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On June 13 2016 05:34 MaxTa wrote:
I'm suggesting tons of changes, of course I would not apply all of them at once... common sense guys... This OR That... Phoenix speed nerf OR creation time nerf, Warp Prism higher cost OR drop range nerf... Pick your bet
This is the SC2 community, don't ask for common sense, also I agree with most of your changes.
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
On June 13 2016 05:38 MaxTa wrote:
And Pheonix are op, hell you don't even need their range upgrade at this point they just trash almost any air and ground unit... Actually airtoss is OP and has been for a long time and needs a nerf badly...
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On June 13 2016 06:02 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 05:38 MaxTa wrote:
And Pheonix are op, hell you don't even need their range upgrade at this point they just trash almost any air and ground unit... Actually airtoss is OP and has been for a long time and needs a nerf badly...
I don't get it either
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It's simple, I think the big correction P needs is on stargate basically... Terran I would say Bio/Libs nerf with siege tank buff... And then, Zerg would at least need Ultra nerf...
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Why should bio-lib be nerfed? It's a beautiful style, the positional play of tank-based mech combined with the multitasking and micro of bio.
LotV TvP in particular is a pleasure to watch at the highest levels. Watching an S-tier terran like Ty pushing across the map by leapfrogging liberators and mines, while poking with ghosts and sending out drops to harass and gain map control is amazing.
I'd love it if more terran units were viable, but not at the expense of killing bio-lib.
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The shade ability of the adept needs to be taken a look at. One of the fundamental principles of a RTS game is positioning (with good position, you can win or hold out against a larger stronger force). In other words, learning how to position your army is what makes the "strategy" component of the game there. However adepts completely ignore this principle with their shade ability. Any sort of formation or positional advantage the enemy player has becomes completely useless since the adept can just nullify it with one click.
Blizzard needs to increase the cooldown of the shade ability and/or make it so that the shades themselves are attackable. For similar reasons, the warp prism pickup radius and stalker blink also needs to be taken another look at. Abilities that decrease the importance of positioning are bad for gameplay in general.
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Years later the forums look the game :D
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Why should bio-lib be nerfed? It's a beautiful style, the positional play of tank-based mech combined with the multitasking and micro of bio.
LotV TvP in particular is a pleasure to watch at the highest levels. Watching an S-tier terran like Ty pushing across the map by leapfrogging liberators and mines, while poking with ghosts and sending out drops to harass and gain map control is amazing.
I'd love it if more terran units were viable, but not at the expense of killing bio-lib.
Well... Not really... We have all seen beautiful Bio/drop and mines positioning for 5 years now and honestly, I think it's not that amazing now, don't know where you've been all that time ^^ And did you mention tank based army ? Rofl ?? It's not because we see 2-3 tankivacs during whole game that tanks are back...
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On June 13 2016 12:01 MaxTa wrote:Show nested quote +Why should bio-lib be nerfed? It's a beautiful style, the positional play of tank-based mech combined with the multitasking and micro of bio.
LotV TvP in particular is a pleasure to watch at the highest levels. Watching an S-tier terran like Ty pushing across the map by leapfrogging liberators and mines, while poking with ghosts and sending out drops to harass and gain map control is amazing.
I'd love it if more terran units were viable, but not at the expense of killing bio-lib. Well... Not really... We have all seen beautiful Bio/drop and mines positioning for 5 years now and honestly, I think it's not that amazing now, don't know where you've been all that time ^^
I don't know don't know what bio play you've been watching all this time, but it certainly wasn't what we see today. Bio has never had a hard zone-control unit like the liberator to complement it (WOL marine-tank came closest, but tanks were always too weak to do the job properly).
And did you mention tank based army ? Rofl ?? It's not because we see 2-3 tankivacs during whole game that tanks are back...
I never said that "tanks are back". In the future, please read what I actually write instead of making things up.
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
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Nice to see that everyone thinks he would do better in terms of balancing changes than blizz....kind of ridiculous xD
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My ideas for the liberator and to try and help zerg early game 
Liberator: Change AG damage from 85 to 79+15 to massive. Makes it quite better against Archons and Colossus (from 5 to 4 shots), Ultras and Thors. Before the first attack upgrade, it’s a serious nerf against hydras (2 shots) and stalkers (3). Becomes slightly worse against everything else that it doesn’t one shot, but the rest of important interactions should remain unchanged since it still two shots zealots/adepts/roaches/ravagers and 3 shots queens. Also Terran lacks a unit with bonus vs massive.
Baneling Nest: Slightly reduce building time and/or reduce baneling speed upgrade cost to 100/100. Banelings are pretty good at defending against terran bio and adepts afaik. Maybe making them more accessible and earlier could help zergs early game?
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TvZ has usually had some unit like this going all the way back to marine tank medivac WOL
Mines can control space to an extent, but not like liberators. Their attack is too easily baited out, their range is too short, and their cooldown is too long to be a true deterrent.
Like I said, WoL marine-tank is the closest thing to what I'm talking about, but tanks were never up to the job (and they were totally unviable in TvP outside of timings). Instead of locking down areas of the map, tanks were used for splash support against banelings, and to siege buildings to force the zerg into engaging into a bad position or earlier than they would want to.
Edit: This is ignoring TvT. WoL and HotS TvT have always had this heavy emphasis on positional play because tanks were always good at blowing up bio. But you never really saw that dynamic in the non-mirrors until LotV.
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On June 13 2016 16:46 Salteador Neo wrote:My ideas for the liberator and to try and help zerg early game Liberator: Change AG damage from 85 to 79+15 to massive. Makes it quite better against Archons and Colossus (from 5 to 4 shots), Ultras and Thors. Before the first attack upgrade, it’s a serious nerf against hydras (2 shots) and stalkers (3). Becomes slightly worse against everything else that it doesn’t one shot, but the rest of important interactions should remain unchanged since it still two shots zealots/adepts/roaches/ravagers and 3 shots queens. Also Terran lacks a unit with bonus vs massive. Baneling Nest: Slightly reduce building time and/or reduce baneling speed upgrade cost to 100/100. Banelings are pretty good at defending against terran bio and adepts afaik. Maybe making them more accessible and earlier could help zergs early game?
wouldnt change anything. hydras are just crap against terran. it doesnt matter, if libs need 1,2 or more shots to kill hydra, because they get just rekt by tanks. its rly hard, to make hydras playabe in zvt. only thing i could imagine would be a hp buff, but that would affect zvp and zvz also.
and banenest. no. just no! its fine as it is. the zerg has to scout, if an adept allin etc is coming, then you have enough time for a banenest or even roaches. a faster banenest would just make zvz into a ling bane allin only matchup.
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On June 13 2016 10:57 Loccstana wrote:
The shade ability of the adept needs to be taken a look at. One of the fundamental principles of a RTS game is positioning (with good position, you can win or hold out against a larger stronger force). In other words, learning how to position your army is what makes the "strategy" component of the game there. However adepts completely ignore this principle with their shade ability. Any sort of formation or positional advantage the enemy player has becomes completely useless since the adept can just nullify it with one click.
Blizzard needs to increase the cooldown of the shade ability and/or make it so that the shades themselves are attackable. For similar reasons, the warp prism pickup radius and stalker blink also needs to be taken another look at. Abilities that decrease the importance of positioning are bad for gameplay in general.
What about making it a bit like Recall, so the last second before they appear, they can be shot, but cannot shoot or move.
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I feel like the early terran pushes are too strong, specialy when they can abuse the map with tankiavacs.
Also the endeless stream of marines from 3 bases is really hard to deal with. Once your banes are gone you have no time to morph more, and lings are garbage.
Keep in mind that i play ling bane muta, so i'm not sure how roach ravager players feel about the balance.
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Only thing i can think of that needs changing for zerg is either Queen AA armored buff slightly, or fit the swarmhost better in the meta.. nerf locus damage and give them the free extended time upgrade.
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On June 13 2016 05:18 Pugfarmer wrote:
Just make the change in Korea only. If the rest of the world catches up, you can make it global then.
Yes, and make it global at a WCS global event. There is one expected soon ...
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On June 13 2016 21:00 ejozl wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 10:57 Loccstana wrote:
The shade ability of the adept needs to be taken a look at. One of the fundamental principles of a RTS game is positioning (with good position, you can win or hold out against a larger stronger force). In other words, learning how to position your army is what makes the "strategy" component of the game there. However adepts completely ignore this principle with their shade ability. Any sort of formation or positional advantage the enemy player has becomes completely useless since the adept can just nullify it with one click.
Blizzard needs to increase the cooldown of the shade ability and/or make it so that the shades themselves are attackable. For similar reasons, the warp prism pickup radius and stalker blink also needs to be taken another look at. Abilities that decrease the importance of positioning are bad for gameplay in general. What about making it a bit like Recall, so the last second before they appear, they can be shot, but cannot shoot or move. And shade right in the middle of the Tanks to cause massive friendly fire... yeah.
Adept's shade being targetable is not the anwser.
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Remove mothership core. Profit.
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EPT
