|
If you are going to argue about racism in this thread, just don't. It is a pointless argument that merits no valuable discussion whatsoever. If people truly feel so strongly about it, then take it to PMs. Do not muck up this thread with racism arguments. |
On March 10 2016 04:00 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2016 02:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On March 10 2016 01:17 Djzapz wrote:
People should use the term "discrimination" in this case. Blizzard may be the architect of a system which seems to be designed gives an unfair advantage to certain people based on nationality. I'd argue there's no ill will, but WCS's system clearly puts nationality ahead of competition. This deserves to be discussed. Let me put it this way, if the spirit of a competition is to find out who the best player is, and you intentionally funnel less competent players at the highest level of competition, are you running a tournament or a circus? Circuses are fun, people like that.
its in the nature of anything less than BO7 series. its rampant in the Olympics and international hockey, basketball and baseball competitions. in international basketball and baseball they really should just hand the US the Gold and not invite them.. and have every other country in the world fight over Silver. should the women's world hockey championship even exist? just have Canada and the US do a single BO7. no, Canada plays Sweden in 2006 because the US loses 1 game to Sweden after beating them like 15 times during the year? LOL Does any one really believe the 1988 Soviet Union had a better basketball team than the US? does any one think the 1980 US hockey team was better than the 1980 Soviet hockey team? i can go on forever with these comparisons... usually the champ of these short-time-line international events is questionable and based on 1 game. the NCAA Basketball. its all 1-game eliminations for the final 64 teams does anyone think Arizona > Kentucky in '97? and again, i can list 1000 upsets here. Is that what you want or is that what happens? I ask as someone who couldn't care less about the Olympics. Also just because you don't necessarily get the best at the end of a tournament doesn't mean you should throw the notion out of the window. Upsets happen, the worse player can get lucky - you still should have a format that promotes skill above all else though. Otherwise, like I said, it becomes a circus. It seems to me like you're saying "we can't consistently perfectly determine who's the best so we shouldn't even try" which I don't think it's what you actually believe. I mean if we extend your logic we could run everything in single elim bo1's and it's fine, we're just throwing shit at the wall and people are fine. Then the tournament becomes more about flags moving up brackets than about being good at the game.
if Blizz had the resources of the NBA, MLB, or NFL they could crown an undisputed world champ. they don't have those resources therefore we get the kind of international competition you see in dozens of other competitive endeavours.
Determining who is "the best" in a 1 weekend event is unreliable, A BO7 played over 2 weeks is what it takes. The NBA , MLB and NHL are the only organizations with the financial mite to make that happen.
|
On March 10 2016 04:19 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2016 04:00 Djzapz wrote:On March 10 2016 02:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On March 10 2016 01:17 Djzapz wrote:
People should use the term "discrimination" in this case. Blizzard may be the architect of a system which seems to be designed gives an unfair advantage to certain people based on nationality. I'd argue there's no ill will, but WCS's system clearly puts nationality ahead of competition. This deserves to be discussed. Let me put it this way, if the spirit of a competition is to find out who the best player is, and you intentionally funnel less competent players at the highest level of competition, are you running a tournament or a circus? Circuses are fun, people like that.
its in the nature of anything less than BO7 series. its rampant in the Olympics and international hockey, basketball and baseball competitions. in international basketball and baseball they really should just hand the US the Gold and not invite them.. and have every other country in the world fight over Silver. should the women's world hockey championship even exist? just have Canada and the US do a single BO7. no, Canada plays Sweden in 2006 because the US loses 1 game to Sweden after beating them like 15 times during the year? LOL Does any one really believe the 1988 Soviet Union had a better basketball team than the US? does any one think the 1980 US hockey team was better than the 1980 Soviet hockey team? i can go on forever with these comparisons... usually the champ of these short-time-line international events is questionable and based on 1 game. the NCAA Basketball. its all 1-game eliminations for the final 64 teams does anyone think Arizona > Kentucky in '97? and again, i can list 1000 upsets here. Is that what you want or is that what happens? I ask as someone who couldn't care less about the Olympics. Also just because you don't necessarily get the best at the end of a tournament doesn't mean you should throw the notion out of the window. Upsets happen, the worse player can get lucky - you still should have a format that promotes skill above all else though. Otherwise, like I said, it becomes a circus. It seems to me like you're saying "we can't consistently perfectly determine who's the best so we shouldn't even try" which I don't think it's what you actually believe. I mean if we extend your logic we could run everything in single elim bo1's and it's fine, we're just throwing shit at the wall and people are fine. Then the tournament becomes more about flags moving up brackets than about being good at the game. if Blizz had the resources of the NBA, MLB, or NFL they could crown an undisputed world champ. they don't have those resources therefore we get the kind of international competition you see in dozens of other competitive endeavours.
How does that justify anything?
|
On March 10 2016 04:19 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2016 04:00 Djzapz wrote:On March 10 2016 02:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On March 10 2016 01:17 Djzapz wrote:
People should use the term "discrimination" in this case. Blizzard may be the architect of a system which seems to be designed gives an unfair advantage to certain people based on nationality. I'd argue there's no ill will, but WCS's system clearly puts nationality ahead of competition. This deserves to be discussed. Let me put it this way, if the spirit of a competition is to find out who the best player is, and you intentionally funnel less competent players at the highest level of competition, are you running a tournament or a circus? Circuses are fun, people like that.
its in the nature of anything less than BO7 series. its rampant in the Olympics and international hockey, basketball and baseball competitions. in international basketball and baseball they really should just hand the US the Gold and not invite them.. and have every other country in the world fight over Silver. should the women's world hockey championship even exist? just have Canada and the US do a single BO7. no, Canada plays Sweden in 2006 because the US loses 1 game to Sweden after beating them like 15 times during the year? LOL Does any one really believe the 1988 Soviet Union had a better basketball team than the US? does any one think the 1980 US hockey team was better than the 1980 Soviet hockey team? i can go on forever with these comparisons... usually the champ of these short-time-line international events is questionable and based on 1 game. the NCAA Basketball. its all 1-game eliminations for the final 64 teams does anyone think Arizona > Kentucky in '97? and again, i can list 1000 upsets here. Is that what you want or is that what happens? I ask as someone who couldn't care less about the Olympics. Also just because you don't necessarily get the best at the end of a tournament doesn't mean you should throw the notion out of the window. Upsets happen, the worse player can get lucky - you still should have a format that promotes skill above all else though. Otherwise, like I said, it becomes a circus. It seems to me like you're saying "we can't consistently perfectly determine who's the best so we shouldn't even try" which I don't think it's what you actually believe. I mean if we extend your logic we could run everything in single elim bo1's and it's fine, we're just throwing shit at the wall and people are fine. Then the tournament becomes more about flags moving up brackets than about being good at the game. if Blizz had the resources of the NBA, MLB, or NFL they could crown an undisputed world champ. they don't have those resources therefore we get the kind of international competition you see in dozens of other competitive endeavours.
The GSL-SSL supermatch champion will pretty much be an undisputed world champ.
|
On March 10 2016 04:21 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2016 04:19 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On March 10 2016 04:00 Djzapz wrote:On March 10 2016 02:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On March 10 2016 01:17 Djzapz wrote:
People should use the term "discrimination" in this case. Blizzard may be the architect of a system which seems to be designed gives an unfair advantage to certain people based on nationality. I'd argue there's no ill will, but WCS's system clearly puts nationality ahead of competition. This deserves to be discussed. Let me put it this way, if the spirit of a competition is to find out who the best player is, and you intentionally funnel less competent players at the highest level of competition, are you running a tournament or a circus? Circuses are fun, people like that.
its in the nature of anything less than BO7 series. its rampant in the Olympics and international hockey, basketball and baseball competitions. in international basketball and baseball they really should just hand the US the Gold and not invite them.. and have every other country in the world fight over Silver. should the women's world hockey championship even exist? just have Canada and the US do a single BO7. no, Canada plays Sweden in 2006 because the US loses 1 game to Sweden after beating them like 15 times during the year? LOL Does any one really believe the 1988 Soviet Union had a better basketball team than the US? does any one think the 1980 US hockey team was better than the 1980 Soviet hockey team? i can go on forever with these comparisons... usually the champ of these short-time-line international events is questionable and based on 1 game. the NCAA Basketball. its all 1-game eliminations for the final 64 teams does anyone think Arizona > Kentucky in '97? and again, i can list 1000 upsets here. Is that what you want or is that what happens? I ask as someone who couldn't care less about the Olympics. Also just because you don't necessarily get the best at the end of a tournament doesn't mean you should throw the notion out of the window. Upsets happen, the worse player can get lucky - you still should have a format that promotes skill above all else though. Otherwise, like I said, it becomes a circus. It seems to me like you're saying "we can't consistently perfectly determine who's the best so we shouldn't even try" which I don't think it's what you actually believe. I mean if we extend your logic we could run everything in single elim bo1's and it's fine, we're just throwing shit at the wall and people are fine. Then the tournament becomes more about flags moving up brackets than about being good at the game. if Blizz had the resources of the NBA, MLB, or NFL they could crown an undisputed world champ. they don't have those resources therefore we get the kind of international competition you see in dozens of other competitive endeavours. How does that justify anything?
see my edit.
On March 10 2016 04:21 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2016 04:19 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On March 10 2016 04:00 Djzapz wrote:On March 10 2016 02:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On March 10 2016 01:17 Djzapz wrote:
People should use the term "discrimination" in this case. Blizzard may be the architect of a system which seems to be designed gives an unfair advantage to certain people based on nationality. I'd argue there's no ill will, but WCS's system clearly puts nationality ahead of competition. This deserves to be discussed. Let me put it this way, if the spirit of a competition is to find out who the best player is, and you intentionally funnel less competent players at the highest level of competition, are you running a tournament or a circus? Circuses are fun, people like that.
its in the nature of anything less than BO7 series. its rampant in the Olympics and international hockey, basketball and baseball competitions. in international basketball and baseball they really should just hand the US the Gold and not invite them.. and have every other country in the world fight over Silver. should the women's world hockey championship even exist? just have Canada and the US do a single BO7. no, Canada plays Sweden in 2006 because the US loses 1 game to Sweden after beating them like 15 times during the year? LOL Does any one really believe the 1988 Soviet Union had a better basketball team than the US? does any one think the 1980 US hockey team was better than the 1980 Soviet hockey team? i can go on forever with these comparisons... usually the champ of these short-time-line international events is questionable and based on 1 game. the NCAA Basketball. its all 1-game eliminations for the final 64 teams does anyone think Arizona > Kentucky in '97? and again, i can list 1000 upsets here. Is that what you want or is that what happens? I ask as someone who couldn't care less about the Olympics. Also just because you don't necessarily get the best at the end of a tournament doesn't mean you should throw the notion out of the window. Upsets happen, the worse player can get lucky - you still should have a format that promotes skill above all else though. Otherwise, like I said, it becomes a circus. It seems to me like you're saying "we can't consistently perfectly determine who's the best so we shouldn't even try" which I don't think it's what you actually believe. I mean if we extend your logic we could run everything in single elim bo1's and it's fine, we're just throwing shit at the wall and people are fine. Then the tournament becomes more about flags moving up brackets than about being good at the game. if Blizz had the resources of the NBA, MLB, or NFL they could crown an undisputed world champ. they don't have those resources therefore we get the kind of international competition you see in dozens of other competitive endeavours. The GSL-SSL supermatch champion will pretty much be an undisputed world champ.
fantastic  problem solved. call up Dana White and Don King and get a promoter for it.
oh right they won't take your call because there is zero chance of ever making any money on that super match.
|
On March 10 2016 00:23 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 22:07 Incognoto wrote:
Yeah this topic was just PR from blizzard, nothing of substance. ):
You wanted more PR from Blizzard earlier in this thread: Show nested quote +On March 08 2016 02:29 Incognoto wrote:
Nonetheless, the fact that she's posting here at all is a good sign. I just hope that actual listening and communication takes place.
I am particularly interested in hearing the rationale behind creating big, false tournaments (everyone except for Korean is welcome) instead of leaving the big tournaments actually open and hosting smaller, region-locked tournaments. Right now, IEM is a fake joke. It's disgusting to watch an event which specifically makes sure that the best aren't allowed to participate just because they're the best. Why click on a thread about an interview between TL and Kim Phan if you aren't interested in PR? And to complain that nothing of substance transpired... well of course, the interview is an interview just for communication. It's not a meeting or something. I don't know how you could hope for more than just words and explanations from an interview. There isn't supposed to be anything of substance that occurs at an interview. Just talking.
Yeah that was poorly worded on my part.
I think it's encouraging that there are blizzard reps posting here. However I'm still wondering if they actually take remarks and criticism into account, or if it's just a show and they're only pretending to listen. There's a nuance there and that's where my grasp of the English language failed me. When I said that "this topic was just PR", I mean that it feels like Blizzard are disconnected from the actual feelings of the community, especially when it comes to penalizing Korean players unfairly. I don't think anyone is able to disagree that it is penalizing to actually be Korean when it comes to being a professional Starcaft player. You have a lot more easier opportunities as a foreigner these days than not, since Koreans are banned from international events. This is something which I view as highly unfair and Blizzard somehow seems to think that this unfairness is a good thing; when I briefly explained these new measures to my young siblings who don't follow Starcraft, they were dumb-founded. I more highly value fair and just conditions for everyone and Blizzard is currently not doing that. There is nothing wrong with region locked tournaments, nothing at all. However it is wrong to discriminate against people of a certain nationality when hosting tournaments which are supposed to be open and international events.
This interview to me says that Blizzard is happy with the way things are and that they are seeing positive signs. The thing is, I'm not seeing these positive signs and from the looks of what I'm reading on TLnet, this is also the case for other people. THAT in turn leads me to believe that Blizzard is disconnected with the community and that this interview is only Blizzard pretending to listen.
I mean, I could be wrong, and that would be great. However, it is objectively the case that right now that certain players are being penalized merely due to their nationality. Korea is being forced to carry the weight of Blizzard's misplaced ideas.
Kim can talk about grassroot tournaments in Korea but so far nothing concrete has actually happened.
I hope that my own views are a bit more clear now, it's true that often times posting simple, cynical, one-liners doesn't do much for the discussion.
Edit: Read the rest of the thread a little. I'm right to complain because this is one of the rare instances where I believe that staying silent is the wrong call. If I were to shut up about my thoughts on these new reforms and keep my negative opinions to myself, then I would have no right whatsoever to say that Blizzard isn't listening.
|
On March 10 2016 04:19 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2016 04:00 Djzapz wrote:On March 10 2016 02:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On March 10 2016 01:17 Djzapz wrote:
People should use the term "discrimination" in this case. Blizzard may be the architect of a system which seems to be designed gives an unfair advantage to certain people based on nationality. I'd argue there's no ill will, but WCS's system clearly puts nationality ahead of competition. This deserves to be discussed. Let me put it this way, if the spirit of a competition is to find out who the best player is, and you intentionally funnel less competent players at the highest level of competition, are you running a tournament or a circus? Circuses are fun, people like that.
its in the nature of anything less than BO7 series. its rampant in the Olympics and international hockey, basketball and baseball competitions. in international basketball and baseball they really should just hand the US the Gold and not invite them.. and have every other country in the world fight over Silver. should the women's world hockey championship even exist? just have Canada and the US do a single BO7. no, Canada plays Sweden in 2006 because the US loses 1 game to Sweden after beating them like 15 times during the year? LOL Does any one really believe the 1988 Soviet Union had a better basketball team than the US? does any one think the 1980 US hockey team was better than the 1980 Soviet hockey team? i can go on forever with these comparisons... usually the champ of these short-time-line international events is questionable and based on 1 game. the NCAA Basketball. its all 1-game eliminations for the final 64 teams does anyone think Arizona > Kentucky in '97? and again, i can list 1000 upsets here. Is that what you want or is that what happens? I ask as someone who couldn't care less about the Olympics. Also just because you don't necessarily get the best at the end of a tournament doesn't mean you should throw the notion out of the window. Upsets happen, the worse player can get lucky - you still should have a format that promotes skill above all else though. Otherwise, like I said, it becomes a circus. It seems to me like you're saying "we can't consistently perfectly determine who's the best so we shouldn't even try" which I don't think it's what you actually believe. I mean if we extend your logic we could run everything in single elim bo1's and it's fine, we're just throwing shit at the wall and people are fine. Then the tournament becomes more about flags moving up brackets than about being good at the game. Determining who is "the best" in a 1 weekend event is unreliable, A BO7 played over 2 weeks is what it takes. The NBA , MLB and NHL are the only organizations with the financial mite to make that happen.
I don't know how LoL and Dota2 do it but CSGO has 3 majors a year and getting there is not easy. It's not one weekend, generally the finals last 3-4 days but there's a lengthy qualification process. The winner and the runner ups are almost always considered the best teams in the world, and the setting is such that all the best teams in the world get to qualify. The major is not rigged to allow more people of a certain nationality in, the teams which qualify generally are the best in the world. The 16 teams which qualified for the upcoming major are basically all in the top20, with 1 or 2 notable teams missing and they're not from the top10.
It manages to be representative without artificial boundaries.
|
On March 10 2016 02:39 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2016 02:37 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
As far as I am aware, the point of the Olympics IS to put nationality ahead of competition. I would rather my SC2 tournaments didn't do that. it happens in more than just the Olympics. just off the top of my head. world baseball classic, world cup of hockey, every international basketball event, every international curling event. so umm ya the world baseball classic is anti-american because of how brutally hard it is to make it into competition if you're american but its amazingly easy if you are canadian. and ya, Canada beat the US at WBC 2006. Does any one in the right mind think Jeff Francis is a better pitcher than CC Sabathia? the kind of "unfairness" being whined about in here happens all the time in dozens of international competitions every year. if you are the best curling team in the world living in Canada the odds are you'll never see an international competition because some team 1% worse than you was your opponent in some local event and you never got out of local qualifiers. there is a reasonable chance the best SC2 player inthe world will be some Korean guy who got knocked out in a local qualifier and won't come within 2,000 kilometres of Blizzcon. so what?
Sorry, too many cultural references so I have no idea what you are talking about. Also what is "there is a reasonable chance the best SC2 player inthe world will be some Korean guy who got knocked out in a local qualifier and won't come within 2,000 kilometres of Blizzcon." What is this supposed to mean?
|
On March 10 2016 05:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2016 02:39 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On March 10 2016 02:37 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
As far as I am aware, the point of the Olympics IS to put nationality ahead of competition. I would rather my SC2 tournaments didn't do that. it happens in more than just the Olympics. just off the top of my head. world baseball classic, world cup of hockey, every international basketball event, every international curling event. so umm ya the world baseball classic is anti-american because of how brutally hard it is to make it into competition if you're american but its amazingly easy if you are canadian. and ya, Canada beat the US at WBC 2006. Does any one in the right mind think Jeff Francis is a better pitcher than CC Sabathia? the kind of "unfairness" being whined about in here happens all the time in dozens of international competitions every year. if you are the best curling team in the world living in Canada the odds are you'll never see an international competition because some team 1% worse than you was your opponent in some local event and you never got out of local qualifiers. there is a reasonable chance the best SC2 player inthe world will be some Korean guy who got knocked out in a local qualifier and won't come within 2,000 kilometres of Blizzcon. so what? Sorry, too many cultural references so I have no idea what you are talking about. Also what is "there is a reasonable chance the best SC2 player inthe world will be some Korean guy who got knocked out in a local qualifier and won't come within 2,000 kilometres of Blizzcon." What is this supposed to mean?
He doesn't mind that Blizzcon is no longer meant to be the highest level of competition. If the best player doesn't manage to qualify because there are fewer spots for koreans and the level of play is undermined by this, it's fine, according to him.
Now I'd say it's unlikely that the best player would fail to qualify, but it's likely that many of the best won't, and they'll be replaced by Europeans and North American players who couldn't take a map off them on a good day. It means that bad players are eliminated at the end of the tournament rather than through the qualification process. That's not how things are supposed to be done.
|
Is this the best move for growth? Are more people going to watch? if so then its the best move.
|
On March 10 2016 08:24 ilililililililiii wrote:
Is this the best move for growth? Are more people going to watch? if so then its the best move.
If your avenue for growth is discriminating against people you're probably in for short term growth and a violent reality check shortly afterward 
|
I wasted time to read this shit, no offense.
|
On March 10 2016 04:58 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2016 00:23 NonY wrote:On March 08 2016 22:07 Incognoto wrote:
Yeah this topic was just PR from blizzard, nothing of substance. ):
You wanted more PR from Blizzard earlier in this thread: On March 08 2016 02:29 Incognoto wrote:
Nonetheless, the fact that she's posting here at all is a good sign. I just hope that actual listening and communication takes place.
I am particularly interested in hearing the rationale behind creating big, false tournaments (everyone except for Korean is welcome) instead of leaving the big tournaments actually open and hosting smaller, region-locked tournaments. Right now, IEM is a fake joke. It's disgusting to watch an event which specifically makes sure that the best aren't allowed to participate just because they're the best. Why click on a thread about an interview between TL and Kim Phan if you aren't interested in PR? And to complain that nothing of substance transpired... well of course, the interview is an interview just for communication. It's not a meeting or something. I don't know how you could hope for more than just words and explanations from an interview. There isn't supposed to be anything of substance that occurs at an interview. Just talking. Yeah that was poorly worded on my part. I think it's encouraging that there are blizzard reps posting here. However I'm still wondering if they actually take remarks and criticism into account, or if it's just a show and they're only pretending to listen. There's a nuance there and that's where my grasp of the English language failed me. When I said that "this topic was just PR", I mean that it feels like Blizzard are disconnected from the actual feelings of the community, especially when it comes to penalizing Korean players unfairly. I don't think anyone is able to disagree that it is penalizing to actually be Korean when it comes to being a professional Starcaft player. You have a lot more easier opportunities as a foreigner these days than not, since Koreans are banned from international events. This is something which I view as highly unfair and Blizzard somehow seems to think that this unfairness is a good thing; when I briefly explained these new measures to my young siblings who don't follow Starcraft, they were dumb-founded. I more highly value fair and just conditions for everyone and Blizzard is currently not doing that. There is nothing wrong with region locked tournaments, nothing at all. However it is wrong to discriminate against people of a certain nationality when hosting tournaments which are supposed to be open and international events. This interview to me says that Blizzard is happy with the way things are and that they are seeing positive signs. The thing is, I'm not seeing these positive signs and from the looks of what I'm reading on TLnet, this is also the case for other people. THAT in turn leads me to believe that Blizzard is disconnected with the community and that this interview is only Blizzard pretending to listen. I mean, I could be wrong, and that would be great. However, it is objectively the case that right now that certain players are being penalized merely due to their nationality. Korea is being forced to carry the weight of Blizzard's misplaced ideas. Kim can talk about grassroot tournaments in Korea but so far nothing concrete has actually happened. I hope that my own views are a bit more clear now, it's true that often times posting simple, cynical, one-liners doesn't do much for the discussion. Edit: Read the rest of the thread a little. I'm right to complain because this is one of the rare instances where I believe that staying silent is the wrong call. If I were to shut up about my thoughts on these new reforms and keep my negative opinions to myself, then I would have no right whatsoever to say that Blizzard isn't listening.
That has more to do with them listening to players and other people like Catz. In either case, it's all fluff and has no real weight behind it because the game isn't growing. That time has long gone and many people are aware of it. The community is what it is and you can keep adding band-aids.. hm, on second thought let's just say keep changing the makeup of your regions it's not going to do anything really though. The community is what it is. Either you please a few players/fans and leave another group shunned or vice versa. It's just going to keep dwindling.
|
On March 10 2016 04:14 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Riot got it right. Blizzard got it wrong.
Riot's "soft-lock" on the number of Koreans in their regions is great. It helps scenes improve their play while giving Koreans a fair reward for their efforts. Blizzard's "hard-lock" on Koreans is wrong no matter how you want to rationalize it and the numbers will start showing that discrimination of one ethnicity won't fix a problem that is much deeper than the idea that: "the scene is struggling because Koreans are dominating too much".
How do you do a soft lock when its not a team game?
|
agreed nationwars would be pretty cool to get going that was hype
|
On March 10 2016 04:08 jalstar wrote:
I like the new WCS system because it will eventually lead to the end of the practice of ranking Koreans by who attends the most foreign tournaments.
No more Taeja bias? Cool!
|
i'm bugged that people are thinking about this person in a non-chaste way
|
Not sure what people were expecting to read in an interview with someone like her. she's not one of those guy at Blizzard that play or is passionate about games, she's not a developer or a game designer or anything like that.
She's the guy that has meeting with the old people to talk about how to make this whole thing work money and ressources wise.
|
talk is cheap, they always promise but dont really deliver. After how hard the Korean sc2 scene was hit I really want to see if anything they say becomes true.
|
On March 10 2016 04:58 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2016 00:23 NonY wrote:On March 08 2016 22:07 Incognoto wrote:
Yeah this topic was just PR from blizzard, nothing of substance. ):
You wanted more PR from Blizzard earlier in this thread: On March 08 2016 02:29 Incognoto wrote:
Nonetheless, the fact that she's posting here at all is a good sign. I just hope that actual listening and communication takes place.
I am particularly interested in hearing the rationale behind creating big, false tournaments (everyone except for Korean is welcome) instead of leaving the big tournaments actually open and hosting smaller, region-locked tournaments. Right now, IEM is a fake joke. It's disgusting to watch an event which specifically makes sure that the best aren't allowed to participate just because they're the best. Why click on a thread about an interview between TL and Kim Phan if you aren't interested in PR? And to complain that nothing of substance transpired... well of course, the interview is an interview just for communication. It's not a meeting or something. I don't know how you could hope for more than just words and explanations from an interview. There isn't supposed to be anything of substance that occurs at an interview. Just talking. Yeah that was poorly worded on my part. I think it's encouraging that there are blizzard reps posting here. However I'm still wondering if they actually take remarks and criticism into account, or if it's just a show and they're only pretending to listen. There's a nuance there and that's where my grasp of the English language failed me. When I said that "this topic was just PR", I mean that it feels like Blizzard are disconnected from the actual feelings of the community, especially when it comes to penalizing Korean players unfairly. I don't think anyone is able to disagree that it is penalizing to actually be Korean when it comes to being a professional Starcaft player. You have a lot more easier opportunities as a foreigner these days than not, since Koreans are banned from international events. This is something which I view as highly unfair and Blizzard somehow seems to think that this unfairness is a good thing; when I briefly explained these new measures to my young siblings who don't follow Starcraft, they were dumb-founded. I more highly value fair and just conditions for everyone and Blizzard is currently not doing that. There is nothing wrong with region locked tournaments, nothing at all. However it is wrong to discriminate against people of a certain nationality when hosting tournaments which are supposed to be open and international events. This interview to me says that Blizzard is happy with the way things are and that they are seeing positive signs. The thing is, I'm not seeing these positive signs and from the looks of what I'm reading on TLnet, this is also the case for other people. THAT in turn leads me to believe that Blizzard is disconnected with the community and that this interview is only Blizzard pretending to listen. I mean, I could be wrong, and that would be great. However, it is objectively the case that right now that certain players are being penalized merely due to their nationality. Korea is being forced to carry the weight of Blizzard's misplaced ideas. Kim can talk about grassroot tournaments in Korea but so far nothing concrete has actually happened. I hope that my own views are a bit more clear now, it's true that often times posting simple, cynical, one-liners doesn't do much for the discussion. Edit: Read the rest of the thread a little. I'm right to complain because this is one of the rare instances where I believe that staying silent is the wrong call. If I were to shut up about my thoughts on these new reforms and keep my negative opinions to myself, then I would have no right whatsoever to say that Blizzard isn't listening.
What if the community is wrong? What if we're the ones missing or misinterpreting the evidence, not Blizzard? If there is a disconnect between the community's assessment of the facts and Blizzard's assessment, why does that logically mean Blizzard has to be the one at fault? While no company can ever be completely accurate, perhaps we are the ones responsible for the majority of the seeming disconnect rather than Blizzard and maybe our information (and/or the logical process we're using to analyze said information) isn't correct. Just a thought because your admittedly well-worded and well explained thought process seems to overlook that step in your analysis of the situation.
|
That is indeed a possibility. If it holds out that Blizzard is right and the community is wrong, then perhaps we should see increased viewership, more opportunities for all players regardless of their nationality, a growing scene, more exposure and more players actually playing Starcraft.
In the mean time, none of that is happening. None of that is happening and as of right now, it is penalizing to actually be a player with Korean nationality. So, I am not personally seeing the justification of discriminating Koreans from open and international events. I also know that Blizzard had 3 or 4 years to run a good and fair WCS system and that the results were not there.
Actually, maybe the results were there, only foreigners were not. You tell me.. I only see events which are supposed to be open to all players get closed off to players of a certain nationality only. Then I see Blizzard congratulating themselves for "positive signs" whereas I do not see any myself. So, I can help but wonder if Blizzard are not indeed disconnected from the community and/or reality.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
