after it was created. There were always disputes. And even the EG House couldnt get anything going. And after 6 years of practice, that whole practice excuse shouldnt going anymore
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On August 27 2016 08:59 QzYSc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2016 08:58 Clonester wrote:On August 27 2016 08:57 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:55 Clonester wrote:On August 27 2016 08:53 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:51 Clonester wrote:On August 27 2016 08:47 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:46 Elentos wrote:On August 27 2016 08:43 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:41 Elentos wrote:
[quote]
Shoutcraft is not a global event in the Blizzard/WCS sense, don't call it that. definition isnt written in stone okay. It's an entirely different thing. It's not even held offline. Next you're telling me Olimoleague is a global event. and where does it say an global event needs to be offline? sorry i missed that part The rules of Blizzard? The rules where it stands what actually a global event is, what it gives to the players and what technical aspects it has to match? A global event per definition used by 99% of the people here (and blizzard) is an event that is open to both WCS Circuit and WCS Korea, gives WCS points to both sides, is offline, brings over 50k prize money, is streamed in 1080p, has an on side viewership. Everything else is not a "global events" ok so where did 99% of the people find those rules about global events = offline only? http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/articles/2016-wcs-details-and-requirementsHere. thats a long read, please quote the relevant information that supports your statement, i do not have time to read it all. Hello Swag_bro, I did. nope. when i tell you that you dont need milk to make mac n cheese you dont disagree with me and say the library was your source.
Go back to my post, read it. I edited everything in for you, but here again:
WCS Global Events requirements:
WCS Points for 1st place 1500
Prize pool minimum $50,000+ or Blizzard approval
Number of players on-site: 8+ [This means at least 8 players must be on LAN stage]
Global Stream/Broadcasting Free 720p in English
On-Site Casters Required [This means on the LAN stage there must be english casters]
Sound Dampening Required
Live Audience Required [This means, there must be viewers right next to the LAN stage]
Please never start arguing when you cant read 5 pages of a rule book.
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On August 27 2016 09:07 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2016 08:57 ROOTFayth wrote:
I have no idea why people don't want diversity in tournaments, as a Canadian I'm usually rooting for whoever is from canada in a given tournament, or somebody who is in the same team etc. Maybe some people who don't play starcraft and only watch can't relate to that but I can't be the only one who finds it extremely boring when the finals of a tournament is generic korean #1 vs generic korean #2.
Also pros need money, so the fact that it's possible to make decent money for a foreigner now playing from his home is a lot more motivating than it used to be, and fuck passion seriously, passion doesn't put food on the table. Prior to this change the only way to be able to compete was to move to south korea to basically benefit of the same training regime. If you're concerned about putting food on the table you'd be looking at other options than playing video games for a living. There are many more lucrative opportunities out there for talented, sharp minds. You don't get good at Starcraft without having a good head. If you really cared that much about "food on the table" you'd be doing other things. In the end, passion matters very much. Am I the only one who finds it legitimately racist when people say "generic Korean"? Why are you so limited that you need to look at players' ethnicity in order to enjoy what you're watching? I dare you to say that to Korean players, face to face: "You're just another generic Korean, so tired of seeing your face on camera, I'd rather see a white Canadian" My god some of the shit people say is so cringe worthy.
nah I'm okay with Masa and he's not white, some koreans who went out of their way like other foreigners to learn the universal language that is english are also fine
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On August 27 2016 09:09 Clonester wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2016 08:59 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:58 Clonester wrote:On August 27 2016 08:57 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:55 Clonester wrote:On August 27 2016 08:53 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:51 Clonester wrote:On August 27 2016 08:47 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:46 Elentos wrote:On August 27 2016 08:43 QzYSc2 wrote:
[quote]
definition isnt written in stone okay. It's an entirely different thing. It's not even held offline. Next you're telling me Olimoleague is a global event. and where does it say an global event needs to be offline? sorry i missed that part The rules of Blizzard? The rules where it stands what actually a global event is, what it gives to the players and what technical aspects it has to match? A global event per definition used by 99% of the people here (and blizzard) is an event that is open to both WCS Circuit and WCS Korea, gives WCS points to both sides, is offline, brings over 50k prize money, is streamed in 1080p, has an on side viewership. Everything else is not a "global events" ok so where did 99% of the people find those rules about global events = offline only? http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/articles/2016-wcs-details-and-requirementsHere. thats a long read, please quote the relevant information that supports your statement, i do not have time to read it all. Hello Swag_bro, I did. nope. when i tell you that you dont need milk to make mac n cheese you dont disagree with me and say the library was your source. Go back to my post, read it. I edited everything in for you, but here again: Show nested quote +
WCS Global Events requirements:
WCS Points for 1st place 1500
Prize pool minimum $50,000+ or Blizzard approval
Number of players on-site: 8+ [This means at least 8 players must be on LAN stage]
Global Stream/Broadcasting Free 720p in English
On-Site Casters Required [This means on the LAN stage there must be english casters]
Sound Dampening Required
Live Audience Required [This means, there must be viewers right next to the LAN stage]
Please never start arguing when you cant read 5 pages of a rule book.
thats the definition of WCS global event, not global event. Thank you come again.
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To summarize: !@!
We (Foreigners) need more of what they (Koreans) have - not less.
We can make as many excuses as we want for why they are better - doesn't change anything or get us any closer to leveling the playing field. Everything we are doing in this year 2016 moves in the opposite direction of that.
Creating our own separate club and pretending they don't exist to make ourselves feel better is shameful - we should welcome the challenge and aspire to meet it - all this entitled bullshit I'm reading on here about every kid deserves to be a pro gamer (unless you are Korean and not in the top 1%) makes me fear for our future generations - this is the new era?
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On August 27 2016 09:07 ROOTFayth wrote:
please let's not pretend that koreans are for some mysterious reason more talented at starcraft than foreigners, it's just not a thing, put 1000 random koreans and 1000 random foreigners in the same training environment and koreans won't have better or worse results than foreigners
So then why are Koreans so much better than foreigners to the point that Blizzard decided to kick them out of international events?
Please enlighten me, as someone who actually plays starcraft
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On August 27 2016 09:10 QzYSc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2016 09:09 Clonester wrote:On August 27 2016 08:59 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:58 Clonester wrote:On August 27 2016 08:57 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:55 Clonester wrote:On August 27 2016 08:53 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:51 Clonester wrote:On August 27 2016 08:47 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:46 Elentos wrote:
[quote]
It's an entirely different thing. It's not even held offline. Next you're telling me Olimoleague is a global event. and where does it say an global event needs to be offline? sorry i missed that part The rules of Blizzard? The rules where it stands what actually a global event is, what it gives to the players and what technical aspects it has to match? A global event per definition used by 99% of the people here (and blizzard) is an event that is open to both WCS Circuit and WCS Korea, gives WCS points to both sides, is offline, brings over 50k prize money, is streamed in 1080p, has an on side viewership. Everything else is not a "global events" ok so where did 99% of the people find those rules about global events = offline only? http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/articles/2016-wcs-details-and-requirementsHere. thats a long read, please quote the relevant information that supports your statement, i do not have time to read it all. Hello Swag_bro, I did. nope. when i tell you that you dont need milk to make mac n cheese you dont disagree with me and say the library was your source. Go back to my post, read it. I edited everything in for you, but here again:
WCS Global Events requirements:
WCS Points for 1st place 1500
Prize pool minimum $50,000+ or Blizzard approval
Number of players on-site: 8+ [This means at least 8 players must be on LAN stage]
Global Stream/Broadcasting Free 720p in English
On-Site Casters Required [This means on the LAN stage there must be english casters]
Sound Dampening Required
Live Audience Required [This means, there must be viewers right next to the LAN stage]
Please never start arguing when you cant read 5 pages of a rule book. thats the definition of WCS global event, not global event. Thank you come again.
I just got swag_broed. I thought that couldnt happen anymore...
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On August 27 2016 09:11 Clonester wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2016 09:10 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 09:09 Clonester wrote:On August 27 2016 08:59 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:58 Clonester wrote:On August 27 2016 08:57 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:55 Clonester wrote:On August 27 2016 08:53 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:51 Clonester wrote:On August 27 2016 08:47 QzYSc2 wrote:
[quote]
and where does it say an global event needs to be offline? sorry i missed that part The rules of Blizzard? The rules where it stands what actually a global event is, what it gives to the players and what technical aspects it has to match? A global event per definition used by 99% of the people here (and blizzard) is an event that is open to both WCS Circuit and WCS Korea, gives WCS points to both sides, is offline, brings over 50k prize money, is streamed in 1080p, has an on side viewership. Everything else is not a "global events" ok so where did 99% of the people find those rules about global events = offline only? http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/articles/2016-wcs-details-and-requirementsHere. thats a long read, please quote the relevant information that supports your statement, i do not have time to read it all. Hello Swag_bro, I did. nope. when i tell you that you dont need milk to make mac n cheese you dont disagree with me and say the library was your source. Go back to my post, read it. I edited everything in for you, but here again:
WCS Global Events requirements:
WCS Points for 1st place 1500
Prize pool minimum $50,000+ or Blizzard approval
Number of players on-site: 8+ [This means at least 8 players must be on LAN stage]
Global Stream/Broadcasting Free 720p in English
On-Site Casters Required [This means on the LAN stage there must be english casters]
Sound Dampening Required
Live Audience Required [This means, there must be viewers right next to the LAN stage]
Please never start arguing when you cant read 5 pages of a rule book. thats the definition of WCS global event, not global event. Thank you come again. I just got swag_broed. I thought that couldnt happen anymore...
i am sorry but kentucky fried chicken is not the same as my homemade fried chicken, you lost 
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On August 27 2016 09:01 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2016 08:50 Solar424 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:43 travis wrote:
As other people have pointed out, or implied;
"if you’re stuck in the Ro32 because of the Koreans, you can’t grow to become a better player. You need to be able to get further in tournaments to learn more and do better." is bullshit.
To get better you practice, and practice smart. Practicing more and/or smarter because you started placing higher is purely psychological.
If he wanted to frame it as a subjective opinion of how it effects his work ethic or whatever that would be fine. But he didn't. He framed it as though it was some sort of fact, which is nonsense. It doesn't matter how well you practice when the people you lose to in the Ro32 are playing in a much better practice environment than you can get. Koreans don't have an inherent advantage, it's just that they train in team houses with coaches telling them how to improve and a definite goal (Proleague) to practice for every week, which is something that doesn't exist outside of Korea. Didn't EG make a teamhouse or w/e and then (im assuming here, slap me if im wrong) - the players were lazy as shit compared to koreans and half-assed their practice compared to korean pro teams and thus ended up only subpar compared to korean pros? What you are talking about is something that *could* exist outside korea. I expect that for the most part, players probably haven't been too keen on the idea. I expect that the players that do the best right now in the foreign scene have some of the strongest work ethic. Maybe they should talk to their sponsors if they want to try to take it to another level. But why would they want to if all they have to do is take out the B level foreigners to make a good living? 
I recall reading about this. However I think a huge problem is with how the foreigners practice, and who they practice with. From what I know, foreigners tend to just practice on ladder while Koreans will load up custom games to refine their builds and then practice on ladder as well as with teammates and players on other teams.
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On August 27 2016 09:06 Ej_ wrote:
I'm glad this interview startled a discussion of such a high quality.
It's because we're all much more motivated to do so
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On August 27 2016 09:10 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2016 09:07 ROOTFayth wrote:
please let's not pretend that koreans are for some mysterious reason more talented at starcraft than foreigners, it's just not a thing, put 1000 random koreans and 1000 random foreigners in the same training environment and koreans won't have better or worse results than foreigners So then why are Koreans so much better than foreigners to the point that Blizzard decided to kick them out of international events? Please enlighten me, as someone who actually plays starcraft
there's the very structured team house training regime I would assume and also they have WAY more players aspiring to become pro gamer, probably more of those in Seoul alone than the entire rest of the world
like if you throw in 10 000 koreans and 5 foreigners, odds are the #1 is going to be korean
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On August 27 2016 09:10 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2016 09:07 Incognoto wrote:On August 27 2016 08:57 ROOTFayth wrote:
I have no idea why people don't want diversity in tournaments, as a Canadian I'm usually rooting for whoever is from canada in a given tournament, or somebody who is in the same team etc. Maybe some people who don't play starcraft and only watch can't relate to that but I can't be the only one who finds it extremely boring when the finals of a tournament is generic korean #1 vs generic korean #2.
Also pros need money, so the fact that it's possible to make decent money for a foreigner now playing from his home is a lot more motivating than it used to be, and fuck passion seriously, passion doesn't put food on the table. Prior to this change the only way to be able to compete was to move to south korea to basically benefit of the same training regime. If you're concerned about putting food on the table you'd be looking at other options than playing video games for a living. There are many more lucrative opportunities out there for talented, sharp minds. You don't get good at Starcraft without having a good head. If you really cared that much about "food on the table" you'd be doing other things. In the end, passion matters very much. Am I the only one who finds it legitimately racist when people say "generic Korean"? Why are you so limited that you need to look at players' ethnicity in order to enjoy what you're watching? I dare you to say that to Korean players, face to face: "You're just another generic Korean, so tired of seeing your face on camera, I'd rather see a white Canadian" My god some of the shit people say is so cringe worthy. nah I'm okay with Masa and he's not white, some koreans who went out of their way like other foreigners to learn the universal language that is english are also fine
Oh, is that the criteria then? So you need to speak English in order to not be a generic person? That's nice, very nice.
"Hey if you don't speak English you're a generic fuck who doesn't deserve to make a living playing starcraft, I am more deserving than you are for that role"
Barring of course the fact that you just happened to be accidentally born in a first world country which also just happens to have English as its language. tell me more about the effort you made to learn Asian languages
my god are you even thinking when you're posting this shit?
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On August 27 2016 09:14 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2016 09:10 ROOTFayth wrote:On August 27 2016 09:07 Incognoto wrote:On August 27 2016 08:57 ROOTFayth wrote:
I have no idea why people don't want diversity in tournaments, as a Canadian I'm usually rooting for whoever is from canada in a given tournament, or somebody who is in the same team etc. Maybe some people who don't play starcraft and only watch can't relate to that but I can't be the only one who finds it extremely boring when the finals of a tournament is generic korean #1 vs generic korean #2.
Also pros need money, so the fact that it's possible to make decent money for a foreigner now playing from his home is a lot more motivating than it used to be, and fuck passion seriously, passion doesn't put food on the table. Prior to this change the only way to be able to compete was to move to south korea to basically benefit of the same training regime. If you're concerned about putting food on the table you'd be looking at other options than playing video games for a living. There are many more lucrative opportunities out there for talented, sharp minds. You don't get good at Starcraft without having a good head. If you really cared that much about "food on the table" you'd be doing other things. In the end, passion matters very much. Am I the only one who finds it legitimately racist when people say "generic Korean"? Why are you so limited that you need to look at players' ethnicity in order to enjoy what you're watching? I dare you to say that to Korean players, face to face: "You're just another generic Korean, so tired of seeing your face on camera, I'd rather see a white Canadian" My god some of the shit people say is so cringe worthy. nah I'm okay with Masa and he's not white, some koreans who went out of their way like other foreigners to learn the universal language that is english are also fine Oh, is that the criteria then? So you need to speak English in order to not be a generic person? That's nice, very nice. "Hey if you don't speak English you're a generic fuck who doesn't deserve to make a living playing starcraft, I am more deserving than you are for that role" Barring of course the fact that you just happened to be accidentally born in a first world country which also just happens to have English as its language. tell me more about the effort you made to learn Asian languages my god are you even thinking when you're posting this shit?
It's a lot easier to convey emotion when you're not speaking through a translator.
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Well I'm in the part of Canada that has french as its language, so like you I learned a 2nd language that allows me to communicate with most people who also learn english as a 2nd language, no need to get upset buddy, take a deep breath.
and yes if you want to compete internationally but are not willing to learn to communicate internationally you are a generic fuck, there are several koreans who actually made effort to speak english in interviews and it made me want to root for them a LOT more than those who used a translator
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On August 27 2016 09:02 QzYSc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2016 09:00 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 27 2016 08:26 QzYSc2 wrote:On August 27 2016 08:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 27 2016 08:15 QzYSc2 wrote:
enviroment is just a dumb excuse. you dont need an enviroment of hard working people to adapt a hard working mindset of your own. no man is an island. most people are the approximation of the 5 people they hang out with the most. sorry im not an english native speaker, do elaborate. birds of a feather flock together. you always hang out with people who are similar to you. if you aspire to be a great software engineer the best thing to do is to hang out with and collaborate actively and constantly with the best software engineers. whatever your goal is.. hang out with people who have similar goals. you both compete and collaborate with them to make urself better. sure it helps. do i think its a requirement? absolutely not.
ya it is. and it is for so many other activities there is nothing special about Starcraft. Hitting a baseball is an individually based as Starcraft. Same applies with any one who wants to be baseball hitter in the world.. except its english and the USA instead.
in fact, Ichiro Suzuki learned both English and Spanish so he could blend in and trash talk with all players.
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On August 27 2016 09:13 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2016 09:10 Incognoto wrote:On August 27 2016 09:07 ROOTFayth wrote:
please let's not pretend that koreans are for some mysterious reason more talented at starcraft than foreigners, it's just not a thing, put 1000 random koreans and 1000 random foreigners in the same training environment and koreans won't have better or worse results than foreigners So then why are Koreans so much better than foreigners to the point that Blizzard decided to kick them out of international events? Please enlighten me, as someone who actually plays starcraft there's the very structured team house training regime I would assume and also they have WAY more players aspiring to become pro gamer, probably more of those in Seoul alone than the entire rest of the world like if you throw in 10 000 koreans and 5 foreigners, odds are the #1 is going to be korean
So Seoul is bigger than the rest of the world? Thats fucking hilarious. And how do you know that every dominant korean had the insane korean teamhouse practice? That wasnt the case, especially in the beginning of SC2, when alot of koreans didnt wanted that kind of treatment anymore. And most of the dominant 2015 koreans didnt live in korea for a long time. What happend there?
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On August 27 2016 09:17 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2016 09:14 Incognoto wrote:On August 27 2016 09:10 ROOTFayth wrote:On August 27 2016 09:07 Incognoto wrote:On August 27 2016 08:57 ROOTFayth wrote:
I have no idea why people don't want diversity in tournaments, as a Canadian I'm usually rooting for whoever is from canada in a given tournament, or somebody who is in the same team etc. Maybe some people who don't play starcraft and only watch can't relate to that but I can't be the only one who finds it extremely boring when the finals of a tournament is generic korean #1 vs generic korean #2.
Also pros need money, so the fact that it's possible to make decent money for a foreigner now playing from his home is a lot more motivating than it used to be, and fuck passion seriously, passion doesn't put food on the table. Prior to this change the only way to be able to compete was to move to south korea to basically benefit of the same training regime. If you're concerned about putting food on the table you'd be looking at other options than playing video games for a living. There are many more lucrative opportunities out there for talented, sharp minds. You don't get good at Starcraft without having a good head. If you really cared that much about "food on the table" you'd be doing other things. In the end, passion matters very much. Am I the only one who finds it legitimately racist when people say "generic Korean"? Why are you so limited that you need to look at players' ethnicity in order to enjoy what you're watching? I dare you to say that to Korean players, face to face: "You're just another generic Korean, so tired of seeing your face on camera, I'd rather see a white Canadian" My god some of the shit people say is so cringe worthy. nah I'm okay with Masa and he's not white, some koreans who went out of their way like other foreigners to learn the universal language that is english are also fine Oh, is that the criteria then? So you need to speak English in order to not be a generic person? That's nice, very nice. "Hey if you don't speak English you're a generic fuck who doesn't deserve to make a living playing starcraft, I am more deserving than you are for that role" Barring of course the fact that you just happened to be accidentally born in a first world country which also just happens to have English as its language. tell me more about the effort you made to learn Asian languages my god are you even thinking when you're posting this shit? It's a lot easier to convey emotion when you're not speaking through a translator.
How does that in any way shape or form make a person generic? YOU can't understand them, so THEY are the ones who are generic, faceless, boring people?
I'm just done with this thread
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EPT
