EPTBut I am curious if some Mondragon's or Grubby's or Stephano's can still arise. Or if this Koreans are to good mentality we saw at Blizzcon will become the norm.
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
But I am curious if some Mondragon's or Grubby's or Stephano's can still arise. Or if this Koreans are to good mentality we saw at Blizzcon will become the norm. | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
On December 22 2015 17:46 FeyFey wrote: good thing my only issue with the new system is that they went from hey koreans move over and help the rest of the world improve, into nope sorry you gotta go within a few years. But I am curious if some Mondragon's or Grubby's or Stephano's can still arise. Or if this Koreans are to good mentality we saw at Blizzcon will become the norm. Lilbow will train so hard that he will win the next blizzcon. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15868 Posts
On December 22 2015 16:59 Horiken wrote: I'm so shocked that a lot of people thinks this Korean-dominated scene is healthy. I thouhg everyone think this should be fixed. It is no doubt Korean is destroying the global scene and popularity of this game(of course, it's not Korean's fault, but Blizzard's bad 2013 WCS system). If you doubt, ask other e-sports title fan how do they think Korean-dominated scene. LoL fan was crazy about Korean vs Korean final, even though a lot of foreign team participates Worlds. Blizzard finally start to fix this with this sysytem. This may lose a lot (Korean talent, viewers, possibly sponsors...) but this is what must be done someday. 8 WCS circuit player destroyed by WCS Korean player? What is the problem? In football worldcup, only Europe/south America team will win, but half of spot is given for Asia/Africa/North Amreica(14.5 or 15.5/32 ). Asian team rarely make good decision, but they have 4.5 spot. At least in Blizzcon, bottom 8 player will not appear, they appear only small studio 1 week before Blizzcon. I don't know what is the problem. You want 12-hour-long Bo5×8 day at the cost of this game's future? You may think it's ok if SC2 becomes Korean local e-sports(just like BW), but at least Blizzard and some fan don't think so. it may be healthy for the foreigner scene but i don't really care. All my favourite players are koreans and without koreans there is no point in watching it. last year I already didn't watch WCS premier except for semifinals/finals despite watching nearly every game of gsl/ssl/proleague. Those players just aren't interesting for me. | ||
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Ingvar
Russian Federation421 Posts
On December 22 2015 17:46 FeyFey wrote: But I am curious if some Mondragon's or Grubby's or Stephano's can still arise. Or if this Koreans are to good mentality we saw at Blizzcon will become the norm. Don't you mention Stephano and WCS Curcuit together. Stephano played against Koreans all over the world and beat them to win his titles, went to Korea to compete in GSL (and was a Code S player) and has a winning record in Proleague. He is exactly the opposite of current system. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
It is weird to say: "You won, so you are out." This will become a "Losers watching losers" event. | ||
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Swisslink
2949 Posts
On December 22 2015 16:38 FFW_Rude wrote: Monday and Tuesday at 10am. I have a thing called work. And watching French cast is like asking me to swallow a big full off spiders. No KR at events is just plain stupid. I just don't get it. Hey ! We don't like spanish. TOO STRONG !!! Hey Nadal ? You have French Residency ? No ? Then go fuck yourself for Rolland Garros. Hey ! You dirty strangers ? French residecy ? Then shove your bike up your ass ! No tour de france for you.. Yup.. That sound about right. I wonder what people would say hum.... Na, it's more like: 'Spain too strong. Nadal, got a Spanish passport? You're out! Everyone's allowed to participate but Spanish guys!' On December 22 2015 16:59 Horiken wrote: I'm so shocked that a lot of people thinks this Korean-dominated scene is healthy. I thouhg everyone think this should be fixed. It is no doubt Korean is destroying the global scene and popularity of this game(of course, it's not Korean's fault, but Blizzard's bad 2013 WCS system). If you doubt, ask other e-sports title fan how do they think Korean-dominated scene. LoL fan was crazy about Korean vs Korean final, even though a lot of foreign team participates Worlds. Blizzard finally start to fix this with this sysytem. This may lose a lot (Korean talent, viewers, possibly sponsors...) but this is what must be done someday. 8 WCS circuit player destroyed by WCS Korean player? What is the problem? In football worldcup, only Europe/south America team will win, but half of spot is given for Asia/Africa/North Amreica(14.5 or 15.5/32 ). Asian team rarely make good decision, but they have 4.5 spot. At least in Blizzcon, bottom 8 player will not appear, they appear only small studio 1 week before Blizzcon. I don't know what is the problem. You want 12-hour-long Bo5×8 day at the cost of this game's future? You may think it's ok if SC2 becomes Korean local e-sports(just like BW), but at least Blizzard and some fan don't think so. Again the individual sports vs team sports comparison, which is bad, but your statement is wrong as well. Yes, Africa/Asia/North America get some spots, but if they are too weak to compete, they'll lose a spot. Good example: Oceania lost their only spot when Australia switched to Asia. FIFA does one thing right: They try to support football all over the world and they do so without screwing an entire region. If a region is stronger, they get more spots. The weaker regions get their representation as well, but only as long as they are not too weak to even stand a chance. Again: I don't think anyone is against the attempt to revive the foreign scene. The problem is that you're better off in EU/NA or the entire world than Korea, while Korea is by far the strongest region. That's like giving the Champion of the Oceanian continental championship more money than the European Champion and that's just ridiculous. We need a healthy scene. But for a healthy scene, we need smaller local tournaments. Like, really local. Let's say some European tournaments where no one else is allowed to play. Some American tournaments where no one is allowed to play etc. But these tournaments shouldn't be as huge as DreamHack or IEM, because that's not how it should be done. And no other sports I can think of does it like that to support a weaker scene. Tennis for example has national championships. They're good to have, but as soon as you're good enough to participate in any Grand Slam tournaments, you don't really need them anymore. And this is how it should be in SCII as well. Some money has to be thrown at local heroes, but not on this big stage as it is done right now, but on a smaller stage to keep them motivated And it's really nice to have a few foreigners at pre-Blizzcon. I don't argue that none should be there. What I do argue is that they don't deserve 8/16 spots. 3-4 would have been enough. Then we'd still have 12-13 Koreans there, which would not be too big of a deal, but having 8 players there which won't stand a chance in any of their games is just not healthy for the scene in general. | ||
Liquid`Bunny
Denmark145 Posts
I was making a joke based on the responses to this post :D The dreamhack experience for any foreigner in the past 2 years is pretty much this: You practice a ton and try your best, maybe if it's a really good day you beat some koreans in group stage 3 and get to the bracket stage, only to inevitably lose in the quarter finals to some strategies you've never played against before. It's gonna be nice to feel there's a chance to win this time. | ||
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jeeeKyyy
35 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On December 22 2015 18:35 Swisslink wrote: Na, it's more like: 'Spain too strong. Nadal, got a Spanish passport? You're out! Everyone's allowed to participate but Spanish guys!' Again the individual sports vs team sports comparison, which is bad, but your statement is wrong as well. Yes, Africa/Asia/North America get some spots, but if they are too weak to compete, they'll lose a spot. Good example: Oceania lost their only spot when Australia switched to Asia. FIFA does one thing right: They try to support football all over the world and they do so without screwing an entire region. If a region is stronger, they get more spots. The weaker regions get their representation as well, but only as long as they are not too weak to even stand a chance. Again: I don't think anyone is against the attempt to revive the foreign scene. The problem is that you're better off in EU/NA or the entire world than Korea, while Korea is by far the strongest region. That's like giving the Champion of the Oceanian continental championship more money than the European Champion and that's just ridiculous. We need a healthy scene. But for a healthy scene, we need smaller local tournaments. Like, really local. Let's say some European tournaments where no one else is allowed to play. Some American tournaments where no one is allowed to play etc. But these tournaments shouldn't be as huge as DreamHack or IEM, because that's not how it should be done. And no other sports I can think of does it like that to support a weaker scene. Tennis for example has national championships. They're good to have, but as soon as you're good enough to participate in any Grand Slam tournaments, you don't really need them anymore. And this is how it should be in SCII as well. Some money has to be thrown at local heroes, but not on this big stage as it is done right now, but on a smaller stage to keep them motivated And it's really nice to have a few foreigners at pre-Blizzcon. I don't argue that none should be there. What I do argue is that they don't deserve 8/16 spots. 3-4 would have been enough. Then we'd still have 12-13 Koreans there, which would not be too big of a deal, but having 8 players there which won't stand a chance in any of their games is just not healthy for the scene in general. On your last point I imagine if they didn't do the silly guarantee 8 spots for everyone else thing it would have worked out like you said. With less Korean tournaments, and little to no Koreans travelling to steal all those DH/IEM points you'd get the best performing foreigners making it for sure. Seems overkill to force 8 of them in. You could end up with some veeeery weak(relatively) players in the 16. On December 22 2015 19:06 jeeeKyyy wrote: Sorry, but LoL community seems better. At least they dont produce negative shit like you. The only way how to bring more players is to offer them more money which is exactly what WCS does. Get them our Europeans some money, get them hope they can finallly win. In the best scenario they will start practising harder and eventually they will win against your praised Koreans. Tbh, sacrifice one or two years without Koreans and maybe we will get something like LoL has in their LCS - Worlds format. But it is always better to put a fight than just watch sc2 dying slowly. Because you know, thats what is happening. Did you watch LoL worlds? 3 Korean teams. Two made the grand final and the other got eliminated by another Korean team. They're just as Korean dominated as SC2 is right now. | ||
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xdevilx2
Germany38 Posts
On December 22 2015 18:53 Liquid`Bunny wrote: I was making a joke based on the responses to this post :D The dreamhack experience for any foreigner in the past 2 years is pretty much this: You practice a ton and try your best, maybe if it's a really good day you beat some koreans in group stage 3 and get to the bracket stage, only to inevitably lose in the quarter finals to some strategies you've never played against before. It's gonna be nice to feel there's a chance to win this time. I don't think many people have a problem with a region lock per se, but what bothers me is that there is nothing being done to support the korean scene. 2 less seasons of GSL/SSL and all foreign tournaments are gone. Great... | ||
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HsDLTitich
Italy824 Posts
Also I'm pretty sure that some teams were already planning to bring koreans to the tournament (TES comes in mind with TOP), I don't know if they've already bought tickets for plans and hotel but they're pretty screwed by this late announcement lol. | ||
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Stormhoof
Serbia182 Posts
There will not be like more small regionals qualifiers? | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
It's going to be interesting to see if the loosing of some viewers will be compensated by new "casual" viewers. The first tournament might have good numbers due to the novelty effect, but the next ones will be an interesting experiment. | ||
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Growiel
Korea (South)363 Posts
On December 22 2015 18:53 Liquid`Bunny wrote: I was making a joke based on the responses to this post :D The dreamhack experience for any foreigner in the past 2 years is pretty much this: You practice a ton and try your best, maybe if it's a really good day you beat some koreans in group stage 3 and get to the bracket stage, only to inevitably lose in the quarter finals to some strategies you've never played against before. It's gonna be nice to feel there's a chance to win this time. Sure but is the win the same if all the top competition is locked away ? I can win against my brother in a "nobody but us" tournament, does not make me any good. | ||
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Liquid`Snute
Norway839 Posts
Massive money and support... I just hope there are opportunities for the best performing players somewhere down the line, more than once per year, to play vs Korean competition. EU-KR love all the way ~ | ||
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HsDLTitich
Italy824 Posts
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
On December 22 2015 19:50 Liquid`Snute wrote: As someone who usually would lose to the champion or someone KeSPA 2-3 in bracket stages of whatever DH/IEM Ro8 it's nice to see that a Ro8 finish here nets $500 more. but ... oh ... right ... lolol .... >_< Massive money and support... I just hope there are opportunities for the best performing players somewhere down the line, more than once per year, to play vs Korean competition. EU-KR love all the way ~ You know, you are our hero. You brought us the amazing matches against the two protosses on IEM last year. These were the matches, we were looking forward to the whole year. Not to GSL, SSL ... not to WCS. And now, it is gone. There will be no opportunities to repeat it. At least, I hope, you will show good games in the RO16 group at BlizzCon. | ||
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
On December 22 2015 19:56 Diabolique wrote: You know, you are our hero. You brought us the amazing matches against the two protosses on IEM last year. These were the matches, we were looking forward to the whole year. Not to GSL, SSL ... not to WCS. And now, it is gone. There will be no opportunities to repeat it. At least, I hope, you will show good games in the RO16 group at BlizzCon. Wow it's your first post that I see when you don't shit on a foreigner lol | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
On December 22 2015 20:05 aQuaSC wrote: Wow it's your first post that I see when you don't shit on a foreigner lol I guess, you must be blind. Or you are on TL pages for a few days, right? | ||
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SuperHofmann
Italy1741 Posts
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