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If you are going to argue about racism in this thread, just don't. It is a pointless argument that merits no valuable discussion whatsoever. If people truly feel so strongly about it, then take it to PMs. Do not muck up this thread with racism arguments. |
On March 19 2016 05:16 Incognoto wrote:
That is indeed a possibility. If it holds out that Blizzard is right and the community is wrong, then perhaps we should see increased viewership, more opportunities for all players regardless of their nationality, a growing scene, more exposure and more players actually playing Starcraft.
In the mean time, none of that is happening. None of that is happening and as of right now, it is penalizing to actually be a player with Korean nationality. So, I am not personally seeing the justification of discriminating Koreans from open and international events. I also know that Blizzard had 3 or 4 years to run a good and fair WCS system and that the results were not there.
Actually, maybe the results were there, only foreigners were not. You tell me.. I only see events which are supposed to be open to all players get closed off to players of a certain nationality only. Then I see Blizzard congratulating themselves for "positive signs" whereas I do not see any myself. So, I can help but wonder if Blizzard are not indeed disconnected from the community and/or reality.
Just saw this. Closing events off can be helpful and to be honest, viewership for the foreigner only events has gone waaaaaaay up on average in comparison to the WCS EU, WCS America, and WCS Premier League events of the past two years. Just sayin. Fairness, like anything can be good or bad (usually, I'd say its a mixture of both) and I certainly don't think "fairness" necessarily always equals "best". Some limits exist for good reasons. Prior to the changes I had almost stopped watching most competition that included foreigners because the outcome was painfully obvious before the match began but I watched the last several region locked foreigner-only events with bated breathe. They were very well done and the games were creative, exciting and many of them were close and unpredictable. Exciting stuff!
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On May 11 2016 07:31 looknohands119 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2016 05:16 Incognoto wrote:
That is indeed a possibility. If it holds out that Blizzard is right and the community is wrong, then perhaps we should see increased viewership, more opportunities for all players regardless of their nationality, a growing scene, more exposure and more players actually playing Starcraft.
In the mean time, none of that is happening. None of that is happening and as of right now, it is penalizing to actually be a player with Korean nationality. So, I am not personally seeing the justification of discriminating Koreans from open and international events. I also know that Blizzard had 3 or 4 years to run a good and fair WCS system and that the results were not there.
Actually, maybe the results were there, only foreigners were not. You tell me.. I only see events which are supposed to be open to all players get closed off to players of a certain nationality only. Then I see Blizzard congratulating themselves for "positive signs" whereas I do not see any myself. So, I can help but wonder if Blizzard are not indeed disconnected from the community and/or reality. Just saw this. Closing events off can be helpful and to be honest, viewership for the foreigner only events has gone waaaaaaay up on average in comparison to the WCS EU, WCS America, and WCS Premier League events of the past two years. Just sayin. Fairness, like anything can be good or bad (usually, I'd say its a mixture of both) and I certainly don't think "fairness" necessarily always equals "best". Some limits exist for good reasons. Prior to the changes I had almost stopped watching most competition that included foreigners because the outcome was painfully obvious before the match began but I watched the last several region locked foreigner-only events with bated breathe. They were very well done and the games were creative, exciting and many of them were close and unpredictable. Exciting stuff!
you seem to forgot last year HotS and current year LotV are different games so its not a legit argument. swarmhosts and mechgames were boring as fuck to watch and lotv barely has them anymore.
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So they promise all these global events to make up for the lack of Korean contestants in the WCS scene.
This interview shows that there were never really any plans for a lot of WCS Global matches. "1 coming up but haven't announced."
For all I know they could have just started to plan it going "holy batshit these guys haven't forgot that we promised a global event!"
I am beginning to think that the 8 spots in Blizzcon are not welfare for foreigners, but rather for Koreans who just don't get enough chances to rack up WCS Points.....
I am completely fine with WCS being a circuit, but Dreamhack and IEM, please keep them Global;;;;;
They keep on going over Lilbow and Mana
Lilbow and Mana X
Lilbow and Mana both beating Koreans in the semis. O
Korean pros are like street cred... You gotta beat them to be recognized. I don't know if the foreign scene can improve from internal sparring but I really hope it does because beating Koreans are the only way their games are going to be recognized.
Foreign WCS winners are good, but in the overall ranking I feel it would be unfair to guys who actually got to Ro8 or Ro4 when there were Koreans in the scene. I bet if there weren't Koreans, they would have won for sure.
Am I saying WCS winner of 2016 S1 = WCS 2013 Ro8? Probably.
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Well WCS Season 1 winner technically (In that the Circuit Championships replacing the actual seasons) was Polt, so he was more Ro4
Still it's pretty telling that for all the talk of this helping Foreigners to beat Koreans the only two Foreign champions of WCS 2016 either won a tournament that zero Koreans in it (Harstem) or didn't play a Korean on his side of the draw in the tournament he won (Ptitdrogo).
The only time we have seen Foreigners take on Koreans (As in Koreans not in WCS) in tournament play was IEM Taipei, where Snute and Lilbow got pretty much ROFLStomped.
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TL.net wrote:
TL.net: Many in the community are looking forward to the WCS Global Events, where Foreigners will compete against Koreans, which is a rare occasion now in the new system. But many are worried, because we haven’t heard any real announcements about these events so far. Is there anything you can say about this? Will Blizzard give more incentives to organizers to organize these events?
Kim Phan: I am trying to think about what I can say… I do know that there is one event being planned, that hasn’t been announced yet. So I shouldn’t say anything until it’s actually announced, as I don’t know what changes might be happening. But I do think those moments will become very, very special and that’s what I am really excited about.
Can't wait for the announcement of the global event, which Kim Phan mentioned in the interview. Really sad, she did not announce it yet.
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For all I care it doesn't matter which players win this or that as long as everyone gets the chance to qualify for the big tourneys. Segregating players aint no good.
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It's nothing we didn't know, but it's really good that we see them caring about the foreigner scene.
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On June 01 2016 05:00 MoosyDoosy wrote:
It's nothing we didn't know, but it's really good that we see them caring about the foreigner scene.
Well, I did not know that there is the one global event really planned, so I am quite happy, Kim Phan mentioned it. But so far, they are waiting too long with the announcement of the details. Which can bring some confusion into the community.
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On June 01 2016 05:04 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2016 05:00 MoosyDoosy wrote:
It's nothing we didn't know, but it's really good that we see them caring about the foreigner scene. Well, I did not know that there is the one global event really planned, so I am quite happy, Kim Phan mentioned it. But so far, they are waiting too long with the announcement of the details. Which can bring some confusion into the community.
What's confusing about it? She lied to try and appease people.
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Maybe she meant Blizzcon as in "we haven't announced Blizzcon yet".
:/
I'm not sure, but you can be damn sure that I'm pissed that Koreans are discriminated against. It's not racism, yes, yes. I'm talking about objectively less possibilities in terms of tournaments for players who are left out for no other reason than their nationality. It's appalling.
Kim also talked about grassroot tournaments for Korea. Those were also thin air apparently, nothing has even been announced and the year is already half over. I find that a little bad, sorry.
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Well, I brought this topic back as I would expect this OGE (ONE GLOBAL EVENT) to be held between the GSL seasons 1 and 2. And in relation to the fact that Proleague just announced, it will be played during the weekends, I have no idea, when do they want to run the global event. Doing it just before BlizzCon might be an interesting idea for last WCS points for people around the threshold, but I would prefer it sometimes now.
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On June 01 2016 06:23 Diabolique wrote:
Well, I brought this topic back as I would expect this OGE (ONE GLOBAL EVENT) to be held between the GSL seasons 1 and 2. And in relation to the fact that Proleague just announced, it will be played during the weekends, I have no idea, when do they want to run the global event. Doing it just before BlizzCon might be an interesting idea for last WCS points for people around the threshold, but I would prefer it sometimes now.
Think about it:
GSL, SSL and ProLeague will finish arround end of july till mid august.
Blizzcon is 4/5 November. Global Playoffs will be most likely 1 week earlier.
So there is theoretically plenty of time...
But most likely the korean players will just chill their chills for 2 month without doing anything.
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On June 01 2016 06:27 Clonester wrote:
But most likely the korean players will just chill their chills for 2 month without doing anything.
And while that's happening, Blizzard will be heralded as the savior of Starcraft 2 as an eSport.
Just wanna say it again: nothing wrong with regional events, but don't lock EVERYTHING.
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On June 01 2016 06:27 Clonester wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2016 06:23 Diabolique wrote:
Well, I brought this topic back as I would expect this OGE (ONE GLOBAL EVENT) to be held between the GSL seasons 1 and 2. And in relation to the fact that Proleague just announced, it will be played during the weekends, I have no idea, when do they want to run the global event. Doing it just before BlizzCon might be an interesting idea for last WCS points for people around the threshold, but I would prefer it sometimes now. Think about it: GSL, SSL and ProLeague will finish arround end of july till mid august. Blizzcon is 4/5 November. Global Playoffs will be most likely 1 week earlier. So there is theoretically plenty of time... But most likely the korean players will just chill their chills for 2 month without doing anything.
OK, if they do the Kespa cup and the ONE GLOBAL EVENT in September / October as the last qualifier for BlizzCon, that would make quite some sense. If it turns out that there will be no Kespa cup and no ONE GLOBAL EVENT, then I will be permanently banned from this forum because I will be writing something about Blizzard.
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On May 11 2016 09:31 RCCar wrote:
So they promise all these global events to make up for the lack of Korean contestants in the WCS scene.
This interview shows that there were never really any plans for a lot of WCS Global matches. "1 coming up but haven't announced."
For all I know they could have just started to plan it going "holy batshit these guys haven't forgot that we promised a global event!"
I am beginning to think that the 8 spots in Blizzcon are not welfare for foreigners, but rather for Koreans who just don't get enough chances to rack up WCS Points.....
I am completely fine with WCS being a circuit, but Dreamhack and IEM, please keep them Global;;;;;
They keep on going over Lilbow and Mana
Lilbow and Mana X
Lilbow and Mana both beating Koreans in the semis. O
Korean pros are like street cred... You gotta beat them to be recognized. I don't know if the foreign scene can improve from internal sparring but I really hope it does because beating Koreans are the only way their games are going to be recognized.
Foreign WCS winners are good, but in the overall ranking I feel it would be unfair to guys who actually got to Ro8 or Ro4 when there were Koreans in the scene. I bet if there weren't Koreans, they would have won for sure.
Am I saying WCS winner of 2016 S1 = WCS 2013 Ro8? Probably.
Anyone giving Lilbow or Mana street cred for beating the WCS Koreans as some kind of justification for the current system is being willfully ignorant or plain stupid.
Hydra, Polt and Violet are nowhere near the level of the GSL/SSL Korean players. Saying that Lilbow beat Hydra which meant that the foreign scene was improving thanks to the new system fell flat on its fucking head the second he got paired up against Life who just embarassed the crap out of him.
The foreign scene isn't getting any better with this year's system. I'd argue the gap is actually just widening without real competition show it.
Blizzcon this year will suffer because of it. The Ro16 is basically a question of which actual contenders get matched with each other and which get fancy byes in the form of their WCS opponents.
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On June 01 2016 06:27 Clonester wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2016 06:23 Diabolique wrote:
Well, I brought this topic back as I would expect this OGE (ONE GLOBAL EVENT) to be held between the GSL seasons 1 and 2. And in relation to the fact that Proleague just announced, it will be played during the weekends, I have no idea, when do they want to run the global event. Doing it just before BlizzCon might be an interesting idea for last WCS points for people around the threshold, but I would prefer it sometimes now. Think about it: GSL, SSL and ProLeague will finish arround end of july till mid august. Blizzcon is 4/5 November. Global Playoffs will be most likely 1 week earlier. So there is theoretically plenty of time... But most likely the korean players will just chill their chills for 2 month without doing anything.
If the koreans have to sit for 2 months before Blizzcon while the foreigners can freely play still rest assured the "R word" is coming back in giant letters
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Canada8990 Posts
On June 01 2016 07:20 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2016 09:31 RCCar wrote:
So they promise all these global events to make up for the lack of Korean contestants in the WCS scene.
This interview shows that there were never really any plans for a lot of WCS Global matches. "1 coming up but haven't announced."
For all I know they could have just started to plan it going "holy batshit these guys haven't forgot that we promised a global event!"
I am beginning to think that the 8 spots in Blizzcon are not welfare for foreigners, but rather for Koreans who just don't get enough chances to rack up WCS Points.....
I am completely fine with WCS being a circuit, but Dreamhack and IEM, please keep them Global;;;;;
They keep on going over Lilbow and Mana
Lilbow and Mana X
Lilbow and Mana both beating Koreans in the semis. O
Korean pros are like street cred... You gotta beat them to be recognized. I don't know if the foreign scene can improve from internal sparring but I really hope it does because beating Koreans are the only way their games are going to be recognized.
Foreign WCS winners are good, but in the overall ranking I feel it would be unfair to guys who actually got to Ro8 or Ro4 when there were Koreans in the scene. I bet if there weren't Koreans, they would have won for sure.
Am I saying WCS winner of 2016 S1 = WCS 2013 Ro8? Probably. Anyone giving Lilbow or Mana street cred for beating the WCS Koreans as some kind of justification for the current system is being willfully ignorant or plain stupid. Hydra, Polt and Violet are nowhere near the level of the GSL/SSL Korean players. Saying that Lilbow beat Hydra which meant that the foreign scene was improving thanks to the new system fell flat on its fucking head the second he got paired up against Life who just embarassed the crap out of him. The foreign scene isn't getting any better with this year's system. I'd argue the gap is actually just widening without real competition show it. Blizzcon this year will suffer because of it. The Ro16 is basically a question of which actual contenders get matched with each other and which get fancy byes in the form of their WCS opponents.
Polt and Hydra are probably (at least they were at the start at the year, they seems to be a bit less strong at the last wcs and dreamhack) code S and SSL level player, like round of 32-16 players, all the wcs players did ok in Korea (Hyun, Bomber, MC, Taeja, MMA, Patience) they are not finalist level but I feel they could do fine.
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Well, in an interview she can't say something like "we don't care about koreans this year", she just said what people wants to hear, like every interview that involves Blizzard staff.
But we remember, Kim.
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On June 01 2016 05:37 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2016 05:04 Diabolique wrote:On June 01 2016 05:00 MoosyDoosy wrote:
It's nothing we didn't know, but it's really good that we see them caring about the foreigner scene. Well, I did not know that there is the one global event really planned, so I am quite happy, Kim Phan mentioned it. But so far, they are waiting too long with the announcement of the details. Which can bring some confusion into the community. What's confusing about it? She lied to try and appease people.
Rumors of a global event in the works have been spoken about by personalities on stream since that interview has taken place, and the ones I've seen talk about it have said that it's still being planned and not yet final. Just because it wasn't announced when you wanted it to be doesn't mean we've been lied to.
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EPT
