EPTLife arrested on match-fixing charges - Page 58
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On February 14 2016 08:59 Seeker wrote: Starting from this page on, I will be moderating more harshly toward any mention of MarineKing's name. This thread has NOTHING to do with MarineKing. Do not talk about MarineKing even if you are defending him. Just don't do it. Please no match-fixing accusations on MarineKing or any other player if it has not officially been confirmed. This goes for other players too. -The_Templar | ||
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kagamin
United States191 Posts
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On February 06 2016 01:45 Swisslink wrote: Is Korea as strict as the US in this regard? I'd assume, an American company would basically go bankrupt if they kicked out a player who's later proven to be innocent. (assuming he is innocent, of course) In a court of law you are never found innocent, you are either found guilty or not guilty. Innocence is never even on the board. The only item of interest is whether the prosecution has fulfilled its burden of proof, ie demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On February 05 2016 20:41 Hassan_RO wrote: Goodbye dear SC fanboy. I can only say i was once like you and i watched SC from the time BoxeR played BW. I LOVED to watch MarineKing play against Nestea in the first GSLs. I LOVED to watch MC win and see his exhilarating personality......and so on and so on........... I would say many other cold, hard and true things about SC2 today, but you are right, this site was built around this golden relic, it does not make sense to do so. if you would read my post carefully you would see that it is not one event, it is a lot of things, among which the years-old stagnant meta, with only minor changes in the long-awaited LotV, the very low quality of casting compared to previous' years GSLs - especially Tasteless&Artosis, the drastic reduction of the scene, both in term of players and in term of casters who left for greener pastures/other games....this one event being the last straw, the competition that i watch, with stagnant meta and bored casters, could actually be a fix, anytime. Good Bye Giving you way too much attention, but this is classic. Do not confuse your lack of interest with the scene getting worse. Not many people can stay interested in the same game before getting bored and moving on. That's fine, but don't blame sc2. A little introspection is in order. You have no way of knowing the greats of the past weren't match fixing. There was even more money back then. No good casters? Rotterdam and Nathanias are mid/top gms on NA now. Tod is top gm. Incontrol is top gm. We really are blessed to have our foreign casters. Stagnant meta? It's changing faster than ever. Though this fits right in with you getting bored. A stagnant meta isn't a bad thing. It means the top players can stay at the top and not get surprised by random shit which makes them lose. So ye, GTFO. User was warned for this post | ||
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Swisslink
2950 Posts
On February 06 2016 02:47 Wuster wrote: Define found innocent? There have been a few high profile cases in the US where the professional sports leagues tried to penalize players who later got it overturned. But none of them managed to sue for damages: Latrell Sprewell got his contract revoked by the league after choking his coach, but he got it back on appeal. Ryan Braun got caught doping, but after appeal had his suspension completely removed and got to keep his MVP. Neither of them sued for damages successfully. Besides, there's nothing KeSPA could/should have done. Life being in custody is a pretty good excuse for forfeiting someone. After all, you have to show up at the studio to not get disqualified... Okay, didn't know of these cases, but after I checked these cases, they seem quite a bit different. Especially Sprewell was still guilty, just the contract situation got resolved. Life on the other hand - an individual athlet - would have lost half a year of tournaments + quite a bit of his income because individual sports athlets probably gain most of their income through tournament winnings. (In team sports that's quite a bit different of course. And as far as I'm concerned, Sprewell and Braun still got their salary, didn't they? Beside the 10 days period of Latrell Sprewell's ban without payment (at least that's how it's stated on Wikipedia) I'd just assume that there's some way to get some compensation for being held in custody if you turn out to be 'not guilty' in the eyes of the law. On February 06 2016 07:19 kagamin wrote: Ugh, this sucks. You can see when the observer selects the scouting ol that it changes direction without the queue indicator. That means life manually selected the ol and moved it away when it was in vision of the creep. That really sucks... why, Life, why??? T_T Again, it was a matter of maybe a 1/10 of a second. He might just have thought he should see the creep at this point, checked the minimap, didn't see it and sent the overlord to the next base. I'm not saying it's out of question he didn't do it on purpose, I'm just saying such a minor mistake can definitely happen. We've seen WAY worse stuff happen in progames. | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
I'd just assume that there's some way to get some compensation for being held in custody if you turn out to be 'not guilty' in the eyes of the law. Generally you get compensated for lost income and any other expenses incurred by being incarcerated. If you end up suffering futher problems by being held in custody, like missing studies for instance, you can demand further compensation, which may or may not be approved. This is how it works in Sweden at least, but I'm reasonably sure most democracies have similar systems in place. | ||
NovemberstOrm
Canada16217 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On February 06 2016 07:32 Squat wrote: In a court of law you are never found innocent, you are either found guilty or not guilty. Innocence is never even on the board. The only item of interest is whether the prosecution has fulfilled its burden of proof, ie demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty. Semantics? I don't see a difference between "not guilty" and "innocent". Are you a law student? | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On February 06 2016 08:19 Shield wrote: Semantics? I don't see a difference between "not guilty" and "innocent". Are you a law student? Yes, and the difference is more than mere semantics. Proving someone's Innocence means it is conclusively demonstrated that they did not commit whatever crime they are accused of. The defense has no such burden, all they need to show is that the prosecution has failed to fulfil their burden of proof. It's like this, sort of: The default position in any trial is not guilty, and it is up to the prosecution to make its case for changing the verdict to guilty. By contrast, the defense has no obligation to move the verdict from the starting position of not guilty, i.e. insufficient evidence has been presented to conclude that the defendant is guilty, to a position where the defendant is proven innocent. Basically, if it's a draw, the defendant wins by default. Being acquitted as not guilty says nothing about whether you actually committed a crime or not, merely that the prosecution was unable to provide adequate evidence of your being guilty. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On February 06 2016 08:19 Shield wrote: Semantics? I don't see a difference between "not guilty" and "innocent". Are you a law student? MKP was found not guilty of match fixing (not in a court of law, mind) because of lack of proof. Would you bet your life and the lives of your loved ones that he didn't fix that game? That's the difference between not guilty and innocent. | ||
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LSN
Germany696 Posts
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Kaeque
22 Posts
Unless it's some big scheme to take him out of Code S | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On February 06 2016 08:52 LSN wrote: That life game is 100% fixed. Which game are you refering to ? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44052 Posts
On February 06 2016 08:52 LSN wrote: That life game is 100% fixed. Link to video please, and why/ timestamp? | ||
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LSN
Germany696 Posts
On January 31 2016 19:43 egernya wrote: So this is the game that Korean scene's the most suspicious about. Especially because on Korean version of the vod, casters said that something like this cannot happen, and Life smiled when he saw Solar's zerglings that he couldn't defend, and at 3:00, Life had a weird face for a moment when the overlord turns after him seeing the creep. Why? That mistake cannot only not happen on pro-level, it cannot even happen on low-master level if the player is not drunken. At this stage of the game players have nothing much else to do than checking these scouting things. In no way anyone would return his overlord before a 100% scout, especially because the overlord is anyway useless for a pretty long time if the opponent is not on this position on this map. There is no relevant potential net gain in letting the overlord return a few seconds earlier as well. Presuming all this happens out of carelessness is quite naive, I'd say. In the meantime his facial and body expressions from the start to the end of the game in no way show a player that is focused on or worried about winning a match and in the end of the game more tell the story of a plan that worked out and happiness than anything else. And I don't only mean the laughing and smiling at all with that. Some guys cannot hide stuff well enough I guess, especially younger ones. For me this is 100%. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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nighcol
298 Posts
On February 06 2016 09:19 LSN wrote: Well the one that was linked earlier and ppl were refering to ... Why? That mistake cannot only not happen on pro-level, it cannot even happen on low-master level if the player is not drunken. At this stage of the game players have nothing much else to do than checking these scouting things. In no way anyone would return his overlord before a 100% scout, especially because the overlord is anyway useless for a pretty long time if the opponent is not on this position on this map. There is no relevant potential net gain in letting the overlord return a few seconds earlier as well. Presuming all this happens out of carelessness is quite naive, I'd say. In the meantime his facial and body expressions from the start to the end of the game in no way show a player that is focused on or worried about winning a match and in the end of the game more tell the story of a plan that worked out and happiness than anything else. And I don't only mean the laughing and smiling at all with that. Some guys cannot hide stuff well enough I guess, especially younger ones. For me this is 100%. Scarlett said earlier in this thread that she had made the exact same mistake on the same exact map. I think you need to reconsider your claim that "it can't happen" to a sober low-master level player. | ||
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
On February 06 2016 09:19 LSN wrote: Well the one that was linked earlier and ppl were refering to ... Why? That mistake cannot only not happen on pro-level, it cannot even happen on low-master level if the player is not drunken. At this stage of the game players have nothing much else to do than checking these scouting things. In no way anyone would return his overlord before a 100% scout, especially because the overlord is anyway useless for a pretty long time if the opponent is not on this position on this map. There is no relevant potential net gain in letting the overlord return a few seconds earlier as well. Presuming all this happens out of carelessness is quite naive, I'd say. In the meantime his facial and body expressions from the start to the end of the game in no way show a player that is focused on or worried about winning a match and in the end of the game more tell the story of a plan that worked out and happiness than anything else. And I don't only mean the laughing and smiling at all with that. Some guys cannot hide stuff well enough I guess, especially younger ones. For me this is 100%. I don't want your opinion changed since you seem so sure, just wanna point out that for the moment, we're talking about possible match fixing in 2015. | ||
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LSN
Germany696 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44052 Posts
On February 06 2016 09:19 LSN wrote: Well the one that was linked earlier and ppl were refering to ... Why? That mistake cannot only not happen on pro-level, it cannot even happen on low-master level if the player is not drunken. At this stage of the game players have nothing much else to do than checking these scouting things. In no way anyone would return his overlord before a 100% scout, especially because the overlord is anyway useless for a pretty long time if the opponent is not on this position on this map. There is no relevant potential net gain in letting the overlord return a few seconds earlier as well. Presuming all this happens out of carelessness is quite naive, I'd say. In the meantime his facial and body expressions from the start to the end of the game in no way show a player that is focused on or worried about winning a match and in the end of the game more tell the story of a plan that worked out and happiness than anything else. And I don't only mean the laughing and smiling at all with that. Some guys cannot hide stuff well enough I guess, especially younger ones. For me this is 100%. Thank you for reposting it and explaining  Personally, I've seen plenty of honest mistakes at even the highest levels of play, so this alone isn't enough to convince me that Life was cheating. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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