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On December 13 2015 06:47 UrsusRex wrote:Show nested quote +Sorry but to say you don't need casters, a camera crew and licensing agreements to hold a tennis tournament is very wrong. Professonsl tennis and cricket tourneys at your local gym or park? Lol. In fact nothing could be further from the truth. I don't know anything about competitive chess so I will refrain from commenting which Is what you should have done before commenting about tennis and cricket. I was referring to informal tournaments put on by ordinary people I never referenced professional sports. There is a tennis tournament going on in my gym right now and there is no camera crew or licensing going on. That is why these scenes succeed with or without their professional counterparts and have competitive players worldwide and SC2 does not. You can't have an informal SC2 tournament with the same ease as any non Esport which is why they are always competitive all around the world with or without being televised. That is why there is so much more pressure on Blizzard and the players which is the point you were making and the one I addressed. There is no competitive scene without them the way there is in Tennis, Cricket, Chess, Soccer or Football all of them emerged as major sports before they were televised and they will continue with or without their professional scene. No one cares if the NFL fails in fact it would be great since we would no longer have a tax exempt parasite leeching off the American people, Football would benefit from the NFL's demise. SC2 can not survive without support from Blizzard the way Football, Tennis, and Soccer could survive without their professional organizations and spectators. Perhaps I should have clarified that more but my point is correct and I stand by it.
Sure sc2 can survive without blizz support. Check the whole competitive sc2 scene before wcs. While it is true that it was before the now big Esport games had taken off yet and given that sc2 was still a brand new game, it was still the most successful time of sc2 Esports. It can even be argued that it was blizz micromanaging (meddling in some other people's eyes) that messed up sc2 esports.
EDIT: I would also argue that those informal tennis tourneys you are talking about (local ustatennis leagues most likely that you are seeing if you are from the US) is comparable to sc2 ladder. It's just a competitive outlet that your average joe can use to compete against other average joes. It has nothing to do with professional tennis.
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Sure sc2 can survive without blizz support. Check the whole competitive sc2 scene before wcs. While it is true that it was before the now big Esport games had taken off yet and given that sc2 was still a brand new game, it was still the most successful time of sc2 Esports. It can even be argued that it was blizz micromanaging (meddling in some other people's eyes) that messed up sc2 esports.
Maybe your right Fliparoni but I was under the impression that Blizzard had to approve any SC2 tournament that is for profit which is why I said our esports scene dies if they lose interest in it but maybe I'm wrong I don't really know all the licensing detail and you seem to be more informed than I. Would SC2 survive if Blizzard decided to move on and just left it all to the scene and just demanded royalties for every paid tournament. I can't say but maybe that isn't why there is so much pressure on Blizzard and the players. If not though than why is SC2 such a toxic judgmental scene?
In regards to the Tennis though its hosted by my gym which is a Tennis gym and has like 12 full size Tennis courts and these people are competing for thousands of dollars and have a buy in. I don't think it involves any official ranking or sponsorship it might though I really don't know. I will say that it is much easier to organize and make relevant because its done in person and not online. I would say its more similar to a LAN tournament than Ladder.
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OK, if it really happens, I hope, TakeTV will manage to win 100.000 USD from sponsors next summer for the HomeStory Cup and will organize the best tournament of the year with all the best Koreans, Has, all best Europeans and Americans ... Because the viewership would be guaranteed if it is the only tournament of the year (except BlizzCon), where both Koreans and foreigners play ...
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On December 13 2015 07:19 UrsusRex wrote:Show nested quote +Sure sc2 can survive without blizz support. Check the whole competitive sc2 scene before wcs. While it is true that it was before the now big Esport games had taken off yet and given that sc2 was still a brand new game, it was still the most successful time of sc2 Esports. It can even be argued that it was blizz micromanaging (meddling in some other people's eyes) that messed up sc2 esports.
Maybe your right Fliparoni but I was under the impression that Blizzard had to approve any SC2 tournament that is for profit which is why I said our esports scene dies if they lose interest in it but maybe I'm wrong I don't really know all the licensing detail and you seem to be more informed than I. Would SC2 survive if Blizzard decided to move on and just left it all to the scene and just demanded royalties for every paid tournament. I can't say but maybe that isn't why there is so much pressure on Blizzard and the players. If not though than why is SC2 such a toxic judgmental scene? In regards to the Tennis though its hosted by my gym which is a Tennis gym and has like 12 full size Tennis courts and these people are competing for thousands of dollars and have a buy in. I don't think it involves any official ranking or sponsorship it might though I really don't know. I will say that it is much easier to organize and make relevant because its done in person and not online. I would say its more similar to a LAN tournament than Ladder.
I honestly don't know if sc2 would survive nowadays without blizzard. It's too dependent now on wcs. There ar barely any weekend tournaments anymore compared to back then. Some people blame blizzard for making it this way in which its solely dependent on blizzard and pretty much killing all non wcs tourneys. I tend to agree but not fully.
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From what information we have, this seems like complete bullshit. If Blizzard really wants to support the foreign scene, they could've done things like organizing foreign team leagues, building on things like ATC. Team Leagues helps players get exposure and encourages practice and communication. Fucking over Korean players and foreign tournaments is not the right way to go just because foreign players "can't compete" with Koreans is not the right way to go. It's as if FIFA was in NA, and held a world cup that barred European and South American teams from competing because they were too good. That's the smart way of boosting viewership right there.
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Look at League of legends fan. They are cheering the team in their own region, even though ther are worse than Korean team. When Korean vs Koreani final happned, they get so depressed. Then look at SC2 fan. they only cheer strong Korean who even can't speak English and feel happy for 15/16 Korean "Global Championship", all other e-sports fan is laughing at. Maybe they are insisting that football WC should be held with only EU and South America team.
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On December 13 2015 07:24 Diabolique wrote:
OK, if it really happens, I hope, TakeTV will manage to win 100.000 USD from sponsors next summer for the HomeStory Cup and will organize the best tournament of the year with all the best Koreans, Has, all best Europeans and Americans ... Because the viewership would be guaranteed if it is the only tournament of the year (except BlizzCon), where both Koreans and foreigners play ...
HSC has always had some koreans, but more than that, it is a bunch of (mostly) invited gamers / friends having fun playing, casting, drinking and playing board games in between (and other silly and funny stuff). 10k or 100k prize pool makes little difference on the viewership as long as the tourney sticks to this format, which is informal and fun and that is about it. HSC is as such not as such a significant tournament for the pro-scene.
Thus, if HSC is not part of a WCS series, when plenty of other tournaments are, tournaments that organize proper qualifiers, host four times as many players in the main tournament, invests in professional production and events with huge crowds in the audience etc. etc., I don't think Blizzard gives a damn tbh. HSC still contributes to market a great game in its own lovely way, but WCS isn't going to fall if HSC doesn't dish out WCS point.
In any case, you can tell Naniwa is flying below the radar when a thread like this is, based on no official information whatsoever if I understand it correctly, is getting so much attention. 
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On December 13 2015 08:50 Horiken wrote:
Look at League of legends fan. They are cheering the team in their own region, even though ther are worse than Korean team. When Korean vs Koreani final happned, they get so depressed. Then look at SC2 fan. they only cheer strong Korean who even can't speak English and feel happy for 15/16 Korean "Global Championship", all other e-sports fan is laughing at. Maybe they are insisting that football WC should be held with only EU and South America team.
Well. I do not see any reason, why should Japan play at the football WC if you are unable to qualify. For charity or what? You should play against Nauru, cheer for your team and be happy if you win. What a bullshit comment ...
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On December 12 2015 20:23 Legobiten wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 19:43 mderg wrote:On December 12 2015 18:53 Legobiten wrote:On December 12 2015 18:37 Topdoller wrote:On December 12 2015 17:26 Sissors wrote:On December 12 2015 16:14 Togekiss wrote:
People here saying this won't hurt the foreign scene are completely delusional. Sure, I will tune into foreign streams and support a good personality, but if I want to watch good starcraft I will watch SSL, GSL & PL. I have absolutely zero motivation to watch the "WCS Circuit" tournaments such as DH and IEM etc if it is only foreign players competing. This is like me watching "B" Division European Football when I could be watching Champions League instead. Yet at the same time, barely anyone here (Netherlands) watches foreign soccer clubs regularly (maybe for example the final match of the champions league, but not regularly), while many watch the 'inferior' Dutch clubs. And even their local club, despite it being absolute crap compared to what the national clubs show. So while you have zero motivation to look at this, and thats fine, many others will be more interested in it than just another version of the GSL: If they want to see the GSL, they look at the GSL. Personally I do feel if this is actually true, it would be going too far. But preventing the European/American WCS from being just another Korean affair is good imo. Football is a "Tribal" sport. 95% people support their hometown club. This support is passed on from Parent to Child. You are basically indoctrinated into supporting them I support Newcastle United(my hometown club). They have been shit for the last 10+ years yet i still watch them, and i have no choice in the matter. I dont watch any other english team apart from them. If i want to watch a high quality game i tune into Barca\Real\ Byern etc In order to appreciate the game for its skill & technical ability But Newcastle doesn't go to Champions league just because UEFA gives 8/16 spots to bad teams like in this case. Well, Maccabi Tel Aviv did play Champions league this season and I'd say they're much worse than lots of teams that didn't qualify. There's not only the best teams in the Champions league or the top nations would definitely get more spots. And how are they doing in their group?  Last place. It's only in group stages. They're not a team in the top 16 and there are not teams like that taking 8 out of 16 top spots.
Your response tells me that you don't really know much about the topic. The group stage is where the big money starts to come in and is what people think of when talking about qualifying for the Champions league.
I've picked them precisely because they've lost every game in the group stage. They've managed to qualify for the "main event" despite being much worse than teams that didn't make it like Dortmund, Schalke, Liverpool or Tottenham.
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Koreans, by extension Asians, have no problems watching NFL, NBA, MLB, Soccer, Tennis, etc. Most asian countries have almost no representation in "international" sports. Yet they can cheer their hearts out for the champions of those sports, even if they are not the same ethnicity/culture as them.
Let us be frank here, "Foreigner" refers to EU/USA (The West).
The real question is,
Why can't western countries cheer for eastern champions?
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On December 13 2015 08:50 Horiken wrote:
Look at League of legends fan. They are cheering the team in their own region, even though ther are worse than Korean team. When Korean vs Koreani final happned, they get so depressed. Then look at SC2 fan. they only cheer strong Korean who even can't speak English and feel happy for 15/16 Korean "Global Championship", all other e-sports fan is laughing at. Maybe they are insisting that football WC should be held with only EU and South America team.
So we should stop being happy with our Koreans just because other esports fans are laughing at us??? What a pathetic attitude.
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On December 13 2015 09:57 Nella4390 wrote:
Koreans, by extension Asians, have no problems watching NFL, NBA, MLB, Soccer, Tennis, etc. Most asian countries have almost most no representation in "international" sports. Yet they can cheer their hearts out for the champions of those sports, even if they are not the same ethnicity/culture as them.
Let us be frank here, "Foreigner" refers to EU/USA (The West).
The real question is,
Why can't western countries cheer for eastern champions?
I think this thread demonstrates that they can. . . .
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On December 13 2015 10:13 Wray92 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2015 09:57 Nella4390 wrote:
Koreans, by extension Asians, have no problems watching NFL, NBA, MLB, Soccer, Tennis, etc. Most asian countries have almost most no representation in "international" sports. Yet they can cheer their hearts out for the champions of those sports, even if they are not the same ethnicity/culture as them.
Let us be frank here, "Foreigner" refers to EU/USA (The West).
The real question is,
Why can't western countries cheer for eastern champions? I think this thread demonstrates that they can. . . .
The thread demonstrates that there is a minority that can. (myself included)
Obviously I was generalizing to make a point. The point being that the vast majority of westerners are still unwelcoming to the idea.
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The difference is that there are no "races" in LoL, and in the other sports, there are nothing but "races." In Starcraft, there are multiple ways to cheer for someone. You can cheer for the faction (P, Z, or T), or you can cheer for the country/region, and of course, there is the player. Though, often times it is the faction/country that one cheers for first and then the actual player. (Of course, some people cheer for others if they have a particularly interesting personality)
Also, the difference is that Starcraft started off predominantly as a Korean e-sport first and then a global -e-sport later. For games like LoL or CS:GO, they were global first and then the Asian countries began to dominate (except in CS).
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This seems like the worst idea possible. Locking koreans out of Dreamhack and IEM..what is the point of watching these tournaments anymore?
Also, how can Blizzard say that Blizzcon is the 16 best players when you don't even allow the best players to compete in half of the tournaments.
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This is just silly. Obviously, we'd all like to see more foreigners in the big tournaments (if they practice) but if their skill level isn't quite at the same place as the top Koreans then all this will achieve is to lower the standard of play that we get to watch. And less tournaments just means less money, so even more retirements / switches to Dota/LOL inc if this goes ahead.
I'm not trying to say that foreigners are boring to watch play, quite the opposite, but if the scene is to grow you need to be showing as much of the absolute highest caliber play as often as possible. Really doesn't make sense to me right now.
Edit:
On December 13 2015 08:22 dyDrawer wrote:
If Blizzard really wants to support the foreign scene, they could've done things like organizing foreign team leagues, building on things like ATC. Team Leagues helps players get exposure and encourages practice and communication.
Strongly agree with this. Some kind of foreign proleague would be absolutely fantastic in my opinion. I'm sure there's all sorts of things that could make it a struggle to start up, but the ATC was so great for getting some lesser known talent recognition and if Blizzard, or anyone, got something like it restarted I'd be the first to donate to a kickstarter or whatever.
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On December 13 2015 10:20 Nella4390 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2015 10:13 Wray92 wrote:On December 13 2015 09:57 Nella4390 wrote:
Koreans, by extension Asians, have no problems watching NFL, NBA, MLB, Soccer, Tennis, etc. Most asian countries have almost most no representation in "international" sports. Yet they can cheer their hearts out for the champions of those sports, even if they are not the same ethnicity/culture as them.
Let us be frank here, "Foreigner" refers to EU/USA (The West).
The real question is,
Why can't western countries cheer for eastern champions? I think this thread demonstrates that they can. . . . The thread demonstrates that there is a minority that can. (myself included) Obviously I was generalizing to make a point. The point being that the vast majority of westerners are still unwelcoming to the idea.
If you ask the majority of westerners about Korean SC2 champions, they'd be like "what?"
SC2 fans are such a small group in general. I wanna see where this "majority" of people is who care about and follow the SC2 scene, but would much rather watch foreigners than Koreans.
If you're talking about how people root for foreigners to beat top Koreans, that's been around since Brood War. People love rooting for the underdog.
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They had better seed the Blizzcon brackets for the Koreans to play the foreigners in the ro16, because it would be a fucking SHAME if they had a charity seed directly to the finals.
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On December 12 2015 17:22 BigFan wrote:Well, this can't be good for the scene. Probably best to hear the news from Blizzard themselves before passing judgement. Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 17:15 Zealously wrote:
Well that's a good way to potentially shoot down my interest so, what kind of bet did you lose that made you post that sig lol.
He just realised the truth.
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what about the IEMs held in Asia? or would there be no such thing anymore
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EPT
