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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51544 Posts
On December 18 2015 11:38 The_Red_Viper wrote: Money and direct seeding for global playoffs. yeah I mean great for players/fans but broadcasters are losing out on this deal, I mean its ok for SPOTV since they have LoL content now but what about afreeca? | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
This Circuit doesn't sound as hype, but dunno, maybe the Spring/Summer/Winter Finals will be. Also Koreans not battling with foreigners in weekend events doesn't sound fun. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
On December 18 2015 11:40 SlammerIV wrote: Can people please stop trying to speak for the entire fanbase of starcraft! I am a huge Starcraft fan, I have watched almost every tournament since early 2013 and I am super excited and hyped for the new system blizzard is implementing. I respect the fact that many here on TL disagree but can we at least admit that there is at least a large percentage of StarCraft fans who support region locking. I think we need to understand why Koreans are so good at starcraft, imo it is not because they work harder or are genetically superior, it is simply because they benefit from the infrastructure in Korea which allows new talent to get on a team, make some money, and actually make a living. Up until now very few non Korean players have had the money, practice, or infrastructure which enables a player to dedicate their lives to becoming the absolute best. The new system will provide a reason for players to actually put in the huge level of dedication required to reach the level of Korean players. I do not understand how people choose to ignore the simple economics of the situation. Why would someone put in the effort required when they are not going to receive any benefit. Now Blizzard is giving players a real shot at making a living off gaming. No, there is not a "large percentage of fans who support region locking". But there are some for sure, e.g. all the non- Korean players. We will have a "Division A" and "Division B". Different levels of competition, but the same money. The Division A players will play among themselves and will still be great players. The division B players will play among themselves and ... (through some miracle?) will soon reach the level of the Division A players? I understand the enthusiasm of all the western players - if someone told me, my salary will be doubled, tripled, quadrupled, I would be also enthusiastic and would promise, I will work twice harder. Will I? | ||
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Thax
Belgium1060 Posts
On December 18 2015 09:34 CrayonPopChoa wrote: If foreigners so badly want to have a chance to win then why not just have a 2 league system, like a major and minor league, the koreans and the foreigners then get there own top 16 championship brackets at WCS Finals. This way people can watch the top tier sc2 players and also their foreign heroes. That's exactly what this is going to be. Yet people are still complaining. Just with an 8 championship bracket instead of 16. I'm amazed* at how few people here grasp the idea that if you want SC2 to develop longterm you need to develop the global scene. It's never going to be a big e-sport if it stays a niche scene mostly limited to a single country ( which has trouble even sustaining that scene). And it can't develop if it doesn't get room to breath because the Koreans that spill over from their own scene come in and hover up all the meaningful amounts of money leaving nothing to motivate and sustain all but a lucky few global players. * Well, given the horrific fails in reading comprehension from the beginning of this thread I'm not really that amazed. | ||
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ThePacifist
Korea (South)46 Posts
On December 18 2015 11:22 BLinD-RawR wrote: what has the reaction been from korean players and fans? Well, most of them don't like that there will be only 2 seasons for S2SL and GSL each, and residency-lock on WCS Events. but increased prize pool. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
On December 18 2015 11:54 Thax wrote: That's exactly what this is going to be. Yet people are still complaining. Just with an 8 championship bracket instead of 16. I'm amazed* at how few people here grasp the idea that if you want SC2 to develop longterm you need to develop the global scene. It's never going to be a big e-sport if it stays a niche scene mostly limited to a single country ( which has trouble even sustaining that scene). And it can't develop if it doesn't get room to breath because the Koreans that spill over from their own scene come in and hover up all the meaningful amounts of money leaving nothing to motivate and sustain all but a lucky few global players. * Well, given the horrific fails in reading comprehension from the beginning of this thread I'm not really that amazed. The Global Scene will not improve, they'll still lose to Koreans on the big stage The Korean scene will wither because a lot of players will be forced to retire or won't get onto teams. There won't be any money because a lot of people simply won't watch the region locked tournaments Blizzard basically cured a mild tummyache by shooting themselves in the head | ||
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SlammerIV
United States526 Posts
On December 18 2015 11:50 Diabolique wrote: No, there is not a "large percentage of fans who support region locking". But there are some for sure, e.g. all the non- Korean players. We will have a "Division A" and "Division B". Different levels of competition, but the same money. The Division A players will play among themselves and will still be great players. The division B players will play among themselves and ... (through some miracle?) will soon reach the level of the Division A players? I understand the enthusiasm of all the western players - if someone told me, my salary will be doubled, tripled, quadrupled, I would be also enthusiastic and would promise, I will work twice harder. Will I? You do not know the number of fans who support region locking any more than I do, browsing reddit and TL I saw many people who posted positive comments. TL probably has the most hardcore audience so it is understandable that the majority of posts here are anti region locking, however the more casual viewer, which by the way is who Blizzard is trying to reach, supports region locking. Just because you have a certain opinion does not mean that a huge majority agrees with you. | ||
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BreAKerTV
Taiwan1658 Posts
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stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On December 18 2015 12:11 SlammerIV wrote: You do not know the number of fans who support region locking any more than I do, browsing reddit and TL I saw many people who posted positive comments. TL probably has the most hardcore audience so it is understandable that the majority of posts here are anti region locking, however the more casual viewer, which by the way is who Blizzard is trying to reach, supports region locking. Just because you have a certain opinion does not mean that a huge majority agrees with you. Same logic applies to you as well. No one knows. The only person who had hard numbers was TB who had run Shoutcraft, but that was just 2 cases. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17882 Posts
On December 18 2015 09:44 DwD wrote: No one is dedicated right now and it shows. Because no foreigner is good at the game. What do you mean Kespa is not going to welcome you? Blizzard just said in this statement that any player can play in Korea if they want. Talk to a Korean team, ask if you can rent a bed if you can't then why not rent a 1 bedroom apartment in Seoul and go HAM on the KR Ladder. Judging by your team's winning and yourself you can afford it. That's where most KR pros get their practice anyway. a foriegn player will have to take it to Guilliame Patry levels and learn the language and fully assimilate. elite basketball players do this all the time by moving to the USA and learning to become fluent in english while at the same time learning their sport and assimilating into american culture and assimilating into the "baller" subculture. the "baller" subculture's language is english. you can't be part of that subculture if you only speak Farsi, French or Russian. If you aspire to become the best basketball player in the world while at the same time refusing to learn how to speak english you are on a suicide mission. Same applies with Starcraft and speaking Korean. There are probably only a handful of foriegn players with the talent and work ethic to pull off both becoming a top SC2 pro while at the same time learning to speak Korean and assimilating into the culture. The monetary reward is negligible. Therefore, I can hardly "blame" any of these foriegn players for refusing to do what Guilliame Patry did 15 years ago. The NBA provides monetary rewards 1000 times better than any SC2 pro will ever receive. | ||
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CrayonPopChoa
Canada761 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On December 18 2015 12:11 SlammerIV wrote: You do not know the number of fans who support region locking any more than I do, browsing reddit and TL I saw many people who posted positive comments. TL probably has the most hardcore audience so it is understandable that the majority of posts here are anti region locking, however the more casual viewer, which by the way is who Blizzard is trying to reach, supports region locking. Just because you have a certain opinion does not mean that a huge majority agrees with you. Strange thing to say since it kinda ruins your argument too. You're both just assuming you're in the majority. I just don't see why people think the 'casual audience' will care more with region locking in place. I don't see it making any difference to people who don't watch SC2 currently. Time will tell though. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
On December 18 2015 12:11 SlammerIV wrote: You do not know the number of fans who support region locking any more than I do, browsing reddit and TL I saw many people who posted positive comments. TL probably has the most hardcore audience so it is understandable that the majority of posts here are anti region locking, however the more casual viewer, which by the way is who Blizzard is trying to reach, supports region locking. Just because you have a certain opinion does not mean that a huge majority agrees with you. We are discussing a very tight nuance. I do not think, people even here on TL are against some welfare tournaments for weak foreign players, who do not manage to get to the larger ones. That is OK. We are not forced to watch them. We did even cheer for the WCS 2015 even with the player pool, it had. More money - that is great! More tournaments - even more great! In fact, I somehow do not mind that much having 8 foreigners to BlizzCon. It can be funny to see 8 beat ups like Lilbow and compete, who lasts more minutes. But there are the bad things: No more IEM in the quality, it had in the last years? Probably, we will still see, what they say. If IEM is not region locked, I will not be so disappointed. Only 2 seasons of GSL / SSL. Very sad. Only 8 Koreans going to BlizzCon? Fuck it! Together with only 2 seasons of GSL and SSL and region locking of the most foreign tournaments, this means, that not the best Koreans will come to BlizzCon, but it will be a lottery. You have 4 attempts per year to win or end up second in one of the 2 leagues in Korea. You make 4 times 3rd place? Sorry. You probably won't qualify for BlizzCon. It will be random, based on the actual form in the moment of the tournament. Not the long term performace, it is now. This is sad. For all the Korean players. I would be fine with all the changes if two things happened: 1. IEM stays not region locked. But when you look at the current IEM, it seems, they will even cancel SC2 completely. 2. If the system took 16 best Koreans and 8 best foreigners to BlizzCon and mixes them somehow into groups, brackets, ... that would be awesome. Or 12 Koreans and 4 foreigners. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12539 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On December 18 2015 12:06 showstealer1829 wrote: The Global Scene will not improve, they'll still lose to Koreans on the big stage The Korean scene will wither because a lot of players will be forced to retire or won't get onto teams. There won't be any money because a lot of people simply won't watch the region locked tournaments Blizzard basically cured a mild tummyache by shooting themselves in the head Yes I'm sure your doom and gloom prediction will pan out, after all everyone knows how good the TL userbase is at predicting the scene being ruined LOL. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On December 18 2015 06:23 Keeemy wrote: Only 2 seasons of GSL and SSL? And 8 spots for them? RIP Korean pros. E: That cross finals thing helps I guess. Glad I didn't have to read too many posts before I saw exaggerations and drama queenage. | ||
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EatingBomber
1017 Posts
On December 18 2015 08:53 pure.Wasted wrote: How was HotS a terrible game? edit: found your response Even if you're right about certain MUs becoming worse (ZvZ, ZvP), I don't understand why that should disproportionately affect Koreans differently from foreigners. Besides, there are no doubts that the most talented Zergs in Korea were able to win during HotS - Soulkey, soO, ByuL, Life are all indisputably respected for their skills. So regardless of the MUs being better or worse in some esoteric sense, they must have been rewarding skilled players or Soulkey/soO/ByuL/Life wouldn't have continued winning. Again, foreigners are disproportionately affected. I think what's a lot more likely is that the skill ceiling went up with HotS and went up again with LotV. I don't believe it is a coincidence that foreign Terrans enjoyed the least amount of success in HotS and will again in LotV. Ah, a patchzerg of WoL who got rightfully crushed by Mvp in IEM Cologne complains about Brood Lord-Infestor. Truly, the jokes write themselves. | ||
munch
Mute City2363 Posts
On December 18 2015 12:30 Nebuchad wrote: Depending on how many global tourneys there are this could look very similar to 2015 in terms of actual games' content. There is virtually no way IEM won't have global tourneys, DH and RedBull I'm not so sure (it would surprise me if RedBull had any, perhaps just one?) There's pretty much no market now for the smaller LANs featuring Koreans (e.g. Gfinity), while out of all the DH / IEM / Red Bull events last year, there was a grand total of two events which had a prize pool of 50k necessary to qualify as a Global Event (IEM WC and DHW, while the rest were $25k). Sure, ESL could divert funds used in WCS 2015 to cover global events in 2016, but it's unlikely that we'll match the total weekenders seen in 2015, let alone 2013/14. And whatever happens, it sure won't make up for two fewer starleagues. | ||
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SlammerIV
United States526 Posts
On December 18 2015 12:27 Diabolique wrote: We are discussing a very tight nuance. I do not think, people even here on TL are against some welfare tournaments for weak foreign players, who do not manage to get to the larger ones. That is OK. We are not forced to watch them. We did even cheer for the WCS 2015 even with the player pool, it had. More money - that is great! More tournaments - even more great! In fact, I somehow do not mind that much having 8 foreigners to BlizzCon. It can be funny to see 8 beat ups like Lilbow and compete, who lasts more minutes. But there are the bad things: No more IEM in the quality, it had in the last years? Probably, we will still see, what they say. If IEM is not region locked, I will not be so disappointed. Only 2 seasons of GSL / SSL. Very sad. Only 8 Koreans going to BlizzCon? Fuck it! Together with only 2 seasons of GSL and SSL and region locking of the most foreign tournaments, this means, that not the best Koreans will come to BlizzCon, but it will be a lottery. You have 4 attempts per year to win or end up second in one of the 2 leagues in Korea. You make 4 times 3rd place? Sorry. You probably won't qualify for BlizzCon. It will be random, based on the actual form in the moment of the tournament. Not the long term performace, it is now. This is sad. For all the Korean players. I would be fine with all the changes if two things happened: 1. IEM stays not region locked. But when you look at the current IEM, it seems, they will even cancel SC2 completely. 2. If the system took 16 best Koreans and 8 best foreigners to BlizzCon and mixes them somehow into groups, brackets, ... that would be awesome. Or 12 Koreans and 4 foreigners. Alright fair enough. I guess I am just more optimistic. At this point we don't really know how many Global events along the lines of IEM with open qualifiers will exist. I think there will still be a solid amount of IEM style tournaments to go around. As for GSL SSL I think the 6 tournaments last year was a bit too much, it really felt rushed and lessened the hype a bit with a GSL or SSL final every other week. I also think the more open Korean schedule will allow for more other tournaments along the lines of kespa cup and hot6six cup. Also these events will hopefully have blizzard money for larger prize pools as well as WCS points available. I agree that the Champion slots for GSL and SSL seem a bit bad, as you pointed out seems to reward a single performance over consistency. However, lets be real, pretty much every GSL and SSL champ was in the top 8 of Blizzcon last year, so this year will not be that different in that respect. And overall in my opinion the benefits of the system in respects to growing the foreign scene, more money, and greater overall support far outweighs concerns over a less than optimal Blizzcon system. | ||
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