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Wrath
3175 Posts
On December 13 2015 03:49 Diabolique wrote: What made me think that it can be really true was the newest HuK's post: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1so1673 Um... post deleted? Can you tell us what was there? | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19391 Posts
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On December 13 2015 04:31 BisuDagger wrote: How about showing relentless support for foreign players Why would I relentlessly support players I'm not actually interested in seeing play? For the sake of it? And you call out "social justice warriors"? | ||
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UrsusRex
United States85 Posts
Why would I relentlessly support players I'm not actually interested in seeing play? For the sake of it? And you call out "social justice warriors"? Why should Blizzard give more opportunities to players who don't bring in the most viewers and money? | ||
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HugoBallzak
700 Posts
On December 13 2015 04:41 UrsusRex wrote: Why should Blizzard give more opportunities to players who don't bring in the most viewers and money? Last I checked. Koreans bring the most viewers. Currently 20,000 people watching nationwars, a tournament I see pulling only 5,000 when its lucky. Blizzcon was 15 Koreans and 1 foreigner. It pulled over 100,000. Probably the most watched tournament of 2015. I dont watch foreigner games. Im not even that interested in watching them play koreans. Not a single foreigner deserves the salary they earn as far as I am concerned. | ||
Poopi
France13022 Posts
On December 13 2015 04:31 BisuDagger wrote: Lol. Everyone is so bitter. Koreans aren't a requirement for great starcraft and fun games. How about showing relentless support for foreign players so sponsors will invest in them harder and players have the finances to live and breathe starcraft the Koreans do? Even if you dislike the decision by blizzard, boycotting dreamhack and iem etc. just means they will stop sponsoring the tournament and then you have nothing. I'm sure that'd be just a major victory for you social justice warriors out there. Foreigners won't ever catch up no matter what method you try :o, and yes sorry foreigners vs foreigners matches are way worse than foreigners vs koreans (fun game) or koreans vs koreans (great starcraft). | ||
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
On December 13 2015 04:31 BisuDagger wrote: How about showing relentless support for foreign players so sponsors will invest in them harder and players have the finances to live and breathe starcraft the Koreans do? Even if you dislike the decision by blizzard, boycotting dreamhack and iem etc. just means they will stop sponsoring the tournament and then you have nothing. I'm sure that'd be just a major victory for you social justice warriors out there. How about you support the players you want to support and I support the players I want to support? If this turns out to be true, you can have your nice little foreigner safehouse and the rest of us will actually watch the real entertainment, fair enough? | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19391 Posts
On December 13 2015 04:36 Elentos wrote: Why would I relentlessly support players I'm not actually interested in seeing play? For the sake of it? And you call out "social justice warriors"? What do you gain from boycotting dreamhack, except no more dreamhack SC2. Same for IEM. If that's not important to you then we have no argument. If it is, the only way you can keep them if the OP is true then is by taking an interest in foreign players. | ||
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HugoBallzak
700 Posts
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HsDLTitich
Italy831 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19391 Posts
On December 13 2015 04:48 showstealer1829 wrote: How about you support the players you want to support and I support the players I want to support? If this turns out to be true, you can have your nice little foreigner safehouse and the rest of us will actually watch the real entertainment, fair enough? I relentlessly supported brood war for years watching less skilled Koreans, and now the game is huge and those unskilled Koreans are among the top mixed in with the returning stars. My willingness to stick behind the game above all else won. | ||
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
On December 13 2015 04:49 HsDLTitich wrote: lol at people bringing up viewership... guess what, now that Korea is playing in Nation Wars they have 10k+ more viewers compared to the other days. Ogaming Inter had 10,5k before Germany vs Finland started. TakeTV lost 500 after that match. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On December 13 2015 04:49 BisuDagger wrote: What do you gain from boycotting dreamhack, except no more dreamhack SC2. Same for IEM. If that's not important to you then we have no argument. If it is, the only way you can keep them if the OP is true then is by taking an interest in foreign players. I'd gain 2 to 3 days of time I could spend on better things. I want them to have SC2, but it's much more exciting when those events are open and the player level increases. I won't boycott them, but I sure as hell won't start supporting players I don't care about for the sake of it. Which isn't to say I don't care about any foreign players - but it'll reduce the amount of time I spend watching every tournament. | ||
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Fliparoni
205 Posts
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BlackCompany
Germany8388 Posts
Really unhappy with these changes. Guess i am mostly going to watch korean leagues and some stuff like HSC unless i see some foreigners i like. This will probably turn out to be either a good change because it gives foreigners good chances at winning a tournament or kill the viewership for good. Edit: Obviously winning a foreigner only tournament is still impressive but not as impressive as doing it vs the best players | ||
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UrsusRex
United States85 Posts
Koreans bring the most viewers. Do they though and also do they bring in the most money? I know they don't on teamliquid but maybe they do on other websites I tried to find the numbers online but I couldn't. And if that is true does that mean anything? It could be that this is true because foreigners have stopped watching. SC2 is the least successful Esports scene losing to counter strike, LoL, Dota and if pretty soon even Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm will overtake Starcraft and Blizzard will have no reason not to abandon it. Korea can not sustain an entire Esport by itself the way a country as big as the U.S. can sustain football and baseball its just not feasible. Expanding foreign viewership is the only way the scene does not die Currently 20,000 people watching nationwars, a tournament I see pulling only 5,000 when its lucky. Blizzcon was 15 Koreans and 1 foreigner. It pulled over 100,000. Yeah but Blizzcon pulled in more viewers for its WoW and Diablo than it did for SC2 and as soon as the foreigner player got eliminated they lost 40,000 viewers, I remember it being discussed on teamliquid. There is a huge segment that has no interest in watching Korean players and they don't comment on here like you they just take their money and interest somewhere else. You offer no solution for remedying this your attitude will result in the further decline of SC2. Probably the most watched tournament of 2015. HAHAHAHAHAHA oh boy someones has never seen the viewership numbers for LoL, Counterstrike or Dota all of them have higher viewership numbers. There is a tournament right now that is not even the most prestigious for Dota that has over 120,000 viewers and its not even the finals its the loser bracket being streamed. SC2 can not compete with any of the other Esports scenes we have the least watched tournaments that is a fact. I dont watch foreigner games. Im not even that interested in watching them play koreans. Not a single foreigner deserves the salary they earn as far as I am concerned. It really depends on how much money they bring in not skill or who the outspoken minorities commenting on team Liquid prefer. If foreigners bring in more money and viewers they deserve more promotion and opportunities. You offer no compelling argument to the contrary. | ||
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Wrath
3175 Posts
On December 13 2015 04:50 BisuDagger wrote: I relentlessly supported brood war for years watching less skilled Koreans, and now the game is huge and those unskilled Koreans are among the top mixed in with the returning stars. My willingness to stick behind the game above all else won. I know no gives a damn about me but I just like to say that the game is horrible play wise with the new economy and mass gimmicks that was introduced to the game.  Unfortunately I cannot support it anymore, thus moved to BW, at least the game makes sense not rushed into herp derp. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12134 Posts
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
On December 13 2015 04:20 UrsusRex wrote: From a financial and viewership perspective foriegners make up the majority especially Americans who have no representation. From a business perspective this is a sound decision having a small scene primarily in Korea is not good business for a company as large as Blizzard. The real question is why hasn't Blizzard done this sooner. All the fanboys on here will squeal with outrage but they are an outspoken minority who do not make up most of the donors or fans in SCII esports their perspective is a poor basis for making decisions going forward. I have tried several times to get friends to watch SC2 only to have them show no interest because all of the players were Korean. Those people don't come on Liquipedia and whine they just ignore SC2 and find Esports scenes like LoL and Dota which do have many foreigners and diversity where they can actually root for the home team and have a chance of seeing them win. No non Korean can ever have that same experience in SC2. If this decision fails or backfires expect Blizzard to abandon Starcraft as an Esport because that is what makes sense financially. Agreed 100%. | ||
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HugoBallzak
700 Posts
On December 13 2015 05:07 UrsusRex wrote: "Koreans bring the most viewers." Do they though and also do they bring in the most money? I know they don't on teamliquid but maybe they do on other websites I tried to find the numbers online but I couldn't. And if that is true does that mean anything? It could be that this is true because foreigners have stopped watching. SC2 is the least successful Esports scene losing to counter strike, LoL, Dota and if pretty soon even Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm will overtake Starcraft and Blizzard will have no reason not to abandon it. Korea can not sustain an entire Esport by itself the way a country as big as the U.S. can sustain football and baseball its just not feasible. Expanding foreign viewership is the only way the scene does not die "Currently 20,000 people watching nationwars, a tournament I see pulling only 5,000 when its lucky. Blizzcon was 15 Koreans and 1 foreigner. It pulled over 100,000." Yeah but Blizzcon pulled in more viewers for its WoW and Diablo than it did for SC2 and as soon as the foreigner player got eliminated they lost 40,000 viewers, I remember it being discussed on teamliquid. There is a huge segment that has no interest in watching Korean players and they don't comment on here like you they just take their money and interest somewhere else. You offer no solution for remedying this your attitude will result in the further decline of SC2. "Probably the most watched tournament of 2015." HAHAHAHAHAHA oh boy someones has never seen the viewership numbers for LoL, Counterstrike or Dota all of them have higher viewership numbers. There is a tournament right now that is not even the most prestigious for Dota that has over 120,000 viewers and its not even the finals its the loser bracket being streamed. SC2 can not compete with any of the other Esports scenes we have the least watched tournaments that is a fact. "I dont watch foreigner games. Im not even that interested in watching them play koreans. Not a single foreigner deserves the salary they earn as far as I am concerned." It really depends on how much money they bring in not skill or who the outspoken minorities commenting on team Liquid prefer. If foreigners bring in more money and viewers they deserve more promotion and opportunities. You offer no compelling argument to the contrary. Are you dumb? Was I or anyone else talking about anything other than sc2? Blizzcon was probably the most watched sc2 tournament of 2015. Did I really need to specify or are you just pretending to be dense? I'd rather there be no starcraft 2 at DH or IEM or anywhere outside of Korea if its gonna be a bunch of ladder heroes duking it out to see who is less terrible. I know I wont bother watching when there is so much better high-level csgo going on. A game where europeans dominate and pull in the viewers because they are actually good, not because they are "CREATIVE" lol... | ||
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