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Canada8989 Posts
On December 22 2015 10:55 ChillingFrog89 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 10:22 Nakajin wrote:On December 22 2015 10:17 ChillingFrog89 wrote:On December 22 2015 09:58 stuchiu wrote:
SC2 fans can enjoy what they want, they dont have a moral obligation to watch every event. it is disappointing but you are correct, these sc2 tournament is descending from esport which were competitve to merely a event now. How is that anything close to what he was saying? region locking defies fair competition, this is against the moral of sportsmanship, it is literally just an event ,and it is not qualify to be called sports/esports.
I am not a big fan of region locking either, it was just the phrasing that felt weird I guess since stuchiu did not seem to have said that at all, event is not a derogatory term in SC2, it just mean a weekend type tournament. Unless I miss something.
But ya I understand what you mean
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On December 22 2015 12:08 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 12:02 Kofuku wrote:On December 22 2015 09:40 bypLy wrote:
It will be a lowtier and boring tournement because the approx 50 best players worldwide are missing. Image this is any other sports... Actually in other sports region locking is pretty common. The Liga ACB is probably the second best non-tournament basketball league in the world and it basically has a limitation of two Americans per team. It's not the NBA, but it's also not meant to be the NBA and can't really compete against the NBA. And still, it has its own important niche and a passionate fan base. I'm looking forward to this event, and to other WCS Circuit events, and to GSL, and to S2SL. There's enough room in my heart to love all SC2 events <3 Yeah, I don't know why everyone is so surprised that region locking isn't a new or uncommon practice. I'm also looking forward to this. I enjoy the Korean tournaments more, but I'll enjoy this more than 1/2 and 1/2 events where the ro16 (minus 1 or 2) are predictable.
Don't get why people keep mentioning team sports having region locking.
Last time I checked sc2 is played as an individual not a team sport.
Plus it isn't competition with restricted "limited" amount of players from one region, but accepting every region but one effectively banning every Korean.
EDIT: Plus why are discussing policies of secondary leagues?
WCS Circuit: eligible countries and regions
Europe, Africa, Middle East
North America (USA, Canada)
Latin America
China
Oceania, Southeast Asia, Japan
Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau
Could've saved time and just wrote, EVERYONE BUT KOREANS.
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On December 22 2015 12:25 MaCRo.gg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 12:08 y0su wrote:On December 22 2015 12:02 Kofuku wrote:On December 22 2015 09:40 bypLy wrote:
It will be a lowtier and boring tournement because the approx 50 best players worldwide are missing. Image this is any other sports... Actually in other sports region locking is pretty common. The Liga ACB is probably the second best non-tournament basketball league in the world and it basically has a limitation of two Americans per team. It's not the NBA, but it's also not meant to be the NBA and can't really compete against the NBA. And still, it has its own important niche and a passionate fan base. I'm looking forward to this event, and to other WCS Circuit events, and to GSL, and to S2SL. There's enough room in my heart to love all SC2 events <3 Yeah, I don't know why everyone is so surprised that region locking isn't a new or uncommon practice. I'm also looking forward to this. I enjoy the Korean tournaments more, but I'll enjoy this more than 1/2 and 1/2 events where the ro16 (minus 1 or 2) are predictable. Don't get why people keep mentioning team sports having region locking. Last time I checked sc2 is played as an individual not a team sport. Plus it isn't competition with restricted "limited" amount of players from one region, but accepting every region but one effectively banning every Korean. EDIT: Plus why are discussing policies of secondary leagues? WCS Circuit: eligible countries and regions
Europe, Africa, Middle East North America (USA, Canada) Latin America China Oceania, Southeast Asia, Japan Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau Could've saved time and just wrote, EVERYONE BUT KOREANS.
I think the analogy is a lot closer than you think, since there are also team-sponsored Korean players who really will be eligible for the WCS Circuit. I understand the team/individual competition difference, but really the basic point is that region locking will diminish the quality of competition. Nobody argues that this isn't the case.
I'm just trying to point out that people, for various interesting reasons, still have a lot of fun watching sports competitions and leagues that, because of player nationality restrictions, are clearly not the absolute highest levels of competition available  I'm one of those people for other sports, so I'm at least willing to give WCS Circuit events a try.
EDIT: And the bigger point, for people who are worried about the state of the game, is that many of these region-locked sports leagues are also successful in their own rights. Another example is KBO itself, with its American player limitation
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On December 22 2015 12:25 MaCRo.gg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 12:08 y0su wrote:On December 22 2015 12:02 Kofuku wrote:On December 22 2015 09:40 bypLy wrote:
It will be a lowtier and boring tournement because the approx 50 best players worldwide are missing. Image this is any other sports... Actually in other sports region locking is pretty common. The Liga ACB is probably the second best non-tournament basketball league in the world and it basically has a limitation of two Americans per team. It's not the NBA, but it's also not meant to be the NBA and can't really compete against the NBA. And still, it has its own important niche and a passionate fan base. I'm looking forward to this event, and to other WCS Circuit events, and to GSL, and to S2SL. There's enough room in my heart to love all SC2 events <3 Yeah, I don't know why everyone is so surprised that region locking isn't a new or uncommon practice. I'm also looking forward to this. I enjoy the Korean tournaments more, but I'll enjoy this more than 1/2 and 1/2 events where the ro16 (minus 1 or 2) are predictable. Don't get why people keep mentioning team sports having region locking. Last time I checked sc2 is played as an individual not a team sport. Plus it isn't competition with restricted "limited" amount of players from one region, but accepting every region but one effectively banning every Korean. EDIT: Plus why are discussing policies of secondary leagues? WCS Circuit: eligible countries and regions
Europe, Africa, Middle East North America (USA, Canada) Latin America China Oceania, Southeast Asia, Japan Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau Could've saved time and just wrote, EVERYONE BUT KOREANS.
But that's just blatantly racist, Blizzard wants to at least try and be covert.
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On December 22 2015 12:25 MaCRo.gg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 12:08 y0su wrote:On December 22 2015 12:02 Kofuku wrote:On December 22 2015 09:40 bypLy wrote:
It will be a lowtier and boring tournement because the approx 50 best players worldwide are missing. Image this is any other sports... Actually in other sports region locking is pretty common. The Liga ACB is probably the second best non-tournament basketball league in the world and it basically has a limitation of two Americans per team. It's not the NBA, but it's also not meant to be the NBA and can't really compete against the NBA. And still, it has its own important niche and a passionate fan base. I'm looking forward to this event, and to other WCS Circuit events, and to GSL, and to S2SL. There's enough room in my heart to love all SC2 events <3 Yeah, I don't know why everyone is so surprised that region locking isn't a new or uncommon practice. I'm also looking forward to this. I enjoy the Korean tournaments more, but I'll enjoy this more than 1/2 and 1/2 events where the ro16 (minus 1 or 2) are predictable. Don't get why people keep mentioning team sports having region locking. Last time I checked sc2 is played as an individual not a team sport. Plus it isn't competition with restricted "limited" amount of players from one region, but accepting every region but one effectively banning every Korean. EDIT: Plus why are discussing policies of secondary leagues? WCS Circuit: eligible countries and regions
Europe, Africa, Middle East North America (USA, Canada) Latin America China Oceania, Southeast Asia, Japan Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau Could've saved time and just wrote, EVERYONE BUT KOREANS.
Like I said in an earlier thread, I'd have a lot more respect for the people who support this if they'd use the name they're all thinking "WCS Fuck Korea"
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On December 22 2015 11:06 kju wrote:
is there a dota tournament atleast? i wanted to go but not to see the paralympics
csgo is there, i dont know about anything else
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Oh, I thought it was EU only in EU tournaments and so. That would make sense with building the local scene and yada yada as I went on about in the other thread. But it is really all the world except KR! :o Highly dodgy. "WCS eligible countries"... Right... >_> How does Blizzard even motivate something like this?? Like, is it legal?
I think I went from "let's see how this pans out", to "ummmm... this is kindof discrimating". 
Also me personally prefers to watch the best players (read: Koreans), but I'd be fine to tune in to EU or NA tournaments. I probably can't tell the difference anyway, as even the B-level foreigners are so far above my level.
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Not surprising. Rarely get to watch DH's anyway.
Just hope they do a global one for Winter or something. Same with IEM.
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On December 22 2015 12:45 Kofuku wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 12:25 MaCRo.gg wrote:On December 22 2015 12:08 y0su wrote:On December 22 2015 12:02 Kofuku wrote:On December 22 2015 09:40 bypLy wrote:
It will be a lowtier and boring tournement because the approx 50 best players worldwide are missing. Image this is any other sports... Actually in other sports region locking is pretty common. The Liga ACB is probably the second best non-tournament basketball league in the world and it basically has a limitation of two Americans per team. It's not the NBA, but it's also not meant to be the NBA and can't really compete against the NBA. And still, it has its own important niche and a passionate fan base. I'm looking forward to this event, and to other WCS Circuit events, and to GSL, and to S2SL. There's enough room in my heart to love all SC2 events <3 Yeah, I don't know why everyone is so surprised that region locking isn't a new or uncommon practice. I'm also looking forward to this. I enjoy the Korean tournaments more, but I'll enjoy this more than 1/2 and 1/2 events where the ro16 (minus 1 or 2) are predictable. Don't get why people keep mentioning team sports having region locking. Last time I checked sc2 is played as an individual not a team sport. Plus it isn't competition with restricted "limited" amount of players from one region, but accepting every region but one effectively banning every Korean. EDIT: Plus why are discussing policies of secondary leagues? WCS Circuit: eligible countries and regions
Europe, Africa, Middle East North America (USA, Canada) Latin America China Oceania, Southeast Asia, Japan Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau Could've saved time and just wrote, EVERYONE BUT KOREANS. I think the analogy is a lot closer than you think, since there are also team-sponsored Korean players who really will be eligible for the WCS Circuit. I understand the team/individual competition difference, but really the basic point is that region locking will diminish the quality of competition. Nobody argues that this isn't the case. I'm just trying to point out that people, for various interesting reasons, still have a lot of fun watching sports competitions and leagues that, because of player nationality restrictions, are clearly not the absolute highest levels of competition available I'm one of those people for other sports, so I'm at least willing to give WCS Circuit events a try. EDIT: And the bigger point, for people who are worried about the state of the game, is that many of these region-locked sports leagues are also successful in their own rights. Another example is KBO itself, with its American player limitation
Those analogies have some merit, but there are some key differences. Those leagues are supposed to be national leagues that are almost branches/feeders for the top league. That is where many people differ in their idea of what WCS/Blizzcon is meant to be. For those that feel like it is meant as a Blizzard project and just another tournament are justified in the analogy. For those that feel like WCS is supposed to be the league to determine the best of the best might feel cheated of their ultimate competition. While most here seem to just promote those people to just watch GSL/SSL, it isn't the same as a true Global champion that they were hoping for out of a WCS.
Chess, golf, and tennis seemed to feel like the best competitions to emulate imo. Chasing the shadows of soccer, basketball, football, ect is the role of team games like LoL and CSGO.
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On December 22 2015 08:57 desRow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 07:19 Lorch wrote:On December 22 2015 07:10 Clonester wrote:
Good thing that I dont got my tickets yet or else I had to sell them.
So much this. Was actually planning to go with my gf, but given that it's gonna be foreigners only we won't go. I was really looking forward to DH coming to Germany as I very much so prefer their events over ESL's (at least when it comes to attending in person), but all my favourite players are Kespa Koreans and I don't really see any point in going now. Hold on let me go get the Violin because Kespa players went to Dreamhack so often 10/10 buddy Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 07:27 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On December 22 2015 07:22 RCCar wrote:
Hopefully there are like 80k viewers watching this or something so foreign scene can thrive.... This is gonna be WCS Circuit's first test. One day we'll move from "more people watcihng - better the scene" leitmotif. Won't happen tonight though. You would think that with the popular well proclaimed "mature audience" that SC2 has, we wouldn't be running into high school mentality of "my esports has to be bigger than yours"
Dear desRow, I would like to tell you that unlike your thoughts, things aren't always about bragging rights.
More audience generally leads to more sponsors, which will lead to bigger, more leagues, etc, a generally bigger pie.
Hopefully you know about AirForce ACE. Would ACE have been created, if StarCraft was just another random game out there with only PC Bang leagues? Of course not! The mass public(in Korea) viewed it, Boxer was almost like a movie star, and the government officials had to acknowledge that StarCraft was a profitable content to the point that it would be better to make a progaming team and preserve players rather then lose them to military service.
If nobody watches it, then there will be no sponsors. Sonic had to drop his SCBW league plans because there were no companies willing to sponsor a game that only few people watched. Of course, SC2 still has Blizzard holding the scene up, but this can't, and shouldn't, go on forever.
So in conclusion, yes desRow, I definitely would like a big eSports scene. It is one of the biggest things that determine a status of an eSport. This is not about a game having class and depth. Its about a game being thrown out there to the public. No matter how good a game is, It is no use if nobody plays it. Drop the "viewer counts don't matter, this game has class." attitude please. It's strictly money, which will in return profit the progamers. I understand some people think SC2 is like tennis, but it still better earn way more money than what players are earning right now for it to continue as a viable eSport.
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Russian Federation262 Posts
I have a question, could Russian players also compete?
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On December 22 2015 09:42 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 09:38 ChillingFrog89 wrote:On December 22 2015 08:46 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Looks really good, I'm really looking forward to this.
Don't see why everyone is being so negative, there are plenty of Korean leagues if that's what you'd like to see. Isn't tournament suppose to be a test of competitiveness and skill? what they are doing is avoiding real competition and the most skilled players from korea, Should WCS circuit be called tournament anymore? or renamed as WCS charity ceremony for the less skilled. it is disgraceful for both foreigner and korean to face policy like this Competition isn't important to a lot of these people. They just want koreans gone.
God I wanna shove my foot right into their asses so hard...
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On December 22 2015 11:46 MaCRo.gg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 08:25 stuchiu wrote:On December 22 2015 08:15 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 22 2015 08:06 stuchiu wrote:On December 22 2015 08:01 Seeker wrote:
Sooooo... Do we get Koreans or not? nope, says WCS circuit right there. Unless you mean polt/hydra JD?? Dont have a clue where Jaedong is going. We should know by the Code A qualifiers right? Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 09:42 Deathstar wrote:On December 22 2015 09:38 ChillingFrog89 wrote:On December 22 2015 08:46 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Looks really good, I'm really looking forward to this.
Don't see why everyone is being so negative, there are plenty of Korean leagues if that's what you'd like to see. Isn't tournament suppose to be a test of competitiveness and skill? what they are doing is avoiding real competition and the most skilled players from korea, Should WCS circuit be called tournament anymore? or renamed as WCS charity ceremony for the less skilled. it is disgraceful for both foreigner and korean to face policy like this Competition isn't important to a lot of these people. They just want koreans gone. https://twitter.com/desRowfighting/status/678718933755539456 It is sickening to see these types of tweets from foreigner players, just trash attitude. While having a positive attitude about the new WCS system is reasonable response, coming out and proudly displaying anti-Korean agenda is pure garbage.
I think having more diversity at homestory cup (SEA/China/more NA Paid travel slots) will be awesome and not having 1 sided finals due to Koreans will be another welcomed change if Take is willing to take blizzard's money.
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Mute City2363 Posts
On December 22 2015 14:33 desRow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 11:46 MaCRo.gg wrote:On December 22 2015 08:25 stuchiu wrote:On December 22 2015 08:15 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 22 2015 08:06 stuchiu wrote:On December 22 2015 08:01 Seeker wrote:
Sooooo... Do we get Koreans or not? nope, says WCS circuit right there. Unless you mean polt/hydra JD?? Dont have a clue where Jaedong is going. We should know by the Code A qualifiers right? On December 22 2015 09:42 Deathstar wrote:On December 22 2015 09:38 ChillingFrog89 wrote:On December 22 2015 08:46 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Looks really good, I'm really looking forward to this.
Don't see why everyone is being so negative, there are plenty of Korean leagues if that's what you'd like to see. Isn't tournament suppose to be a test of competitiveness and skill? what they are doing is avoiding real competition and the most skilled players from korea, Should WCS circuit be called tournament anymore? or renamed as WCS charity ceremony for the less skilled. it is disgraceful for both foreigner and korean to face policy like this Competition isn't important to a lot of these people. They just want koreans gone. https://twitter.com/desRowfighting/status/678718933755539456 It is sickening to see these types of tweets from foreigner players, just trash attitude. While having a positive attitude about the new WCS system is reasonable response, coming out and proudly displaying anti-Korean agenda is pure garbage. I think having more diversity at homestory cup (SEA/China/more NA Paid travel slots) will be awesome and not having 1 sided finals due to Koreans will be another welcomed change if Take is willing to take blizzard's money.
> Asks for diversity
> Asks for Take to kick out Koreans
??
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Good, now I can do something else with my weekends since DH's are now irrelevant to the StarCraft world. They will just help produce the bottom 8 at the next Blizzon.
Pick 8 random foreigners for the bottom 8, we really don't need a year long league to select who will have the chance to get roflstomped.
Yes, I'm mad.
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On December 22 2015 09:38 ChillingFrog89 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 08:46 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Looks really good, I'm really looking forward to this.
Don't see why everyone is being so negative, there are plenty of Korean leagues if that's what you'd like to see. Isn't tournament suppose to be a test of competitiveness and skill? what they are doing is avoiding real competition and the most skilled players from korea, Should WCS circuit be called tournament anymore? or renamed as WCS charity ceremony for the less skilled. it is disgraceful for both foreigner and korean to face policy like this
Helping local scenes grow is important. It's the thing that gets brought up a lot, but if there is no "feeder" tournaments for the big leagues, then you don't promote growth.
I absolutely think that GSL and the leagues with the top players should be the most prestigious, but if I want to grow the say Canadian scene, and want to have a 100 dollar Canadian only, I'd like to be able to host that, without having a B-team Korean win it. It's nothing to do with Korea, it's just because they are on top, of other countries were on top, I'd have the same issue.
Especially the fact that these leagues are advertised as European and American leagues, and so few Koreans watch them in the first place. For the long term health of the scene, it needs to be done imo. I like having an esports idol that I can culturally relate to, and having a varying pool of nationalities is good.
I know many don't like my perspective, but it's necessary. Other sports don't really have this issue, since they are geographically locked, and Starcraft feels to have a massive surplus of pros to support. In tennis, someone eliminated in the Ro64 of a Gran Slam has no need to go play little tiny tournaments, but in Starcraft, if you're not in the Top 50 you get nothing, so it's in your best interests to play small online leagues.
Anyway, looking forward to how this turns out.
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On December 22 2015 08:26 feebas wrote:
Earnestly hoping for good games. Still, kind of difficult to avoid going over to the doom and gloom crowd on this one.
"doom and gloom' probably only in TL, cause we're diehard fan
Who knows, maybe you'll be there and the crowd would be amazing
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Mute City2363 Posts
On December 22 2015 15:22 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 09:38 ChillingFrog89 wrote:On December 22 2015 08:46 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Looks really good, I'm really looking forward to this.
Don't see why everyone is being so negative, there are plenty of Korean leagues if that's what you'd like to see. Isn't tournament suppose to be a test of competitiveness and skill? what they are doing is avoiding real competition and the most skilled players from korea, Should WCS circuit be called tournament anymore? or renamed as WCS charity ceremony for the less skilled. it is disgraceful for both foreigner and korean to face policy like this Helping local scenes grow is important. It's the thing that gets brought up a lot, but if there is no "feeder" tournaments for the big leagues, then you don't promote growth. I absolutely think that GSL and the leagues with the top players should be the most prestigious, but if I want to grow the say Canadian scene, and want to have a 100 dollar Canadian only, I'd like to be able to host that, without having a B-team Korean win it. It's nothing to do with Korea, it's just because they are on top, of other countries were on top, I'd have the same issue. Especially the fact that these leagues are advertised as European and American leagues, and so few Koreans watch them in the first place. For the long term health of the scene, it needs to be done imo. I like having an esports idol that I can culturally relate to, and having a varying pool of nationalities is good. I know many don't like my perspective, but it's necessary. Other sports don't really have this issue, since they are geographically locked, and Starcraft feels to have a massive surplus of pros to support. In tennis, someone eliminated in the Ro64 of a Gran Slam has no need to go play little tiny tournaments, but in Starcraft, if you're not in the Top 50 you get nothing, so it's in your best interests to play small online leagues. Anyway, looking forward to how this turns out.
The issue is that this is doing it at the cost of the Korean scene. If the Korean scene is relegated to GSL / SSL KeSPA Cup only, there's going to be a pretty damn impossible barrier to break for anyone trying to make it in Korea. Hopefully with Olimoleague / Leifeng Cup there'll be enough there to stop an immediate wave of retirements, but it's still not the healthiest setup.
The only convincing argument for region locking WCS is that it helps to support up and coming players national scenes; why then is this done at the expense of the deepest, best, and most entertaining scene in the world? Why not set up additional tiered tournaments in Korea - restoring Code A to tournament format would be a great start. Why not keep your big three WCS Season events as foreigner only, and keep the rest as a free for all?
Why simultaneously decry the fact that failing in Challenger last year in WCS (ShoWTimE was the example Apollo brought up) deprived players of opportunities for months at a time, while cutting down Korean leagues by almost 50% (given truncated SSL)? It's an especially outrageous claim given international premier tournaments were open to all foreigners last year; a fact that's clearly not reciprocal for Koreans in 2016.
I appreciate the fact that they're trying to help out the foreigner scene; what I don't is the blatant double standards employed.
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On December 22 2015 15:22 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 09:38 ChillingFrog89 wrote:On December 22 2015 08:46 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Looks really good, I'm really looking forward to this.
Don't see why everyone is being so negative, there are plenty of Korean leagues if that's what you'd like to see. Isn't tournament suppose to be a test of competitiveness and skill? what they are doing is avoiding real competition and the most skilled players from korea, Should WCS circuit be called tournament anymore? or renamed as WCS charity ceremony for the less skilled. it is disgraceful for both foreigner and korean to face policy like this Helping local scenes grow is important. It's the thing that gets brought up a lot, but if there is no "feeder" tournaments for the big leagues, then you don't promote growth. I absolutely think that GSL and the leagues with the top players should be the most prestigious, but if I want to grow the say Canadian scene, and want to have a 100 dollar Canadian only, I'd like to be able to host that, without having a B-team Korean win it. It's nothing to do with Korea, it's just because they are on top, of other countries were on top, I'd have the same issue. Especially the fact that these leagues are advertised as European and American leagues, and so few Koreans watch them in the first place. For the long term health of the scene, it needs to be done imo. I like having an esports idol that I can culturally relate to, and having a varying pool of nationalities is good. I know many don't like my perspective, but it's necessary. Other sports don't really have this issue, since they are geographically locked, and Starcraft feels to have a massive surplus of pros to support. In tennis, someone eliminated in the Ro64 of a Gran Slam has no need to go play little tiny tournaments, but in Starcraft, if you're not in the Top 50 you get nothing, so it's in your best interests to play small online leagues. Anyway, looking forward to how this turns out.
I agree with what you are saying, and that could have been one of my posts only 24 hours ago. If you want to grow the canadian scene, I am perfectly fine with having tournaments exclusive for canadians, and it may even work, who knows. So I'd be fine if they restricted to EU server area in a DH in Europe for example. Great. Go for it.
But then I realised that they do let in people from all the world: NA, china, Taiwan, everywhere. Only not Korea. So the "local scene" of DH in Europe includes NA, China and Taiwan, but not Korea? Are Europeans expected to have a stronger connection to Chinese players than Korean players? It doesn't make any sense... You can't declare the entire world minus Korea as "the local scene" for this purpose.
So yeah, I agree with what you are saying. I said the exact same thing myself several times not long ago. But it doesn't apply to this case. What they are doing here is pushing the definition of "the local scene" far beyond what makes sense, to where it in practice means excluding a single country.
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On December 22 2015 15:40 thecrazymunchkin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 15:22 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 22 2015 09:38 ChillingFrog89 wrote:On December 22 2015 08:46 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Looks really good, I'm really looking forward to this.
Don't see why everyone is being so negative, there are plenty of Korean leagues if that's what you'd like to see. Isn't tournament suppose to be a test of competitiveness and skill? what they are doing is avoiding real competition and the most skilled players from korea, Should WCS circuit be called tournament anymore? or renamed as WCS charity ceremony for the less skilled. it is disgraceful for both foreigner and korean to face policy like this Helping local scenes grow is important. It's the thing that gets brought up a lot, but if there is no "feeder" tournaments for the big leagues, then you don't promote growth. I absolutely think that GSL and the leagues with the top players should be the most prestigious, but if I want to grow the say Canadian scene, and want to have a 100 dollar Canadian only, I'd like to be able to host that, without having a B-team Korean win it. It's nothing to do with Korea, it's just because they are on top, of other countries were on top, I'd have the same issue. Especially the fact that these leagues are advertised as European and American leagues, and so few Koreans watch them in the first place. For the long term health of the scene, it needs to be done imo. I like having an esports idol that I can culturally relate to, and having a varying pool of nationalities is good. I know many don't like my perspective, but it's necessary. Other sports don't really have this issue, since they are geographically locked, and Starcraft feels to have a massive surplus of pros to support. In tennis, someone eliminated in the Ro64 of a Gran Slam has no need to go play little tiny tournaments, but in Starcraft, if you're not in the Top 50 you get nothing, so it's in your best interests to play small online leagues. Anyway, looking forward to how this turns out. The issue is that this is doing it at the cost of the Korean scene. If the Korean scene is relegated to GSL / SSL KeSPA Cup only, there's going to be a pretty damn impossible barrier to break for anyone trying to make it in Korea. Hopefully with Olimoleague / Leifeng Cup there'll be enough there to stop an immediate wave of retirements, but it's still not the healthiest setup. The only convincing argument for region locking WCS is that it helps to support up and coming players national scenes; why then is this done at the expense of the deepest, best, and most entertaining scene in the world? Why not set up additional tiered tournaments in Korea - restoring Code A to tournament format would be a great start. Why not keep your big three WCS Season events as foreigner only, and keep the rest as a free for all? Why simultaneously decry the fact that failing in Challenger last year in WCS (ShoWTimE was the example Apollo brought up) deprived players of opportunities for months at a time, while cutting down Korean leagues by almost 50% (given truncated SSL)? It's an especially outrageous claim given international premier tournaments were open to all foreigners last year; a fact that's clearly not reciprocal for Koreans in 2016. I appreciate the fact that they're trying to help out the foreigner scene; what I don't is the blatant double standards employed.
Also, don't forget the fact that WCS is far more heavily funded than the GSL and SSL; 25th-32nd places get $4500, while those who fail in Challenger get $2000; for an element of comparison, 3-4th in GSL and SSL gets you $3610 and $4061, respectively. The total prize pool for WCS per season in 2015 was $281 000, and for the GSL and SSL it was $84 471 and $67 685 respectively.
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EPT
