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The SC2 Community's Identity Crisis

Forum Index > SC2 General
210 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 9 10 11 Next All

The SC2 Community's Identity Crisis

Text byOlli
Graphics byshiroiusagi
February 1st, 2016 14:46 GMT


INTRO




There’s been a lot of discussion recently about all sorts of topics - WCS, decreasing talent pool in Korea, even casting in general. What I want to address in this article is a foundation to these arguments that I think is very important to understand where a lot of people are coming from and what their arguments suggest.

I’m going to attempt to split the SC2 community in two categories: those mainly looking for fun and those interested in the highest level competition. For the sake of this argument, consider the extreme forms of these two categories mutually exclusive. Keep in mind that I’m not going to argue for or against either side in this article. This argument can be applied to every sport and esport, as Richard Lewis for example talked about in a recent article (article here). This will be about the SC2 community only, however. I will NOT be taking into consideration issues such as marketing and monetarization of SC2, whether or not different systems are sustainable, etc. These are separate issues that don’t necessarily factor into the division I’m talking about. I'm purely talking about the different types of viewers in these conflicts.

To start, I’ll explain how I define these two categories.


THE ARCHETYPES


1) The fun-oriented spectator:

The way I see it, the “mainstream” audience largely falls into this category. This is the category I would put viewers in who are primarily entertained by things such as flashy production, funny interviews and commentary, local heroes winning, trashtalk, that sort of thing. I think you can catch my train of thought on this. This category is what is commonly and perhaps a bit unfairly referred to as the “casual” community.

2) The competition-oriented spectator:

This, to me, is the part of the community that finds entertainment in watching the best players in the world play the game at the highest level, regardless of their likability outside the game. This is the part of the community that is interested in absolute, sometimes rigorous fairness, pure skill, the highest level of play, informative commentary tailored to specifically analyse the game at a high level. Commonly referred to as the “hardcore” community.

Again, these are very rough images of two general approaches I’ve perceived in the community. Don’t take these as literal definitions, let them instead give you an overall feeling of the two different "archetypes" of spectators I’m basing this entire argument on.


THE CONFLICT



The reason why I think this distinction is important is because everyone arguing about these topics I named above can generally be categorized this way and the arguments made are almost entirely based on their answers to this simple question: “Why do you follow SC2?”
You will generally get only two types of answers - fun and competition.

This entire recent conflict in our community can be reduced to this. These are the two main parties in these debates, if you will.
I am not an expert on this subject, so correct me if I’m wrong, but the following is how I feel this alienation came about. Throughout the history of SC2 and even BW before it, a large part of the community, especially on TeamLiquid, grew around the Korean scene. Following its players, becoming fans of different high-level playstyles, etc. Through this, they also became fans of players - they bridged the gap in language and culture as they originally followed players not for their personality, but their skill or playstyle at a high level.

Since then however, esports and with it SC2 have reached a broader, more mainstream audience. This happened when international tournaments were already taking place. Koreans as well as foreigners participated there. This part of the community did not grow up with the Korean scene. It did not have that time to closely follow the Korean scene and get to know its players despite the cultural barriers. Naturally, this more “casual” audience was more interested in players they could immediately identify with - local heroes, foreigners who spoke their language. But not just that, “fun” personalities like MC and PartinG who made an effort to interact with a foreign audience were also welcomed with open arms.

And this is exactly where I think the conflict began.


APPLIED TO WCS



Now, keep in mind what I’ve established so far. We now have two general “movements” that are looking for two different things - in one community. The reason why this discussion is happening now of all times should be clear as day then. WCS 2016 has introduced changes that massively cater to one of these categories as opposed to the other. By essentially banning Korean players from international tournaments, Blizzard caters to the part of the community that’s interested in the former - fun, local heroes, all that. Reminder: I am not arguing for or against this.

The Korean landscape on the other hand has two fewer tournaments, making the scene extremely unforgiving. Two bad days and a player can be sidelined from individual competition for essentially half a year. This has already happened to Blizzcon champion sOs, for example. It’s about to happen to either Maru or Zest, as those two face each other in Code A and have been eliminated from SSL. Looking at the international scene, it’s nowhere near as rough. International events happen in more regular intervals and prize money is spread more than it used to be. The same is the case in Korea by the way, but the Korean scene also has less tournaments and more top end players competing for prize money.
Surely you can see where the frustration of competition-oriented spectators is coming from, whether you agree with it or not.

This exact same division also causes arguments about casting quite frequently. There are those that would like nothing more than having every match cast by two professional players of the races involved. And then there are others that enjoy a more free-flowing, entertaining cast that incorporates jokes, memes and a generally more fun approach. Both are perfectly fine and have their own value. What’s causing these arguments recently however is that WCS, casting in general, show production, all these things, are beginning to lean more and more towards the “casual”, fun oriented part of the community.

A recent example is the cast for this match:



A lot of people loved the cast for this match. A lot of people absolutely hated it. The casting was really funny, fast paced, exciting. It was however, not at all informative. And a lot of people I’ve talked to about it while doing research for this article told me that in a deciding game 5, especially a game that’s as unique and incredible as this one, they would much rather have had a serious, informative cast to properly understand what was going on in such a wild game.
Both arguments are perfectly fine and I am absolutely not writing this to tell anyone what they should or shouldn’t be entertained by. But this example again shows how difficult it is to satisfy both of these spectator categories.


BLIZZCON AND PUNDITS



I think going forward, this is going to be the biggest issue to figure out for event organizers, casters and personalities. What do “the fans” want, considering there’s two essentially opposing archetypes of spectators? Who is it you’re catering to? What is my tournament supposed to be?
It cannot be a solution to claim that BlizzCon crowns the best player in the world, when we all know that the player pool would look entirely different if everyone in the world was given the same chances. You’re roping in both categories of people with that promotion, which means you’re bound to disappoint one of the two “divisions” of the community.

It cannot be a solution to present BlizzCon as the epitome of SC2 as a competitive sport, and then have pundits on a couch that aren’t aware of the players’ achievements over the year - the exact achievements that qualified them for BlizzCon. I was extremely disappointed when I was told that Classic was “not a top tier protoss” and that “he didn’t do as well as others” by casters at BlizzCon, when all it takes to refute that statement is a quick look at his Liquipedia page. This would have been perfectly ignorable in a less “professional” setting, but on a stage that supposedly epitomizes and celebrates the game’s highest level competition? I’m not cool with that. If you’re building BlizzCon up to be SC2’s World Cup Final the way it’s held in “real” sports - which is the feeling I got from the way it was built up and promoted by Blizzard - then do it that way. But I have to say that in a real World Cup final, poorly informed pundits would not be tolerated for a second. That’s not their job in that setting. Their job is to inform.


OUTLOOK



Now, don’t take all this as me shoving my opinions down your throat - I'm not trying to and I apologize if you feel that way. I’ve been vocal about not liking WCS in its current format, and most of you who know me will know quite clearly that I’m part of the category that enjoys high level play more than anything else. I am merely trying to put these recent conflicts into perspective and hoping that both fans and tournament organizers, as well as casters, personalities, etc. can keep this in mind when participating in arguments. This is where it all comes from, this is what it’s all fundamentally based on. Neither side is in the right or wrong here - but understanding the core of these discussions may ultimately prove key in solving them.

The ideal goal now is to find a way to walk the fine line and keep both sub-communities happy. This is what made HomestoryCup so great. It was a casual, friendly, extremely fun tournament and gave an alternative to hardcore competition. But imagine - if every tournament were like HSC, a lot of people would be unhappy about the lack of tough, "professional" tournaments. There's a place for both in our community, and it's of the utmost importance that we cater not only to one crowd. If we lean too far in either direction, large parts of our community will feel alienated.

So the solution, however difficult, should be to accommodate both. I am not an expert on how to do this, however fascinating this area may be, it's not my field of work. This is where organizers, casters, the community itself comes into play and has to take initiative to improve and figure out how to reach this common goal. But one thing is clear - we're not doing enough right now.


Writer: Olli - Olli on Twitter
Gfx: shiroiusagi - shiroiusagi on Twitter
Art Credit: Blizzard
Editor: Olli
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Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
February 01 2016 14:45 GMT
#2
wtf you didn't use EM DASHES you heathen
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
Biolunar
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany224 Posts
February 01 2016 14:48 GMT
#3
Here have some: — — — — — — — —
What is best? To crush the Zerg, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the Protoss.
Nepou
Profile Joined June 2013
France27 Posts
February 01 2016 14:54 GMT
#4
Great article, that's a very good point, it's hard, if not impossible, to please everyone.
Dingodile
Profile Joined December 2011
4133 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-01 15:13:19
February 01 2016 15:04 GMT
#5
I think this conflict started since Stephano retirement. Stephano (especially his first year) was (one of) the most pleased guy for both archetypes you described.
Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky
FrkFrJss
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada1205 Posts
February 01 2016 15:06 GMT
#6
Agreed, absurdly difficult to please either camp. I usually find myself in the middle. I prefer seeing Koreans plays, but I am also getting used to seeing foreigners play.

What I think is really cool are the rare times a foreigner crosses from being just a local hero to a legitimate threat to the top Koreans.
"Keep Moving Forward" - Walt Disney
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
February 01 2016 15:12 GMT
#7
I object to the use of the word "fun" to describe only what the casuals are looking for. "Hardcore" fans are also interested in fun, they just get it in other ways. I technicality i know, but maybe the better word to describe the casuals would have been "hype" or "drama"

Good article!
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
makmeatt
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
2024 Posts
February 01 2016 15:18 GMT
#8
since both 'camps' have very different goals, outlooks and take very different things into consideration, you cannot in good conscience expect them to form a truce of any sort, especially in this age of anonymous internet where you can smear shit all over somebody just because he doesn't like things you do. also, the way you formed that split makes the assumption of mutual exclusiveness invalid; the real division is between players pursuing high standards of play, regardless of whether they understand what it is that they are attempting, and 'players', who don't want to invest in their abilities and prefer to concentrate on all things meta. both sides are afraid of the higher authority shifting its focus from them, as if it spelled doom for their ability to continue to do whatever they do to avoid enjoying themselves.

i might not have put it precisely as i see it, but one thing's for sure: if we really want people to realize what's up, sugar coating won't help.
"Silver Edge can't break my hope" - Kryptt 2016 || "Chrono is not a debuff, you just get rekt" - Guru 2016
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
February 01 2016 15:18 GMT
#9
I think a lot of the problems are in how WCS changes were communicated. I mean we still don't really know much about upcoming tournaments right?
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
Dingodile
Profile Joined December 2011
4133 Posts
February 01 2016 15:22 GMT
#10
On February 02 2016 00:18 Ansibled wrote:
I think a lot of the problems are in how WCS changes were communicated. I mean we still don't really know much about upcoming tournaments right?

According to WCS rules, there must be 11 WCS tournaments this year before Blizzcon. We only had WCS DH Leipzig. IEM Taipeh doesn't count.
Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
February 01 2016 15:23 GMT
#11
See, I don't see that as the divide at all. Personally, I derived enjoyment from SC2 in seeing people try new and interesting things regardless of whether or not they worked. That's why, back in the day when I actually watched, Kiwikaki was one of my favorite players. The Mothership rush backed up by mass blink stalker was one of my favorites. So technically, I fall into your "fun" category because I don't give a shit that his macro was so immaculate he had 1 extra marine at 2:34 in the game, but I do find a person building a Mothership to be highly entertaining.

That said, I don't give a shit about production, I think interviews are 100% a waste of time, trashtalk is superfluous, and I really don't much care how the players are in their personal lives. I do care about local heroes winning because that makes the game more interesting for everyone regardless of competition, because then you can't just tell who's going to win by who has the South Korean flag next to their name.

While it may be because I mostly hang out on TL and haven't been on SC2 reddit in years, I've never seen anyone you defined as "casual" in the community at all. That said, I think that the real divide is whether people are OK with watching nearly exclusively Korean competition or whether or not they want some regional diversity at the expense of the highest level competition, which (honestly) at this point isn't a huge gap.
Ppjack
Profile Joined March 2015
Belgium489 Posts
February 01 2016 15:26 GMT
#12
I don't agree with your point. You make it seems like it's black or white.
The highest level of play if in Korea, but it is there because of the ecosystem. What Blizzard tries to achieve is improving the foreign ecosystem.

You said in intro that you wanted to adress the hardcore vs casual division, not the sustainability and marketability of the game, well.
Any decent starcraft fan watch korean leagues anyway, because they love the players, the sense of high competition and the game displayed.

The fracture in the community is because the so-called "hardcore" fan don't give a single shit about foreigners. They are feeling good with korean leagues because that's all they know and all they enjoy. Knowing the color of the underwear of every korean and not be able to name a good game in WCS last year won't make you an hardcore fan.

Noone is hardcore if they don't know/care about anything outside korea. They are maybe "purists" but not hardcore.
Same in any sport, one watch only champions league other watch and get informed about a lot more stuff. Because you watch only champions league don't make you the biggest fan of the fans. The other way around I would say.

To think about the casting. You take this game as an example of the casual casting, what the wild crowd would like to see, versus what should be an hardcore casting. This is nonsence because it was just a fun moment (which I did not really like) but will never be the norm.
As in any sport, one must lead the flow of the game, and another must be more analytical. This particular game was not representative at all of what you think a casual casting is.
To me this point has just no sense. Because it is not linked at all with the division of the community. The casting has always be fine and worked more or less well depending on the alchemy and mood of the casters, plus the importance of the game.

The solution should be accomodate both?
But I don't know any "casual" fan that know PtitDrogo and Snute, but don't know who Maru / MMA / Life / herO / etc.... are.

That is why I think your article is nonsense. Casual tend to follow the biggest level of play, so called korean level.

The obsession with entertaining foreigners comes from nowhere. They are entertaining sometimes, tournaments such as Nation Wars were really fun. It is just a fact.
People are not casual and here just for the fun like you think.
They take the fun when it shows up. That's all. Don't make them an archetype.
<;o)
Gwavajuice
Profile Joined June 2014
France1810 Posts
February 01 2016 15:31 GMT
#13
For the sake of this argument, consider the two mutually exclusive.


Very simplistic way of seeing things, and an already biased way of describing people's opinion about the WCS system. I don't think you can get anything relevant from this starting point.

Thinking that the opinion people have about WCS is just about this artificial "fun vs high skill" categorization is a cliche and can only lead to a cliche conclusion.

Now, don’t take all this as me shoving my opinions down your throat - I'm not trying to and I apologize if you feel that way. I’ve been vocal about not liking WCS in its current format, and most of you who know me will know quite clearly that I’m part of the category that enjoys high level play more than anything else.


And bam! Your biased starting point end up in a biased conclusion. You miss that the whole point of WCS region lock could be to develop the skill of foreigners and to end up with an even higher level of play worldwide. You locked into your "foreigner = funny low skill guys vs Koreans = superior skilled players which can only be appreciated by people like me".

Reallisticly, the core of your opinion may just be conservatism and lack of long term view, and not the "love of high level play" (that, quite franckly, everybody has)

Don't go for simplistic categorization, they always end up being wrong. Above all, don't think other's opinion is different that yours because they're not educated enough in elite sc2 play.
Dear INno and all the former STX boys.
amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
February 01 2016 15:35 GMT
#14
At least people are starting to talk about the inherent problems with sc2, even if this was years overdue.
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
aQuaSC
Profile Joined August 2011
717 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-01 15:36:30
February 01 2016 15:36 GMT
#15
Dividing fans into those in it for fun and those for competition (which as article suggests is only the tournaments having Koreans) is wrong, I mean can I be both? Because I am
TL+ Member
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-01 15:38:29
February 01 2016 15:36 GMT
#16
On February 02 2016 00:31 Gwavajuice wrote:
Show nested quote +
For the sake of this argument, consider the two mutually exclusive.


Very simplistic way of seeing things, and an already biased way of describing people's opinion about the WCS system. I don't think you can get anything relevant from this starting point.

Thinking that the opinion people have about WCS is just about this artificial "fun vs high skill" categorization is a cliche and can only lead to a cliche conclusion.

Show nested quote +
Now, don’t take all this as me shoving my opinions down your throat - I'm not trying to and I apologize if you feel that way. I’ve been vocal about not liking WCS in its current format, and most of you who know me will know quite clearly that I’m part of the category that enjoys high level play more than anything else.


And bam! Your biased starting point end up in a biased conclusion. You miss that the whole point of WCS region lock could be to develop the skill of foreigners and to end up with an even higher level of play worldwide. You locked into your "foreigner = funny low skill guys vs Koreans = superior skilled players which can only be appreciated by people like me".

Reallisticly, the core of your opinion may just be conservatism and lack of long term view, and not the "love of high level play" (that, quite franckly, everybody has)

Don't go for simplistic categorization, they always end up being wrong. Above all, don't think other's opinion is different that yours because they're not educated enough in elite sc2 play.


You seem to have completely missed the message of the article because you got hung up on something I said in the introduction. That's quite ironic considering it's exactly what you're accusing me of.

What you quoted is not my conclusion. My conclusion is that there needs to be compromise to accommodate as many in the community as possible and not drive them out. If that's what you call black and white, sure? Can't say I agree with you though.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Gemini_19
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1238 Posts
February 01 2016 15:41 GMT
#17
On February 02 2016 00:31 Gwavajuice wrote:
You miss that the whole point of WCS region lock could be to develop the skill of foreigners and to end up with an even higher level of play worldwide.


How does keeping the foreigners from playing against the best end up making them higher level players?
@GGemini19 GM Protoss | http://www.twitch.tv/geminisc2 | I <333 HerO & Trap | Check out my Build of the Week series on /r/allthingsprotoss, TL, or Spawning Tool
Silvana
Profile Blog Joined September 2013
3713 Posts
February 01 2016 15:42 GMT
#18
Surprising topic and surprised about being DarkLordOlli who wrote it... When are we gonna get a PvP special? You need to teach people to enjoy the actions that build up to the stage of Disruptor wars!

Could it be that the two "divisions" also have different tastes on the type of games and players they enjoy more? I suspect casuals probably enjoy watching Maru, and hardcores enjoy the beauty of sOs' mind; although sOs is so badass that he's probably conquering the casuals hearts too! and you can't be hardcode enough to resist Maru's cuteness...
Mozdk
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark6989 Posts
February 01 2016 15:42 GMT
#19
About that game 5 of TLO and Snute.

When I saw it I really liked it. But I saw it more as a joke. As a caricature of fake hyped casters. Am I the only one who got that impression?

In generel I like analytic casts. But once in a while, the hype cast can be fun. If what Nate and Kaelaris did that game was standard, I would watch with sound off for sure. It would annoy me in the long run.
"It's really hard to Protoss" - White-Ra |||| "Apedts are dfucking amazing" - Lorning
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-01 15:48:07
February 01 2016 15:46 GMT
#20
I don't think the casual vs hard-core dichotomy is artificial.

Take Blizzcon. Would you rather have a stronger region-lock system which ensures diversity of players and storylines like 2016 (casual) or a stronger meritocracy system which features only the best players like 2015 (hard-core)?

Imagine if you only had 5 hours of free time this week to watch SC2 (maybe your wife/girlfriend imposed a quota). Would you rather watch DH Leipzig (casual) or GSL (hard-core)?

Yes, you can be both a casual and hard-core fan. But ultimately, one type is stronger in you than the other. And so the dichotomy, even though not strictly mutually exclusive, is real and matters for the future of SC2.
gg no re thx
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