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On July 04 2016 21:26 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2016 23:31 MockHamill wrote:On July 02 2016 06:47 JackONeill wrote:
The massive drop in playerbase means blizz isn't designing the game well, it's not about wether the balance team knows how to play the game. Ravager spamming ability, adept shade meaning they can threaten two mineral lines at once, disruptor being hit or miss BS, liberator doing the tank's job and therefore provoking design issues because it flies, viper's PB, etc...
It's about how easy it is to perform something against how hard it is to react to it. It's easy to siege liberators. It's easy to spamm bile. It's easy to warp adepts, and shade in another mineral line. But it's so much harder to react to it. And because it has a lot to do with worker harass, it's even more frustrating because you can loose so many workers and have no option to come back into the game.
That's the real issues the game faces. That's why TvZ is "either terran wins before late game or he dies". That's why TvP is about bio killing stalkers to prevent them from killing liberators that kill every single protoss unit but the stalker. That's why once protoss cuts the map in PvZ with tempest, canons and HTs, the game is over.
To fix this (even though i know it's pointless to point out the obvious) : rework units that induces very onesided scenarii. Tempest being able to hit from 15 range with revelation, while being extremely massable? It's an issue. Ultras being so cost efficient in TvZ terran has to stay in the air? It's an issue. Tankivac harass being overwhelming and breaking defender's advantage? It's an issue. Liberators sieging mineral lines so easily but the opponent has to spend a lot of APM to defend? It's an issue. Terran being pigeonholed into one comp per matchup? It's an issue.
Work on that. Work on the frustrating BS that make players leave the game. THAT'S THE ISSUES THE GAME FACE, NO ONE CARES ABOUT DK'S LEVEL ON THE LADDER. This so much. Blizzard please try to solve the real issues instead of something that only affect 5-10 Zergs in Korea. You need to make the game more fun and less frustrating not just try to maintain a 50/50 balance for the top 0.1% of the playerbase. - Massive drop in player base whine : based on what? twitch tv figures? (which don't even take proleague in their count btw) or on what source? nios.kr has shut down and rankedftw says there were more people on ladder at the end of last season (205 000) than at the end of the one before (197 000). Where is the massive drop? in OP's wet dreams?
http://www.rankedftw.com/stats/population/1v1/#v=1&r=-2&sx=a&sy=c
the last season of HotS had 331000 ranked players, the latest LotV season 205000 ranked players. that's definitely a massive drop in player base.
TvZ terran either wins before late game or dies whine Yeah we were missing that cliche. Oh breaking news : it's totally wrong.
do you watch pro games? terrans very very rarely win in lategame. on ladder it's even worse because of the difficulty of controlling ghost/liberator compared to controlling ultras.
WTF! Just WTF!!! nobody that is playing the game as terran can seriously even remotly think this. You have many styles of bio comp, you have mech, you have sky, you have so many combination of opening, transitions, late game comp, so many options to harass, so many all in and timings. We see new builds poping up every damn week!
???
if you want to go on a rant please inform yourself first about the things you are raging about. I don't agree with all things the guy you responded to said but your post is at least just as false.
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Why nerfing again Liberators ?
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On July 05 2016 08:29 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2016 21:26 Gwavajuice wrote:On July 03 2016 23:31 MockHamill wrote:On July 02 2016 06:47 JackONeill wrote:
The massive drop in playerbase means blizz isn't designing the game well, it's not about wether the balance team knows how to play the game. Ravager spamming ability, adept shade meaning they can threaten two mineral lines at once, disruptor being hit or miss BS, liberator doing the tank's job and therefore provoking design issues because it flies, viper's PB, etc...
It's about how easy it is to perform something against how hard it is to react to it. It's easy to siege liberators. It's easy to spamm bile. It's easy to warp adepts, and shade in another mineral line. But it's so much harder to react to it. And because it has a lot to do with worker harass, it's even more frustrating because you can loose so many workers and have no option to come back into the game.
That's the real issues the game faces. That's why TvZ is "either terran wins before late game or he dies". That's why TvP is about bio killing stalkers to prevent them from killing liberators that kill every single protoss unit but the stalker. That's why once protoss cuts the map in PvZ with tempest, canons and HTs, the game is over.
To fix this (even though i know it's pointless to point out the obvious) : rework units that induces very onesided scenarii. Tempest being able to hit from 15 range with revelation, while being extremely massable? It's an issue. Ultras being so cost efficient in TvZ terran has to stay in the air? It's an issue. Tankivac harass being overwhelming and breaking defender's advantage? It's an issue. Liberators sieging mineral lines so easily but the opponent has to spend a lot of APM to defend? It's an issue. Terran being pigeonholed into one comp per matchup? It's an issue.
Work on that. Work on the frustrating BS that make players leave the game. THAT'S THE ISSUES THE GAME FACE, NO ONE CARES ABOUT DK'S LEVEL ON THE LADDER. This so much. Blizzard please try to solve the real issues instead of something that only affect 5-10 Zergs in Korea. You need to make the game more fun and less frustrating not just try to maintain a 50/50 balance for the top 0.1% of the playerbase. - Massive drop in player base whine : based on what? twitch tv figures? (which don't even take proleague in their count btw) or on what source? nios.kr has shut down and rankedftw says there were more people on ladder at the end of last season (205 000) than at the end of the one before (197 000). Where is the massive drop? in OP's wet dreams? http://www.rankedftw.com/stats/population/1v1/#v=1&r=-2&sx=a&sy=cthe last season of HotS had 331000 ranked players, the latest LotV season 205000 ranked players. that's definitely a massive drop in player base. Show nested quote +TvZ terran either wins before late game or dies whine Yeah we were missing that cliche. Oh breaking news : it's totally wrong.
do you watch pro games? terrans very very rarely win in lategame. on ladder it's even worse because of the difficulty of controlling ghost/liberator compared to controlling ultras. Show nested quote +WTF! Just WTF!!! nobody that is playing the game as terran can seriously even remotly think this. You have many styles of bio comp, you have mech, you have sky, you have so many combination of opening, transitions, late game comp, so many options to harass, so many all in and timings. We see new builds poping up every damn week! ??? if you want to go on a rant please inform yourself first about the things you are raging about. I don't agree with all things the guy you responded to said but your post is at least just as false.
100% agree with what you said
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On July 05 2016 08:29 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +TvZ terran either wins before late game or dies whine Yeah we were missing that cliche. Oh breaking news : it's totally wrong.
do you watch pro games? terrans very very rarely win in lategame. on ladder it's even worse because of the difficulty of controlling ghost/liberator compared to controlling ultras.
Well. Zerg almost never survive until lategame anyway, and terrans build are design to kill before it so we almost never see it especially in Korea, since Zerg are less and less played in Proleague and have almost all dropped out of SSL. So indeed, when zerg reaches lategame + 4th base they win most of the very few games that goes at that stage, but it's also because terrans build and game plan are design for a kill before it and thus are not prepared for a late game battle. Pre-liberator AA nerf, when Maru was playing late game from the start in TvZ, he rolled every zerg he played with that style. While weaker since the nerf of the liberator AA, it does not mean that it's an impossible strategy to pull off now.
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On July 05 2016 16:29 Vanadiel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2016 08:29 Charoisaur wrote:TvZ terran either wins before late game or dies whine Yeah we were missing that cliche. Oh breaking news : it's totally wrong.
do you watch pro games? terrans very very rarely win in lategame. on ladder it's even worse because of the difficulty of controlling ghost/liberator compared to controlling ultras. Well. Zerg almost never survive until lategame anyway, and terrans build are design to kill before it so we almost never see it especially in Korea, since Zerg are less and less played in Proleague and have almost all dropped out of SSL. So indeed, when zerg reaches lategame + 4th base they win most of the very few games that goes at that stage, but it's also because terrans build and game plan are design for a kill before it and thus are not prepared for a late game battle. Pre-liberator AA nerf, when Maru was playing late game from the start in TvZ, he rolled every zerg he played with that style. While weaker since the nerf of the liberator AA, it does not mean that it's an impossible strategy to pull off now.
but at foreign level we have seen some terrans playing for the lategame and they got completely destroyed. Also maru played only 2 games with the mass liberator style
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He played two games with this style. Then TY i think tried it and go shreked. Also maru only played it on prion if i recall correctly.
Also, it's now completely dead because mass liberators don't kill mass corruptors anymore. Which is why no pro player does it anymore.
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On July 05 2016 19:04 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2016 16:29 Vanadiel wrote:On July 05 2016 08:29 Charoisaur wrote:TvZ terran either wins before late game or dies whine Yeah we were missing that cliche. Oh breaking news : it's totally wrong.
do you watch pro games? terrans very very rarely win in lategame. on ladder it's even worse because of the difficulty of controlling ghost/liberator compared to controlling ultras. Well. Zerg almost never survive until lategame anyway, and terrans build are design to kill before it so we almost never see it especially in Korea, since Zerg are less and less played in Proleague and have almost all dropped out of SSL. So indeed, when zerg reaches lategame + 4th base they win most of the very few games that goes at that stage, but it's also because terrans build and game plan are design for a kill before it and thus are not prepared for a late game battle. Pre-liberator AA nerf, when Maru was playing late game from the start in TvZ, he rolled every zerg he played with that style. While weaker since the nerf of the liberator AA, it does not mean that it's an impossible strategy to pull off now. but at foreign level we have seen some terrans playing for the lategame and they got completely destroyed. Also maru played only 2 games with the mass liberator style
Those two games weren't even the same style. One was him going bio but not managing to kill his opponent before hive tech. The other was him going sky Terran from the start.
On July 05 2016 19:36 JackONeill wrote:
He played two games with this style. Then TY i think tried it and go shreked. Also maru only played it on prion if i recall correctly.
TY lost one game in Proleague with it because he forgot liberator range. The next time he crushed his opponent. Then he used it in Kung Fu Cup and won all his games against Zerg there, and he used it a bit in the Cross Finals against Dark where he won 1 and lost 1 with it. But yeah, with the liberator AA nerf the style isn't that good anymore.
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On July 05 2016 08:29 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2016 21:26 Gwavajuice wrote:On July 03 2016 23:31 MockHamill wrote:On July 02 2016 06:47 JackONeill wrote:
The massive drop in playerbase means blizz isn't designing the game well, it's not about wether the balance team knows how to play the game. Ravager spamming ability, adept shade meaning they can threaten two mineral lines at once, disruptor being hit or miss BS, liberator doing the tank's job and therefore provoking design issues because it flies, viper's PB, etc...
It's about how easy it is to perform something against how hard it is to react to it. It's easy to siege liberators. It's easy to spamm bile. It's easy to warp adepts, and shade in another mineral line. But it's so much harder to react to it. And because it has a lot to do with worker harass, it's even more frustrating because you can loose so many workers and have no option to come back into the game.
That's the real issues the game faces. That's why TvZ is "either terran wins before late game or he dies". That's why TvP is about bio killing stalkers to prevent them from killing liberators that kill every single protoss unit but the stalker. That's why once protoss cuts the map in PvZ with tempest, canons and HTs, the game is over.
To fix this (even though i know it's pointless to point out the obvious) : rework units that induces very onesided scenarii. Tempest being able to hit from 15 range with revelation, while being extremely massable? It's an issue. Ultras being so cost efficient in TvZ terran has to stay in the air? It's an issue. Tankivac harass being overwhelming and breaking defender's advantage? It's an issue. Liberators sieging mineral lines so easily but the opponent has to spend a lot of APM to defend? It's an issue. Terran being pigeonholed into one comp per matchup? It's an issue.
Work on that. Work on the frustrating BS that make players leave the game. THAT'S THE ISSUES THE GAME FACE, NO ONE CARES ABOUT DK'S LEVEL ON THE LADDER. This so much. Blizzard please try to solve the real issues instead of something that only affect 5-10 Zergs in Korea. You need to make the game more fun and less frustrating not just try to maintain a 50/50 balance for the top 0.1% of the playerbase. TvZ terran either wins before late game or dies whine Yeah we were missing that cliche. Oh breaking news : it's totally wrong.
do you watch pro games? terrans very very rarely win in lategame. on ladder it's even worse because of the difficulty of controlling ghost/liberator compared to controlling ultras.
So terrans wins before late game = terran would loose if they hit late game? are you serious? since when libs are hard to control?
I would link the pro game where Terran wins but I won't bother cause all you'll answer will be "Zerg messed up" or "Terrans was already hugely ahead".
+ Show Spoiler +
So instead I will do the opposite : did you find in SSL, SPL or GSL any game where terran was ahaed and then lost simply because the zerg hit tier 3 and made ultras? - be aware I can be as hypocritical as you, though...
On July 05 2016 08:29 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +WTF! Just WTF!!! nobody that is playing the game as terran can seriously even remotly think this. You have many styles of bio comp, you have mech, you have sky, you have so many combination of opening, transitions, late game comp, so many options to harass, so many all in and timings. We see new builds poping up every damn week! ??? if you want to go on a rant please inform yourself first about the things you are raging about. I don't agree with all things the guy you responded to said but your post is at least just as false.
OK let's go through this :
- In all match ups, bio, mech and sky are viable. You can even go like nathanias and mass cyclone every game 
- now for the builds :
TvT : see TY vs INno, TY vs Maru, and Ryung vs Alive in SPL week 3 and 4 and you'll have almost 6 different builds
TvZ : 2 weeks ago it was 2-1-1 stim drop this week it's 111 naked drop, but of course reaper expand still works wonders
TvP : 2 weeks ago Forte beats Hero with a one base early attack with hellion medivac marines followed by cyclone tanks liberators. This week Maru beats hush with something similar but does one mine instead of hélions and bring scv's to build bunkers. Then Gumiho beats Patience with the same kind of push but on 2 bases which catches Patience totally offguard. But of course you can reaper expand. Or use TY's 2 hellions EB block build. Or steal Gumiho's strat agains MC?
All this games were played in the last 3 weeks, isn't this enough variety for you?
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On July 05 2016 20:36 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2016 08:29 Charoisaur wrote:On July 04 2016 21:26 Gwavajuice wrote:On July 03 2016 23:31 MockHamill wrote:On July 02 2016 06:47 JackONeill wrote:
The massive drop in playerbase means blizz isn't designing the game well, it's not about wether the balance team knows how to play the game. Ravager spamming ability, adept shade meaning they can threaten two mineral lines at once, disruptor being hit or miss BS, liberator doing the tank's job and therefore provoking design issues because it flies, viper's PB, etc...
It's about how easy it is to perform something against how hard it is to react to it. It's easy to siege liberators. It's easy to spamm bile. It's easy to warp adepts, and shade in another mineral line. But it's so much harder to react to it. And because it has a lot to do with worker harass, it's even more frustrating because you can loose so many workers and have no option to come back into the game.
That's the real issues the game faces. That's why TvZ is "either terran wins before late game or he dies". That's why TvP is about bio killing stalkers to prevent them from killing liberators that kill every single protoss unit but the stalker. That's why once protoss cuts the map in PvZ with tempest, canons and HTs, the game is over.
To fix this (even though i know it's pointless to point out the obvious) : rework units that induces very onesided scenarii. Tempest being able to hit from 15 range with revelation, while being extremely massable? It's an issue. Ultras being so cost efficient in TvZ terran has to stay in the air? It's an issue. Tankivac harass being overwhelming and breaking defender's advantage? It's an issue. Liberators sieging mineral lines so easily but the opponent has to spend a lot of APM to defend? It's an issue. Terran being pigeonholed into one comp per matchup? It's an issue.
Work on that. Work on the frustrating BS that make players leave the game. THAT'S THE ISSUES THE GAME FACE, NO ONE CARES ABOUT DK'S LEVEL ON THE LADDER. This so much. Blizzard please try to solve the real issues instead of something that only affect 5-10 Zergs in Korea. You need to make the game more fun and less frustrating not just try to maintain a 50/50 balance for the top 0.1% of the playerbase. TvZ terran either wins before late game or dies whine Yeah we were missing that cliche. Oh breaking news : it's totally wrong.
do you watch pro games? terrans very very rarely win in lategame. on ladder it's even worse because of the difficulty of controlling ghost/liberator compared to controlling ultras. So terrans wins before late game = terran would loose if they hit late game? are you serious? since when libs are hard to control? I would link the pro game where Terran wins but I won't bother cause all you'll answer will be "Zerg messed up" or "Terrans was already hugely ahead". + Show Spoiler +So instead I will do the opposite : did you find in SSL, SPL or GSL any game where terran was ahaed and then lost simply because the zerg hit tier 3 and made ultras? - be aware I can be as hypocritical as you, though...
ok not bothering anymore. If you still think tvz lategame is fine you won't change your opinion no matter what I say.
+ Show Spoiler +for the rest of people INnoVation vs Dark game 5alternatively you can just look at the numerous lategame tvz's we're seeing at foreign level where terrans usually get rolled
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And if you think TvZ lategame is broken you are equally wrong, because it is still an uncharted territory for now, so it's not judicious to draw any definitive conclusion on wether it's balanced or not.
And I was talking about Maru, but Byuun won a lot of games in lategame.
On July 05 2016 19:36 JackONeill wrote:
He played two games with this style. Then TY i think tried it and go shreked. Also maru only played it on prion if i recall correctly.
Also, it's now completely dead because mass liberators don't kill mass corruptors anymore. Which is why no pro player does it anymore.
Oh it's weaker, for sure. Completely dead because it's too weak? I would not be so sure, imagine it's a 50-50, balanced strategy you wouldn't be saying that it's a useless strategy right? But why, at the moment, would anyone play this strategy when the one played most of the time gives you more chance of success?
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On July 05 2016 20:36 Gwavajuice wrote:- In all match ups, bio, mech and sky are viable. You can even go like nathanias and mass cyclone every game
I choked on my coffe in laughter.
Builds and compositions are two different things you know. Every single terran is abusing liberators and tankivacs because it's the only real option. Obviously i've hurt your feelings, but since most of what you "ranted" about was wrong, you seem to be a lost cause.
On July 05 2016 21:07 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2016 20:36 Gwavajuice wrote:On July 05 2016 08:29 Charoisaur wrote:On July 04 2016 21:26 Gwavajuice wrote:On July 03 2016 23:31 MockHamill wrote:On July 02 2016 06:47 JackONeill wrote:
The massive drop in playerbase means blizz isn't designing the game well, it's not about wether the balance team knows how to play the game. Ravager spamming ability, adept shade meaning they can threaten two mineral lines at once, disruptor being hit or miss BS, liberator doing the tank's job and therefore provoking design issues because it flies, viper's PB, etc...
It's about how easy it is to perform something against how hard it is to react to it. It's easy to siege liberators. It's easy to spamm bile. It's easy to warp adepts, and shade in another mineral line. But it's so much harder to react to it. And because it has a lot to do with worker harass, it's even more frustrating because you can loose so many workers and have no option to come back into the game.
That's the real issues the game faces. That's why TvZ is "either terran wins before late game or he dies". That's why TvP is about bio killing stalkers to prevent them from killing liberators that kill every single protoss unit but the stalker. That's why once protoss cuts the map in PvZ with tempest, canons and HTs, the game is over.
To fix this (even though i know it's pointless to point out the obvious) : rework units that induces very onesided scenarii. Tempest being able to hit from 15 range with revelation, while being extremely massable? It's an issue. Ultras being so cost efficient in TvZ terran has to stay in the air? It's an issue. Tankivac harass being overwhelming and breaking defender's advantage? It's an issue. Liberators sieging mineral lines so easily but the opponent has to spend a lot of APM to defend? It's an issue. Terran being pigeonholed into one comp per matchup? It's an issue.
Work on that. Work on the frustrating BS that make players leave the game. THAT'S THE ISSUES THE GAME FACE, NO ONE CARES ABOUT DK'S LEVEL ON THE LADDER. This so much. Blizzard please try to solve the real issues instead of something that only affect 5-10 Zergs in Korea. You need to make the game more fun and less frustrating not just try to maintain a 50/50 balance for the top 0.1% of the playerbase. TvZ terran either wins before late game or dies whine Yeah we were missing that cliche. Oh breaking news : it's totally wrong.
do you watch pro games? terrans very very rarely win in lategame. on ladder it's even worse because of the difficulty of controlling ghost/liberator compared to controlling ultras. So terrans wins before late game = terran would loose if they hit late game? are you serious? since when libs are hard to control? I would link the pro game where Terran wins but I won't bother cause all you'll answer will be "Zerg messed up" or "Terrans was already hugely ahead". + Show Spoiler +So instead I will do the opposite : did you find in SSL, SPL or GSL any game where terran was ahaed and then lost simply because the zerg hit tier 3 and made ultras? - be aware I can be as hypocritical as you, though... ok not bothering anymore. If you still think tvz lategame is fine you won't change your opinion no matter what I say. + Show Spoiler +for the rest of people INnoVation vs Dark game 5alternatively you can just look at the numerous lategame tvz's we're seeing at foreign level where terrans usually get rolled
Yeah TvZ is imba in KR because terrans manage to deal way too much damage mid game, however this means that they have to commit so much to agression that they die whenver zerg manages to secure T3/4bases. One could argue that if terrans reduced agression and went for more macro gamestyles they'd be able to deal with Z lategame, but if you don't commit a lot to agression you'll die anyway because zerg lategame still is overwhelming.
It's really not about balance, it's about game design. Terran having to kill zerg before T3 with abusive harass tools while zerg turtles and waits for T3 isn't fun
On July 05 2016 21:33 Vanadiel wrote:And if you think TvZ lategame is broken you are equally wrong, because it is still an uncharted territory for now, so it's not judicious to draw any definitive conclusion on wether it's balanced or not. And I was talking about Maru, but Byuun won a lot of games in lategame. Show nested quote +On July 05 2016 19:36 JackONeill wrote:
He played two games with this style. Then TY i think tried it and go shreked. Also maru only played it on prion if i recall correctly.
Also, it's now completely dead because mass liberators don't kill mass corruptors anymore. Which is why no pro player does it anymore. Oh it's weaker, for sure. Completely dead because it's too weak? I would not be so sure, imagine it's a 50-50, balanced strategy you wouldn't be saying that it's a useless strategy right? But why, at the moment, would anyone play this strategy when the one played most of the time gives you more chance of success?
I dunno : because it's kind of a 2 SP banshee build (sort of), if you surprise the zerg of course you'll be able to snowball with banshee/liberators. However, since zergs tend to research pneumatic more and more, I don't think you can hide it.
Tried it on ladder a few times, if you go for some kind of harass (Cure's reac hellion reac SP build for instance), then switch into 3 SPs, it's kinda strong.
Also, thor and cyclone buffs may help this kind of compositions.But I really don't see it working on equal economy "straight up" macro game. If terran typed in chat "i'm going for this", zerg would just pop 10 corruptors and kill terran with an endless stream of roaches.
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they should rework the adept shade, the actual one is boring and pointless.
i would remove and replace it by a new skill which allow adepts to gain inmunity and speed for about 5 seconds. that way they cant trick you with the fake shade movement and they will take some risk if they move through your entire army or base.
obviously they could not attack while using this skill.
this is a lot better for the game than the actual shade.
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On July 05 2016 21:41 coolmiyo wrote:
they should rework the adept shade, the actual one is boring and pointless.
i would remove and replace it by a new skill which allow adepts to gain inmunity and speed for about 5 seconds. that way they cant trick you with the fake shade movement and they will take some risk if they move through your entire army or base.
obviously they could not attack while using this skill.
this is a lot better for the game than the actual shade.
I think that making Adepts interesting was not that hard.
First of all, their "shade" ability is borderline broken in terms of early game harass, the option you proposed feels better to me.
If they wanted to create a harass-friendly unit, I think that they could have given some passive bonus to their attack so they get extra bonus and range if they don't attack for some seconds, making adepts very good at poking around vs early game units, still micro friendly. Shade is not that bad in the mid-lategame, even if its kinda boring.
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I don't really know if the main issue with adept shade is design related, or "easiness of execution" related.
What I mean is that just like with liberators, it's so easy to warp adepts in a mineral line, and send shades into the next mineral line. It's extremly easy, just like sieging a liberator onto a mineral line is also very easy.
However, both force a very APM heavy reaction. Running after adepts with bio or roaches, or shooing away a liberator requires a huge amount of attention, and even then, you still can end up eating a lot of damage even with an overall good reaction.
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Remember the last time Blizzard ignored the concerns of the player-base and buffed Queens back in Wings of Liberty?
It singlehandedly broke the meta, made every ZvX game a virtually unstoppable 14 minute eco-rush to Tier 3 Brood Lord Infestor comps, and launched the pro gamer careers of XLorD, Ziktomini and JonnyRecco.
In fact, after the Patch 1.4.3 Balance Update, I'm really surprised David Kim is still working at Blizzard on the same team to this day.
It actually baffles me that Blizzard are putting legit concerns like Tankivacs and +2 armor Ultralisks into the trash and focusing on nonsensical changes like "giving queens increased AA attack range."
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On July 05 2016 21:39 JackONeill wrote:
I dunno : because it's kind of a 2 SP banshee build (sort of), if you surprise the zerg of course you'll be able to snowball with banshee/liberators. However, since zergs tend to research pneumatic more and more, I don't think you can hide it.
Tried it on ladder a few times, if you go for some kind of harass (Cure's reac hellion reac SP build for instance), then switch into 3 SPs, it's kinda strong.
Also, thor and cyclone buffs may help this kind of compositions.But I really don't see it working on equal economy "straight up" macro game. If terran typed in chat "i'm going for this", zerg would just pop 10 corruptors and kill terran with an endless stream of roaches.
I don't know either, I'm still questioning. For now there are not a lot of reasons for pro to try them, maybe when we'll get deeper in GSL/SSL in BO5/7 some terran will try them to be less predictable (assuming there are still zerg at that stage :p ) , still I'd guess that should be very map dependent too.
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On July 05 2016 21:41 coolmiyo wrote:
i would remove and replace it by a new skill
Why? I just don't get this mentality. Why must it have an ability?
Why not just give it faster movement speed (or even an upgrade for faster movement speed)? We'll never see things like in-combat surrounds / splits from Protoss if they never get the tools to effectively do these things.
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On July 05 2016 23:10 Edowyth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2016 21:41 coolmiyo wrote:
i would remove and replace it by a new skill Why? I just don't get this mentality. Why must it have an ability? Why not just give it faster movement speed (or even an upgrade for faster movement speed)? We'll never see things like in-combat surrounds / splits from Protoss if they never get the tools to effectively do these things.
david will not delete the skill ever.
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Why do people compare this Queen buff to the WoL one? This is not about making Queens able to easily defend against all harrassment (like they did in WoL as the only T harrass were Hellions...).
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EPT
