EPTWhile the show is going on people behind the scenes are already planning ahead, thinking about the near and far future, adapting to any challenges that might come up. One of the people primarily responsible for the direction of the esports side of SC2 is Kim Phan. She is responsible for managing the monstrous eSport machinery of Blizzard Entertainment, a beast not easily tamed or satisfied, as new tastes and flavours fall in and out of trend and new challenges arise daily.
We were able to spend some time with Kim Phan at the WCS Circuit: Winter Championship in Katowice, Poland, to talk about one great part of this machinery: the World Championship Series.
TL.net: What would you say are the biggest positive and the biggest negative points about the new WCS system and what was your thought process behind this radical system change between 2015 and 2016?
Kim Phan: Well, first of all we took a look at all the years and what people liked and the StarCraft community is so amazing—from the players, to the influencers, just everyone involved is very vocal about StarCraft and is very passionate about it, so we hear a lot of feedback—and it’s great to be able to receive so many thoughts and a lot of that is taken into account, when we make changes.
For 2016 we knew it was going to be the Legacy of the Void launch year and that was a great opportunity for us to think about how we continue growing StarCraft eSports, especially as new players come in to try Legacy of the Void, and the games changes as well with different units that are added. That was almost like another chance to say: Hey, what does the StarCraft landscape look like in terms of competitive play, what is the meta? And I think we wanted to make changes, which would allow more people to compete and enter the system. So how were we able to improve that?
The thing that we saw in 2015 was that it was very difficult for a professional player to really stand out and to get noticed in a system where there were a lot of players from Korea in this space. You know, Korea has just always been a very dominant and fierce country when it comes to eSports—they’re just so, so good. And there probably aren’t enough tournaments out there to really accommodate all their skill. So what we saw was not enough growth in other regions, because there weren’t enough moments where we saw—for example in Krakow last year for the Season 3 finals—a moment that was like ‘wow, this is amazing, look at the Polish crowd cheer on MaNa in the finals and there is Lilbow as well’ and it’s just so great to see that energy and to see local heroes shine and these players played really, really well, they took out Hydra and Polt. So how do you cultivate that? I think that influenced a lot of our changes and that is why we decided to go the route of two different ranking systems.
One reason is: How do we grow pro players and give them the chance to shine and to show they truly are skilled? It’s wonderful to see all the best players of the world play and not just Korea—certainly the best of the best in StarCraft is in Korea, no doubt about it—, but there is a best of the best in StarCraft all over the world as well and we wanted to be able to put a spotlight on that, and I think that influenced our changes significantly. And at the same time we want people to realize that Korea is the best and we didn’t do a good job previously of promoting the tournaments in Korea, because it’s in a different time zone, in the west it’s really hard to follow—and those are the things we wanted to do better for Korea to really put a spotlight on ‘this is where the best players are, if you want to compete with the best, this is the place to go’. So WCS Korea is still open to everybody, is still a global tournament, but the reality of 'doing really well' is competing against the big bosses again and again. We want to rebroadcast it, talk about the stories more, tell people more about the players. Because if you have it mixed together it’s harder to follow the story. So you can’t really follow the stories of the other local heroes, because they’re not getting a chance to rise. It’s just too much to cover to keep it clear.
These are probably the biggest reasons behind these changes and we thought with Legacy of the Void was a great opportunity to do a change like that. What else did we consider? We could have made not a lot of changes at all, but then it probably would’ve taken longer to get players inspired to compete.
For 2016 we knew it was going to be the Legacy of the Void launch year and that was a great opportunity for us to think about how we continue growing StarCraft eSports, especially as new players come in to try Legacy of the Void, and the games changes as well with different units that are added. That was almost like another chance to say: Hey, what does the StarCraft landscape look like in terms of competitive play, what is the meta? And I think we wanted to make changes, which would allow more people to compete and enter the system. So how were we able to improve that?
The thing that we saw in 2015 was that it was very difficult for a professional player to really stand out and to get noticed in a system where there were a lot of players from Korea in this space. You know, Korea has just always been a very dominant and fierce country when it comes to eSports—they’re just so, so good. And there probably aren’t enough tournaments out there to really accommodate all their skill. So what we saw was not enough growth in other regions, because there weren’t enough moments where we saw—for example in Krakow last year for the Season 3 finals—a moment that was like ‘wow, this is amazing, look at the Polish crowd cheer on MaNa in the finals and there is Lilbow as well’ and it’s just so great to see that energy and to see local heroes shine and these players played really, really well, they took out Hydra and Polt. So how do you cultivate that? I think that influenced a lot of our changes and that is why we decided to go the route of two different ranking systems.
One reason is: How do we grow pro players and give them the chance to shine and to show they truly are skilled? It’s wonderful to see all the best players of the world play and not just Korea—certainly the best of the best in StarCraft is in Korea, no doubt about it—, but there is a best of the best in StarCraft all over the world as well and we wanted to be able to put a spotlight on that, and I think that influenced our changes significantly. And at the same time we want people to realize that Korea is the best and we didn’t do a good job previously of promoting the tournaments in Korea, because it’s in a different time zone, in the west it’s really hard to follow—and those are the things we wanted to do better for Korea to really put a spotlight on ‘this is where the best players are, if you want to compete with the best, this is the place to go’. So WCS Korea is still open to everybody, is still a global tournament, but the reality of 'doing really well' is competing against the big bosses again and again. We want to rebroadcast it, talk about the stories more, tell people more about the players. Because if you have it mixed together it’s harder to follow the story. So you can’t really follow the stories of the other local heroes, because they’re not getting a chance to rise. It’s just too much to cover to keep it clear.
These are probably the biggest reasons behind these changes and we thought with Legacy of the Void was a great opportunity to do a change like that. What else did we consider? We could have made not a lot of changes at all, but then it probably would’ve taken longer to get players inspired to compete.
TL.net: Did you ever discuss going back to the system you had in 2012, with the regional and national championships? People really loved that. There is this famous picture of Stephano with the French flag in hand, being cheered on by the crowd…
Kim Phan: Yes, we did consider so many options and this was one of the things we considered as well. But—as you mentioned drastic changes before—we thought going back to a system from 2012 would have been too drastic. Also in order to put together 2012 we had to get a lot of events from all over the world together and from the feedback we got about this it was really hard to follow. It was great for the people who followed their own region and got to see their own heroes, but to follow the stories from across the world was really difficult for a lot of people. So that was something we were mindful of. How can we make the stories easy to follow? So the system now—although it seems like it has two different stories—provides one story here. So you are still able to see Stephano do his flag waving, like Lilbow did now. So I think we have a little bit of a mix of both now, because our Championships will be at live events, so we have more of those moments, but they all have to compete against each other to see who is the best.
TL.net: Do you then think that the one event we have had so far—DreamHack in Leipzig—was a promising start to the new system, or is it too early to really tell?
Kim Phan: We have seen the positive changes we intended happening, and as this is the second event we are going to continue to see more results, so yes it’s a little early to say, but we are already seeing positive things. That I am really excited about.
TL.net: So did you hear a lot of good things from the community? What are these positive signals you get?
Kim Phan: Yes, we get a lot of feedback from the community, we continue to do so—of course a big thanks to the teamliquid community and just the StarCraft community as a whole for always telling us what they’re thinking. We are seeing a lot of incoming players rising, and I think that’s exciting, fresh blood is always good, and you are seeing some surprises with Legacy of the Void being so different, people love playing it, so I heard a lot of positive feedback about the game and how it affected eSports.
TL.net: Initially the community didn’t react so well to the WCS changes. Were you afraid that you would create a rift between the regions, or between the so-called casual fan camp and the so-called elitist fan camp, which would stay for a long time?
Kim Phan: I think every time you introduce change it takes a while for people to form a decision about it. And I will admit we changed WCS year after year, it’s always been different and the community has been very patient in letting us try things and giving feedback. So I can see why it may be challenging when you are really invested into one format and then another change happens. But we really want to do it right and create a system that can continue and be easy to follow, and so we continue to make improvements. And I think we just expect there to be different voices. We are trying to make sure we are doing what’s best for StarCraft and what’s best for the players.
TL.net: Many in the community are looking forward to the WCS Global Events, where Foreigners will compete against Koreans, which is a rare occasion now in the new system. But many are worried, because we haven’t heard any real announcements about these events so far. Is there anything you can say about this? Will Blizzard give more incentives to organizers to organize these events?
Kim Phan: I am trying to think about what I can say… I do know that there is one event being planned, that hasn’t been announced yet. So I shouldn’t say anything until it’s actually announced, as I don’t know what changes might be happening. But I do think those moments will become very, very special and that’s what I am really excited about. On the flip side of course people say ‘how is that competition going to look like though, when they haven’t played against each other for a while now?’. I don’t remember the year, but one time at IPL they did ‘Korea vs the World’, do you remember that one?
TL.net: Yeah.
Kim Phan: That was the one where Stephano like…
TL.net: …where Stephano almost all-killed Korea.
Kim Phan: Yeah, where Stephano almost all-killed them. So I am excited about this. That event gives me hope, that as the skill level of the western players get better and better and better, that’s going to be cool to see. And what else was it? Nation Wars?
TL.net: Yeah, Nation Wars. MarineLorD’s moment of triumph.
Kim Phan: Oh my goodness, Nation Wars, MarineLorD was insane, so him taking out the whole Korean team was really cool to see. So France won Nation Wars against Korea, which gives me a lot excitement and hope for more moments like that.
TL.net: As you know the teamliquid-community is especially interested in the Korean scene, following it religiously. Recently there have been worries about the shrinking talent pool in Korea—our very own stuchiu wrote an article about this on ESPN that really blew up and opened a huge discussion inside the community. Are there plans from Blizzard to step in and help out the grassroots scene there and also abroad?
Kim Phan: We will continue to support Korean eSports, we know that that’s where the talent is—and you kind of hit it right there I think, you can’t stop players from retiring, it’s always going to happen. StarCraft is a lot about speed and APM and if you don’t play a lot you’re going to fall behind very quickly. So how do you get the next group of people coming in? We’ve been working with organizers in Korea to build more grassroots tournaments and to help growing that talent. There are things we are already doing, a lot of it behind the scenes which people might not realize as well. The point is something I agree with and we’re working towards improving things.
TL.net: Since Proleague is so beloved all over the world, have there been discussions about setting up an official Blizzard team league? Is that something that might come up in the future?
Kim Phan: We also love Proleague, we think it’s awesome. And we’ve thought about it. There need to be more teams outside of Korea however in order to build a league. So yeah, we did think about it. But the nature of StarCraft 2 being a 1on1 game and the infrastructure outside of Korea making it harder for teams to practice together is a bigger challenge. So the question is how to grow these things, so you can have enough teams on an even playing field.
TL.net: Thank you very much for your time, we wish you the best in the future, please try to show good systems and we will cheer for you!
This Karma thing is gorgeous 
