On August 27 2016 10:01 ROOTFayth wrote: wow you still think I said Seoul is bigger than the rest of the world, reading comprehension 101??
not to mention some foreigners made it and then moved on to other things, snute has made 250k I think from SC2, isn't that what you'd consider making it?
Funny that you consider Snute as a progamer who couldnt make it. Somewhat cheap, but hey
On August 27 2016 10:04 Shellshock wrote: I hope they're right about getting better and do hold their own at blizzcon, at least better than a lot of people are predicting. Would be more interesting that way.
the best processes will always produce the best players. part of what makes a player the best in any activity is their ability to identify the best processes and execute on them.
On August 27 2016 05:53 OtherWorld wrote: It seems like he falls in the trap of considering that because people have better results and are more motivated, they're automatically better. I don't think that's the case. If a kid gets consistent C+ in school and you start giving him A- only, while he hasn't improved his work, you'll get the same effect : he'll feel better, happier, but he won't be objectively better - and he surely won't see why he should try to improve now that he's getting decent marks.
BlizzCon will tell us where we are as far as foreigners vs Koreans is concerned. But I've said it and I'll say it again, if foreigners as a whole take more than 3 maps from Koreans, I'll be surprised. And if they take more than 7, I'll be on my ass.
It's nice to see a progamer finally talking about numbers though. 50K$/y seems like a rather comfortable sum for a SC2 pro.
It's all bullshit, his not dumb, he knows that without Koreans , it's way easier to get money.
Easier path > better results > more money.
No foreign wants to really become better then a code s players, they know it's impossible.
Also I really dislike bullshit, I know his a Terran player and his used to this kind of behaviour but damn so much bullshit in his words.
why is it impossible, are you racist or something
Genetically, foreigner is very possible at excelling at SC2.
But realistically for foreigners to be good at SC2, they don't have the infrastructure as Korea.
So they have to make the decision to move to Korea.
Then they need to talk to Koreans to get their strat which means they need to learn Korean.
And at this stage, SC2 is not doing well.
People just won't invest their time and thus it is pretty much not possible.
agreed with everything you said, but theoretically it's still possible if someone would actually move to korea, learn korean and not give a fuck about playing a dead game
On August 27 2016 10:36 ROOTFayth wrote: agreed with everything you said, but theoretically it's still possible if someone would actually move to korea, learn korean and not give a fuck about playing a dead game
Yes in theory but realistically, that would be an act of insanity.
On August 27 2016 10:57 calh wrote: Foreigners might really be improving, but it appears to me the Korean scene is in decline for some time already. Is this tradeoff worth it?
On the other hand it could make Blizzcon more competitive...
Both Korean scene and foreign scene are declining.
And foreign scene is declining at faster rate than the Korean scene.
If I am someone who wants to be competitive in esport, SC2 is not the game that I would invest my time in.
At this point, SC2 competitive scene probably won't be dead but it will be more played at a part-time level.
On August 27 2016 08:15 QzYSc2 wrote: enviroment is just a dumb excuse. you dont need an enviroment of hard working people to adapt a hard working mindset of your own.
no man is an island. most people are the approximation of the 5 people they hang out with the most.
sorry im not an english native speaker, do elaborate.
birds of a feather flock together. you always hang out with people who are similar to you. if you aspire to be a great software engineer the best thing to do is to hang out with and collaborate actively and constantly with the best software engineers. whatever your goal is.. hang out with people who have similar goals. you both compete and collaborate with them to make urself better.
sure it helps. do i think its a requirement? absolutely not.
ya it is. and it is for so many other activities there is nothing special about Starcraft. Hitting a baseball is an individually based as Starcraft. Same applies with any one who wants to be baseball hitter in the world.. except its english and the USA instead.
in fact, Ichiro Suzuki learned both English and Spanish so he could blend in and trash talk with all players.
I don't get how we're looking at the same example and drawing opposite conclusions.
The way I see it, mid-low tier traditional sports leagues around the world have created an environment where local talent can be nurtured, often with the use of protective regulations. That system allows exceptional talent to be trained and scouted, and sometimes make their way into the top tier leagues of the world.
On August 27 2016 10:57 calh wrote: Foreigners might really be improving, but it appears to me the Korean scene is in decline for some time already. Is this tradeoff worth it?
On the other hand it could make Blizzcon more competitive...
Depends on the draws the 4/5 foreigners get really. Nerchio probably can beat 1-2 of the Kespa koreans. Neeb might if he doesn't choke up again and Snute is Snute. I don't see Showtime or Elazer if he makes it beating anyone on the Korean side though.
On August 27 2016 11:13 royalroadweed wrote: I intensely dislike the foreigner mentality of "I can never be as good or better than Korean players". Its so self defeating.
Genetically, foreigner is very possible at excelling at SC2.
But realistically for foreigners to be good at SC2, they don't have the infrastructure as Korea.
So they have to make the decision to move to Korea.
Then they need to talk to Koreans to get their strat which means they need to learn Korean.
And at this stage, SC2 is not doing well.
People just won't invest their time and thus it is pretty much not possible.
On August 27 2016 08:15 QzYSc2 wrote: enviroment is just a dumb excuse. you dont need an enviroment of hard working people to adapt a hard working mindset of your own.
no man is an island. most people are the approximation of the 5 people they hang out with the most.
sorry im not an english native speaker, do elaborate.
birds of a feather flock together. you always hang out with people who are similar to you. if you aspire to be a great software engineer the best thing to do is to hang out with and collaborate actively and constantly with the best software engineers. whatever your goal is.. hang out with people who have similar goals. you both compete and collaborate with them to make urself better.
sure it helps. do i think its a requirement? absolutely not.
ya it is. and it is for so many other activities there is nothing special about Starcraft. Hitting a baseball is an individually based as Starcraft. Same applies with any one who wants to be baseball hitter in the world.. except its english and the USA instead.
in fact, Ichiro Suzuki learned both English and Spanish so he could blend in and trash talk with all players.
I don't get how we're looking at the same example and drawing opposite conclusions.
The way I see it, mid-low tier traditional sports leagues around the world have created an environment where local talent can be nurtured, often with the use of protective regulations. That system allows exceptional talent to be trained and scouted, and sometimes make their way into the top tier leagues of the world.
You're comparing AA leagues and collegiate athletics with WCS are you joking me?
Heroes of the Dorm and Collegiate Starleague, are good examples of where regionlocking for the sake of promoting growth in local scenes makes sense.
Having half of the Blizzcon participants come from regionlocked WCS events is not the same thing. You're locking the highest level of competition in the HOPE that it might create some trickle down growth to the local scenes.
Completely different approaches, I don't see how you can possibly buy your own argument.
One of the problems with the current WCS is the lack of Korea+Foreigner tournaments. Even if they keep the region lock, there should be at least a few more of these joint tournaments, including one mini-Blizzcon tournament that combines all regions at the middle of the year.
On August 27 2016 06:11 Soularion wrote: My ideal system would be something more similar to 2013/2014; whatever korean wants to attend WCS just has to move to somewhere other than KR and provide proof of residence. No VISA requirement. But, you make it so they also need residence in order to attend Dreamhacks, or IEMs, or any foreign tournament like that. That way, we get more koreans, but those koreans will have to be part of the foreign ecosystem (say, for ladder) and will actively grow the scene instead of stealing from it. I think that's perfect - or at least close to perfect - for everyone involved.
So long as there are 6 starleagues + kespa cups, yea that's fair. When EU had those quality koreans, we probably started to see the best the non-koreans had to offer. We should go back to such times.
EPT
