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Cyro
United Kingdom20340 Posts
On June 12 2016 05:48 Teoita wrote: Then why do they start changing the cost of that? I think it's pretty crazy to have overlord speed on hatch tech, one of the most overlooked changes in LOTV. It does cost 100/100 but it's a huge thing - if it wasn't so good, people wouldn't get it. If anything, i think that base overlord speed could be changed for LOTV rather than making it a 50/50 upgrade that everybody got on hatch tech. | ||
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Exquisite7
34 Posts
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washikie
United States752 Posts
On June 12 2016 11:39 Exquisite7 wrote: There is a very simple solution to this. Let the 4 larva buff happen and nerf the inject stacking. Thats what it was before and no one ever had a problem with that. The reason why Korean Zerg is struggling vs Terran is because at the top level they were always hitting their injects on time. They didn't need to stack their injects. The original change greatly reduced the amount of larva a top player can produce. Maybe instead of having inject stacking we could have a faster cast rate for injects or even a slightly longer range. Something small to not be able to tip the balances too far. Except that no one had a problem with mules or chrono before yet both of those mechanics were nerfed. If they returned larva to 4 that would be similar to giving Terran back old mule or p back old chrono. Can you imagine if either of those mechanics were to have made it into lotv while the others were nerfed? | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3503 Posts
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ejozl
Denmark3510 Posts
-boring units (Hellbats/Tempests) -quality of life (Chrono Boost change to make it similar to Larvae Inject) -Mutalisk lopsided affair (without the appropriate counters, this unit reigns supreme, but with the counters in place, they lose all value.) -Frustrating units (Oracle, Medivac Boost) -Tankivacs (fix TvT and identity) -Making cool interactions: For instance Lurker vs Bio, right now it's not something we see. If perhaps Lurkers did 30 damage to all types, but the Spikes had more delay, after the attack, we could see more cool micro. | ||
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
Blizz really has no clue. I also think asking Korean Pro players always sounds so good but those players are the ones that have the most to gain or lose with any changes. In general player feedback is always going to be biased. Just make the game fun, the units cool, and then give it time and things can balance on their own. But with so many bad units and poor design they are constantly looking to patch the game because the players lack the tools(units) to be creative. There is no meta development just a perpetual patching process that lacks because the units in the game are so one dimensional or useless. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
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MaxTa
61 Posts
TERRAN Siege Tank: give +10 or +15 damage bonus agaisn't protoss shield, remove tankivacs Medivacs: Increase energy cost for healing bio Liberators: Increase supply to 4 OR radius nerf Cyclone: Lower cost to 150/75/2, increase hp to 150 ZERG Ravager: Increase morph time to 20s (instead of 9s hots time) Lurker: Reduce range to 8 Ultra: back to 6 armor in total (instead of 8) Nydus: remove invulnerability, lower cost to 150/50 PROTOSS Warp Prism: Increase cost to 200/100 OR nerf range pickup Sentry: Lower cost to 50/75/2 Phenix: Reduce move speed to 5.5 (instead of 5.95) OR increase creation time to 35s (instead of 25s hots time) Tempest: Increase to 6 supply cost | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On June 12 2016 21:11 [PkF] Wire wrote: I think it's quite clear in their post they received the feedback of some KR pros about the potential larva buff but are skeptical about it since they're aware of the fact it could have a huge impact on the overall game. So let's not get too carried over here. The fact that they're considering it at all is a huge warning sign, especially because they're doing this in response to talking with a handful of unknown pro players that pretty clearly don't have the interests of the game at heart. And then that's the only balance related thing they posted this week too. It feels like it's trying to push the community into accepting a very large zerg buff when the reality on the ground doesn't justify one. Don't be surprised next week when they push a less extreme buff as a 'compromise' when they haven't even made the case that zerg even needs a buff in the first place. And where's the cyclone fix? | ||
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mCon.Hephaistas
Netherlands891 Posts
On June 12 2016 18:18 washikie wrote: Except that no one had a problem with mules or chrono before yet both of those mechanics were nerfed. If they returned larva to 4 that would be similar to giving Terran back old mule or p back old chrono. Can you imagine if either of those mechanics were to have made it into lotv while the others were nerfed? Ur right, but yet somehow zerg got a way bigger nerf in their mechanics then Terran and Toss got, Zerg injects has a big effect on all eco and production. Yet everyone seemed fine with that. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20340 Posts
Phenix: Reduce move speed to 5.5 (instead of 5.95), increase creation time to 35s (instead of 25s hots time) That would make them have a 0.1 speed disadvantage instead of a 0.35 advantage over Mutalisks. That alone would be a massive change without making them take 1.4x longer to build. You'd just be making the game more about P losing if you don't have enough stargates to handle muta switch rather than actually improving muta v phoenix/protoss interactions (i think the way to go there is more accessible softer counters like improved stalker AA-vs-light, meanwhile nerfing the harder counters like phoenix and liberator AA-light-splash) Ur right, but yet somehow zerg got a way bigger nerf in their mechanics then Terran and Toss got Chrono boost effectiveness (in terms of seconds saved per minute) was nerfed by about 1.45x IIRC while also being changed so that you cannot stack or pool the effects any more which was very important for chrono before LOTV. Chrono also takes effect at 0 seconds (unlike the macro mechanics of the other races) which is a big part of its strength. I think that you're underestimating the power of unnerfed chrono here | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On June 13 2016 00:34 MaxTa wrote: Some suggestions: TERRAN Siege Tank: give +10 or +15 damage bonus agaisn't protoss shield, remove tankivacs Medivacs: Increase energy cost for healing bio Liberators: Increase supply to 4, radius nerf Cyclone: Lower cost to 150/75/2, increase hp to 150 ZERG Ravager: Increase morph time to 20s (instead of 9s hots time) Lurker: Reduce range to 8 Ultra: back to 6 armor in total (instead of 8) Nydus: remove invulnerability, lower cost to 150/50 PROTOSS Warp Prism: Increase cost to 200/100, nerf range pickup Sentry: Lower cost to 50/75/2 Phenix: Reduce move speed to 5.5 (instead of 5.95), increase creation time to 35s (instead of 25s hots time) Tempest: Increase to 6 supply cost I don't understand the P suggestions. 1/ Warp prism : increase cost OR remove range, not both 2/ 50/72 sentry is OP 3/ phoenix would not even do well vs mutas with that Only 4 makes sense. Overall I think that's far too many changes for a game that is not so bad currently. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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Exquisite7
34 Posts
On June 12 2016 18:18 washikie wrote: Except that no one had a problem with mules or chrono before yet both of those mechanics were nerfed. If they returned larva to 4 that would be similar to giving Terran back old mule or p back old chrono. Can you imagine if either of those mechanics were to have made it into lotv while the others were nerfed? I think you're missing the point though. The inject stacking was supposed to be a way of balancing the fact that larva count went down from 4 to 3. However at the highest level inject stacking isn't even needed. Therefore Korean Zerg only ever got a nerf in lotv. And there are always other options to increase the rate that Zerg can produce larva at an equal rate in ZvT such as decreasing the spawn time for larva and decreasing the energy cost but keeping it at 3. Or even trying to increase cost of energy and spawn time with 4 larva rate. | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On June 13 2016 03:41 [PkF] Wire wrote: I don't understand the P suggestions. 1/ Warp prism : increase cost OR remove range, not both 2/ 50/72 sentry is OP 3/ phoenix would not even do well vs mutas with that Only 4 makes sense. Overall I think that's far too many changes for a game that is not so bad currently. TBH the Tempest change is the only one that makes sense. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5224 Posts
On June 11 2016 04:12 Teoita wrote: The larva change is a really stupid idea. If you aren't sure a change is needed (and imo in this case it isn't), don't make a massive and potentially game breaking one... They aren't free, but Zergs aren't losing because they lack unit production in the early game, so i don't see what 4 larvae per hatch does that a macro hatch doesn't, except making Zerg revolve entirely too much around hitting perfect injects which a lot of people dislike. You can stack injects very easily now. You can even shift click queue them up. | ||
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Pugfarmer
70 Posts
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MaxTa
61 Posts
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MaxTa
61 Posts
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MaxTa
61 Posts
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