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On June 12 2016 00:13 Diabolique wrote:
What about increasing the larvae, but not from 3 to 4, but to some ~3.5 through decreasing energy needed and cooldown? So it would be still 3 larvas, but they would be available after 25 s (instead of 29 s), and would need just 20-21 energy (instead of 25)?
On June 12 2016 00:39 Teoita wrote:
Something like that would be much more reasonable and easy to tune.
+1
yea
it is a good idea. using this thinking the # of larva is a continuous variable rather than a discreet variable.
On June 11 2016 15:42 Ranari wrote:
I watch a lot of SC2 and I don't see Terran OP at all. If anything though, please make mech viable, and I'm not even one of those guys that just wants to see Mech made viable 'cause I have a crush on loving me some mech. I just grow tired of watching MMM being the dominant composition for 3 released in a row (WoL, HotS, and now Lotv). I'd like me some variety to watch!
you should acknowledge that its hard to take your 9 posts seriously when all you talk about are siege tanks. On the odd occasion when my views somewhat align with avilo's its much more credible. I requested a very general thing: weaker Terran air and stronger Terran ground. To some degree this aligned with his constant evangelizing of mech. Whereas, you are pretty much parroting his views.
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On June 12 2016 01:05 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2016 00:13 Diabolique wrote:
What about increasing the larvae, but not from 3 to 4, but to some ~3.5 through decreasing energy needed and cooldown? So it would be still 3 larvas, but they would be available after 25 s (instead of 29 s), and would need just 20-21 energy (instead of 25)? Show nested quote +On June 12 2016 00:39 Teoita wrote:
Something like that would be much more reasonable and easy to tune. +1 yea it is a good idea. using this thinking the # of larva is a continuous variable rather than a discreet variable.
You'd need quite some time to test the results, though. It would take weeks, if not months, for a large volume of people to get really good at injecting again, if you change the cooldown. Good injecting is a subliminal thing. I am not any good in SC2, but even I now get a pretty reliable twitch "I should be injecting any second" without looking at any external source of time and that takes a while to change. Until then, the results will be too unstable to judge the impact.
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Increasing larvas seems insane... Zerg production is already good with auto injects queue and faster creep spread. Like people are saying, if production is an issue just add a macro hatch after your 3rd... it's already cheaper at 300 mines instead of 400 so why not..? Also, I can't imagine how silly the early game all-ins with banes bust/ drop and ravagers would be with more larvas... Zerg would also easily out macro the other races in worker count and would overpower too quickly if left alone...
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On June 12 2016 01:10 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2016 01:05 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On June 12 2016 00:13 Diabolique wrote:
What about increasing the larvae, but not from 3 to 4, but to some ~3.5 through decreasing energy needed and cooldown? So it would be still 3 larvas, but they would be available after 25 s (instead of 29 s), and would need just 20-21 energy (instead of 25)? On June 12 2016 00:39 Teoita wrote:
Something like that would be much more reasonable and easy to tune. +1 yea it is a good idea. using this thinking the # of larva is a continuous variable rather than a discreet variable. You'd need quite some time to test the results, though. It would take weeks, if not months, for a large volume of people to get really good at injecting again, if you change the cooldown. Good injecting is a subliminal thing. I am not any good in SC2, but even I now get a pretty reliable twitch "I should be injecting any second" without looking at any external source of time and that takes a while to change. Until then, the results will be too unstable to judge the impact.
good point.
what you can do is alter the # of larva that pop out in the following way.
lets assume 0<x<1 ,
<<inject>>
3+x , because x<1 you hold that in the bank for the next inject.
<<inject>>
3+x+x
if 2x>1 then pump out an additional larva. and we have x-1 larva in bank waiting for the next inject.
this allows Zerg players to maintain their timing and every inject either results in 3 or 4 larva popping out.
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How about keep larva injection for hatchery at 3, but 4 for lair and more for hive?
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On June 12 2016 01:26 pzlama333 wrote:
How about keep larva injection for hatchery at 3, but 4 for lair and more for hive?
i think the big complaint is that Zerg is weak early game. This doesn't help it if the problem is early game zerg being too weak.
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On June 12 2016 01:13 MaxTa wrote:
Increasing larvas seems insane... Zerg production is already good with auto injects queue and faster creep spread. Like people are saying, if production is an issue just add a macro hatch after your 3rd... it's already cheaper at 300 mines instead of 400 so why not..? Also, I can't imagine how silly the early game all-ins with banes bust/ drop and ravagers would be with more larvas... Zerg would also easily out macro the other races in worker count and would overpower too quickly if left alone...
its 350 mins (including the drone) but nvm. i dont see really many pros nowadays build macrohatches. tbh, i dont know why.
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On June 12 2016 01:26 pzlama333 wrote:
How about keep larva injection for hatchery at 3, but 4 for lair and more for hive?
Problem with this is that Zerg is very powerful at Hive tech and very....fragile, not weak or UP or anything, just very fragile in the early game.
The larvae buff is asinine, I think an easier solution is just to make Queens a slight bit tougher, either give them a very slight damage buff or maybe give them +1 armor naturally, maybe a slight speed boost on creep even. I think making the stock base defense will allow Zergs to not just die to early game attacks so easily and they will still be hilariously weak in the later stages of the game.
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Feels like there is something unjustified in the reasoning here on what the long term plan is. For me, I'd prefer an upgrade so that you are choosing between more queens, ranged, and melee styles as a sort of round robin of build ideas, with the cores being defensive queens, ravager den upgrade, a spawning pool upgrade, drops, and spire units. Maybe the long term plan is with a larvae buff we'll see zergling/ravager/lurker/ultra nerfs. Seems like something unsaid about the styles players are playing and the goals of the buff, with the optimal style not being the one preferred in the racial design. Doesn't fix the difficulty in scouting zerg plans, nor stability in the matchup.
Aside, I notice a lot of the feedback is coming from zerg pros, with little representation from terran and protoss pros.
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Italy12248 Posts
On June 12 2016 02:09 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2016 01:26 pzlama333 wrote:
How about keep larva injection for hatchery at 3, but 4 for lair and more for hive? Problem with this is that Zerg is very powerful at Hive tech and very....fragile, not weak or UP or anything, just very fragile in the early game. The larvae buff is asinine, I think an easier solution is just to make Queens a slight bit tougher, either give them a very slight damage buff or maybe give them +1 armor naturally, maybe a slight speed boost on creep even. I think making the stock base defense will allow Zergs to not just die to early game attacks so easily and they will still be hilariously weak in the later stages of the game.
I strongly disagree with this notion that Zerg is somehow fragile to early game allins, we aren't in 2010 anymore and Zergs don't die all the time to random all-ins that they barely miss scouting. Zerg may well have problems in the midgame vs Terran and lategame vs Protoss, but i think their early game is just fine.
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How about giving Zerg one of two Larva more at the start of the game. Than they have sooner more income and afford Units of tech sooner as this snowballs quite hard
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If Nerchio say that like give more time to ZVT, I think it is fine. But Snute recently either in steam or in matches performance very badly in ZVT, I don't know why Snute has confident to say that. I think Snute should try some time play games with Kaspa players.
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On June 11 2016 04:36 Seeker wrote:
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GET A TVP UPDATE?!!?!?!?
I find your passion out of era.
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On June 12 2016 02:09 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2016 01:26 pzlama333 wrote:
How about keep larva injection for hatchery at 3, but 4 for lair and more for hive? The larvae buff is asinine, I think an easier solution is just to make Queens a slight bit tougher, either give them a very slight damage buff or maybe give them +1 armor naturally, maybe a slight speed boost on creep even. I think making the stock base defense will allow Zergs to not just die to early game attacks so easily and they will still be hilariously weak in the later stages of the game.
We do not need a repeat of patch 1.4.3BU.
People need to remember what happened to the game when an extremely powerful late game became almost trivial to reach.
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On June 12 2016 04:47 TheWinks wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2016 02:09 Beelzebub1 wrote:On June 12 2016 01:26 pzlama333 wrote:
How about keep larva injection for hatchery at 3, but 4 for lair and more for hive? The larvae buff is asinine, I think an easier solution is just to make Queens a slight bit tougher, either give them a very slight damage buff or maybe give them +1 armor naturally, maybe a slight speed boost on creep even. I think making the stock base defense will allow Zergs to not just die to early game attacks so easily and they will still be hilariously weak in the later stages of the game. We do not need a repeat of patch 1.4.3BU. People need to remember what happened to the game when an extremely powerful late game became almost trivial to reach.
I agree that we don´t wan´t to see another blink stalker era 
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On June 11 2016 04:36 Seeker wrote:
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GET A TVP UPDATE?!!?!?!?
Didn't we already? I mean the MU is basically the same damn thing since 2010 but at least we have LIBERATORS NOW!!
Oh boy ain't that exiting?
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On June 12 2016 03:09 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2016 02:09 Beelzebub1 wrote:On June 12 2016 01:26 pzlama333 wrote:
How about keep larva injection for hatchery at 3, but 4 for lair and more for hive? Problem with this is that Zerg is very powerful at Hive tech and very....fragile, not weak or UP or anything, just very fragile in the early game. The larvae buff is asinine, I think an easier solution is just to make Queens a slight bit tougher, either give them a very slight damage buff or maybe give them +1 armor naturally, maybe a slight speed boost on creep even. I think making the stock base defense will allow Zergs to not just die to early game attacks so easily and they will still be hilariously weak in the later stages of the game. I strongly disagree with this notion that Zerg is somehow fragile to early game allins, we aren't in 2010 anymore and Zergs don't die all the time to random all-ins that they barely miss scouting. Zerg may well have problems in the midgame vs Terran and lategame vs Protoss, but i think their early game is just fine.
only because we open overlord speed every game in zvp and zvt (which is very expensive for how early you need to get it)
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Who are these Zerg Kespa pros and why are they clueless?
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Italy12248 Posts
On June 12 2016 05:36 Scarlett` wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2016 03:09 Teoita wrote:On June 12 2016 02:09 Beelzebub1 wrote:On June 12 2016 01:26 pzlama333 wrote:
How about keep larva injection for hatchery at 3, but 4 for lair and more for hive? Problem with this is that Zerg is very powerful at Hive tech and very....fragile, not weak or UP or anything, just very fragile in the early game. The larvae buff is asinine, I think an easier solution is just to make Queens a slight bit tougher, either give them a very slight damage buff or maybe give them +1 armor naturally, maybe a slight speed boost on creep even. I think making the stock base defense will allow Zergs to not just die to early game attacks so easily and they will still be hilariously weak in the later stages of the game. I strongly disagree with this notion that Zerg is somehow fragile to early game allins, we aren't in 2010 anymore and Zergs don't die all the time to random all-ins that they barely miss scouting. Zerg may well have problems in the midgame vs Terran and lategame vs Protoss, but i think their early game is just fine. only because we open overlord speed every game in zvp and zvt (which is very expensive for how early you need to get it)
Then why do they start changing the cost of that?
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On June 12 2016 05:02 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 04:36 Seeker wrote:
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GET A TVP UPDATE?!!?!?!? Didn't we already? I mean the MU is basically the same damn thing since 2010 but at least we have LIBERATORS NOW!! Oh boy ain't that exiting?
but protoss got ADEPTS!11!111
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EPT
