• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:41
CEST 04:41
KST 11:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025)7Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, GuMiho, Classic, Cure6Code S RO8 Preview: Classic, Reynor, Maru, GuMiho3Code S RO8 Preview: ByuN, Rogue, herO, Cure5[ASL19] Ro4 Preview: Storied Rivals7
Community News
Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results42025 GSL Season 2 (Qualifiers)14Code S Season 1 - Classic & GuMiho advance to RO4 (2025)4[BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET7herO & Cure GSL RO8 Interviews: "I also think that all the practice I put in when Protoss wasn’t doing as well is paying off"0
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (May 5-11): New 2v2 Champs Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025) Code S RO8 Preview: Classic, Reynor, Maru, GuMiho Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, GuMiho, Classic, Cure
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Monday Nights Weeklies 2025 GSL Season 2 (Qualifiers) [GSL 2025] Code S Season 1 - RO4 and Grand Finals Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed
Brood War
General
Where is effort ? BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React To: Emotional Finalist in Best vs Light ASL 19 Tickets for foreigners BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL19] Semifinal A [USBL Spring 2025] Groups cast [ASL19] Semifinal B
Strategy
[G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player Creating a full chart of Zerg builds [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
What do you want from future RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Grand Theft Auto VI Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Books] Wool by Hugh Howey
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Why 5v5 Games Keep Us Hooked…
TrAiDoS
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
BW PvZ Balance hypothetic…
Vasoline73
ASL S19 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 28493 users

Community Feedback Update - July 1 - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
152 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Siegetank_Dieter
Profile Joined June 2016
45 Posts
July 01 2016 21:24 GMT
#21
but what about fixing real issues ?
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28463 Posts
July 01 2016 21:28 GMT
#22
Indeed, fix the following list of real issues first pls
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Lexender
Profile Joined September 2013
Mexico2623 Posts
July 01 2016 21:33 GMT
#23
Altough I can see the need for a buff for zerg early game defense, I really dislike the notion of buffing the queen, is just like what they did with the MsC, instead of addressing the issues they just put a band aid and we end with yet a nother totally dominant unit. If lib harass is a problem adress that, if tankivacs are a problem adress that.

Don't give us another MsC please, having 1 is already too many.
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
July 01 2016 21:43 GMT
#24
fuck yeah back to mass queens in ZvT

no drop is safe from my creep queens anymore
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
JackONeill
Profile Joined September 2013
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-01 21:51:42
July 01 2016 21:47 GMT
#25
The massive drop in playerbase means blizz isn't designing the game well, it's not about wether the balance team knows how to play the game. Ravager spamming ability, adept shade meaning they can threaten two mineral lines at once, disruptor being hit or miss BS, liberator doing the tank's job and therefore provoking design issues because it flies, viper's PB, etc...
It's about how easy it is to perform something against how hard it is to react to it. It's easy to siege liberators. It's easy to spamm bile. It's easy to warp adepts, and shade in another mineral line. But it's so much harder to react to it. And because it has a lot to do with worker harass, it's even more frustrating because you can loose so many workers and have no option to come back into the game.

That's the real issues the game faces. That's why TvZ is "either terran wins before late game or he dies". That's why TvP is about bio killing stalkers to prevent them from killing liberators that kill every single protoss unit but the stalker. That's why once protoss cuts the map in PvZ with tempest, canons and HTs, the game is over.

To fix this (even though i know it's pointless to point out the obvious) : rework units that induces very onesided scenarii. Tempest being able to hit from 15 range with revelation, while being extremely massable? It's an issue. Ultras being so cost efficient in TvZ terran has to stay in the air? It's an issue. Tankivac harass being overwhelming and breaking defender's advantage? It's an issue. Liberators sieging mineral lines so easily but the opponent has to spend a lot of APM to defend? It's an issue. Terran being pigeonholed into one comp per matchup? It's an issue.
Work on that. Work on the frustrating BS that make players leave the game. THAT'S THE ISSUES THE GAME FACE, NO ONE CARES ABOUT DK'S LEVEL ON THE LADDER.
xTJx
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil419 Posts
July 01 2016 21:54 GMT
#26
Impact of queen and spore "buff": None.
No prejudices, i hate everyone equally.
SHODAN
Profile Joined November 2011
United Kingdom1060 Posts
July 01 2016 22:16 GMT
#27
well they've already done a disastrous job designing sc2 up until this point. might as well go balls deep now.[image loading]
HaroldtheBarrel
Profile Joined July 2016
1 Post
July 01 2016 22:49 GMT
#28
This.

On July 02 2016 06:47 JackONeill wrote:
The massive drop in playerbase means blizz isn't designing the game well, it's not about wether the balance team knows how to play the game. Ravager spamming ability, adept shade meaning they can threaten two mineral lines at once, disruptor being hit or miss BS, liberator doing the tank's job and therefore provoking design issues because it flies, viper's PB, etc...
It's about how easy it is to perform something against how hard it is to react to it. It's easy to siege liberators. It's easy to spamm bile. It's easy to warp adepts, and shade in another mineral line. But it's so much harder to react to it. And because it has a lot to do with worker harass, it's even more frustrating because you can loose so many workers and have no option to come back into the game.


User was warned for this post
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28463 Posts
July 01 2016 22:58 GMT
#29
You don't do the liberator justice, it works 3 jobs dammit!

- Tank
- Banshee
- Thor
I Protoss winner, could it be?
PinoKotsBeer
Profile Joined February 2014
Netherlands1385 Posts
July 01 2016 23:10 GMT
#30
On July 02 2016 06:47 JackONeill wrote:
The massive drop in playerbase means blizz isn't designing the game well, it's not about wether the balance team knows how to play the game. Ravager spamming ability, adept shade meaning they can threaten two mineral lines at once, disruptor being hit or miss BS, liberator doing the tank's job and therefore provoking design issues because it flies, viper's PB, etc...
It's about how easy it is to perform something against how hard it is to react to it. It's easy to siege liberators. It's easy to spamm bile. It's easy to warp adepts, and shade in another mineral line. But it's so much harder to react to it. And because it has a lot to do with worker harass, it's even more frustrating because you can loose so many workers and have no option to come back into the game.

^^ 100% agree with it.
http://www.twitch.tv/pinokotsbeer
Hanfy
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany15 Posts
July 01 2016 23:10 GMT
#31
Where is the Warpprism nerf?
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20282 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-01 23:27:39
July 01 2016 23:14 GMT
#32
On July 02 2016 08:10 Hanfy wrote:
Where is the Warpprism nerf?


Both of the zerg changes will make warp prisms less effective

Queen's AA weapon range increased from 7 to 8
Spore Crawler's Root time decreased from 6 to 4
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
scoo2r
Profile Joined December 2015
Canada90 Posts
July 01 2016 23:29 GMT
#33
The game design ideas generally sound fine from the blizz staff, just that sometimes the ideas get lost due to reactive changes. A good example is the widowmine, originally conceptualized to be a cheap factory anti-air unit to help mech-heavy openers, it rapidly became the new best friend for bio players, in fact wm came to define much of HOTS, who can forget Polt parade pushing marine marauder medivac across creep with wm backup. So the unit had to be nerfed and buffed and adjusted to balance it with the bio style, loosing the usefulness of it as a core anti-air unit. Now, don't get me wrong, wm is indeed one of the most beautifully balanced units in the game, it can do game winning damage (on both sides!), however, when you compare the original design idea and what it became, that path was reactive rather than proactive. One could have said, lets make wm move slower and shoot faster, so good for mech bad for bio. Several other examples are out there, cyclone meant to be a mobile harassment tool, is a niche defensive unit now, or swarmhost meant to be a siege unit, then a harass unit, now kind of obsolete, most zerg would probably want to get back the idea of a seige unit as originally planned because that gave zerg some options other than bl festor or now ultras.
Another day, another depot.
My_Fake_Plastic_Luv
Profile Joined March 2010
United States257 Posts
July 01 2016 23:32 GMT
#34
That's a nifty rhetorical move by Davyie. Instead of focusing on the issue of game design (which is the more important issue) he shifts focus on the game designers, By questioning the ability of a critic to know the abilities of the designers based off metric of designer's in game skill, he effectively puts the "attack" the person rather than the idea. Ethos vs. Logos if you will. In doing so he subtly reinforcing the notion that his game designers do know what they are doing, even if they are not experienced pros, while undercutting several critical position (such as the pro's position vs. the silver league position). Essentially what he is getting at is that our personal experiences with SC2 have no bearing on knowing what's right for the game. Doesn't matter how smart or experienced you are (even though that little random masters comment lends Dayvie credibility, while his argument snidely undermining his credibility), you don't have the right to comment on the designers, which means you don't have the right to comment on the design. Which means, discussing game design ideas would in a way be beneath him, as an actual game designer.

Basically I think an elaborate trolling going on here.

Ironically though if the ability to design the game is not based off of player ability than we all have the right to endless bitch about game design, which in the end still calls the game designer's abilities into question lol. Also if we take Dayvie's message for what it really says: I think it saying that no one really knows how to design a game.

Sorry this is not that well written.

Its going to be a glorious day, I feel my luck could change
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3340 Posts
July 01 2016 23:42 GMT
#35
To the game design question, I think the answer is simply to have every level. How else will you cater to all levels, if you don't at least have input from all levels. So optimally these inputs would be good game designers all on the same team, though that's a bit of a dream scenario.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
404AlphaSquad
Profile Joined October 2011
839 Posts
July 02 2016 00:08 GMT
#36
On July 02 2016 07:58 Penev wrote:
You don't do the liberator justice, it works 3 jobs dammit!

- Tank
- Banshee
- Thor

For some reason I imagine the pilots shouting: "they took our jobs"
aka Kalevi
Aegwynn
Profile Joined September 2015
Italy460 Posts
July 02 2016 00:19 GMT
#37
As a zerg i feel this change so bad, it will promote defensive play even more. Why would a zerg player ever try to be offensive when pylons can shoot and tanks can fly? Fixing those issues would make much more sense, mass queen till ultra ftw lol.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10666 Posts
July 02 2016 00:29 GMT
#38
Nerf Liberators and Ultralisks, and there is really no reason to buff Queens / spores I feel
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8224 Posts
July 02 2016 01:00 GMT
#39
On July 02 2016 08:10 Hanfy wrote:
Where is the Warpprism nerf?

They just buffed it.
Sweetness.751
Profile Joined April 2011
United States225 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-02 02:14:50
July 02 2016 01:14 GMT
#40
On July 02 2016 06:24 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2016 06:19 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't understand why they are buffing queens before looking into liberator AA damage.
Liberator AA damage should be adressed first, all the queen buff does is buffing hive rush strategies.

If they buff something Zerg it can also act as a buff against Protoss at the same time, so that could be a reason.


But the problem is the Liberator. Not that the Queen is weak. For an all mineral unit. its actually extremely good. Not to mention they even named the Liberator as a potential problem that needs a nerf in the future,
Elentos wrote: Do you think only 10 life points more for Viking is enough bObA wrote: 10 life points is all you need to send someone to the Shadow Realm.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 19m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 218
RuFF_SC2 166
ProTech90
Ketroc 41
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3681
Artosis 943
Icarus 11
Dota 2
monkeys_forever314
LuMiX1
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King207
Other Games
summit1g12631
shahzam872
JimRising 633
ViBE308
WinterStarcraft194
Maynarde158
ToD118
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick837
StarCraft 2
ESL.tv114
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH276
• Hupsaiya 93
• davetesta49
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki26
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra1087
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
8h 19m
Monday Night Weeklies
13h 19m
Replay Cast
1d 21h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Road to EWC
4 days
SC Evo League
5 days
Road to EWC
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
BeSt vs Soulkey
[ Show More ]
Road to EWC
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-05-16
2025 GSL S1
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
ASL Season 19
YSL S1
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Heroes 10 EU
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

Rose Open S1
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
DreamHack Dallas 2025
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.