EPTCommunity Feedback Update - June 10 - Page 8
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
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Ranari
19 Posts
If anything though, please make mech viable, and I'm not even one of those guys that just wants to see Mech made viable 'cause I have a crush on loving me some mech. I just grow tired of watching MMM being the dominant composition for 3 released in a row (WoL, HotS, and now Lotv). I'd like me some variety to watch! | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On June 11 2016 15:39 Topdoller wrote: Just buff the lurker with +1 Armour, it useless against Terran at the moment I don't think that would change anything in Korea. The lurker den takes long enough to finish that the Zerg can just die beforehand. And after that it's just another buff to late game which they honestly don't need in ZvT. | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1387 Posts
On June 11 2016 15:42 Ranari wrote: I watch a lot of SC2 and I don't see Terran OP at all. If anything though, please make mech viable, and I'm not even one of those guys that just wants to see Mech made viable 'cause I have a crush on loving me some mech. I just grow tired of watching MMM being the dominant composition for 3 released in a row (WoL, HotS, and now Lotv). I'd like me some variety to watch! Blizzard said they didnt want to see the bio parades anymore, so they nerfed the maruader and buffed the ultralisk. What do we get as result: Still bio pushes with a (bio unit) ghost to counter the counter to bio. But the biggest change is ofcourse the liberator. Every game the same builds, every game we see the same units, i dont even watch Tournaments anymore with terrans in it, or watch tournaments at all. And im not the only one, people are bored of it, views for streamers and tournaments are going down rapidly. | ||
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oGsChess
23 Posts
It might be too big of a buff in the end, but it is certainly worth the try since the high level Zerg are struggling so much in either early game of both ZvP and ZvT. | ||
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mCon.Hephaistas
Netherlands891 Posts
On June 11 2016 17:54 oGsChess wrote: Honestly, as a GM Terran player, all I need is to look at statistics, watch GSL, SSL and proleague to notice that in the highest level of play, Zerg is very unfavored in either matchup in a straight up macro game and I believe that's due to the early game weakness of Zerg. Analyse LotV games and the drone count at the start and compare it to how it was in HotS and Wings, I believe Zerg needs it - Another issue is the Protoss chrono boost, I've recently seen mathematics that proove that the chrono in LotV is actually a buff compared to the one in HotS - in addition Protoss can now always afford a super early third base - were these eco changes really appropriate? It might be too big of a buff in the end, but it is certainly worth the try since the high level Zerg are struggling so much in either early game of both ZvP and ZvT. I think you are right, early game economy of Zerg got a big hit when compared to Terran and Toss in LotV. This got mostly masked due to the fact that Zerg also got a lot of new early game aggressive options and midgame timings with the new units, but now that it basicly got figured out Zerg has a hard time. Drone losses due to harrasment feels worse then ever and taking one bad engagement in the midgame will just make u straight up lose the game. Would be much more enjoyable for both sides if the early, mid and lategame were a lot more even. | ||
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
On June 11 2016 16:51 Elentos wrote: I don't think that would change anything in Korea. The lurker den takes long enough to finish that the Zerg can just die beforehand. And after that it's just another buff to late game which they honestly don't need in ZvT. Well a larva boost would be too much imho, and i thought it was mid game Zergs were getting rolled over, Foreigner Terran's are garbage in ability, and they would never survive a +1 larva boost At the end of the day Blizzard cant balance the game based on Foreigner- Craft because of lack skill of these players. The game is either an E-sport of it is not | ||
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MiCroLiFe
Norway275 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10847 Posts
On June 11 2016 18:49 MiCroLiFe wrote: want Code zerg instead of code S? Code Zerg lol, as a GM Zerg I agree that it is difficult at the moment, I think Zerg def. needs a buff vs Terran and the extra larva sounds appropriate as the timing on a marco hatch in ZvT is needed but very awkward to be able to begin. | ||
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
On June 11 2016 18:49 MiCroLiFe wrote: is this a joke? did you guys saw how dark A moved into the liberaton zone yesterday? and buff zerg even more? holy? want Code zerg instead of code S? Dont you mean "Code P",  | ||
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Aunvilgodess
954 Posts
On June 11 2016 04:20 ejozl wrote: Zerg is weak in Korea, but strong everywhere else. It could be Korean Zergs are a little behind on the meta, they usually adapt a lot slower than Protoss and Terran in Korea. However, it could also be the case that Zerg is the easiest to play, but that it's weaker than the other races. A pure Larvae buff would be so crazy and specifically in Europe, Zergs would be the only viable race, apart from a fringe set of players. I would rather like to see a power increase in Zerg spell casters or some other area that makes the race require more skill, while solving the power level issue. Yeahh... lets not assume that Koreans are behind in the meta after the last 5 years. | ||
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MiCroLiFe
Norway275 Posts
On June 11 2016 18:54 GGzerG wrote: Code Zerg lol, as a GM Zerg I agree that it is difficult at the moment, I think Zerg def. needs a buff vs Terran and the extra larva sounds appropriate as the timing on a marco hatch in ZvT is needed but very awkward to be able to begin. Im a master terrna, rank 400 in eu last season. and i have like 10% winrate vs zergs atm. turtle into ultra. drops? everyone stops it quite easy. even if 3 drops at the same time. and if you kill all army, and are lucky, they can respawn it easy.. I litterlay have 10% winrate vs zerg. zerg is dominating, and they will buff zerg? holy? terran needs a buff. | ||
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CyanApple
48 Posts
On June 11 2016 15:05 geokilla wrote: Do Zerg players still build macro hatcheries? Is it because of macro and unit changes, like Roach can be mutated into a Ravager for example, the reason why Zergs don't build them anymore? Queen injects spawn 3 larvae in 29 seconds. For simplicity's sake I'm going to use 30 seconds as a beast case scenario. If Zerg has 3 to 4 Hatcheries in the mid game, that's an extra 6 to 8 units per minute. What a good post. The actual change of increasing larvae might not be that much at all. It would make Zerg more resilient to harass, which is needed imo because currently if Zergs are busy restoring their economy, they can't produce army (in early-mid game). On the other hand if the larvae aren't needed for drones, the army supply might increase too much. If that's the case I would rather like to see zerg units slightly nerfed in compensation. You also address how you might compensate for that. I find it weird, that Zergs can tech switch due to their production mechanic and transform units on the go at the same time(ling to bling, roach to ravager, hydra to lurker, corruptor to broodlord), allowing for even more explosive changes in strategy/timing attacks (consider restricted role of each separate unit though). So if the raised amount of larvae would benefit Zergs too much, it could be compensated for by making them invest the larvae in units they could otherwise morph without investing additional larvae, i.e. by producing for example lurkers, or ravagers (with appropriate production time and resources) directly from larvae after a required upgrade is researched. So you need to plan ahead, instead of just produce lots of roaches, then see: "oh i might need more ravagers" and morph them on the fly. Also the artificial healing effect when you morph units would be gone, giving one unit effectively almost two lives. As this would still lead to a bigger army size than before (since you still need the same amount of larvae for the same composition, though with less "lives"), slightly nerfing basic units like roaches, hydras might be an idea to make them massable without being too strong. Also the argument, that if Zergs macro mechanic is restored to HotS-niveau, the macro mechanics of Terrans and Protoss have to be improved as well, is weak, since the mechanics certainly have different effects on the gameplay and are now discussed to change the balance in Zergs favour. In the end there are different (probably better) ways to improve ZvT, but ruling out to increase the amount of larvae without testing its effects properly is a bit rash. | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On June 11 2016 15:05 geokilla wrote: Queen injects spawn 3 larvae in 29 seconds. For simplicity's sake I'm going to use 30 seconds as a beast case scenario. If Zerg has 3 to 4 Hatcheries in the mid game, that's an extra 6 to 8 units per minute. In early game that's an extra 6 to 8 drones a minute, which in the midgame turns into way, way more than 6 to extra 8 units a minute. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3548 Posts
On June 11 2016 18:54 Aunvilgodess wrote: Yeahh... lets not assume that Koreans are behind in the meta after the last 5 years. Not really what I'm saying, Korea has a very strong player base of Protoss players, while their Zerg players have been lacking behind in comparison. | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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Scarlett`
Korea (South)2417 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
I'm all for buffing Z a bit in both mus, but not this way. I don't think the current balance is so way off you can afford such crazy changes. That being said I like those short, sensible weekly updates, far more than the long and incoherent ones we had previous to the most recent patch. | ||
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
On June 11 2016 18:49 MiCroLiFe wrote: is this a joke? did you guys saw how dark A moved into the liberaton zone yesterday? and buff zerg even more? holy? want Code zerg instead of code S? I'm an INno fan and in all honesty I'm forced to admit that he made very stubborn and poor army comp choice. He shouldn't have lost this series. Dark didn't a-move, he just used fungle+biles on clumped, non upgraded liberators, while the rest of the army was mostly marines mines and medivacs, with to few marauders, the kind of army that is totally not the answer to roach ravager and ultra. (Darks defence early and mid game was stellar too) INno choose to rely on his superior mechanics instead of thinking about the meta, that's why he's not in Code S. The truth is that other than this (INno being beat 2-3 with a bad strategy against the best zerg in the world) ZvT is mostly Terran favored in Korea. At the begining of LotV, Zerg would make ultra to get an autowin but nowadays they make ultra to avoid an autoloose, and it's not even enough most of the times. Even aLive is able to beat Dark now | ||
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DalaiiLameR
42 Posts
yes, zerg could drone up to 60-80 drones quicker, but it would be just as fast as it was in hots and wol. the only danger i would see, is that ravager pushes could be a little bit to strong in early game, but if that would be the case, you could adjust ravager - maybe need liar to morph them etc. | ||
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