EPTKim Phan: "We are trying to make sure we are doing what’s…
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lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 08 2016 00:46 Silvana wrote: I bet it was what the Korean broadcasters wanted. Less SC2 time to allow more LoL/Kart Rider/etc. content (aka more profitable content). Damn that's a negative pov :D Maybe it's true, but i wouldn't think so tbh. Right now my theory is that the fact that the winners qualify directly for blizzcon makes 4 tournaments simply the best choice? (so we have 4 winners and 4 wcs points leaders) Even though that's not really conistent with WCS either (3 winners and 5 wcs point leaders) Hmm  | ||
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Elentos
55554 Posts
On March 08 2016 00:46 Silvana wrote: I bet it was what the Korean broadcasters wanted. Less SC2 time to allow more LoL/Kart Rider/etc. content (aka more profitable content). But Wolf said Kart Rider was a dead game :O | ||
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JeffKim
Korea (South)36 Posts
On March 08 2016 00:51 lichter wrote: Not like she can answer any other way, if we're being honest.I admire how Kim answers so calmly despite a lot of these posts. | ||
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lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On March 08 2016 00:55 JeffKim wrote: Not like she can answer any other way, if we're being honest. You must not follow a lot of SC2 personalities on twitter | ||
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JeffKim
Korea (South)36 Posts
On March 08 2016 00:57 lichter wrote: Ironically, none of them are Senior Esports Managers at Blizzard Entertainment.You must not follow a lot of SC2 personalities on twitter | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On March 08 2016 00:55 JeffKim wrote: Not like she can answer any other way, if we're being honest. She didn't have to make a post in the thread at all, so it was pretty cool imo | ||
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Silvana
3713 Posts
On March 08 2016 00:55 JeffKim wrote: Not like she can answer any other way, if we're being honest. I don't see why she has reasons to react badly because I don't think we are being that bad at expressing our discontent with the interview (except the "omg foreigner welfare" shitposts which at this point we should all ignore). It's just that sometimes we can't make a post sound positive or friendly when the message we are trying to convey is "I am not satisfied with what you are doing". | ||
kimaphan
United States43 Posts
On March 07 2016 17:17 AKAvg wrote: I find interesting that she admits that Korea is the best is and wishes/hopes/prays that foreign players becomes as good as they are somehow/someway. I truly believe you can't be among the best if you don't train and compete with the best and I hardly think shutting most Koreans out helps with that. A shame, really. This was inherently one of the problems with the WCS system last year. The Korean players who competed in WCS were not training, practicing, or playing on the same servers as the rest of the players in NA and EU. This was frustrating for foreign players and one of the biggest complaint that we heard from them during our player and influencer summit. We've introduced rules and ladder requirements, but they can be difficult to enforce and not enough to encourage all competitors to consistently play and train on the same servers. | ||
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kimaphan
United States43 Posts
On March 08 2016 00:59 Silvana wrote: I don't see why she has reasons to react badly because I don't think we are being that bad at expressing our discontent with the interview (except the "omg foreigner welfare" shitposts which at this point we should all ignore). It's just that sometimes we can't make a post sound positive or friendly when the message we are trying to convey is "I am not satisfied with what you are doing". It would be helpful to know what you think we should do that would make everyone satisfied. | ||
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lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On March 08 2016 00:58 JeffKim wrote: Ironically, none of them are Senior Esports Managers at Blizzard Entertainment. Well she's definitely the most high profile person posting about this issue, but other high profile personalities have blown up over lesser things. In any case, posting here is dangerous (hi TB, I miss u) but I am glad that she is. | ||
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JeffKim
Korea (South)36 Posts
On March 08 2016 01:19 kimaphan wrote: It would be helpful to know what you think we should do that would make everyone satisfied. Hi Kim, first off although I disagree with some of your responses and philosophies regarding e-sports in general, I have to give due respect for taking the time to connect with players/community members. I think SC2 really needs that, and I think it's something that it has lacked in the past, so please let the people at Blizzard know to definitely engage as much as they can as it is appreciated. Secondly I have a quick question: You said this above -- On March 08 2016 01:11 kimaphan wrote: The Korean players who competed in WCS were not training, practicing, or playing on the same servers as the rest of the players in NA and EU. ... We've introduced rules and ladder requirements, but they can be difficult to enforce and not enough to encourage all competitors to consistently play and train on the same servers. Yet here: http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/articles/2016-starcraft-ii-world-championship-series We can observe the following: The WCS Korea Standings, open to all players globally, represent the most competitive StarCraft II tournament system, where the very best of the best players will go head to head. The vast majority of the league play in this system will take place in Korea, where the highest number of professional StarCraft II teams and players live, train, and compete. Any non-citizen player will be required to compete regularly on the local ladder, and will have other guidelines to fulfill. We’re working with our partners to encourage the development of skilled players all across the globe, through travel support, prizing, and by exposing players to international and local competition. Now, I'm ALL FOR equality opportunity, engaging with other regions than your own, etc., but do you think restricting access so that Player A from Region A should only be able to compete in Region A, Player B from Region B should only be able to compete in Region B, etc.? I see this both appropriate from an architectural standpoint as well as logical for the quelling of region differences as well as scheduled play quotas. Then, at the end, the top X from each region compete at a large tournament. Like other games that adapt this -- I'm sure you know it more than I do, as you have vast experience with tournament structuring. I think at some point, eligibility to compete regardless of "fair play" needs to have restrictions to prune and efficiently progress. What say you? | ||
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waiting2Bbanned
United States154 Posts
Afaik Polt hasn't been a full time student in a long time and spent a lot of time in Korea last year. He also lives together with Neuro and Violet, so his practice environment is quite good for the foreign scene. sooo.. in "foreigner speak" living in the same house with one other pro-gamer (1 1/2 if you wanna count Neuro too) who's not even on the same team, since CM Storm only had 1 player, and visiting family in Korea equals "Korean team environment". Got it. I don't think him barely winning is embarassing for foreign players again, translating from "foreigner speak", dropping 4 maps from 5 matches (4 BO5's and 1 BO7) and 3-0 Nerchio ("the best foreign zerg" in Poland) is "barely winning". I think I'm beginning to understand this new language now  | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
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Hurricaned
France126 Posts
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kimaphan
United States43 Posts
On March 08 2016 01:29 Hurricaned wrote: I understand blizzard is trying to make it look like foreigners have a chance but you have to be totally delusional if you think the best foreigners have the slightest chance against the top code S That's not what we're trying to do. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On March 08 2016 01:19 kimaphan wrote: It would be helpful to know what you think we should do that would make everyone satisfied. Hi Kim, thanks for listening and replying to us. I've been following esports since wc3 and loved your content and casts back then! First of all, I am all for region locking and giving foreigners and local players more chances, I think the system does this well! We already have great storylines thanks to DH and IEM Katowice. But can you tell us why you didn't just continue with WCS Premiere Season 1,2,3 with studio events and a big season final at a nice venue? Those were the easiest to follow by far. You could've let IEM/DH untouched and they would be our global events, where Korean players earn Korean WCS points and foreigners their foreign WCS points for the 8/8 split at BlizzCon. If those had gotten extra prize money from Blizzard (possible since the money went from 1,6M to 2M), the hype around DHs and IEM would be really big, since we have the Foreigner vs Korean storyline back. Was this solution ever discussed and if yes why did it not become reality? Because now it just feels like we lost the WCS Premiere League and IEM/DH got "stolen" from the scene and are now region locked. Many were looking forward to an IEM WC where the winners of the previous IEMs would compete. In regards to the Korean scene, it just feels like they have too few opportunites to play in. 4 big qualifiers a year is not enough. A player like Parting or Jaedong and many others who are not on a Proleague team and didn't quaulify for/went out early in GSL/SSL might not be seen competing offline of 6 months? That's not cool, would you agree? My last question is if the WCS Spring and Winter Championship will be standalone events, because I think that's a lot better. Not having a crowd at day 1 and day 2 of Katowice was kind of disappointing! Thank for your time and all the hard work. Hopefully WCS can become something everybody can enjoy in the future . | ||
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Silvana
3713 Posts
On March 08 2016 01:19 kimaphan wrote: It would be helpful to know what you think we should do that would make everyone satisfied. First of all, thanks for replying to my post! I know making everyone satisfied is impossible but I think there are some things that almost everyone can agree on. I'll mention the 2 things I think are most important: I personally think that the system is putting too much effort on rescuing the foreign scene and not enough in Korea. This feels unfair (because the better players get less opportunities), and goes in detriment of the overall scene because Korea represents the top, thus if Korea declines then the whole scene loses quality. Given how the current system is, I think things could improve significantly if there were more tournaments where Koreans can play in. I understand working with Korean organizations can be hard, but I don't see why we don't have Global Events yet. Maybe I am too demanding but I think 1 or 2 Global Events plus Blizzcon doesn't cut it. Also, this maybe seems like a cliche but I think communication is key in the current times because you just implemented a new system that included a very bold move (region locking), so making a special effort to address the questions with direct answers is very important. I'm sorry to be so negative but the interview in the OP left us with a lot of important aspects untouched, for example what you think is going bad with the new system (Korea has too little tournaments, WCS rules unclear, tournament qualifiers badly organized/handled, to name a few) and how you plan on fixing it. If said things are not talked about then we don't know whether you don't see the problem, or whether your priorities lie way far from them, or whether we simply are being too negative. In the end we don't know if action will be taken or to solve them, which feels very frustrating and I believe is the reason of most of the angry "zomg foreigner welfare" posts. Again I'm sorry to be so negative and I hope my English is good enough to get my message through! | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On March 08 2016 01:41 Musicus wrote: Hi Kim, thanks for listening and replying to us. I've been following esports since wc3 and loved your content and casts back then! First of all I am all for region locking and giving foreigners and local players more chances, I think the system does this well! We already have great storylines thanks to DH and IEM Katowice. But can you tell us why you didn't just continue with WCS Premiere Season 1,2,3 with studio events and a big season final at a nice venue? Those were the easiest to follow by far. You could've let IEM/DH untouched and they would be our global events, where Korean players earn Korean WCS points and foreigners their foreign WCS points for the 8/8 split at BlizzCon. If those had gotten extra prize money from Blizzard (possible since the money went from 1,6M to 2M), the hype around DHs and IEM would be really big, since we have the Foreigner vs Korean storyline back. Was this solution ever discusses and if yes why did it not become reality? Because now it just feels like we lost the WCS Premiere League and IEM/DH got "stolen" from the scene and are now region locked. Many were looking forward to an IEM WC where the winners of the previous IEMs would compete. In regards to the Korean scene, it just feels like they have too few opportunites to play in. 4 big qualifiers a year is not enough. A player like Parting or Jaedong and many others who are not on a Proleague team and didn't quaulify for/went out early in GSL/SSL might not be seen competing offline of 6 months? That's not cool, would you agree? My last question is if the WCS Spring and Winter Championship will be standalone events, because I think that's a lot better. Not having a crowd at day 1 and day 2 of Katowice was kind of disappointing! Thank for your time and all the hard work. Hopefully WCS can become something everybody can enjoy in the future .This is what would I wrote if I could write. (I bet this conditional is wrong either) Which is IMO wrong. Well, not wrong, but... Right now the foreigners has the biggest shot to win vs. high profiled monsters. The game is new, meta isn't settled, they can surprise(e.g. Lilbow vs. TY at DH). The longer the game will be stable the bigger the difference. I think that up until July(my estimation) it would be quite interesting and watchable. Maybe I am optimistic in the threshold, maybe I am not, who knows, we will never know | ||
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waiting2Bbanned
United States154 Posts
You could've let IEM/DH untouched and they would be our global events, where Korean players earn Korean WCS points and foreigners their foreign WCS points for the 8/8 split at BlizzCon. If those had gotten extra prize money from Blizzard (possible since the money went from 1,6M to 2M), the hype around DHs and IEM would be really big, since we have the Foreigner vs Korean storyline back. I completely agree with this; shutting out any interaction between KR players (PL, GSL, SSL players, not Polt,Violet,Hydra) and the foreigners cannot possibly be good for the scene. Lack of hype/viewership/SC2 exposure from the Foreigner vs. KR rivalry, also giving foreigners a chance to play against KR meta and accurately gauge their performance BEFORE the Blizzcon ultimate test so they don't get roflstomped the first time they actually get a chance to play against Koreans. A player like Parting or Jaedong and many others who are not on a Proleague team and didn't quaulify for/went out early in GSL/SSL might not be seen competing offline of 6 months? That's not cool, would you agree? ..and also this. I know some retirements are inevitable (age, military svc etc.) but with the lack of tourneys how would any young talented KR kid think he'd have a chance making a living out of becoming a pro SC2 player? | ||
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