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United Kingdom20326 Posts
I enjoy the deeper strategy at the higher levels of play (from playing archon with a better partner and watching pro games) but i think that it's a shame that it's of so little relevance for 95-99% of players and people that don't already play 100+ games a season.
"Just get faster" is so much easier and more effective than thinking about changing your strategies to interact with the opponent in a more favorable way until you get very very very good at the game.. more now than ever before with LOTV.
The mechanics/multitasking skill ceiling has been raised, but so has the floor. If you divide up all of the different parts of starcraft skill into a pie, the mechanics and multitasking slices take up a much larger % than before and make the other parts such as strategy smaller by relative importance.
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I personally liked it better with no macro mechanics / automated, I feel it helped with the pace of the game.
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On April 15 2016 15:42 RoomOfMush wrote:
3) Whine on the internet about it
I choose this one.
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Once you get to about 230 + apm the game feels not quite as hectic, because you are used to about the fastest that your going to be playing the game below a pro level.
BW required absurd amounts of mechanics due to the sloppy AI, so I have no clue where these people are getting the, Well BW was slower" when only the battles in BW were slower because controlling large armies was almost impossible for all but the Korean pros.
The strategy in SC2 is in the scouting, decision making, and engagements, all of which has to be done whilst performing macro and other mechanics.
The game does not feel too fast, it feels fast enough that the player with better and more practiced mechanics will win or at the very least retain a slight advantage, as it properly should be. The better strategy should not win against someone who is superior mechanically, at least not all of the time, better mechanics should at least compensate to a degree.
If the game is too fast for you either practice more and get better or play Heroes or LoL, both of which I enjoy greatly even though i practice SC2 enough to maintain a top 20 masters level of play ((still ridiculously terrible at the game but for examples sake)
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You have enough time to make solid tank lines. But ask yourself, are solid tank lines, that attack nothing, strategic a good decision? Not always.
I think you pressure your-self too much. You dont need to hesitate. Once you get better, you will face faster player, but you will also be faster and do things more efficient. The biggest mistake low league players do, is hesitating. They push the 1 a button 100 times, but does that achieve anything? No, instead they could have pressed 10 times less and micro properly.
That was something i did a lot in bw. Hesitate. Just stay cool and make one thing at a time. Matchmaking will do the rest.
Also this is an rts game. Time is always a part of the game and the faster player will always have an advantage. Bw was slower, but people did not less. The difference between players was even more obvious. When i took my third, hellthesheep (some might know him) had already the whole map and 200 supply.
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Does anyone else also feel like they can't enjoy other games much anymore because they just feel so slow to you? The few times I played Moba games it just felt so boring that there was only a limited amount of actions I can do at once. I also can't really enjoy my favorite games like Zelda anymore. 
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On June 03 2016 04:05 Beelzebub1 wrote:
BW required absurd amounts of mechanics due to the sloppy AI, so I have no clue where these people are getting the, Well BW was slower" when only the battles in BW were slower because controlling large armies was almost impossible for all but the Korean pros.
The strategy in SC2 is in the scouting, decision making, and engagements, all of which has to be done whilst performing macro and other mechanics.
I think people are looking at this from different angles. When I say that SC2 is too fast I am literally talking about the movement speed of some units and their DPS, not APM. Like how an oracle flies into your base at warp speed and starts 2-shotting workers with an attack speed equal to a marine's, or how a boosted medivac can just blow by 2 spores and live.
I'm over it though. I used to play roach/hydra but lately I've been teching to muta and getting lots of cheap wins off unprepared opponents. Even if your opponent is ready for it there's no real downside or punish because nothing can catch your units and they regen health at an absurd rate. I'm honestly finding the game way easier because I don't have to worry about taking a bad fight where my units could actually get caught/killed etc.
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problem here is the line can't see the strategy of the 3d world.
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anything less than the fastest setting is too slow, so no it's not
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On June 03 2016 01:47 Barrin wrote:
Yup.
I have plans to make a mod that will slow the game down a tad and make it more strategic without actually increasing downtime (possibly reducing it). There will be no new/removed units/abilities, and your mechanics will transfer over 1:1.
How this can be done is somewhat difficult to grasp and kind of a secret atm.
Still in planning stage. It won't be coming out any time soon.
Wouldn't making the first 3-4 bases single gas instead of double do the same thing? Since hurr durr smash smash is only really possible with high gas counts.
Putting the double gas bases further away would mean more aggression too, probably meaning less hurr durr smash smash
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On June 03 2016 05:02 Brutaxilos wrote:Does anyone else also feel like they can't enjoy other games much anymore because they just feel so slow to you? The few times I played Moba games it just felt so boring that there was only a limited amount of actions I can do at once. I also can't really enjoy my favorite games like Zelda anymore.
Certainly, but Moba's were boring to begin with.
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I don't think it is to fast.
I do think the damage (especially on some harass units against workers) is to high.
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On June 03 2016 07:38 Gullis wrote:
I don't think it is to fast.
I do think the damage (especially on some harass units against workers) is to high.
This is true, but I think StarCraft 2's biggest problem is it adds to complexity when it needs to enhance gameplay (fun) instead. That's why people go back to BW in my opinion. You can't tell me people go back to BW because they like its graphics, its bugs or hard mechanics. I played BW and I know that's not the case for anyone who is reasonable. 
Also, casual gamers don't stick with one game for too long in my opinion. They play it for a few hours or some time, then they switch to the next one. Of course, LoL looks casual, yet it has players, so there are probably exceptions to this rule.
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On June 03 2016 08:26 Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2016 07:38 Gullis wrote:
I don't think it is to fast.
I do think the damage (especially on some harass units against workers) is to high. This is true, but I think StarCraft 2's biggest problem is it adds to complexity when it needs to enhance gameplay (fun) instead. That's why people go back to BW in my opinion. You can't tell me people go back to BW because they like its graphics, its bugs or hard mechanics. I played BW and I know that's not the case for anyone who is reasonable.
I prefer the BW graphics over the SC2 graphics any day. SC2 doesnt even come close. But this topic has been beaten to death already.
The problem SC2 has in my opinion is that its too easy to attack and too difficult to defend. Being aggressive is always the better choice in SC2 because defense simply sucks.
In BW there were plenty of defensive strategies which were fairly powerful. Each race was able to play defense or offense and depending on how your enemy played this would create different dynamics for the game. In SC2 everybody plays offense because defense doesnt cut it. And the few times a defensive strategy actually becomes viable (like the swarm hosts madness or the raven tank crazy) they need to be nerfed to the ground because the economic situation in SC2 does not punish turtling at all while giving no bonuses to the player who is controlling the map.
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The HotS package in Medivac Boost, Oracles, Widow Mines are the worst offenders, coming from my Protoss perspective.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
I've heard that one a lot.. even in WOL
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I feel like many brood war fanatics - enjoyed the "mechanic" aspect of Sc, since it does look amazing when korean pros do it.
But you have to realise that sc was more like chess than sc2 - units AI was clunky and bad but somewhat predictable. Units took a lot longer to move towards choke points - to fly behind bases and could therefore be countered better with things like siege tanks, reavers or lurkers.
Aoe and range was effective - deathballs were not. Rushes came with fewer units - now its a lot more streamlined and less predictable.
While the SC fanatics were on the blizzard forum making sure blizzard made the game difficult enough for koreans to play - the aspect of keeping the game fun and manageable got lost.
Take Warcraft 3 for instance - just microing 5 Grunts vs each other required high amounts of skill, a level where starcraft doesnt even go because microing seperate units effectively is a waste of apm that is required in other tasks.
Even korean progamers have stated the game is too fast to enjoy sometimes.
In my opinion - starcraft 2 could easily have been easier to manage macro and unit control - and an elite of players would still have risen to stand above us all in tournaments.
For instance, in a slower paced game - instead of having 2 drops on the map - pro players would have been able to maybe do 4 at the same time - taxing their actions equally to today.
A simple "quality of life" suggestion ive read - is simply having all units in a selection be able to cast their skills without tabbing. Select units - F for forcefield T for storm G for guardian shield.
its changes like these that find the hate of the SC purists because it makes the game easier and therefore worse, but just like the macro mechanics change - most people agree that today the game just got better
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EPT
