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On June 11 2016 07:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 06:59 Charoisaur wrote:On June 11 2016 04:36 TriX_sc2 wrote:
I think the general consensus is that korean zergs are just bad and eu zergs could win code s. In the european community, that is. At the moment I seriously think nerchio and snute are not far behind if not better than non-Dark korean zergs. I like the way they play ZvT much better (ZvP is harder to compare due to how different Korean and foreign PvZ is at the moment). However it's harder to evaluate how everything else (multi-tasking, handling harass etc) compare.
The thing is, I'm sure there'd be a reason why Koreans don't use that style to play ZvT (at least not much) other than "They're not comfortable with it", that reason likely being "It doesn't work too well in practice".
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And another reason i think bad about buffing zerg at the moment is todays code a match (dark vs inno). Unlike in HotS zerg is nowadays allowed to stay on even bases with the terran (not for too long though) and can still win. Zerg is way more stable now, than it was back in HotS. Still, a minor zerg buff wont hurt that much.
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I think, today's Dark vs. Inno demonstrated, how the best Zerg in the world hardly manages to get a 3:2 against a (currently) average Terran. I cannot imagine any situation, where Nerchio or Snute would not lose 3:0 the same match.
EDIT: Please, HomeStory Cup, our only real global event, get to Germany a few normal, average, Korean Terrans!
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The one problem I have with this "korean feedback" is the lack of transparency from whom this feedback comes from.
For all we know it could be almost entirely zergs which provide the feedback.
If even korean terrans say zerg can't win in tvz that's of course the sign of serious balance problems but I'm VERY skeptical that korean terrans think the larva buff would be fine.
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No, the larva buff is not fine. But some buff has to happen.
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Very elaborate scheme by SoO.. hmmm I have the best injects, lets buff ME! 
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I agree with a specific version of the larva change! As someone on reddit put it, where you get one extra larva for lair and hive, respectively...
However, I don't think that's the root of the problem with ZvT. Terran players just have way too many harass options that require specific responses from Zerg and, on the flip side, require not too much effort for Terran to re-converge into 3 base timing pushes...
And Zerg don't have any way to pressure Terrans, as it's pretty damn simple for Terran to shut down all forms of Zerg aggression that isn't a timed counterattack (what Scarlett said)!
Snute's amazing post sums it up! I would like a little queen tweaking (a solid response and would allow players to go ravager free in the early game if they should so choose). But feel free to choose any of his suggestions  .
Also, please buff hydra HP so that they don't die in one shot to +1 liberators! Don't let my dreams of hydras in ZvT be dreams!
>> My dream change would be something that allows Zerg to start consistently pressuring Terrans without that pressure being too "all-in" for the Zerg (something equivalent in effect to the myriad of different things Terrans can open with).
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On June 11 2016 07:04 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 06:55 geokilla wrote:Lol it's not that Zerg is weak in Korea in my opinion. It's just that no Zerg player stands out in Korea because Korean Protoss and Terran players are too good. I can't think of any good Korean Zerg players outside of SoO, ByuL, Solar, and Dark. If Blizzard goes through with that larvae change, we're going to have a hell of a bad time like the end of Wings of Liberty. By the way, why isn't Blizzard addressing Tankivacs? Edit: Just saw this on Reddit. This is actually a really smart change. If you don't want Zerg Larva to be op in the early game maybe go with this;
Hatchery: 3 Larva per inject
Lair: 4 Larva per inject
Hive: 5 Larva per Inject
Amazing how a generally good post can have such a ridiculous beginning. Trolling fading into reason
So you think I'm trolling?
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Making tanks unsiege automatically after they're dropped by medivacs that loaded them sieged would be a way to kill two birds in one stone. It would make the tankivac less BS in TvZ, but would also unlock the full marine tankivacs TvT that has 0 diversity atm. That would be a sensible way to deal with the situation. But reverting to 4 larvae is of course complete nonsense, and would break the balance hard.
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On June 11 2016 07:47 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 07:04 Penev wrote:On June 11 2016 06:55 geokilla wrote:Lol it's not that Zerg is weak in Korea in my opinion. It's just that no Zerg player stands out in Korea because Korean Protoss and Terran players are too good. I can't think of any good Korean Zerg players outside of SoO, ByuL, Solar, and Dark. If Blizzard goes through with that larvae change, we're going to have a hell of a bad time like the end of Wings of Liberty. By the way, why isn't Blizzard addressing Tankivacs? Edit: Just saw this on Reddit. This is actually a really smart change. If you don't want Zerg Larva to be op in the early game maybe go with this;
Hatchery: 3 Larva per inject
Lair: 4 Larva per inject
Hive: 5 Larva per Inject
Amazing how a generally good post can have such a ridiculous beginning. Trolling fading into reason So you think I'm trolling?
For starters, don't begin a sentence with "lol"
Second, don't come up with the WoL "Terrans are just better" like nonsense
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On June 11 2016 07:59 JackONeill wrote:
Making tanks unsiege automatically after they're dropped by medivacs that loaded them sieged would be a way to kill two birds in one stone.
This would make unsieging via medivac pickup practically mandatory and that is weird.
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On June 11 2016 07:59 JackONeill wrote:
Making tanks unsiege automatically after they're dropped by medivacs that loaded them sieged would be a way to kill two birds in one stone. It would make the tankivac less BS in TvZ, but would also unlock the full marine tankivacs TvT that has 0 diversity atm. That would be a sensible way to deal with the situation. But reverting to 4 larvae is of course complete nonsense, and would break the balance hard.
tankivacs are 100% necessary against allins from both zerg and protoss and vs roach ravager immobile tanks would be worthless. I don't like them in tvt but removing them would break the other matchups.
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On June 11 2016 08:03 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 07:47 geokilla wrote:On June 11 2016 07:04 Penev wrote:On June 11 2016 06:55 geokilla wrote:Lol it's not that Zerg is weak in Korea in my opinion. It's just that no Zerg player stands out in Korea because Korean Protoss and Terran players are too good. I can't think of any good Korean Zerg players outside of SoO, ByuL, Solar, and Dark. If Blizzard goes through with that larvae change, we're going to have a hell of a bad time like the end of Wings of Liberty. By the way, why isn't Blizzard addressing Tankivacs? Edit: Just saw this on Reddit. This is actually a really smart change. If you don't want Zerg Larva to be op in the early game maybe go with this;
Hatchery: 3 Larva per inject
Lair: 4 Larva per inject
Hive: 5 Larva per Inject
Amazing how a generally good post can have such a ridiculous beginning. Trolling fading into reason So you think I'm trolling? For starters, don't begin a sentence with "lol" Second, don't come up with the WoL "Terrans are just better" like nonsense
It's been a general consensus that the Korean Terrans are better in TvZ right now...
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On June 11 2016 06:55 geokilla wrote:Lol it's not that Zerg is weak in Korea in my opinion. It's just that no Zerg player stands out in Korea because Korean Protoss and Terran players are too good. I can't think of any good Korean Zerg players outside of SoO, ByuL, Solar, and Dark. If Blizzard goes through with that larvae change, we're going to have a hell of a bad time like the end of Wings of Liberty. By the way, why isn't Blizzard addressing Tankivacs? Edit: Just saw this on Reddit. This is actually a really smart change. Show nested quote +If you don't want Zerg Larva to be op in the early game maybe go with this;
Hatchery: 3 Larva per inject
Lair: 4 Larva per inject
Hive: 5 Larva per Inject
Yeah T and P players are just better, just like how Z players were better than everyone else during Brood Lord/Infestor
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We need another balance team.. They're lost. We need Starbow team ^^
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
Regardless of the specific outcome, i'm happy to accept any change that comes from blizzard communicating with Korean Pro players
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On June 11 2016 08:22 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 08:03 Penev wrote:On June 11 2016 07:47 geokilla wrote:On June 11 2016 07:04 Penev wrote:On June 11 2016 06:55 geokilla wrote:Lol it's not that Zerg is weak in Korea in my opinion. It's just that no Zerg player stands out in Korea because Korean Protoss and Terran players are too good. I can't think of any good Korean Zerg players outside of SoO, ByuL, Solar, and Dark. If Blizzard goes through with that larvae change, we're going to have a hell of a bad time like the end of Wings of Liberty. By the way, why isn't Blizzard addressing Tankivacs? Edit: Just saw this on Reddit. This is actually a really smart change. If you don't want Zerg Larva to be op in the early game maybe go with this;
Hatchery: 3 Larva per inject
Lair: 4 Larva per inject
Hive: 5 Larva per Inject
Amazing how a generally good post can have such a ridiculous beginning. Trolling fading into reason So you think I'm trolling? For starters, don't begin a sentence with "lol" Second, don't come up with the WoL "Terrans are just better" like nonsense It's been a general consensus that the Korean Terrans are better in TvZ right now...
better than foreign terrans yes
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Nothing interesting beside map.
And can people stop saying " A race has no chance against B race" ???.Its too extreme.
Oh wait...those words only come from korean....
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On June 11 2016 08:22 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 08:03 Penev wrote:On June 11 2016 07:47 geokilla wrote:On June 11 2016 07:04 Penev wrote:On June 11 2016 06:55 geokilla wrote:Lol it's not that Zerg is weak in Korea in my opinion. It's just that no Zerg player stands out in Korea because Korean Protoss and Terran players are too good. I can't think of any good Korean Zerg players outside of SoO, ByuL, Solar, and Dark. If Blizzard goes through with that larvae change, we're going to have a hell of a bad time like the end of Wings of Liberty. By the way, why isn't Blizzard addressing Tankivacs? Edit: Just saw this on Reddit. This is actually a really smart change. If you don't want Zerg Larva to be op in the early game maybe go with this;
Hatchery: 3 Larva per inject
Lair: 4 Larva per inject
Hive: 5 Larva per Inject
Amazing how a generally good post can have such a ridiculous beginning. Trolling fading into reason So you think I'm trolling? For starters, don't begin a sentence with "lol" Second, don't come up with the WoL "Terrans are just better" like nonsense It's been a general consensus that the Korean Terrans are better in TvZ right now...
Think for yourself
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Would slowing the game down make it easier to balance and play in general? We have a dedicated thread for it here on TL and for a lot of people, including professionals, games are decided in one or two engagement.
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EPT
